Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community

  • 7

    @grqk Why I am against a PvE Mode / Passive mode as many people suggest on these forums as it boils down to: a game mode that offers the same experience, rewards and game-play as the Adventure mode (minus the PvP (biggest challenge on the seas).

    Making a game mode that will and shall compete directly with the main (original) game mode is just a bad idea and punishes everyone that isn't 1) A pure PvE player or 2) A pure PvP player... in short the major majority of players. It makes us choose at the menu screen: Want to be friendly today or not? Pick accordingly, instead of play as you want, be it friendly, hostile, ninja, a mix of anything, etc. This is a shared world and lets keep it shared by promoting to play together instead of making a static choice at the menu screen. If anyone believes that a majority of players will risk their treasure in PvPvE mode without any reasons other than internal motivation.... really... why would they? Unless you are a stubborn pirate that refuses to take the easy route, there way more people that will use it in the 'friendly' or 'hostile' choice, eliminating the majority of 'mixed' encounters on the seas.

    For those that try to claim that the game is pure PvP already is just false, even in complains about PvP often you hear: After 2 or 3 hours of play... some "griefing" PvP Sweaty Try-Hard came by and took our loot with no effort. While they do not understand the principle of a shared world, we all have a say and vigilance, awareness, proper choices and getting better at the game in general will allow you to have a bigger say in the actions that happen when interacting with others.

    This is a shared world, you will encounter other pirates. It is all about awareness in this game, as this allows you to make your choices based on your preference of pirating. Therefore if you want to PvE only, with any skill and willingness can pick choice number one each time.

    First choice; the non-engaging option and choose to sail off, this might mean your plans need to adapt. Being flexible is key to a no-interaction experience.

    The second choice is to interact. Be it friendly, neutral or hostile. This carries a risk with it, as you are not the only one in a say in the story and there always bigger, better, bloodcrazed, etc. players out there. You would be surprised with the right approach how often a truce can be struck.

    The unwillingness to communicate is key. People claim they want friendly interactions and refuse to speak or explain the situation, hold grudges, shoot first out of fear and yet expect compassion, understanding and us to be friends. That isn't how open world PvPvE works... the safest option is remove the threat - Battle. Then when they communicate and the other is semi-friendly they demand an alliance... as if that means anything and isn't a liability. Get to know the people you are friendly with. Negotiate truces out of a strong position, do the basics right... the majority of times when I am called 'toxic', 'griefer' and even a hacker is usually when they are just flat out playing horrible. I base my interactions on the other crew, I am friendly most of the time and I PvE, but seriously some opportunities even I cannot let slide by... if you don't bother doing the basics of sailing properly, basics of awareness, etc. and then leave a bunch of treasure for the grabs or a skeleton keg in the bottom of your ship and me unattended.... I am going to use that to my advantage. Even friendly people tend to be opportunists... presents are always nice.

    Learning a game is part of playing the game... yes this game has little tutorial, as equals you can do what I can. Yet... there a lot of things to learn and isn't an excuse for a PvE mode. (I am not against more tutorial or anything, knowledge is power after all, but a PvE mode is not a tutorial)

    The game offers the tool already to be very passive, you can avoid 95% of all player interaction if you are decent (not good, just decent). Many play for hours before meeting or being forced in a situation with other people and yet the focus is: They stole my 'progress' ... which btw is just there to give you a goal during your session, in the end we don't gain benefits from it other than being able to look more fancy.

    This is a Game, your pirate is not always going to win. In games we win and lose, they are challenges that are given to us and for crying out loud in a PvP enabled multiplayer the biggest challenges are the other people. The entitlement of people: I put in effort in a game and therefore I must be given my shiny pixels is mindboggling, for an older gamer as myself. I remember the days where games were really brutal - no tutorials, no youtube guides, buy a magazine, read the booklet that came with the game and figure it out. Do I like losing no, do I get annoyed, frustrated etc. yes, mainly with myself though. I get the feeling, but it is part of games and especially games with PvP. Learn, improve, adapt and overcome that is a part of games and even then there's always someone that is better.

    If we want a PvE mode, make it like the Arena: Something new, a multi-crew challenge with different puzzles, sailing challenges against elements while taking on sea creatures, etc. Stories that in scope and difficulty would be nearly impossible to achieve in the Adventure mode, like 5 crew challenges (with the option to fill up all of them with your friends for all I matter) or take it on in a closed 1 crew for ultra hard mode.

  • 2

    @cotu42
    IM SORRY IM SWEATY OK?!?!?!?
    I CANT HELP IT!

    All jokes aside i feel like 100% of all player encounters are avoidable. My capatain and i have both worked 2 weeks strait with 1 day off. So i have been sailing solo a little lately. I have managed to avoid everyone on the server just by being aware at all times. Unless someone gets server merged right next to you, which i have yet to see.

  • 3

    @nwo-azcrack said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    @cotu42
    IM SORRY IM SWEATY OK?!?!?!?
    I CANT HELP IT!

    I am stubborn and will keep coming back till you sink my ship... I cannot help it! NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER! Arrgghh... hello ferry man.

    All jokes aside i feel like 100% of all player encounters are avoidable. My capatain and i have both worked 2 weeks strait with 1 day off. So i have been sailing solo a little lately. I have managed to avoid everyone on the server just by being aware at all times. Unless someone gets server merged right next to you, which i have yet to see.

    100% is theory more than practice, there is always some crew if you play long enough that will bump into you, they make some amazing play or will just chase you till the end of the world.

    Additionally you don't play perfect all the time, at some point you might rush, not check the horizon after a death - etc. cause those damn skeletons are being a pain in the pegleg and after 2 hours of not seeing a single soul... that is the moment when you notice a ship...and ooh that is close.... how did they get so close... gogogogo back to my ship... which is where proper parking comes in.

  • 3

    @cotu42
    Ya ur right. 95% is more realistic.
    I almost got caught by a brig rockin the reapers flag the other night. Got to comfortable and next thing i know they were b-linin strait for me. Sailed into the wind. Jumped off with a keg and gave em the buisness. When i respawned i seen they took the flag down and were headin the opposite way. Almost got caught slippin

  • 3

    @cotu42 said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    @grqk Why I am against a PvE Mode / Passive mode as many people suggest on these forums as it boils down to: a game mode that offers the same experience, rewards and game-play as the Adventure mode (minus the PvP (biggest challenge on the seas).

    To be fair, pretty much every forum member who's argued for PvE in this thread have said that that isn't what they want.

    I think the idea of Adventure mode with the PvP turned off was shelved a long time ago.

  • 3

    Knowing what I know as the vision set out for with this game, and considering both sides of the argument of wanting some pve only mode. I could only suggest and condone a PVE Only Training Island with a short radius of water and the Shroud around it and maybe an NPC will show you how to raise your sails and catch wind, dig with a shovel, eat a banana and turn in an item. The NPC could also inform you of the dangers you'll encounter once you leave the pve only training island for the adventure or arena modes. This is the only thing PVE Only that makes sense to me that doesn't change core concepts of the game.

  • 2

    Ok, I've scrapped the essay post idea. I'm sure many of you will be glad to hear that lol. However, I'm not abandoning my stance on PVE nor am I done fighting for it. I would still like to post each individual change or addition I believe would work for the game. Would y'all prefer that I do that so that we can nitpick each stupid little idea of mine until we somewhat agree whether it could or couldn't work? Maybe a cumulative essay could come from a collection of all of our agreed-upon ideas? Maybe Rare doesn't care at all and will neither read nor comment on any of these, so our labor is meaningless?

    Anyways, would ya'll rather do that so y'all can tear me apart in a more organized, yet spread out manner?

  • 3

    @grqk
    Ahhhhh man u givin up on the essay after all i typed?

    You might as well just come with it here. Lets here what ideas u got. U already got this post on page 1 so the stage is set.

  • 1

    @NWO-Azcrack
    Idk, I'm still debating it in my head.
    I think I could garner more critical attention if I post each point as a topic, but idk. At that point it sounds like I'm a child begging for attention, so maybe I'll post here. Honestly the worst part of my argument is that I don't know the current player base numbers. I know that 2 million new players played for the first time since April. I just want to know how many new players stuck with the game. How many players would have stuck with it if PVE mode was an option? I think Rare needs to hold polls for their players in-game on the topic. For all I know, I may be in the very small minority. But if a decent number (say, 10-15%+) of the player base would like to play a PVE mode without hindering Adventure or Arena, shouldn't they be able to?

    It's a lot to think about, and ultimately my argument means absolutely nothing if very few people actually want it.

    Anyway, I'm about to go to sleep so I probably won't post either way til 16 hours or so from now. Just let me know what y'all think.

  • 7

    @grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    ...... Just let me know what y'all think.

    I think you're wasting your time.

    Play the game and have fun... Or don't.

  • 15

    @grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    Ok, I've scrapped the essay post idea. I'm sure many of you will be glad to hear that lol. However, I'm not abandoning my stance on PVE nor am I done fighting for it. I would still like to post each individual change or addition I believe would work for the game. Would y'all prefer that I do that so that we can nitpick each stupid little idea of mine until we somewhat agree whether it could or couldn't work? Maybe a cumulative essay could come from a collection of all of our agreed-upon ideas? Maybe Rare doesn't care at all and will neither read nor comment on any of these, so our labor is meaningless?

    Anyways, would ya'll rather do that so y'all can tear me apart in a more organized, yet spread out manner?

    Dude share your ideas. If you have them share them. No one is telling you not to do that. What we are suggesting is that you take time to think about your ideas. Are you suggesting your ideas to actually make the game better for "EVERYONE" or are you making an idea because your feelings got riled up??

    Lets play out a scenario -

    You post an idea with your emotions riled high.

    You believe your idea to be completely awesome and awe inspiring.

    You ready your speech to be accepted as a Rare developer as you wait for the thunderous applause you believe you are about to receive.

    Except what you receive is the complete opposite of thunderous applause. What you are receiving is far worse. Criticism. LOTS OF IT.

    Players more experienced and well versed in the game tell you that what happened to you was your fault. Learn from it, get better, and keep trying.

    You now with egg on your face go on the attack. Obviously the ones who disagree with you know nothing about anything. They are bullies and evil evil players.

    So now you lash out. In response, the community tired of this type of behavior waste no time tearing your argument apart.

    Surprised by the fervor of the push back, you pigeon hole yourself. What do you do? Do you admit you were mistaken? NO you do the 'Murica approach - "Keep doing the wrong thing till its right!!"

    Arguments devolve into "NUH UH" - "UH HUH". At this juncture because the situation has escalated, the mods hearing the noise above climb out from under their bridge and start throwing out warnings left and right. @Musicmee is getting carpal tunnel from all the warnings and ban hammers. He becomes a spokes person in an infomercial for a new wrist band that helps with carpal tunnel.

    At this point 2 things happen -

    Either another 3 threads with the same hurt feelings and the same idea will take over as the new king of the hill thread.

    OR

    The thread gets locked........AND still gets replaced by the 3 new threads of the same exact everything.


    All this because of emotions.

    Broski share your idea but take a moment to think about it.

    1. Is my idea actually good or am I just riled up?
    2. What are the short term ramifications?
    3. What are the long term ramifications?
    4. What will human nature do?
    5. What are the pro's and con's?
    6. Can it be exploited? Is the level of exploit acceptable?
    7. Use logic, not your feelings.

    You'd be surprised how genuinely we want you to do better at the game. So when you receive negative feedback, before thinking we are being hostile towards you, read what we are saying and decide it if make sense. Do you have enough experience in THIS game to make a valid argument?

    Look, post your idea.

    I'm telling your right now though, if your idea was to create a PvE server where you have a bounty system to supplement the PvP you are going in a very bad direction. We already took that apart as well.

    Bounty systems can't be implemented unfortunately. Well I shouldn't say CAN'T, more like there isn't a game world where its workable. Its too exploitable and does nothing.

    Again we honestly want you to do well in this game.

    Good luck with your idea.

    SIDE NOTE When I say "Do you have enough experience in THIS game" I meant it as in don't compare this game with other games. Sea of Thieves is its own new game.

  • 5

    @xultanis-dragon
    Nice post. Im dyin laugin at the @musicmee part

  • 4

    @grqk
    Like @Xultanis-Dragon said post it man.
    Get some sleep and come on back and change my mind. If u gotta make assumptions make them. If its a good idea then the number of players wont matter.
    Only 24 players to a server anyway

  • 5

    @grqk
    Post what you got and let it all out to bare. We have no idea of what you are envisioning.
    @Xultanis-Dragon done a spit take on the @Musicmee comment as well.

  • 5

    @va-ca-hombre said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    @inboundbomb said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    I still don't know why your name is a bad word.

    Cause of my bad reputation and explicit attitude!

    I see Dan I upvote. I'm just saddened that I can't upvote twice!

  • 7

    @inboundbomb @NWO-Azcrack @Xultanis-Dragon

    You guys! Hehehehe. I wondered what all the mentions were for...

  • 5

    @musicmee said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:

    @inboundbomb @NWO-Azcrack @Xultanis-Dragon

    You guys! Hehehehe. I wondered what all the mentions were for...

    Lol. I had to dry my blueprints that I spit upon thanks to @Xultanis-Dragon comments.

  • 8

    @grqk
    Mr Grqk, i wonder how your gametag needs to be pronounced . i have a bit lack of time to read all the already 120 answers you have on yer Topic ,but i would like to tell you why Sea Of Thieves is a PvEPvP game.

    There is a sad evolution going on in Multiplayer Games. Most people crawl under the wings of clans or fleets to be certain to find likewise thinking people...Random Multiplayer lobbies are overrun by silence or verbal bickering but hardly any Friendliness anymore...Rare , on the other hand , with their small number of 200, saw that the mentality of Multiplayer games are getting down.

    Multiplayer Games have also a bad reputation and many young people are talked into a low selfesteem because players rate eachother on their abilities , rankings and Talent...Certaintly younger Players have a lot of value to all kind of stats they have earned in games , while others who aren't lightningfast are verbally slaugthered or evaded because they are " bad " players , losers ,noobs or whatever stamp they place on these kind of players , young or old…

    Rare made a game in which , even the slowest poke around still could fullfill an important role. Ever been on a random Galleon where 4 Pirates solely want to shoot cannons without repairing or steering the ship? How long did it took before you sank? Right , not that long hey?

    Rare made this game to reteach people to speak , try to run a ship by being silent ...How long did it took before you sank once again? Not long ,hey?.
    The same can be said of " enemy " encounters . This Very Forum is filled to the collar of it's shirt with stories of all kinds and endings when encountering the "enemy"...Some are told about immediate war, some are written about betrayal , and some are written about the Blessing of meeting new , Frienly beings that later grew out to become HeartsFriends…
    Rare is ,while we are playing and goofing , teaching us to reach out and speak to others .Sure , some converastions would make a Priests' ear bleed but there are hundreds of recounters that can tell you they had Great interactions , there is even sportmanship to be found amongst Pirates …
    So the main goal ,to make people talk again and cooperate has succeeded and this would not happen in the same way if Rare would created Sea of Thieves as a solely PvE experience…

    If you think i wrote this down in order to defend PvP, because i'm a snapshot ,than please think twice , i'm more of a crackpot than a crackshot and i don't like statistic driven PvP games because i always end up first...if...you turn the leaderboard upside down ,that is...

    i hope that Rare never steps away from the PvEPvp Path, because this game learns you about the world ...it isn't all sunshine ( * Oi, dufus , don't add me in yer "wisdom" , moron) and rainbows , just like in real life you can be attacked for you being you but this game teaches you some resistance towards that kind of ignorance…

    You can shelter your child from the outworld , try to avoid it to make contact with a "big bad world " but when you die , your child will , unprepared ,become chewed upon in that world ...So it's better to slowly make them acqauint with a world that isn't , and never will be , perfect.

  • 9

    @grqk Just post your idea. This is not a matter of approaching us with it in a specific way. We are not children that need to be managed. You are either confident enough to share it or not. If it is a good idea, it will withstand scrutiny. Also, the strength of your proposal is independent of player stats. The team at Rare are not children either and they can evaluate your proposal against whatever data they have about the player base. They are the ones you really need to convince. You asked us to share our reasons in one place for your review so you could reveal the solution to everyone’s desires. Many of us did rehash our concerns about PvE servers through several pages. It is your turn.

  • 5

    Rare has given players a lesson:
    It doesn't matter if you are the nicest person, with nothing of value, others will still attack you for their pleasure.

    This is true in game and in real life.
    Remember, it isn't just some fake AI trying to kill you, it is people.

    I hope you try to defend yourself in both instances, because PVE servers will only preserve the least important life, your pirate's.

    To me, if even one person realizes human nature from this and is more careful IRL, it is worth every virtual gold piece lost.

  • 5

    @dyfrin

    I find trying to derive life lessons from video games to be a slippery slope into ridiculousness.

    You can learn things about life and people from a lot of things.... but it IS still a cartoon pirate game.

    Let's not get too philosophical here.

  • 5

    Personally a PvE mode is a terrible idea in my opinion, supposing if it happened it would just create more complaints than actually solve this one.

    I think this because you can't really reward players well at all for running zero risk, the rewards would have to be zero or massively nerfed to the point they are practically meaningless as one of the trade off's in my opinion.

  • 10

    Not loving all the drama. If you have a good (or bad) idea, post it. Please and thank you. Then we can discuss the idea, rather than discussing the discussion about discussing an idea. Ugh.

  • 2

    How is your little experiment in asking immature, subjective, irrational, venomous and opinionated people going?

    Let me know when you publish your mini-essay. I'm actually looking forward to hearing your conclusion.

  • 5

    @ViperishEmu2992 Please tone it down there on the personal attacks, let's respect our fellow pirate.

  • 1

    Aaaaaaannnd there's @genuine-heather 's trademark attitude =p

    Alright, this particular topic was created only to get unique PVE thoughts from people, nothing more, nothing less. Honestly didnt want it to turn out as dramatic and cryptic as it does but I was asked a lot of questions about my essay and personally recieved criticism when I ONLY wanted criticism for the IDEA of a PVE mode. Shouldn't have expected less from an online forum, but also my fault for caving in to the drama and replying to the unwanted posts, I suppose.

    Anyway, thanks to the people who contributed in a helpful manner. I'm now done with the drama and drawn out replies. Next post you see from me will be as a topic in the form of an essay (yes, I changed my mind.....again...) Hopefully done within a week.

  • 1

    You create PVE server you create a safe zone for kids where they can't be pushed and will not cry and thus never learn nor grow! Moreover they would be in danger of growing god complex in their little bubble where noone can challenges them.

    It's unhealthy in every possible way.

  • 1

    Anyone know if it's possible to lock this thread so that no more replies can be added? Do I have to ask a mod to do that?

  • 5

    @grqk
    Just call the @Deckhands

  • 9

    @grqk Done.

Locked