Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?

  • Unfortunately, the answer to the question in the thread topic is no. I have sunk around 50 hours into Sea of Thieves after picking up my wife's account with the Anniversary Update. Here are my thoughts so far:

    PVP STILL RULES THE SEAS.
    Adventuring is a tonne of fun - you just won't get to be doing much of it. At the very least, it isn't an experience you can count on having. Every load of Sea of Thieves is a roll of the dice. You might have two good sessions in a row where you scarcely see another soul, and then not make any progress for two whole weeks because of constant griefing by other players.

    The fact that adventuring is so damn satisfying makes this all the more heartbreaking. Most of my experience of Sea of Thieves is getting home from work, excited for some down time, and then giving up after spending an hour and a half being sunk repeatedly on the way to my first destination.

    Of 50ish hours of play, only one of my interactions with other players has been positive (I had this interaction about 5 hours in, where a small brigantine crew helped me complete a story chapter - I was so thrilled I shared my loot with them on the home journey). Every other encounter fell into one of three broad categories:

    1. The Troll.
    These guys are just there to ruin your day - they will attack you regardless of whether or not you are carrying any loot. They presumably play Sea of Thieves when they get bored of capturing and tearing the wings off butterflies.

    2. The Sociopath.
    A category of player who really wants to form an alliance with you - especially when you are about to drop off 7 crates of devil's cloth. When you politely decline, they try to sink your ship, steal your goods and/or kill you - I guess so they can cope with the pain of mild and friendly social rejection. Is someone not getting enough likes on Insta?

    3. The Deckhead.
    Words can't quite express how I loathe the deckhead. These aggravating players are there waiting for you at the end of nearly every cargo run, bounty or voyage to swoop in at the last minute and take your stuff. They almost always travel with a large crew, and from my experience will only attack when they have an overwhelming advantage in power (which happens a lot when you are playing solo or with a small crew). The lowest point for me in the game so far was completing around 15 hours of the new Shores of Gold story voyages only to have the final reward stolen from me by a crew of Deckheads. 10 minutes of their time, and a week and a half of mine went down the drain. I liken this to completing a AAA adventure title like Rise of the Tomb Raider and then having your annoying kid brother delete your save file.

    This brings us to my next point....

    A FAILED SOCIAL EXPERIMENT

    Sea of Thieves is an ambitious title that is built around the human drive for socialisation. Despite all the claims of "friendliest online game" and "best online community" that Rare pushed in their latest wave of marketing, in the end Sea of Thieves just enhances the worst parts of our nature.

    Bullying (or "harassment" if you are so invested in you high-school golden days that the former term illicits a round of jeers followed by vigorous chest bumping) is actively promoted in the game design - going so far as to train people to behave this way. Most games are built around positive reinforcement as a psychological hook - play the game and complete milestones and you get a nice sound effect, digital artefact or level gain.

    The problem is that it is far easier and more rewarding in Sea of Thieves to be a "deckhead" for 10 minutes than to grind through voyages that can take up to 6 hours in the latest story offerings. Worse still, positive reinforcement drives people to continue to behave the same way, as they are rewarded each time for their "misbehaviour". This same phenomena forces even the most decent humans to question their play style, as they leave game session after game session without a single fleck of gold to their name.

    Bullying is only bullying if it meets two key criteria. There has to be a power imbalance between the perpetrator and the victim, and it has to be systematic and repeated. So often the word is misapplied to all kinds of social situations, but I don't think this is the case with Sea of Thieves. Being repeatedly targeted by a galleon full of refugee Call of Duty players while I sail around solo in my sloop definitely fits both standards.

    WRAPPING UP
    I want to like Sea of Thieves, I really do. I am constantly told in a slightly condescending tone by diehard pirates that in the face of all the trolls, sociopaths and deckheads, I should turn my sloop around and just "sail into the wind". Unfortunately, this sums up my gripe with the game.

    Every time I load up the Anniversary update, it feels like sailing against the wind is pretty much the core gameplay experience - pushing past all the unpleasantness in the hopes of maybe, sometimes, possibly having 15 minutes or so of piratey adventures.

    To all those people who have a low enough pain/effort versus reward ratio that they feel fulfilled by this game - all the power to them. I'm guessing they also enjoy camping, pasturising cheeses and those recipes for home-made Vietnamese subs that have you pickling your own vegetables.

    With so many good game titles coming out all the time, I'm just saying that this weary pirate might go with the breeze for a change.

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  • I upvoted for the creativity in the writing.

    I mean, you're not wrong either. The community needs something to uplift it and bring it together more. I perpetually miss the initial days of The Hungering Deep, those were truly the pinnacle of what this game can do.

    I've always said to my crew that they should use this game in psychology tests. It certainly does feel at times like we're part of some large experiment testing the limits of human interactions.

    To all those people who have a low enough pain/effort versus reward ratio that they feel fulfilled by this game - all the power to them. I'm guessing they also enjoy camping, pasturising cheeses and those recipes for home-made Vietnamese subs that have you pickling your own vegetables.

    Not sure if I fit into this category or not. I don't like camping or the other stuff, but I don't get as jilted as some when things go wrong in the game. I'm probably just holding on for things to improve drastically or for the next game to come out that I enjoy playing as much - because when SOT is good, it's really good... just seems to be less and less frequent these days, to be honest. Maybe in this scenario of a social experiment, I'm the one who has developed Stockholm Syndrome.

  • Ok here we go again: Cracks knuckles

    @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    Unfortunately, the answer to the question in the thread topic is no. I have sunk around 50 hours into Sea of Thieves after picking up my wife's account with the Anniversary Update. Here are my thoughts so far:

    PVP STILL RULES THE SEAS.
    Adventuring is a tonne of fun - you just won't get to be doing much of it. At the very least, it isn't an experience you can count on having. Every load of Sea of Thieves is a roll of the dice. You might have two good sessions in a row where you scarcely see another soul, and then not make any progress for two whole weeks because of constant griefing by other players.

    You might want to actually play the game before posting things that are incorrect. There's barely any PvP going on in adventure mode at the moment, and yeah it occurs but it deffinately doesn't rule the game.
    There's even a post on these forums asking for people's experience with PvP in a simple A B C question, last I checked no-one answered that there was too much PvP.

    The fact that adventuring is so damn satisfying makes this all the more heartbreaking. Most of my experience of Sea of Thieves is getting home from work, excited for some down time, and then giving up after spending an hour and a half being sunk repeatedly on the way to my first destination.

    It's on the tin, it's a SWAG (Shared World Action Game) with the freedom to do as you please, if you don't like PvP you bought the worng game.

    Of 50ish hours of play, only one of my interactions with other players has been positive (I had this interaction about 5 hours in, where a small brigantine crew helped me complete a story chapter - I was so thrilled I shared my loot with them on the home journey). Every other encounter fell into one of three broad categories:

    1. The Troll.
    These guys are just there to ruin your day - they will attack you regardless of whether or not you are carrying any loot. They presumably play Sea of Thieves when they get bored of capturing and tearing the wings off butterflies.

    Or (just stick with me on this) they think you have loot. Best way to see if someone has loot is to sink him/ her and yeah you want to have the upper hand in a battle so you attack them first (duh).

    2. The Sociopath.
    A category of player who really wants to form an alliance with you - especially when you are about to drop off 7 crates of devil's cloth. When you politely decline, they try to sink your ship, steal your goods and/or kill you - I guess so they can cope with the pain of mild and friendly social rejection. Is someone not getting enough likes on Insta?

    Yeah, there's folk who want loot. Either by making an alliance or taking it for themselves, should have taken the alliance but you chose to sink. Can't see why someone is a sociopath here.

    3. The Deckhead.
    Words can't quite express how I loathe the deckhead. These aggravating players are there waiting for you at the end of nearly every cargo run, bounty or voyage to swoop in at the last minute and take your stuff. They almost always travel with a large crew, and from my experience will only attack when they have an overwhelming advantage in power (which happens a lot when you are playing solo or with a small crew). The lowest point for me in the game so far was completing around 15 hours of the new Shores of Gold story voyages only to have the final reward stolen from me by a crew of Deckheads. 10 minutes of their time, and a week and a half of mine went down the drain. I liken this to completing a AAA adventure title like Rise of the Tomb Raider and then having your annoying kid brother delete your save file.

    You mean pirates in a pirate game? Pirates are opportunists, and if you blindly sail into range of a galleon (or let them approach) you're basicly handing them loot. It's not their fault that you don't want to live.

    This brings us to my next point....

    A FAILED SOCIAL EXPERIMENT

    Sea of Thieves is an ambitious title that is built around the human drive for socialisation. Despite all the claims of "friendliest online game" and "best online community" that Rare pushed in their latest wave of marketing, in the end Sea of Thieves just enhances the worst parts of our nature.

    Or the best, more about this later I guarentee.

    Bullying (or "harassment" if you are so invested in you high-school golden days that the former term illicits a round of jeers followed by vigorous chest bumping) is actively promoted in the game design - going so far as to train people to behave this way. Most games are built around positive reinforcement as a psychological hook - play the game and complete milestones and you get a nice sound effect, digital artefact or level gain.

    The problem is that it is far easier and more rewarding in Sea of Thieves to be a "deckhead" for 10 minutes than to grind through voyages that can take up to 6 hours in the latest story offerings. Worse still, positive reinforcement drives people to continue to behave the same way, as they are rewarded each time for their "misbehaviour". This same phenomena forces even the most decent humans to question their play style, as they leave game session after game session without a single fleck of gold to their name.

    Not true, you probably don't even realise that other crews often just do their own voyages and will destroy you and take your loot if you just happen to be on their path. I suggest you try running a galleon with 3 friends and see what happens when you see a sloop parked nose first into an island that's just right on your path.
    Often people are asking for it.

    Bullying is only bullying if it meets two key criteria. There has to be a power imbalance between the perpetrator and the victim, and it has to be systematic and repeated. So often the word is misapplied to all kinds of social situations, but I don't think this is the case with Sea of Thieves. Being repeatedly targeted by a galleon full of refugee Call of Duty players while I sail around solo in my sloop definitely fits both standards.

    I've been told many times in the past that Bullying is self inflicted. Sure you need someone to bully you and it's a horrible practise. But there are those who fall into the victim role way to fast. Those people shouting please don't hurt me at the biggest guy around while there's no agression or intention to bully gives off a certain signal.

    WRAPPING UP
    I want to like Sea of Thieves, I really do. I am constantly told in a slightly condescending tone by diehard pirates that in the face of all the trolls, sociopaths and deckheads, I should turn my sloop around and just "sail into the wind". Unfortunately, this sums up my gripe with the game.

    Every time I load up the Anniversary update, it feels like sailing against the wind is pretty much the core gameplay experience - pushing past all the unpleasantness in the hopes of maybe, sometimes, possibly having 15 minutes or so of piratey adventures.

    Piraty adventures without pirates mind you.

    To all those people who have a low enough pain/effort versus reward ratio that they feel fulfilled by this game - all the power to them. I'm guessing they also enjoy camping, pasturising cheeses and those recipes for home-made Vietnamese subs that have you pickling your own vegetables.

    With so many good game titles coming out all the time, I'm just saying that this weary pirate might go with the breeze for a change.

    It's been said many times before but I'll say it again.

    • Don't sail alone if you can't handle the difficulty. There's strenght in numbers yet you choose to be a loner. That's not a good Idea, it's the point of self inflicted difficulty.
    • Speaking of self inflicting, if you park your sloop in sight of other ships and you're obviously not prepared to quickly leave you're asking people to raid your ship. It's quite simple, pirates are oppurtunists. They see an easy target and that easy target is you! Why settie with the full cargo you're already carrying if you can expand that with your loot added on top of it?
    • Lack of communication: Do you know what I miss in all these stories? Your imput! I've never heard you about interaction, probably because you don't interact. You call this a failed experiment yet I've been having pleasant interactions since day 1. I've sailed with crews that weren't even my own crew. I've held pirates at gunpoint robbing them. I've publicly executed stowaways with a firing squad (and the stowaway roleplayed with us and all). I've had drinks at the bar gathering several ships together just to drink and make merry. All I had to do to achieve this is use my mike to speak with people and be friendly.
      I've had encounters with people who Demand things, or throw insults before a shot is even fired. I've had encounters with people who like you want to be left alone but go about it so badly that we're inclined to sink them in stead of letting them go.
      Player interaction is key here and if you're not interacting you're the thing that's wrong not them.
  • It all depends on the mindset that you set yourself when embarking on your voyage and how far you are in the game.

    We are a full crew with 4 PL10's so loot we don't care about if we should lose it, offcourse it hurts, but more often then not we just don't even dig it up or leave the skulls on the beach we we're done killing the captains.

    Yes we will fire on sight if ppl sail in a wrong angle to our ship without any voice communicatie and we will sink them if they get to close. If a ship (no matter what size) is at an island or dock where we need to be, we will fire and sink them (or chase them away if they are smart enough).

  • I understand your pain! I do agree with most your points but to an extent, for example - you do normally find yourself in a server with a least one deckhead as you called them but recently have found a lot of friendly and newer players on the seas, mostly solo or pairs rarely find galleons now so would say that you get a lot more then 15 mins free un-hassled time!

    Also having so little time on this game means for you, you will have to take it slow and do 2 voyages max before cashing in and making sure that your grind is slowly but surely working towards PL

    the community are very quick to say your not good enough and tbh your probably not and with the fact u can be outnumbered u have to stay extra careful - I don’t want to be the person to say get better but seriously I sooo sloop used to feel the exact some way and eventually got the point now where I punish people trying to attack me and end up having their loot after sinking them! Don’t know why people attack when carrying loot lol but it takes a lot of game time and finding out certain techniques so I don’t want to be condescending but it takes a long time and a lot of skill to claim you are a solo PL!

    Add me if you like I would love to have a new crew member join me! Recently thanks to the current state of the community managed to find 3 people I can play with that are friendly and capable of handling the ship by themselves!

    This game is trial and error and sadly the error can be you losing time! I used to use this same point that losing real life time to another person is painful and honestly hurts as u have gave so much time. but can tell you now small things like cash in when ever u feel like You don’t want to lose what u have! Don’t let the ship be out of sight for more then 3-5 mins as that’s wnough time for a ship on the horizon to make it to your island, always park on the side of the island closes to where you need to be so you can get back to the ship ASAP in case of attack, it’s tips and methods you have to learn before u realise that the community is a bunch of deck heads but avoiding them at all costs until u are confident of being able to handle them is what you need to master!

    And honestly add me I’ll happily kick start you on the way to PL:)

  • @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    To all those people who have a low enough pain/effort versus reward ratio that they feel fulfilled by this game - all the power to them. I'm guessing they also enjoy camping, pasturising cheeses and those recipes for home-made Vietnamese subs that have you pickling your own vegetables.

    I also enjoy watching paint dry, grass grow, and for a pot to boil. And I know how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a Tootsie Pop.

  • @realstyli

    Thanks for the upvote : ) I'm still playing (for now), so I'm inclined to agree with you on the Sea of Thieves Stockholm Syndrome bit.

    As I said repeatedly in the post, I really want to like this game - the adventuring part is awesome (and I could have also added the graphics are beautiful). Couldn't agree more that "when it is good, it's really good".

    My wife wants to see the game have a pve mode - I'd just like to see some dynamics put in place to make it less rewarding to be a tool (or in fact, for there to be the normal consequences that exist in the real world for being a tool).

    For instance, getting a bounty on your head for attacking ships doing merchant runs. This would add a layer for pvpers and offer some protection to pve players.

    Or having an npc East India Company equivalent that tracks down and hunts aggressive players.

    I appreciate the civil reply : )

  • @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    For instance, getting a bounty on your head for attacking ships doing merchant runs. This would add a layer for pvpers and offer some protection to pve players.

    Or having an npc East India Company equivalent that tracks down and hunts aggressive players.

    You really think that this will make for a more peaceful trip on the seas ?

    Will the players who attack you currently be less inclined to attack you when they'll have the title 'merchant killer' or its equivalent ? My guess is No.

    And what about players who like being chased by AI / NPC ship, saying, "Sorry Mister Merchant, we'll have to sink you otherwise the Company won't chase us".

  • The title is often not visable before your standing next to the person (so on their boat) and i guess it's to late then :P

  • @itskingbertie

    Thanks for the very reasonable reply : ) Upvoted.

    I take your point about "gitting gud", but that's not really something I'm interested in. I've fought off probably a quarter to a third of the attacks that have come my way - which I'm pretty proud of given I'm pretty much always outnumbered.

    The issue for me is more that every second I'm fending off or running from an attack, I'm not doing the part of the game I enjoy. I'm an introvert. I enjoy playing with my close friends, and I enjoy playing on my own with casual interactions with other players. But it's hard to sit back and enjoy an unexpected Rick Roll reference in a pirate's journal you've found on a deserted island when you have some yelping jackrabbits bouncing around the deck of your ship and firing pistol shots like the last alien in a round of space invaders. I guess I find it breaks the immersion of the world?

    Thanks for the tips too, and the team up offer : ) Evidently I need to be having more encounters with people like you out on the ocean!

  • @nessiroj

    Thanks for the chill reply. I don't know how I feel about blasting ships at a dock where you need to be, but I gotta at least appreciate your cold determination to find a parking spot!

  • @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    @Wellsport
    But it's hard to sit back and enjoy an unexpected Rick Roll reference in a pirate's journal you've found on a deserted island when you have some yelping jackrabbits bouncing around the deck of your ship and firing pistol shots like the last alien in a round of space invaders. I guess I find it breaks the immersion of the world?

    Best comment ever! But yeah the seas are what they are, sometimes they are peacefull and sometimes it's a full blown storm with everythng happening at ones.

    Since my crew and i are "done" with the game (just working of commedations and ranking in the 2 new factions). We often accept alliance invites and help those that are in need.

    We love to sink brigs that try to overpower sloopers with our galleon, my QM likes to taunt to brig crew by starting with the line "try picking on someone of your own size" and then the cannons of our galleon start roaring..... The rest you can fill in yourself i guess

  • @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    @nessiroj

    Thanks for the chill reply. I don't know how I feel about blasting ships at a dock where you need to be, but I gotta at least appreciate your cold determination to find a parking spot!

    That's the ting, we can gamble to dock and get shot when you have 200k+ loot on board or you can just make sure you can "peacefully" deliver that loot ;-)

    Besides parking an galleon takes abit more work then a sloop.

  • I'm a Legendary Pirate Thief. I kill. I steal. I loot. I plunder.

    Have nothing for me? Off to the ghost ship with you then!

    Come back to try and fight? You'll live on the ghost ship.

    Scuttle? Good choice. But will not protect you while on the same server.

    Good luck ye land lubber and may your PvE journey be filled with loot for the likes of me!!!

  • You really think that this will make for a more peaceful trip on the seas ?

    Will the players who attack you currently be less inclined to attack you when they'll have the title 'merchant killer' or its equivalent ? My guess is No.

    And what about players who like being chased by AI / NPC ship, saying, "Sorry Mister Merchant, we'll have to sink you otherwise the Company won't chase us".

    @lem0n-curry

    I appreciate your candour, though I'm guessing based on the number of games that have bounty systems in place (including many Rockstar Games titles) that there is probably some evidence that these types of game mechanics work to some extent.

    I have to admit, respectfully, that I find the second and third elements of your claim disingenuous. I'm not saying it will stop pvp (nor is that my design), but I see two real benefits:

    1. Trolls will have a harder time of endlessly griefing players. They will at least have to momentarily give up to deal with bounties or npc flotillas.

    2. Deckheads will have to weigh up the reward of stolen loot with the risk of being hunted down by other players or npcs. Currently there isn't much risk involved.

  • If by "better for PvE" you mean less threat of players attacking, I would say yes. The seas are way more peaceful in my experience than they used to be, despite the forums running over with people who allegedly get attacked left and right. It's so bad right now I've taken to flying the Reaper's Mark when I'm soloing because people seem more inclined to stay away from my general area than even investigate what I'm doing.

  • @nessiroj said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    We love to sink brigs that try to overpower sloopers with our galleon, my QM likes to taunt to brig crew by starting with the line "try picking on someone of your own size" and then the cannons of our galleon start roaring..... The rest you can fill in yourself i guess

    You, are a legend. I hope I see this one day!

  • Sea of Thieves became what players want it to become in terms of content.

    Failed Socialization is a false statement and Sea of Friends is as wrong too.

    You just didn't get what the game is : An open world where anything can happen. It's up to you to choose the way you want to play.

    Trust too much and you'll get betrayed.
    Never trust, and you'll miss one of the best sides of SoT.

    Not full PvE, not full PvP.
    The balance is up to you to find. No one else. Not even the devs.

  • @rk1-turbulence said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    It's so bad right now I've taken to flying the Reaper's Mark when I'm soloing because people seem more inclined to stay away from my general area than even investigate what I'm doing.

    Genius! Ppl are often scared of the mark cause the think "damn that crew is good they are using the mark let's stay away from them".

    Hence even we as crew tend to stay away from the mark if we have anything on the boat that involves a tall tale.

    The benefit being that ppl can't see on the map if your a sloop or a full crewed galleon might indeed scare alot off wannabe pirates (who only attack if they are sure they can win).

  • Don't forget the worst catagory of players there are: the ones who buy a game that clearly advertises a prominent feature( in this case pvp) and then act like it's a personal affront that the feature won't be changed just because they don't like it.

  • I dont know why everyone thinks this game is a social experiment. Do you really think Rare didnt know what they were doing when they made this game? Do you really believe they were that clueless? This is the same company that has given us some of toughest games of all time. They knew exactly what they were doing. And im glad they had the coconuts to do it.
    All of the AI in this game is a joke. The players are the real threat. You even said yourself you went through most of the tall tales. And without the players it would have been a breeze.
    Im really not tryin to be a jerk, but you could have just asked for pve servers and saved all that typing. After i read the title i was waitin for it, and u did not dissapoint

  • Another one of these?

    I'd first like to say: It's a pirate game, grow up and deal with it.

    Secondly, I've decided to copy and paste the following on every daily PvE server thread:

    Be Glad You've Been Sunk
    We've all been there. You have a boatload of loot, you're minding your own business, and then you get sunk by some other players. It feels bad, doesn't it? It's happened to me, it's happened to you, and it'll happen to both of us again. But, despite how bad that feels in the moment, your experince is much better for it.

    As it is, the only challenge in Sea of Thieves is other pirates. All PvE threats can be negated by simply keeping one's treasure in a rowboat. If it weren't for other players, no one would ever lose in Sea of Thieves. Can you fathom how boring this game would be if you couldn't lose? That's why a PvE server would be so dull, because there would be no stakes. Either you don't sink, or you come back 10 minutes later and get all your stuff back.

    Be glad you lose your treasure. If you didn't, this game would've died long ago.

  • @dotcomrobots said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    Sea of Thieves became what players want it to become in terms of content.

    Failed Socialization is a false statement and Sea of Friends is as wrong too.

    You just didn't get what the game is : An open world where anything can happen. It's up to you to choose the way you want to play.

    Trust too much and you'll get betrayed.
    Never trust, and you'll miss one of the best sides of SoT.

    Not full PvE, not full PvP.
    The balance is up to you to find. No one else. Not even the devs.

    Thanks for the reply - rude comment about "just not getting it" aside, I still appreciate the thoughts.

    I can't say I agree with the claim that Sea of Thieves is up to you and "no one else". A sand box is still a box. To pretend that it is some transcendental higher experience without boundaries, and where you aren't being controlled or guided at some level, is perhaps a mistake. There are plenty of things you can't do in Sea of Thieves, and plenty of things you can. Each of these things you can't and can do was deliberately implemented by a team of developers, either by action or omission, to some extent.

    I get the philosophical individualist "fluff" about self determination, but then that is true of any game. I can choose to experience Paper Mario 64 in the same way if I set my mind to it - just in a much smaller "box".

    Sea of Thieves creates a fairly large sand box, and then removes all of the real world social norms, customs and constraints that a society would naturally develop to reign in poor behaviour. Rob someone - no one cares in the long term! Basically it works the same way that social media does - heck I'd even argue that Sea of Thieves is social media, transposed into the confines of video game architecture.

  • Gotta love the replies to this [/sarcasm]

    Whether you guys believe it or not, there is a reason a lot of people don't want to play this game: because of the community attitude right now.

    I know firsthand, I've tried getting more friends to play the game. I even went so far as to recently gift 9 copies of the game away to friends to get them to play (that's real, it was expensive but they were on sale)... it didn't work because they heard bad things about how "toxic" the community is and don't want to be "griefed", despite me trying to sell them on the positive aspects of the game.

    I've long objected to PvE servers. I don't think that's the solution to this issue and would really undermine the feel of the game. If they did do it, I would hope there are major incentives for not playing PvE-only servers.

    A bounty system could work and, if implemented correctly, could benefit both PvE players and PvP players. Maybe more active matchmaking too, to detect PvE players and match them better with those of a similar play style, and the same for PvP players - Surely, PvPers would prefer people who won't run and will give them a challenge?

    But, more than anything, the attitude of a lot of players (who I know are a vocal minority) needs to change to one of understanding and empathy. By all means, be a pirate in a pirate game, but you should know how your actions can affect others, no matter how trivial they seem to you and stop shouting down these calls for a better community spirit.

  • @Wellsport

    Your condescending passive/agressive speech is far more rude than anything i've said previously. Did I say anything rude in the first place anyway? Mhmm...

    The Sea of Thieves experience has boundaries for sure, but it does not guide you at all.

    Mechanics are limited but the choice to be passive rather than going full PvP is up to you. No need to dramatize this topic more than it already is.

    If you are here to complain about how bad YOUR experience was with PvP then you should switch to another game rather than forcing devs to change the game in a way YOU want it to be.

    It might sounds fluff for you to have the choice, but it isn't really.
    Any game offers it and SoT is no exception.

    You just imagined things differently and feel frustrated that the product didn't brought what you expected.

    Another classical topic from a customer that didn't read what was written on the box : Sea of Thieves.

  • @realstyli said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    Gotta love the replies to this [/sarcasm]

    Whether you guys believe it or not, there is a reason a lot of people don't want to play this game: because of the community attitude right now.

    I know firsthand, I've tried getting more friends to play the game. I even went so far as to recently gift 9 copies of the game away to friends to get them to play (that's real, it was expensive but they were on sale)... it didn't work because they heard bad things about how "toxic" the community is and don't want to be "griefed", despite me trying to sell them on the positive aspects of the game.

    I've long objected to PvE servers. I don't think that's the solution to this issue and would really undermine the feel of the game. If they did do it, I would hope there are major incentives for not playing PvE-only servers.

    A bounty system could work and, if implemented correctly, could benefit both PvE players and PvP players. Maybe more active matchmaking too, to detect PvE players and match them better with those of a similar play style, and the same for PvP players - Surely, PvPers would prefer people who won't run and will give them a challenge?

    But, more than anything, the attitude of a lot of players (who I know are a vocal minority) needs to change to one of understanding and empathy. By all means, be a pirate in a pirate game, but you should know how your actions can affect others, no matter how trivial them seem to you and stop shouting down these calls for a better community spirit.

    This. Thank you for stating this so well.

  • @wellsport

    Very eloquent opening post, and you do make some good points - before I hit Pirate Legend, I had similar issues, but it ended up training me to be a real solo-sloop ninja. Hand in after every couple of islands. Sail with your lamps off. Leave an island's gap between you and any other ships.

    However, since then, I've realised that the community has a habit of reflecting the type of energy that you spend on it - I'll loud-hail any nearby ships when I'm sailing alone to see if they need any help, and more often than not, I'll get a cheery reply. I've even bought passage with chests and skulls before. Best advice I can give is to remind yourself that there'll always be more loot, and to speak softly and carry a big stick. Talk to people, but make sure you have a keg in your nest and a full inventory...

  • @wellsport

    I feel like I need to make a general follow up here due to the increased nastiness in the responses coming through (even though some of it is trolling). Apologies in advance, as this will be a bit blunt:

    1. This post, from the very beginning, is very clearly a tongue in cheek update for any gamers like me who bought Sea of Thieves fully aware that it involves heavy/central pvp components, but were willing to live with that because the pve elements and exploration are amazing when you get to experience them. It is simply my meanderings on whether or not I think the balance is right, and is aimed at this player group because Rare is definitely marketing at pve players. All of this was communicated forthrightly in the original post.

    2. This post never claimed to be, and is not, a "lets make it pve" post. If you can quote from this post to prove otherwise, fine. Put up or shut up, so to speak.

    3. Unfortunately, as a few of the more reasonable commentators have implied so far, this thread is likely to keep getting shouted down, despite being very moderate in content and themes (at least by design), and despite (as mentioned above in point 2) very obviously not being about the thing it is being shouted down for. I'm vacating the thread, but hopefully the tone of conversation can pick up from here. I suspect the thread should be closed.

  • @frankblort

    Thanks for the constructive advice, FrankBlort. Happy to call it quits on this thread after such a reasonable and thoughtful reply : )

    Upvoted.

  • I think calling SoT a failed social experiment might be a bit premature. I mean, it's not all doom and gloom.

    Yes, a game like this is a Bullies Paradise. Few other games guarantee you and a few friends the guarantee of jumping in to attack smaller, outnumbered opponents with less fire power while hiding behind the mantle of "I'm just being a good pirate!"

    So yes, you are going to get a lot of those "types". While Arena did little to provide these people a happy place to play (way too fair and balanced) they are luckily still not in the majority.

    I think that you shouldn't write this game off yet. It's still an ongoing experiment and it's too early to call the results.

  • I just decided to quit for the evening due to a series of unfortunate events. Doing the Tale tale. Quest item on board. Got hit by the kraken & Meg. Then when we just barley killed both off. Some pre-teen that I could only guess was about 9 screaming profanity's over the mic. as him & his buddy proceeded to sink us with no supply's left.

    Every day I login to SoT pray to god they set a age restriction for the mics. Cause its far to common hearing it. Xbox does not make a good substitute for parenting.

  • If all these little barnacles with no blood in their veins venture into the dangerous Sea of Thieves and still cry that they got attacked with the Ferryman doing his job, I can't imagine how sad they would be in a permadeath game...

  • @amancebacabras said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    If all this little barnacles with no blood in their veins venture into the dangerous Sea of Thieves and still cry that they got attacked with the Ferryman doing his job, I can't imagine how sad they would be in a permadeath game...

    Guy is trying to help/warn new or potential new players about the grieving in PVE. Way to drive the point across & become exhibit A.

  • @f0ng0re
    Ya no. All he did was bash players who pvp and put them into groups. It doesnt represent the actual game. Players can go hours without seeing another player. All his post does is scare away new players, and exaggerate the pvp element of the game.
    Also there is no such thing as griefing a pve player. Every situation that has potential for pvp can be avoided. The only griefing that can be done in this game is to your own crew

  • @wellsport said in Returning/new players - is the game any better for pve?:

    Unfortunately, the answer to the question in the thread topic is no.

    Actually, it's yes. I understand how you feel though. I used to to feel that way at times for the reason you do.

    Adventuring is a tonne of fun...At the very least, it isn't an experience you can count on having.

    You hit the nail on the head actually. I've said in other posts, "Sea of Thieves can be very peaceful. However, it should be appreciated, not expected." I realize you see the unpredictability of other players as a bad thing at the moment though. (Also, fine line between griefers and pirates)

    The fact that adventuring is so damn satisfying makes this all the more heartbreaking. Most of my experience of Sea of Thieves is getting home from work, excited for some down time, and then giving up after spending an hour and a half being sunk repeatedly on the way to my first destination.

    Definitely can empathize with this. However, most of the PvP complaints I feel can be traced back to people not liking playing on another crews terms. Simply flip it on them. If you don't feel comfortable doing that directly, just as much fun can be had dragging them across the map and finding all the ways you can screw with them during.

    Of 50ish hours of play, only one of my interactions with other players has been positive (I had this interaction about 5 hours in, where a small brigantine crew helped me complete a story chapter - I was so thrilled I shared my loot with them on the home journey). Every other encounter fell into one of three broad categories:

    1. The Troll.
    These guys are just there to ruin your day - they will attack you regardless of whether or not you are carrying any loot. They presumably play Sea of Thieves when they get bored of capturing and tearing the wings off butterflies.

    2. The Sociopath.
    A category of player who really wants to form an alliance with you - especially when you are about to drop off 7 crates of devil's cloth. When you politely decline, they try to sink your ship, steal your goods and/or kill you - I guess so they can cope with the pain of mild and friendly social rejection. Is someone not getting enough likes on Insta?

    3. The Deckhead.
    Words can't quite express how I loathe the deckhead. These aggravating players are there waiting for you at the end of nearly every cargo run, bounty or voyage to swoop in at the last minute and take your stuff. They almost always travel with a large crew, and from my experience will only attack when they have an overwhelming advantage in power (which happens a lot when you are playing solo or with a small crew). The lowest point for me in the game so far was completing around 15 hours of the new Shores of Gold story voyages only to have the final reward stolen from me by a crew of Deckheads. 10 minutes of their time, and a week and a half of mine went down the drain. I liken this to completing a AAA adventure title like Rise of the Tomb Raider and then having your annoying kid brother delete your save file.

    Lol. Accurate, though I can't say I run into many sociopath alliance spammers.

    This brings us to my next point....

    A FAILED SOCIAL EXPERIMENT

    Definitely not.

    Sea of Thieves is an ambitious title that is built around the human drive for socialisation. Despite all the claims of "friendliest online game" and "best online community" that Rare pushed in their latest wave of marketing, in the end Sea of Thieves just enhances the worst parts of our nature.

    Bullying (or "harassment" if you are so invested in you high-school golden days that the former term illicits a round of jeers followed by vigorous chest bumping) is actively promoted in the game design - going so far as to train people to behave this way. Most games are built around positive reinforcement as a psychological hook - play the game and complete milestones and you get a nice sound effect, digital artefact or level gain.

    The problem is that it is far easier and more rewarding in Sea of Thieves to be a "deckhead" for 10 minutes than to grind through voyages that can take up to 6 hours in the latest story offerings. Worse still, positive reinforcement drives people to continue to behave the same way, as they are rewarded each time for their "misbehaviour". This same phenomena forces even the most decent humans to question their play style, as they leave game session after game session without a single fleck of gold to their name.

    Bullying is only bullying if it meets two key criteria. There has to be a power imbalance between the perpetrator and the victim, and it has to be systematic and repeated. So often the word is misapplied to all kinds of social situations, but I don't think this is the case with Sea of Thieves. Being repeatedly targeted by a galleon full of refugee Call of Duty players while I sail around solo in my sloop definitely fits both standards.

    All of this, while frustrating, can simply be addressed by the fact that the sloop is intended and stated as such to be "hard mode". Are they cheap, probably low skilled poor excuses for pirates for doing it to a solo sloop? Sure, but you still have options.

    • Use group finder and eventually make a solid list of regular players to run a brig or galleon (Don't bother wasting time with open crew.)
    • No option but to solo? Consider solo brig. More room for your friends when they log on, faster to much faster than the sloop with any wind in the sails, and it's even faster to bail (though irrelevant if the balance between repairs and bailing gets upset too much)

    WRAPPING UP
    I want to like Sea of Thieves, I really do. I am constantly told in a slightly condescending tone by diehard pirates that in the face of all the trolls, sociopaths and deckheads, I should turn my sloop around and just "sail into the wind". Unfortunately, this sums up my gripe with the game.

    I'd never just tell you that. I'd also add in a non-condescending way to cut through narrow passages or areas with a shallow enough seabed that you can pass though, but they'll get caught. Also dropping kegs, sniping their crows nest if they have kegs, etc etc.

    Every time I load up the Anniversary update, it feels like sailing against the wind is pretty much the core gameplay experience - pushing past all the unpleasantness in the hopes of maybe, sometimes, possibly having 15 minutes or so of piratey adventures.

    To all those people who have a low enough pain/effort versus reward ratio that they feel fulfilled by this game - all the power to them. I'm guessing they also enjoy camping, pasturising cheeses and those recipes for home-made Vietnamese subs that have you pickling your own vegetables.

    With so many good game titles coming out all the time, I'm just saying that this weary pirate might go with the breeze for a change.

    Kinda sounding like you already have your mind made up, or are threatening a farewell post (latter usually doesn't go over well). Hopefully neither, and soon enough you're sinking any pirates that would intrude on your voyage with glee (and ideally 2-3 other crew).

    Also, for what it's worth. I was on with my crew earlier on our usual brig. One crew member has become a bit of a fish thief, so when we spied a sloop with sails up near a storm he swam over as we headed back to turn in a Tall Tale. It turns out he was very obviously either very new, if not on his first ever voyage.
    We weren't going to rob someone anywhere close to that new. A ship fight had popped up, so I was taking our ship there after the tale turn in. Our fish thief commandeered the sloop, meeting no resistance from its owner, and met us at the ship fight. We allied with the sloop, and got the owner a bunch of ship kills and loot (He may have only realized our fish thief wasn't a member of his crew when we were explaining alliance turn ins afterwards).

    To end, the game is still PvPvE, so it will always be a roll of the dice whether you get a session that feels any better for the opportunity to PvE. When you look past any PvP slights, there's no doubt the game is better for PvE now.

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