!!!! THIS IS A MUCH BETTER IDEA!!

@clumsy-george

Your barking up the wrong tree. I’ve never supported separate PvE servers or a divided player base. That doesn’t stop me trying to understand the problem and considering things that may mitigate the cries for segregation. The more people that ask for pure PvE the more likely they’ll get what they want. Alternatively, we could all bury our heads in the (desert island) sand. 😄

@dadiodude
Hello Mr Dadiodude , i fear that, if you would had your way and Rare would once again fall on it's knees to please a minority of it's playerbase by granting them a PvE solely gamemode , you would be back on this Forum to complain how boring and dull Sea of Thieves would have become…

The name of the game tells it already: Sea of Thieves . Who would steal or threaten to steal yer treasures ? the skeletons? Nah, the ever needed " be on yer guard "feel would disspear...You could fall asleep on yer ship while having 120 chest shining in the sun or moon ,without having a care in the world...Oh sure , the Kraken would attack or it's niece , Mrs Meggie ,but you can beat both with the fingers in yer nose if you are a bit experienced…

i'm not at all a PvP player and nomatter what rig they are on, PC or Xbox , everybody scores multiple wins on my old carcass . But i don't mind that , because i like to interact with Friend and Foe , i don't like to go back to an NPC kind of interaction with prerendered answers to choose from…

This is and has to stay a Multiplayer Game , but us ,old experienced seasoned Seadogs have to keep our eyes open to new Sailors with their less expensive sails and hulls and offer a bit of help or guidance so New Pirates want to come back before being slaughtered without having one chance at all...But that...is harder to organize than a village fairground it seems...

@chronodusk The one thing that still makes a bounty system viable for me is one that players specifically have to leverage against other players. e.g. pirates don't gain bounties simply from doing Bad Things™, but rather, if you do a Bad Thing™ to a specific player, then that specific player may have an opportunity to leverage the bounty system against you for retribution, at cost to the player using the system. I think of it as not adding any artificial consequences and/or punishments except those that players deliver personally. It's just another avenue for players to administer retribution. The details of how the system would work is really what makes or breaks it, since there are a huge number of ways to completely ruin it

One of the major outstanding barriers to a bounty system is that which @NWO-Azcrack brought up: it would have to avoid exploitation, which is difficult. There are ideas out there that do this (or are at least thinking in the right direction), but it's still very difficult.

Ultimately, a bounty system or any other PvP-mitigating/influencing system isn't needed (PvP is perfectly fine as it is), however it's still certainly a potentially viable avenue that can be and should be explored. Making any potential 'bounty' system work would unavoidably require thinking outside the box because the usual cookie cutter "bounty when you sink a ship/kill a player" ideas have already been routinely shown to not work

And so I'm actually on topic for once: PvP is fine, it needs no changes. PvE Only/Passive Mode/etc will never happen and should never happen.

@nwo-azcrack Even worse, if you get a bounty because you sunk a ship, peaceful/passive crews would get punished for successfully defending themselves as the bounty attracts even more attackers.

@hisdarkestfear
The problem with bounties is that they can be exploited. Lets say i sink a new players ship, which lets them put a bounty on me right?

So what u gonna do when instead of sinkin you i just come and sail circles around you and annoy you until you get mad and fire on me. Now u have the bounty. And the ship in my alliance gets to come sink u and get gold.
Not so great now huh?

@hisdarkestfear said in PvP v PvE. Is a split inevitable?:

A monetary disadvantage to sinking is not a good solution, given the person being ambushed would also have to pay gold to stock-up. Rather, a bounty system offering a reward for hunting infamous pirates would have the intended effect, without hitting new players while they're low. =)

I can tell that your intentions are good, but there’s no need to punish people for acting in a certain way as long as they’re not being bad sports about it.

The thing about Sea of Thieves is that there is no advantage or disadvantage to acting a certain way over another. Adding a bounty system implies that it’s wrong in some way for me to rob another pirate, (which it is not wrong.)

The game is not supposed to deliver consequences for actions toward another player.

A monetary disadvantage to sinking is not a good solution, given the person being ambushed would also have to pay gold to stock-up. Rather, a bounty system offering a reward for hunting infamous pirates would have the intended effect, without hitting new players while they're low. =)

@nwo-azcrack said in PvP v PvE. Is a split inevitable?:

@wildbloodoz
My problem with that is say im chasing you to the outpost. You get there before me and dock your boat. Now i have to come board you or go and grab a keg just to sink you.

Keeping in mind that it's just an idea, so I had not considered all possible exploits... I can see how this can be exploited. If the docked crew somehow manage to kill the attacking crew, they can immediately undock and then have open fire on the attackers ship, who will be waiting to return from the ferry. Seems unfair to the attacking crew, now that I think about it.

Back to the sea...

@wildbloodoz
My problem with that is say im chasing you to the outpost. You get there before me and dock your boat. Now i have to come board you or go and grab a keg just to sink you. Instead of the usual im fillin ur ship with holes as my captain chases the guy usually tryin to turn in their most valuable piece of loot. Just kinda feel like it favors the guy with loot more.

A split is not inevitable. It's impossible. If it were to happen, we wouldn't be playing the same game anymore.

Safe havens are a bad idea, and so are retractable ladders - both have been discussed in the past numerous times already, as well as why they are bad ideas (some of which has already been repeated here by others).

Safe outposts will never happen. The devs are totally against this. Its a game breaking idea that can be exploited.

Instead of outpost safe havens... perhaps there could be a game mechanic which allows ships to be docked at an outpost. When docked, a ship can take no damage (edit: cannonball damage), nor can it fire its cannons. The cannons automatically point upwards to indicate you are in docked mode. A docked ship can still be damaged with a gunpowder barrel, or with environmental damage like a lightning strike.

Player damage will be possible, so you can still be killed and have your treasure stolen.

@xultanis-dragon
Wish i could upvote that post more than once. Well said

@dadiodude

You have some misconceived notions here.

First lets address a big one.

There is a belief among some of the players here that when they post anything about PvE servers or complaining about PvP players, they are met with hostility or aggression. This is false.

The responses they are receiving are simply pure, unfiltered, and blunt. They are from players who understand the core values of the game. They are also from players who once were for PvE servers but turned around after some kinda of inner realization about the game. They are also from players who are experienced and could be considered very well informed about the games mechanics. Unfortunately they are also filled with exhaustion. Exhaustion of having to continuously refute newer players uninformed and inexperienced view of the game.

The players that come here requesting PvE servers are narrow minded. They are completely fixated on an event that just happened, and are trying to fix the immediate issue THEY have with the game. Coming onto the forums with an idea that completely ignores the long term ramifications their idea will have to the game. Spouting the same ideas over and over again without any logical understanding of the gaming community or of human nature. They just make post, after post, after post, after post.

"But everyone is entitled to their opinion." - This is very true. Everyone can have an opinion and are entitled to have one. However just because they have an opinion doesn't mean that it has some sort of validity. Just having an opinion doesn't mean you should be treated as if you are right. Having an opinion doesn't automatically mean they should receive a persons respect, nor does it mean that we have to respond in ways that protects their emotions from disagreements.

Players need to realize that someone disagreeing with them doesn't mean they are being hostile. If you come here with a view or an idea you better be able to back it with some actual logic and not your feelings.

This is instead what we get -

"WAAAHHHHHH I got attacked and my feelings are hurt WAAAAHHHHH" - I know this sounds condescending but I'm not trying to be. This is honestly what it sounds like to me.

SIDE NOTE I made a mistake above. Not everyone who wants PvE servers is like this. 99% of them are though, but not all. There have been people on here that have argue'd for PvE with actual logic and understanding. Yes they had feelings invested in the debate but they didn't use their feelings as a bullet point. They instead argued logically about how players would react, how the community would possibly evolve. They stuck to the subject matter and put up an actual debate. Players like that receive our respect and understanding.

So no there is no "split" nor is it coming.

@wildbloodoz
Also i wanna mention that private servers are on the way. This has been confirmed already by Joel Neate. They are still in the stages of workin out how to do it tho, so its gonna be awhile. And they said they didnt want players farming gold so it looks like no progression is gonna happen on them.
Looks like they just wanna give players and streamers a place to create content

@wildbloodoz
Just playing. I have been gaming since the atari. Most games during that time didnt really have any rewards. Think of all the nintendo games where u beat the game in 30 mins. Or had 3 lives and that was it.

I dont feel like i need to be rewarded for playing. I have done my fair share of grinding in this game. And the day i decided i was just gonna log in and play around or pvp, or just hit sunken ships, changed my whole additude about this game.
Just playin is my reward. If i play for 3 hours and get nothin im ok. As long as i had fun doin it is all that matters.
Ima link u to my post. Your feedback is appreciated link text

@nwo-azcrack
Paid private servers would probably be the best alternative. I say 'paid' because I can't see them allowing people to do whatever they want, using up server space, unless they were charging those people. If it ever happens then I'm interested in how they will make it work

@nwo-azcrack said

Meh im used to not gainin anything from playing. I dont really need to be rewarded for playing. The game is the reward.

Just curious - what is "the game" to you, if you don't play for any reward?

@wildbloodoz
Meh im used to not gainin anything from playing. I dont really need to be rewarded for playing. The game is the reward.
Im against pve servers u could say but a private server with no progression or gold, just to play around on, im ok with that. I wouldnt use it unless i could spawn enemies and see what dumb stuff i could come up with

@nwo-azcrack said in PvP v PvE. Is a split inevitable?:

@wildbloodoz
Safe outposts will never happen. The devs are totally against this. Its a game breaking idea that can be exploited.

That's great news. Because it means they will never allow a PvE mode or Private Servers, which wouldn't break the game, but it would dilute the Adventure mode. That's how I see it.

I dont care about rep or loot so no comment on that

It is one of the big complaints I read (i.e. "spent 3 hours on a voyage, and lost it all to another crew etc). Spending that much time in a game and getting nothing for it, that just plain sucks.

@wildbloodoz
Safe outposts will never happen. The devs are totally against this. Its a game breaking idea that can be exploited.
I dont care about rep or loot so no comment on that

Sea of Thieves is designed to be a shared open world with PvP and PvE. Let's not ask for a mode which removes player interaction and threat of intervention. They are what make the game unique and interesting.

I think it would be better if Rare introduced certain measures to help protect pirates, without removing the ability to be a pirate, or be challenged by another crew. Some of the suggestions which have been made before might actually work, even if people are against them. There are two ideas I can get behind:

• Outposts to become safe havens

The open sea and the islands make up 98% of the world. Outposts are so insignificant that I don't think it would be game breaking if they were safe havens.

Social interaction at outposts might even improve if players were unable to kill one another or sink ships at an outpost. How this would work is beyond me. I have a couple of ideas.

I was vehemently against this idea. But it might not be such a bad thing. Having safe haven at an Outpost is a better alternative, imo, to having a mode which removed PvP altogether

• Rep level progress after finding treasure, killing a skeleton captain, or capturing animals, for those relevant voyages

Earning some rep progress for partially completing a voyage, might leave people feeling less frustrated if they then lost the loot to another crew. Successfully delivering the loot would give you more rep, and obviously the gold, but if you weren't able to hand it in, you wouldn't leave the game having accomplished nothing.

This would apply to voyages only, not world events. I have opposed this idea many times before, but it wouldn't break the game (I don't think) if it was allowed. Pirating treasure will still earn you a bigger slice of the pie.

Cargo runs would be an exception. This is because there is no real work to obtain the cargo, so you should not be rewarded any rep until you deliver the cargo.

When I win this game is perfect the way it is.

When I lose it’s trash and there needs to be a PVE only mode.

Funny how that happens

@dadiodude said in PvP v PvE. Is a split inevitable?:

@genuine-heather

I can only comment on what I witness on the forum. Like you and everybody else, I have no idea what people out in the big wide world think of this or anything else. But here, there’s a rift, like it or not.

I have no desire to “punish” any player group. However if risk and reward were balanced across different playing styles I believe it would help. In any event, a game in which you can mount an attack on a competitor without risking anything is pretty lame. It’s not even very good PvP is it.

Yeah sorry but this forum ironically is not a great source to feel the pulse of the community. Only basing yourself on one source doesn't help.

Going on the SoT subreddit you can find dozens of posts like the one below, with a lot more of people engaging in threads, voting on comments etc. Gives a much better idea of what people think.

Also, a lot more cheery over there, way more people that actually enjoy the game, and with a lot less whiners then over here.

@dadiodude said in PvP v PvE. Is a split inevitable?:

@hynieth

On the opening page of the forum there are nine threads on this very subject.

And yet you’re one of a small group that pounce quite aggressively on every thread and refuse to accept an alternative view. Everyone has an opinion and you must realise that yours carries no more weight than anyone else’s. Being narrow minded is a barrier to progress.

A small group opposing another small group of cheerleaders for this idea. As I said, basing yourself on this forum to suggest what is in demand and what is not by the community is foolish. No ideas carry more weight than the others, this goes both ways. On can develop said ideas and provide rebuttal, but generally it falls on deaf ears, or tired ones.

@wilbymagicbear
I would probably have to use my toes too!
But ya its not often. I know i could be more stategic in my pvp and watch and stalk players, but that seems boring. Not to mention you sink a guy and all i see is a seafart and castaway float to the surface. I usually put it in the shore and sail away