PvP vs PvE

  • 7

    Now, listen, there have been LOTS of posts of 'There needs to be a PvE gamemode!' No, there should not. If there was, people could go there to grind out all of their factions without risk of anything happening. Now, if you couldn't gain rep in this PvE gamemode, and it was just for let's say, doing tall tales, or doing the story missions that pop up from time to time, that would be fine. But a purely PvE mode with rep, absolutely not. Now over to the PvP players side, I already made a post on this, but if you are blaming PvP players for attacking you, think it over first, were they after you for something? Did they see you complete something, and figure you have loot onboard? Are they spawn camping? Etc, etc. A PvE gamemode will most likely not be a thing, and if it is, it will not allow you to gain rep. That is all, fair winds, high tides, and burning broadsides!

  • 5

    @ToastySmooth100

    The weakest argument against PvE Servers is progression, when progression is horizontal and about cosmetics only.
    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.
    Your progress in SoT means nothing to me and my progress to A10 cannot be devalued by someone getting easier to it, because that would need me to compare myself to others.
    But i dont compare myself to others that much. And for sure not in a videogame!

    The only valuable argument against PvE Servers is that it will or can contradict the games design about the uncertainty about other players on the horizon.
    If the pve players play on pve Servers there is not that much uncertainty about other players left, because they are all hostile then.

    On the other side you can say and hope that if you have PvE sessions (or at best private sessions to setup as you like, also for premade PvP Settings) that a lot of players bored out on pve only and like the uncertainty about other players and the threat of another sail on the horizon.

    Your argument is weak as hell, sorry.

    Btw it is already easier to get to PL A10.
    There were no Megs, Skaleones, Rum Runner and Double Xp & Reputation Events.
    No Devils Roar with double worth loot.
    Not a nerfed Version of Devils Roar, no rowboat to save your loot when sunk, not that many Forts to farm and also every cosmetic was more expensive and loot less worth.

  • 3

    @bugaboo-bill said in PvP vs PvE:

    @ToastySmooth100

    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.

    LOL. Pixel Envy for those with small Pixels? I'm gonna have to coin your "jealousy about pixels" for future use. Thnx @Bugaboo-Bill !

  • 2

    Who is to say what a PvE-only/Private Server mode will look like? Maybe it's as different from Adventure Mode as Arena Mode is? Maybe it has decreased Loot value? Or double deadly Megs, Skellies and Krakens. Maybe it has totally different cosmetics? Maybe it's harder than Adventure? The only thing that is "for sure" is that it would not have PvP.

    There really is only one good argument against a third game mode and that is that it wouldn't be worth Rare's time/money investment. In other words; SoT would get a larger Player Base by having that time and money invested in other ways. That's a business decision that only Rare has the information to answer. But there is certainly a lot of demand for a PvE mode. And where there's a market.... someone will do it. Look at the wild success of the World War Z game. It only exists because Valve were too lazy/stupid/rich to make L4D3. Pretty dumb move by Valve (financially speaking).

  • 5

    As I (and others) have stated before:
    The biggest danger with a PvE mode is ease of use. If you apply a Solo or Private mode (PvE) people will use it. If someone gets a choise of Playing the game alone and with others most people will choose alone. The number of people who solo sloop is proof of this (sadly because this game was built on playing with others)
    People might not believe this but I started out hating PvP too. My discord even made a meme (my pirate with the text I just want to play pirate!)
    Were I given the choise I'd have chosen Solo mode and Gone sloop and gotten tired with the game within a month. In stead I'm still playing this game because it forced me out of several comfort zones. It asked me to find a crew (which I did) and to defend myself in PvP and later even Initiate PvP.
    I started out hating it and losing a bunch and I'm now only rarely sunk and I revel in it. (mind you I'm not one of those chase you for hours people just an opportunistic pirate who will go for forts and defend them tooth and claw).

    I take Elite dangerous as an Example. No one besides the Griefers (actual griefers there) play Elite dangerous in open. If you try it you'll get blased in seconds and you'll go Solo or Private in no time. (and why wouldn't you) Frontier Development are trying hard to get people into open play. Rare doesn't have to because they don't give us the choise, I applaud this.

  • 0

    @hynieth said in PvP vs PvE:

    As I (and others) have stated before:
    The biggest danger with a PvE mode is ease of use. If you apply a Solo or Private mode (PvE) people will use it. If someone gets a choise of Playing the game alone and with others most people will choose alone. The number of people who solo sloop is proof of this (sadly because this game was built on playing with others)
    People might not believe this but I started out hating PvP too. My discord even made a meme (my pirate with the text I just want to play pirate!)
    Were I given the choise I'd have chosen Solo mode and Gone sloop and gotten tired with the game within a month. In stead I'm still playing this game because it forced me out of several comfort zones. It asked me to find a crew (which I did) and to defend myself in PvP and later even Initiate PvP.
    I started out hating it and losing a bunch and I'm now only rarely sunk and I revel in it. (mind you I'm not one of those chase you for hours people just an opportunistic pirate who will go for forts and defend them tooth and claw).

    I take Elite dangerous as an Example. No one besides the Griefers (actual griefers there) play Elite dangerous in open. If you try it you'll get blased in seconds and you'll go Solo or Private in no time. (and why wouldn't you) Frontier Development are trying hard to get people into open play. Rare doesn't have to because they don't give us the choise, I applaud this.

    I agree with your premise but you have to take into account that we don't know what a PvE-only mode would look like. Maybe it would be as different from Adventure Mode as Arena Mode is?

    I understand that some players think that adding a PvE mode that was exactly like Adventure without PvP-ers would make progression too "easy".

    But firstly, why should they care how others enjoy this game? And secondly, it wouldn't be hard to balance the rewards/danger ratio. Rare already did this in the Devil's Roar. More danger = more money. Less danger = less money.

  • 3

    @viperishemu2992 I think we agreed on this before but yeah a seperate mode where you can select a story or something and just play a scenario would be great. More story driven content etc.
    The reason Arena works for me is that it's in no way a replacement for adventure mode. It should never be, a PvE mode should do the same, be something unique within the gameplay mechanics of the game.

    We care how others enjoy the game because of the balance it causes.
    As I've said before if given the choise people will often go for the easier one. Making it more annoying for vetran players.
    If you make a Mode called PvE for example and make it the same as the adventure mode but with no PvP new people would for sure choose that unless they WANT PvP and want to partake in it. We vetran players know the joy of the game as it is now but if people stop playing while a steady stream of new players comes in the balance will shift and those who still play will see a dramatic increase in PvP activity and I don't mean like how I sail past a ship to see if he's got something on board but the type of relentlessly chasing crew that if killed just respawns and tries again and again.

    Sure as there is no PvE mode this is all speculation. But with games like Elite Dangerous being in the same boat as to speak we have examples of how this can play out if handled poorly.

  • 1

    @hynieth Yeah, we have had this discussion and we are pretty much on one line philosophically (even if we are on other sides of the discussion).

    I don't like playing Arena that much (I pop in occasionally) but I am also happy that it is in no way a replacement for Adventure Mode.

    Personally I would prefer the same to be true of any PvE Mode that Rare may ever make.

    I don't expect that I would be any more interested in playing a PvE mode that I am in Arena. My biggest concern is that there is definitely a demand for some kind of Private Mode and that the player base will suffer if that demand isn't met. A bigger player base benefits us all, no matter which Mode they are playing.

  • 4

    @viperishemu2992 Don't worry about the playerbase. Rare and Microsoft shouldn't either.
    If there's ever proof of games being made with passion winning out on games being made for money I think World of Warcraft is the biggest proof you could get.
    Up untill and even including Wrath of the Lich king the game was great. Then the fire nation attacked Blizzard merged with Activision introducing corporate greed into the mix and we got Store bought mounts and expansions that were getting worse and worse, and a lot more focussed on skinner box mechanics to keep people playing (and thus paying). It's a really clear and cut case of going for the money making a worse product. If Blizzard had kept pouring passion into the game it might have even now still be a great game.

    Whenever people talk about changing a game to earn more money my mind goes to all the games that have been ruined by corporate greed. I also don't think they'd let Microsoft infulence them into changing the game to something they don't want. They have already learned from their mistake in making StarFox Adventures.

  • 0

    @hynieth Perhaps I am more worried than I should be. It's impossible to judge exactly the "health" of the SoT without access to the numbers.

    I just see a "demand" and the advantages of "supplying" that demand. I don't lend much credence to most of the arguments against a PvE mode that I read on this forum. As long as a Third Mode is done right it can only add to the enjoyment and the player base. Arena is a good example of this.

    While I may be sceptical about the "health" of the SoT I have no doubt that Rare are working on a "Project of Love". This only gives me more confidence that any Third Mode they may add someday would be done right. With the obligatory amount of bugs and glitches at launch :)

  • 3

    @viperishemu2992 I mean I would be down for a private mode where you and a bunch of people could start multiple ships up Maybe get like 24 of my friends and have a big 3 o. 3 galleon fight. Private mode wouldnt have any rep gain or gold gain obviously it would also be useful as a training tool for anyone who needed practice for things like arena.

  • 1

    @blatantwalk4260
    This is what I think private modes should be like. No progression so people are enticed to play on adventure, but it's still there for events and practicing.

  • 1

    @hynieth
    I mean, rare does want to add a private mode at some point. But it sounds like they will have no progression in it so adventure isn't pure pvp. I think they'd be cool for events and similar things, and I'm glad rare wants to stay away from progression in them.

  • 2

    @toastysmooth100 said

    PvP vs PvE

    Why? Why would you do this?

  • 2

    @blazedrake100 plus like I said it would be a good tool for practice and even to teach new players looking for crews.

  • 1

    @viperishemu2992 said in PvP vs PvE:

    @bugaboo-bill said in PvP vs PvE:

    @ToastySmooth100

    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.

    LOL. Pixel Envy for those with small Pixels? I'm gonna have to coin your "jealousy about pixels" for future use. Thnx @Bugaboo-Bill !

    Bugaboo is a nice guy and a sensible one! We have become friends through arguing on the forums and often his comments on posts are the only comment which should be read but it’s not - and honestly I get heated and stupid so having a guy who supports the current PVPVE set up but understands and supports PVE cus he knows the real reasons for it, you could say I just come on here to argue since most just annoy me with there “I’m great at killing people with disadvantage - don’t take away my easy kills I need gratification for my sanity” cus at the end of the day people like bill are the actual argument supporting PVE with sense and reason :) and yeah I love reading some of the comments on here and normally one of the best! @Bugaboo-Bill

  • 0

    @viperishemu2992 said in PvP vs PvE:

    Who is to say what a PvE-only/Private Server mode will look like? Maybe it's as different from Adventure Mode as Arena Mode is? Maybe it has decreased Loot value? Or double deadly Megs, Skellies and Krakens. Maybe it has totally different cosmetics? Maybe it's harder than Adventure? The only thing that is "for sure" is that it would not have PvP.

    There really is only one good argument against a third game mode and that is that it wouldn't be worth Rare's time/money investment. In other words; SoT would get a larger Player Base by having that time and money invested in other ways. That's a business decision that only Rare has the information to answer. But there is certainly a lot of demand for a PvE mode. And where there's a market.... someone will do it. Look at the wild success of the World War Z game. It only exists because Valve were too lazy/stupid/rich to make L4D3. Pretty dumb move by Valve (financially speaking).

    Subscription fee for a PVE server?!
    Soo surely PVE servers is a must then :)

  • 0

    @hynieth said in PvP vs PvE:

    @viperishemu2992 I think we agreed on this before but yeah a seperate mode where you can select a story or something and just play a scenario would be great. More story driven content etc.
    The reason Arena works for me is that it's in no way a replacement for adventure mode. It should never be, a PvE mode should do the same, be something unique within the gameplay mechanics of the game.

    We care how others enjoy the game because of the balance it causes.
    As I've said before if given the choise people will often go for the easier one. Making it more annoying for vetran players.
    If you make a Mode called PvE for example and make it the same as the adventure mode but with no PvP new people would for sure choose that unless they WANT PvP and want to partake in it. We vetran players know the joy of the game as it is now but if people stop playing while a steady stream of new players comes in the balance will shift and those who still play will see a dramatic increase in PvP activity and I don't mean like how I sail past a ship to see if he's got something on board but the type of relentlessly chasing crew that if killed just respawns and tries again and again.

    Sure as there is no PvE mode this is all speculation. But with games like Elite Dangerous being in the same boat as to speak we have examples of how this can play out if handled poorly.

    It sounds to me all the veteran players are just scared to PvP other veteran crews lool

  • 3

    @bugaboo-bill said in PvP vs PvE:

    @ToastySmooth100

    The weakest argument against PvE Servers is progression, when progression is horizontal and about cosmetics only.
    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.
    Your progress in SoT means nothing to me and my progress to A10 cannot be devalued by someone getting easier to it, because that would need me to compare myself to others.
    But i dont compare myself to others that much. And for sure not in a videogame!

    The only valuable argument against PvE Servers is that it will or can contradict the games design about the uncertainty about other players on the horizon.
    If the pve players play on pve Servers there is not that much uncertainty about other players left, because they are all hostile then.

    On the other side you can say and hope that if you have PvE sessions (or at best private sessions to setup as you like, also for premade PvP Settings) that a lot of players bored out on pve only and like the uncertainty about other players and the threat of another sail on the horizon.

    Your argument is weak as hell, sorry.

    Btw it is already easier to get to PL A10.
    There were no Megs, Skaleones, Rum Runner and Double Xp & Reputation Events.
    No Devils Roar with double worth loot.
    Not a nerfed Version of Devils Roar, no rowboat to save your loot when sunk, not that many Forts to farm and also every cosmetic was more expensive and loot less worth.

    Actually horizontal progression is more in favor of not allowing people to choose for a PVE progression system. Like it or not people play for progress and provide us a mode to achieve it with less risks is something many would use and head to the PvP ones for action. Therefore changing the dynamics of the seas and messing with a very specific balance what forms our experiences as a community.

  • 0

    @viperishemu2992 said in PvP vs PvE:

    @hynieth Perhaps I am more worried than I should be. It's impossible to judge exactly the "health" of the SoT without access to the numbers.

    I just see a "demand" and the advantages of "supplying" that demand. I don't lend much credence to most of the arguments against a PvE mode that I read on this forum. As long as a Third Mode is done right it can only add to the enjoyment and the player base. Arena is a good example of this.

    While I may be sceptical about the "health" of the SoT I have no doubt that Rare are working on a "Project of Love". This only gives me more confidence that any Third Mode they may add someday would be done right. With the obligatory amount of bugs and glitches at launch :)

    Well said :)

  • 0

    @cotu42 said in PvP vs PvE:

    @bugaboo-bill said in PvP vs PvE:

    @ToastySmooth100

    The weakest argument against PvE Servers is progression, when progression is horizontal and about cosmetics only.
    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.
    Your progress in SoT means nothing to me and my progress to A10 cannot be devalued by someone getting easier to it, because that would need me to compare myself to others.
    But i dont compare myself to others that much. And for sure not in a videogame!

    The only valuable argument against PvE Servers is that it will or can contradict the games design about the uncertainty about other players on the horizon.
    If the pve players play on pve Servers there is not that much uncertainty about other players left, because they are all hostile then.

    On the other side you can say and hope that if you have PvE sessions (or at best private sessions to setup as you like, also for premade PvP Settings) that a lot of players bored out on pve only and like the uncertainty about other players and the threat of another sail on the horizon.

    Your argument is weak as hell, sorry.

    Btw it is already easier to get to PL A10.
    There were no Megs, Skaleones, Rum Runner and Double Xp & Reputation Events.
    No Devils Roar with double worth loot.
    Not a nerfed Version of Devils Roar, no rowboat to save your loot when sunk, not that many Forts to farm and also every cosmetic was more expensive and loot less worth.

    Actually horizontal progression is more in favor of not allowing people to choose for a PVE progression system. Like it or not people play for progress and provide us a mode to achieve it with less risks is something many would use and head to the PvP ones for action. Therefore changing the dynamics of the seas and messing with a very specific balance what forms our experiences as a community.

    Damn! can I get your balance of experiences! I mean i seem to be playing on the adventure mode after they have made a PVE mode :/

  • 3

    @cotu42 said in PvP vs PvE:

    Like it or not people play for progress

    Some.

    Some people play for progress.

    I would also be willing to accept "most people".

  • 0

    Like it or not people play for progress

    Some.

    Some people play for progress.

    I would also be willing to accept "most people".

    I play for progress and want PVE mode to be literally same set up but harder - like people said above - balance out the modes - no player threat then the AI needs to replace it! Soon you would have two servers of adventure with PIRATE LEGENDS on the PVE servers and PIRATE LORDS on the PVP server

    See what I did there ;)

    No one on here supporting PVP wants a fair fight they all argue they need PVE feeders to make it good for them cus if they had only veterans then it would become too “hostile” lool we arnt playing the same game are we when has it ever been friendly hahaha

  • 3

    @itskingbertie said in PvP vs PvE:

    @cotu42 said in PvP vs PvE:

    @bugaboo-bill said in PvP vs PvE:

    @ToastySmooth100

    The weakest argument against PvE Servers is progression, when progression is horizontal and about cosmetics only.
    Really that's just jealousy about pixels.
    Your progress in SoT means nothing to me and my progress to A10 cannot be devalued by someone getting easier to it, because that would need me to compare myself to others.
    But i dont compare myself to others that much. And for sure not in a videogame!

    The only valuable argument against PvE Servers is that it will or can contradict the games design about the uncertainty about other players on the horizon.
    If the pve players play on pve Servers there is not that much uncertainty about other players left, because they are all hostile then.

    On the other side you can say and hope that if you have PvE sessions (or at best private sessions to setup as you like, also for premade PvP Settings) that a lot of players bored out on pve only and like the uncertainty about other players and the threat of another sail on the horizon.

    Your argument is weak as hell, sorry.

    Btw it is already easier to get to PL A10.
    There were no Megs, Skaleones, Rum Runner and Double Xp & Reputation Events.
    No Devils Roar with double worth loot.
    Not a nerfed Version of Devils Roar, no rowboat to save your loot when sunk, not that many Forts to farm and also every cosmetic was more expensive and loot less worth.

    Actually horizontal progression is more in favor of not allowing people to choose for a PVE progression system. Like it or not people play for progress and provide us a mode to achieve it with less risks is something many would use and head to the PvP ones for action. Therefore changing the dynamics of the seas and messing with a very specific balance what forms our experiences as a community.

    Damn! can I get your balance of experiences! I mean i seem to be playing on the adventure mode after they have made a PVE mode :/

    There is something that people need to get that if you are having longer sessions, you will encounter other pirates. It is all about awareness in this game, as this allows you to make your choices based on your preference of pirating.

    You can if aware of the situation choose to sail off, this might mean your plans need to adapt. Being flexible is key to a no-interaction experience. You have multiple things to work towards, plans change in a multiplayer shared world environment. This is not a bad thing, I do it as well when I am in the mood for voyages or some specific task or just wanting to kill sea creatures. I get the joy of these type of sessions and don't want that option to be removed (faster sailing for instance might cause issues, limits the time to notice, grab the last stuff before leaving and isn't something I by default am in favor of, even though faster travels are nice).

    The other option is to interact. Be it friendly, neutral or hostile. Now, I am a mixed player, I just love variety. So, how I help create my range or experiences on the seas has to do in large part in how I approach a situation.

    First off, I am very aware of the risk I am taking when interacting with a pirate crew, what I have I can lose and not everyone is friendly be it out of attitude or by paranoia (fear). Yet it is for me one of the most rewarding things in the game, the random interactions with others - even the battles (love sailing around a crew in a sloop in like a 3x3 map radius forever - I am a subborn pirate and do not engage in manners that would disadvantage me even if it means the fight drags on forever - my ship is sacred). I however love the friendly ones, even though they are more rare or hard to setup at the start. Creating a truce is possible if they don't create grudges while you sail around each other - I love the speaking horn and to be honest is the most important tool in my belt.

    Secondly I have a code:

    1. Be ready to fight! Trust your crew and yourself.
    2. Communication is key. Silence is unacceptable (chat wheel is enough, aye/no gets you a long way) - Be clear on your rules of engagement, tell them what they cannot do without provoking you (whatever your code is).
    3. Never leave your ship till a trust base has been established.
    4. Keep your ship safe:
      4.1 Kegs in the area will be met by a bullet.
      4.2 No none crew member may board my ship without permission (so after trust is established). - This gets you in fights though, so be aware of this.
      4.3 Never park your ship on their broadside, move it!
      4.3.1 If possible broadside them (else other side of the island or something)
      4.4 Park properly, sails up - anchor up... be ready to move if necessary.
      4.5 Cannon fire, usually gets met in kind.
    5. Be willing to forgive: your ship is sacred, your life is not (but are warning signs, but it sometimes also just happens).
    6. Get to know your allies names or pirate model. When in doubt, fire (if near your ship)! Usually my approach, but can sometimes be seen as a provocation.
    7. Be aware of the situation, how much treasure is around/where are they/what are people doing (what are the goals)/how long has it been since you were on the ship/how long has it been since you have seen all your 'allies'
    8. Trust your gut feeling, head back to the ship (keep 1 look out) when you are not sure, trust is still not totally there / loot is about to become available.

    I rarely betray a truce or alliance and do so out of paranoia (something happened). Being betrayed happens, but there are usually things that are slightly off when they start making a move to test the boundaries of my code or the opportunity is too damn funny and rare (variety).

    You will notice there are a lot of people out there that enjoy a fight, but also like the truce or alliance approach. Also don't push to hard towards alliancing up at the start, it is not a 'signal of trust', truces are way more easy to have and can develop into alliances. I for one do not alliance quickly, usually don't like the idea that a bigger crew can track my athenas progress from anywhere in the world and leaving usually is seen as a hostile act.

    It is why I am against the PvE mode, as a duplicate of the Adventure mode minus the PvP or a passive mode as many suggest. If we want a PvE mode, make it like the Arena: Something new, a multi-crew challenge with different puzzles, sailing challenges against elements while taking on sea creatures, etc. Stories that in scope and difficulty would be nearly impossible to achieve in the Adventure mode, like 5 crew challenges (with the option to fill up all of them with your friends for all I matter) or take it on in a closed 1 crew for ultra hard mode.

    The balance with the whole mix of PvE, PvP and anyone inbetween is already fragile and as many start to notice in one of the aspects in any PvEvP game. Getting rid of the other party is the best way to be 100% sure that you are safe. Therefore removing anyone that would want a safer trip, which lets face it most people would do.

    Even though they are just pixels, titles, etc. they are a motivation for people to play. Providing them in a PvE mode would remove most of the possible friendly encounters, as when they want to be friendly they will just pick the option that ensures that. It wouldn't matter 'cause they get everything they want anyway.

    I for instance am not against private servers, as I believe this would be far better than a PvE mode. It would be seperate from the rest of the progression, but would have options to play the game as intended or even just allow you to unlock everything. Content creators can have events there, people could make different mini-game modes around a game, etc. Providing people that just want to PvE and never ever are interested in PvP could setup a server for themselves and if wanted for others.

    Games need focus and a clear picture of what it wants to be. It doesn't mean there are no solutions for the smaller percentage of the players to let them play as they want. Their team can handle a certain amount wiht keeping the quality. So, the best solution might not be the most ideal solution for your specific need even though it hits a lot of the boxes. That is how you create a game that can grow and expand, no playstyle is better or worse than another. Even though I do not go out and hunt other crews as my goal, the people that do should be allowed to do so.

    However the grey styles inbetween are the ones that suffer if we mess around with these. Styles like mine or those people that enjoy betraying, etc. We are not a PvE or PvP, people are very diverse and try to keep that in mind, as making a 'style' a choice by providing the same content is a drastic implication of the different types people you will encounter in the shared world, as many of the friendly just choose to not play in your world as a possibility - making it more likely the crew you are looking at isn't friendly.

    Extreme stand points are never good, we are with many and all have an unique view on what we like as we are all different. Multi-players always have their aspects you might not like as much, but the people make it worth it. So, lets encourage to keep playing together and let the session creator see if we meet on the seas.

    Edit: this became a long one, sorry for the big read.

  • 2

    @v@ca-hombre I would never state just ingame progress... some people play to get better, to achieve something that isn't defined in the game. But sure I could stand behind most. ;)

    Pixels aren't the biggest motivator, but it really is a very sizable one in games.

  • 0

    @cotu42 yeah I know what your saying have taken your points onboard and don’t worry about the long reply - it shows depth and appreciation of the topic of discussion!

    Few questions thou - whether or not PVE mode is replica of adventure, if delivered and was completely different but was solely PVE what’s to say all the PVE players enjoy this and never return to adventure again recreating the worse case scenario anyway in adventure just becomes a jerk fest - is anyway (IMO) but yeah

    Next question is that with the grey area players the PVPVE players the ones who PVE with a chance of taking that ship - would they become the new care bears that don’t want to deal with the constant threat of deckheads on adventure mode thanks to the sudden move of pve players but don’t enjoy scenario based PVE because they loved the freedom of being able to start a voyage but actually end up fighting 2 megs and a kraken?! What happens to them!

    The idea of replica game mode offends so many people as they feel they earned something that a pve server would let others obtain easier - other then this, what difference would this game mode bring to adventure that a PURE scenario based PVE mode wouldn’t in terms of making it more hostile?!

    If PVE servers came out in any format do you feel the that a no limit PVP only arena mode come out to balance it, meaning pure players PVP PVE alike would have a set game mode and still leave a adventure with completely random encounters where the PVP pros say hey I wanna take it slow today but still wanna engage PvP and pve players could say I’ve really smashed some content recently and I feel I’m missing that tension a thirsty PL chasing me would add!

    Pure modes for both would leave adventure in a balanced state other then greifers who would still be out in normal adventure trying to ruin it where pirates of both play styles have an area to be pure but still hasn’t ruined the original game mode

    Also I understand that asking rare for two game modes to make one work is a lot to ask! But Microsoft isn’t poor and with a pure mode on both sides and the PVPVE mix which in theory to these modes would actually be a “sea of random encounters where I don’t know the sails intentions” would mean that no player either side would be able to argue and would give players who left cus a reason to come back and stay aswell as take part in the community PVPVE project without having a leg to stand on if they moan cus you had the mode u wanted to play and if u tried something else and didn’t like it then go back to arena or PVP arena or PVE BRO!! arena wasn’t PVP and adventure isn’t adventurous enough (in terms of having to PvP to often and not get to immerse in the game, graphics and islands)

    The player growth poteinal is insane when u think all pves would come back to a sea of friends, all pros would have bragging rights in the BIG boy arena and grey area players still have here magic of a mix in the PVPVE?!

    The actual arena they added become a bit redundant apart from the fact that if u wanna PVPVE but have 30mins -1hr then u can get a small dose of SOT!!!

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    @itskingbertie
    Why are you always spouting this noncense? I am always looking for a good fight. ALWAYS. I will attack a good crew multiple times for a good fight.

    And u want everyone to believe that if you have a pve mode you would want harder AI? I saw in another thread you said in a private server you would crank up the AI difficulty? Buuuuuut you dont want a little pvp????? 😑😑😑
    Comon mate, noone is buying this garbage.
    You will be right back here callin Karen a griefer in no time

  • 3

    @itskingbertie said in PvP vs PvE:

    @cotu42 yeah I know what your saying have taken your points onboard and don’t worry about the long reply - it shows depth and appreciation of the topic of discussion!

    Few questions thou - whether or not PVE mode is replica of adventure, if delivered and was completely different but was solely PVE what’s to say all the PVE players enjoy this and never return to adventure again recreating the worse case scenario anyway in adventure just becomes a jerk fest - is anyway (IMO) but yeah

    I do not think first that it are only PvE players that will use it and neither that they will never return. However, I do think they will choose which mode to join based on what they want to do: be friendly with others - go for PvE so they are also friendly or be hostile with others - go for Adventure.

    Now will this be everyone, no... however it does shift an even larger portion of the interactions to hostile. We notice it with Bildge rat adventures already: just came out - most are friendly, couple of days later - way more hostile behavior by people that done it. Now do it in peace in a PvE server and then go PvP for those that didn't choose PvE.

    The dynamic shifts with these type of choices.

    Next question is that with the grey area players the PVPVE players the ones who PVE with a chance of taking that ship - would they become the new care bears that don’t want to deal with the constant threat of deckheads on adventure mode thanks to the sudden move of pve players but don’t enjoy scenario based PVE because they loved the freedom of being able to start a voyage but actually end up fighting 2 megs and a kraken?! What happens to them!

    No, they would just have less care bears to encounter. You are making out that they aren't already part of the 'care bears'. They are the ones that most likely will stop playing, as the mystery is out of the game and they don't just play like a care bear, but also don't like playing only like a murderer. I sometimes enjoy being a care bear and avoid people... and have been spawn camped, lost millions of gold, etc.

    The idea of replica game mode offends so many people as they feel they earned something that a pve server would let others obtain easier - other then this, what difference would this game mode bring to adventure that a PURE scenario based PVE mode wouldn’t in terms of making it more hostile?!

    Split the progression? Your Adventure pirate doesn't get the progress in the PvE. To promote people to PvE in the Adventure mode and therefore be friendly. You make out as if earning something is about your 'epeen' while it is just a motivator tool to promote players to play in a certain way. It is why you don't get treasure from just killing pirates and sinking ships without anything. Want gold? Want rep? You need treasure and friendly, voyages are the better way to go at it than fighting others (in most cases).

    If PVE servers came out in any format do you feel the that a no limit PVP only arena mode come out to balance it, meaning pure players PVP PVE alike would have a set game mode and still leave a adventure with completely random encounters where the PVP pros say hey I wanna take it slow today but still wanna engage PvP and pve players could say I’ve really smashed some content recently and I feel I’m missing that tension a thirsty PL chasing me would add!

    You have to realize that PvP in Arena is a competitive field, while the Adventure mode offers a different type of PvP experience. However, digging chests is the same in PvE and Adventure mode, minus the fact that you might end-up against the hardest challengers on the seas - people.

    Pure modes for both would leave adventure in a balanced state other then greifers who would still be out in normal adventure trying to ruin it where pirates of both play styles have an area to be pure but still hasn’t ruined the original game mode

    The problem with PvP is that the context, situation and motivation is important. You cannot create a pure PvP mode of a PvPvE mode game as the dynamics are different. A PvE mode would make Adventure more a pure PvP mode while that is not something I want in a Shared PvEvP world.

    Also I understand that asking rare for two game modes to make one work is a lot to ask! But Microsoft isn’t poor and with a pure mode on both sides and the PVPVE mix which in theory to these modes would actually be a “sea of random encounters where I don’t know the sails intentions” would mean that no player either side would be able to argue and would give players who left cus a reason to come back and stay aswell as take part in the community PVPVE project without having a leg to stand on if they moan cus you had the mode u wanted to play and if u tried something else and didn’t like it then go back to arena or PVP arena or PVE BRO!! arena wasn’t PVP and adventure isn’t adventurous enough (in terms of having to PvP to often and not get to immerse in the game, graphics and islands)

    Which is why I am not against a PvE mode, just not the same experience PvE mode.

    The player growth poteinal is insane when u think all pves would come back to a sea of friends, all pros would have bragging rights in the BIG boy arena and grey area players still have here magic of a mix in the PVPVE?!

    You know that Big PvE events like I described as the PvE mode that would suit the game more would attract more players as you can have 5x4 is 20 people playing together, making it a form of Raid Voyages. Which might mean we can have like a guild 'Crew' etc. and having more than 4 people means you have a mode to play together.

    The actual arena they added become a bit redundant apart from the fact that if u wanna PVPVE but have 30mins -1hr then u can get a small dose of SOT!!!

    I enjoy it when I want to hunt, which I don't really do in Adventure mode. It fills a different type of PvP experience, while still feeling it is still SoT.

  • 0

    @nwo-azcrack said in PvP vs PvE:

    @itskingbertie
    Why are you always spouting this noncense? I am always looking for a good fight. ALWAYS. I will attack a good crew multiple times for a good fight.

    And u want everyone to believe that if you have a pve mode you would want harder AI? I saw in another thread you said in a private server you would crank up the AI difficulty? Buuuuuut you dont want a little pvp????? 😑😑😑
    Comon mate, noone is buying this garbage!!

    Because simply put PVP isn’t fun for me when I play on a console - combat is smoother and faster on PC - combat in general is buggy with hit reg and sword lunge bugs that players use and macros!

    AI can’t cheat me out of a fair fight! Yeah they never fight fair i.e 6-12 skeles to one player but that’s part of their difficulty! And they are easy give me a difficult fair fight and I’m happy.

    I play cod/ battlefield even fortnite if I wanted a PVP shooter - not a gun fight on a game that doesnt have proper hit reg!

    Oh yeah and I can be outnumbered :/

    Imagine cod or battefield or any shooter where the matches where sometimes 6v4 or next time it could be 6v5 lol no it would of died instanlry because of balance

    Having hardcore pve mode would be balanced as u take out the player threat and boost AI,

    The current world isn’t balanced is it so wrong for me to want to enjoy a balance and consistency?!

    :) :)

  • 0

    @nwo-azcrack said in PvP vs PvE:

    You will be right back here callin Karen a griefer in no time

    Didn’t know kraken had a arm that can reach into the ship and kill u the moment I Respawn and then keep doing that over and over without sinking my boat :/ thankfully I haven’t ran into any krakens like this!

  • 2

    @nwo-azcrack

    There IS a difference.

    Maybe mostly psychological, but for some (I'm like this too), there IS a difference in knowing you're fighting a player rather than just pure A.I.

    Heck, I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who love Dark Souls type games that are not PvP fans.

    The challenge of the enemies isn't really the issue, rather the intent (imagined or not) behind them. Just because someone doesn't like fighting other players doesn't mean they're looking for a free ride.

    I actually suggested something similar in another thread while brainstorming a very rough idea for another mode, ala Arena, that would task pirates with working toward a common goal.

    The spontaneity and inventiveness of live players is substituted by increased lethality of the A.I. threats.

    Maybe it's something with assigning blame. If the game beats you, there's really nobody to get mad at. Whereas if another person beats you, there's a direct target for you to place blame on.

    Like if a tree branch falls on your car; that stinks, but it's just something that happened. But if someone steals your car, then there's a physical being to get angry at.

    I don't know about the psychology behind it, but I can tell you from personal experience, some gamers find it very different fighting A.I. enemies and fighting other players. And it's not about skill or challenge.

  • 2

    @itskingbertie
    I have fought players that were less of a challenge than a single skelly...
    And u talk about balance in one sentence then say you wanna fight pve enemies, who dont follow the same rules as us.
    Bertie just admit u want an easy mode. Its ok mate. Nothin wrong with being honest. But what you are saying makes no sence

  • 2

    hombre
    See i can understand this. Thanks for puttin it this way. Totally agree.

  • 0

    @cotu42 I cannot quote that message as the thread would just be us quoting eachother soon so bare with me on this reply!!

    First question is what would be the point in a progression-less PVE mode where most pve players want progression to play it would basically be like asking for a sandwich and they give u bread? U take a bite then think yeah I’ll pass!

    Players who enjoy both sides are the fans of SOT and most PVPer are the winners of if as the game design rewards them for no effort huge gain - where as the PVE are s h a t on because if u want to be enjoying the CONTENT rare built you can’t do that un-hassled!

    So having a PVE mode that is progression less is saying here is a mode for no one and everyone is annoyed we wasted time/resource creating it now!

    Also I feel like the fact that PVE in this game is pointless, having PVE world events doesn’t generate enough reason for it to be actually pve instead it be PVE people doing it to find 3 boats are sat at outposts hoping you come to that one to try cash it in!

    Arena mode needs to have a PVP aspect anyway cus that’s what everyone asked for when talking about ARENA but that mode could stay as it still provides its purposes

  • 0

    @nwo-azcrack said in PvP vs PvE:

    @itskingbertie
    I have fought players that were less of a challenge than a single skelly...
    And u talk about balance in one sentence then say you wanna fight pve enemies, who dont follow the same rules as us.
    Bertie just admit u want an easy mode. Its ok mate. Nothin wrong with being honest. But what you are saying makes no sence

    Exactly the reason most don’t want PVE players off the servers, what’s worse then having to earn you gold when u can fight people who were worse the skeles looool!

    And what about AI that don’t follow the same rules as us, please explain whats not balance?!