Tall Tales are Terrible for Sea of Thieves, and Here's how to Fix it

  • First of all, I want to say that the Tall Tales are something I've wanted for a while. A storyline quest is a great addition to the game and something I was excited for. However, there is one large problem, and it's very dangerous for Sea of Thieves and is something that needs to be said and discussed.

    Sea of Thieves is different in many ways from most games. But most importantly, it's unrelenting loot-stealing PVP is one of the most adrenaline pumping, exciting PVP styles I've ever played. Not only is it exciting for the PVPer, but the PVEr has to be a real pirate, always on high alert watching for any threat on the horizon. The risk involved in carrying loot on your ship is what makes the game fun. You all know how good it feels to escape to an outpost and sell that glorious Athena chest or Skull fort loot without getting sunk. Without PVP, it would be a cake walk, and all of that excitement would be minimal.

    Unfortunately, Tall Tales does not have any loot, and all of that excitement is gone. Instead, pirates complete entire hour+ long quests and get rewarded directly with cosmetics - rather than loot to purchase cosmetics. This means there is no incentive for an enemy ship to sink someone on a tall tale other than to simply be toxic.

    What this means for the short term is that there is literally NO loot in the game. Today, you can sink 20 ships and get absolutely nothing but random PVE loot. What we can expect for the future is every time a new Tall Tale is added, for the remainder of that week or month, there will be little to no loot in the Sea of Thieves. This is detrimental to one of the most important aspects of Sea of Thieves. It is undeniably especially bad in the short term before people resume other quests again. Just to give an idea of how bad this is, I've sunk 20+ ships and I only got a mermaids gem, marauders and a few skulls to show for it.

    Let's talk about the long run. I believe in the long run, this is still a major issue. Sure, people will go back to doing regular quests and skull forts for loot, but there will always be people still doing their tall tales. Consider this a major nerf to the amount of loot available to steal in each server. Just think of how long these Reaper quests took. It was months of seeing Reapers sail around the map, and I don't really think everyone completed them upon their removal. People will not stop doing story-line quests until they complete them all, and that could take months for some of the more casual or new players. Additionally, why wouldn't Sea of Thieves continue to make more Tall Tales when they are arguably some of the most fun and interesting quests in the game and so popular amongst the community? This will become a larger and larger problem with each addition of a new quest.

    Also, before you say "Play Arena", that's really a non-argument. Sure, arena is great for PVPers like myself and it's fun to get competitive. I really enjoy Arena a lot. With that said, I will never get the same satisfaction or adrenaline rush as stealing a skull fort or Athena chest, it just isn't comparable. These two types of gameplay styles are completely different. I enjoy the sneak plays, the strategy and the skill involved in a heist. It's not easy to pull off, and is entirely different than sinking ships in Arena. To me, it seems sea of thieves attempted to separate PVPers and PVErs with this update, similar to what Fortnite did recently and that is why this is a problem.

    This is dangerous for many reasons, and it reminds me of when RuneScape (an old MMORPG) removed a player's loot from dropping and replaced it with pre-defined drops from the game. The sales plummeted and the game died for years until they realized their mistake and fixed it. Even still, it was too late and the game never returned to its pre-PVP-loot-nerf glory.

    Now, this isn't all bad news. Rare can easily fix this and still keep the same cosmetic rewards. Instead of just unlocking it for free on completion of the quest, when you complete the quest, it becomes available for purchase in gold, and a pile of loot is unlocked for the quester. This does two things. It brings the loot back into the game and it incentivizes PVPers to be strategic and allow questers to complete the quest and unlock their cosmetics for purchase before attempting a heist. Otherwise, like we are seeing now, PVPers will just sink people on tall tales for no gain, and more or less just to grief the quester. With the current system, in a PVP scenario, both ships are left unhappy.

    Let me know what you think, and give an unbiased opinion of my view of this. I think that there is no reason not to incorporate loot into these tall tales. It makes them more worthwhile and exciting to do for the PVEr, and doesn't ruin the game for PVPers who enjoy the hunt and heist that Sea of Thieves brings.

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  • Tall Tales are just some stories and not a Trading Company but actually the different items you collect during your adventures can be stolen and sold by another crew for the regular Trading Companies (Gold Hoarder & Order of Souls). The last tale even have a very nice reward...

  • Maybe make the quest items worth coin when sold by rival crews. Maybe place regular random loot in some of the special quest zones and rooms as well.

  • @skulliah I've tested, they cannot be stolen, and I am making the case every tale needs a nice reward.

  • @xxcaptmichaelxx Good suggestions.

  • @tart-tee you do get loot you get between 3k or 4k per mission

    Also I've found almost every island you stop at has treasure on the shoreline
    Plus as you stated you get cosmetics granted they all aren't ship mechanics the avg price for cosmetics is about 5k on the low end
    I believe say a kracken hat is 12k so say 15 k worth of loot is far considering you can unlock cannons

  • @ajm123 It's given loot - not steal-able loot, as discussed in my post.

  • @tart-tee then I'm lost

  • @ajm123 Read the post.

  • @tart-tee I always have loot if you are expecting reapers run levels loot that was a event. I'm curious to when you started playing "motherload" ships are rare.
    I kinda get what you are trying to say by assuming no one will have loot because of this event but I don't think at least from my 12 million meters sailed man it's hard to find people with more then 5 to 10k anyway.

  • @ajm123 Skull forts are 20k... reapers 20k.... ashen athenas 40k... But anyway, 5k is way better than 0k. I'm talking about post-update, not pre-update, anyway.

  • @tart-tee reaper getting me a lot but if your lucky you can get that for catching people with a full ashen Athena every island on the boat. But if say from just finding mermaids and skulls on the shore fish we made around 10k. I hate to say it but robbing ships for fish is even worth it honestly because some of the fish are 2500 to 4k the money is out there.

  • @ajm123 Yeah that's not bad, I like fishing and reapers. But that's not what this post is about.

    Anyway, there were ways to find Athenas. I was getting 1-2 steals per day for the last few weeks leading up to the update. Unfortunately, it's near impossible to find one now, even with server hopping.

  • @tart-tee a huge portion of your post says their isn't gonna be loot and I'm showing how people will have loot in the game

  • @ajm123 I acknowledged there is still loot in the game and it will get better as time goes on and people resume normal quests. But it's still a nerf, as I outlined in the post. I didn't say there will be 0 loot permanently. Just right now in the short term, it's extremely minimal and in the long term, it is at least reduced. I sunk 20+ ships since the update and I've gotten marauders, and a few garbage skulls that were likely fresh spawns on the island. Literally. That's it. A few fish worth 200-500, but that's negligible as well.

  • Meg drops fort skulls.

    Your argument is invalid. There's always a chance there will be some loot aboard, Tall Tales or not.

  • @tart-tee I agree with the safe foreshadowing of potential issues that may arise, but even in that sentence, there's a lot of speculation. HOWEVER, I agree totally that incorporating loot into these missions is an excellent idea.

    And let's be honest: No one is going to stop chasing others on the sea. Whether it's the party bus looking to ally up or the grief bus looking for spawn kills, PVP in Adventure mode isn't going anywhere as of now.

    I've actually successfully stolen an Ashen AC, and to agree with you further, that was probably the most exciting moment playing the game. That being said, there's a difference between going for the loot and going for the grief. If the assumption becomes that 80% of all ships you see probably won't have any loot on board, those that choose to go after others with those odds are most probably going to go for the simple pleasure of sinking an uninterested opponent; or attempted spawn-killing.

    Although I hope never to run into you on the sea, I respect a lot of what you put down.

  • @king-sudrapul I agree with you, the PVP won't ever end. I think it will dip in popularity and increase in toxicity as you said.

    I really hope you're right and I'm over-speculating here. Time will tell.

  • @m1sterpunch Never said there wasn't.

  • Yeah, I agree. When I did my first Tall Tale, I was hecka nervous. Not only was it taking me awhile, but it seemed like it was about to open this huge secret cave full of loot! My excitement did go down when I noticed the little totem and found out what tall tales was all about. I did the 1 tall tales and won't touch it again. Maybe I'll do it on a rainy day. Not for me. I'll be sticking with the Skull Forts, Voyages, and the random spawns... still, till more is added :P

    To add on to this, I found it REALLY exciting to do the puzzles! Just wish there was more loot involved in doing it.

  • I'm certainly in the middle here, as I've just completed the first Tall Tale and found about six thousand gold from just emergent loot/threats along the way. That isn't including any fishing I did in-between isles.

    The reason I'm not entirely on board with either "side" is that fact that the loot I found was entirely random. A player can easily miss or ignore emergent loot (megalodon are a great example), so having a few loot items inside vaults could be really refreshing. This would also give players a reward if their time was cut short.

  • @hisdarkestfear play areana

  • @looty-call read post

  • @tart-tee I think if they had a gold reward they would just be exploited, redone just for an easy payout. I had gold on me most of the time while doing the tales, someone couldve just sailed up and stole it all. But I dont know maybe with a small gold payout it could be balanced

  • @Tart-Tee I read the title and thought to myself, "how does this player know how to fix it when there's nothing wrong with it?" Then I read your post. Very well laid out. Wish we had more thoughtful and logical posts like yours.

  • @tart-tee For the most part I disagree with your post. Of course over the next couple of weeks you're mostly going to find crews following Tall Tales, as that's the latest big thing for people to be trying out. But that doesn't mean there will be a massive drop in loot ships are carrying, not entirely at least. Take in to account that loot is a lot easier to come by now beyond questing/taking down forts. Meg/Skelly ship/kraken attacks are frequent and yield rewards, loot washes ashore on many islands, mermaid statues are now much more desirable considering we have another company to level up.... I don't believe that we're going to see entirely empty ships all the time now, certainly not once the hype of the update dies down a little and normal business resumes.

    Having said that, as much as I don't agree with your reasoning, I see no issue in rewarding a little loot for completing a Tall Tale - the more loot the merrier, I say!

  • @Tart-Tee Play Arena and yes I did read the post.

    I dropped in on about ten random games this morning and only two of them had a Tall Tale down and one was an Athena, so they are out there.

    It is perfectly possible to put down a Tall Tale along with another mission. The Tall Tales are not going away they are just new, in time the situation will return to normal and more ships will be out there with loot.

    What would be nice is for them to add a flag to indicate that you are on a Tall Tale that can only be flown when you are on a Tall Tale. That way PvP people don't waste their time sinking unprofitable ships, and Tall Tale'rs don't get their Tall Tale wrecked by a PvP crew.

  • I disagree. We played a Tall Tale yesterday and picked up a lot of random stuff on the way, like mermaid gems and meg loot.

    It sucks when you sink Tall Talers though. Most players don't have a lot of time and if you sink and spawn on the other side of the map, you probably won't have enough time to finish it and you'll have to start over next time.

  • @princes-lettuce said in Tall Tales is Terrible for Sea of Thieves, and Here's how to Fix it:

    I disagree. We played a Tall Tale yesterday and picked up a lot of random stuff on the way, like mermaid gems and meg loot.

    It sucks when you sink Tall Talers though. Most players don't have a lot of time and if you sink and spawn on the other side of the map, you probably won't have enough time to finish it and you'll have to start over next time.

    Yeah, it's not hard to come by random loot if you simply take a moment to look.

    As far as sinking "tall-talers" goes, well, that just comes with the territory...

  • I personally love the tall tales as is.
    While I don't shy away from PvP I'm not only in this game for PvP nor only for PvE but a mix of both. With the Arena and Tall tales introduced I have to say it's clear that if I want to fight people I'd go Arena and if I want to do anything else I'd go Adventure. I can still attack people and I can still get attacked so the integrity isnt touched.

    Having the "Loot" from tall tales be worthless is another good Idea. If it was worth anything that would incentivise hostilities and while I don't mind hostilities in normal gameplay with voyages the tall tales can take quite a few steps some pirates would be stumped by certain riddles and would take hours to find something just to get attacked and have to start all over. So yeah I like that Rare did this. Everyone deserves to see this content without incentivising people to attack them but also without flat out preventing people from attacking them.

    Also also: As an insider you're able to give feedback before the update ships, yet you chose not to. I seriously can't take insiders seriously who complain after the fact.

  • @Tart-Tee I do understand your point. As someone who enjoys the Tall Tales style quests very much, I was surprised by the lack of loot. It seems like there should be heaps of treasure at the end of such an epic quest, right? But here's the thing, and I believe this is why it's designed as it is.

    If every pirate on the seas knew that every ship working on the quests would have to return to specific outposts hauling loads of loot...well, it doesn't take much imagination to see there'd be a big problem.

    Even without any promise of reward, my crew bumped into a brigantine trying to stop us from completing our quest at Plunder Outpost. We evaded them at first, but when they camped the outpost we had no choice but to attack. We rolled up on them and sank them in short order. But for a less experienced crew, it could easily have gone the other way.

    Now imagine if everyone knew we'd be hauling heaps of booty. The end result would clearly be that people trying to complete the quests would be prime targets, and much unhappiness would ensue. Thus the conspicuous lack of loot.

    So while I truly do understand your side of the situation, I don't think providing loot for the quests is the way to solve your problem. As you've already considered, eventually the seas will return to more normal as fewer people are out on the quests.

    By the way, although there's no actual loot, aren't the quest items, themselves, able to be stolen and turned in to finish the quests? Not sure how that works exactly, but I was of the understanding that quest items could be stolen and used to complete the quests. That would have value, too.

  • I don’t think it’s a problem as this game has always been about freedom and the risks that come with it. Tall tales are amazing just the way they are.

  • The very thing that you don't like about Tall Tales was exactly Rare's intention.

    Since launch there have been two HUGE divisive points of contention in the is game. PC vs Xbox and PvP vs PvE.

    The Mega update is Rare's attempt to answer the second while avoiding introducing PvE-only servers. It's no coincidence that Arena and Tall Tales dropped at the same time. A lot of people think that Arena was designed for the PvP-ers but the reality is that it was also developed with the whole community in mind. And the fact that Tall Tales discourages "Banditry" because of it's lack of loot is NO accident.

    Rare are attempting to give both the PvPers and the PvEers a little of what they want without having to totally separating them. Something they really want to avoid. If they hadn't tried to appease both groups (even a little) then player-count would continue to drop.

    If the complaints continue to pour in the next step will unfortunately probably be PvE-only servers. Player count is $$$ and $$$ talks. Ironically (and tragically in my personal opinion) the "Bandit" playing style that you so enjoy is also the thing most likely to cause PvE-only servers to happen.

    So Rare are trying to encourage PvP-ers to do their thing in Arena and PvE-ers to do their thing in Tall Tales without actually "forcing" anyone to do anything. It's passive game-style manipulation.

    I'm not trying to criticise your choice of playing style or argue the Pro's and Con's of any of these topics. I'm just pointing out why there is intentionally a distinct lack of "Treasure to be stolen" in Tall Tales.

  • @viperishemu2992 Yeah, I agree that's exactly why they did it. But my point still stands.

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