make bunny hops exhausting

@nabberwar just because it's a common thing in fps games dosen't mean it's not a stupid feature that should have been nerfed out of all of them. And just because a certain playerbase is used to having the ridiculous move dosen't mean they shouldn't improve their game by removing it.

Don't you pirates bunnyhop during ship to ship battles?

Carrying buckets quickly without getting stuck around stairwell corners, avoiding cannonfire on deck, parkour from the crows nest to a spar, to the enemy ship with a keg. All that exciting pirate goodness nerfed for the sake of realistic fatigue, like this is DayZ.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Bunnyhopping as a movement skill is as essential as sword surfing.

Looks be damned.

bunny hopping in most games ruins the immersion and quality said game is meant to have.

with this said, i too would like to see something done about bunny hopping in SoT. if anything, make it so that players can only bunny hop while drunk.

@william-flint
I mean your welcome to your opinion, I think it's still silly though. I'm confused why so many people get so ruffled over jumping. It's a game mechanic at the end of the day. Some like it some don't. You may dislike it, but it's held the test of time for many games, I doubt it's going anywhere.

@nabberwar well let's try it like this. In my opinion, features that take away from games should be removed, and fearures that add to games should be kept or added.

In my opinion, excessive jumping takes away from the feeling of the game. Your are on the sea, being a pirate, and you come face to fave with an enemy. Now you expect a piraty fight to the death. Instead what you get is everyone jumping around like a bunch of hyper 8 year olds. To me it really kills the moment. It also does not play nicely with having to reload after every shot or the delay of you miss a sword hit, which other fps games do not have.
Should you be able to jump in combat to try to avoid and attack or leap to another part of the ahip/over a rock? Absolutely. But I think there needs to be some kind of stanima or timer to prevent you from doing it repeatedly.

Now, again in my opinion, the only thing it adds to the game is extending fights and turning moments that should be swashbuckling into more of chasing a greases pig. Which is my backhanded way of saying it adds nothing. But you too are entitled to your opinion, and I would be happy to hear what you think it adds, and whether you think it is or can be balanced with the combat system in Sea of Thieves.

@barnabas-seadog
No I do not. I play the game to pretend I am a pirate, and my idea of what is a proper pirate swordfight has evolved since I was 8 and jumpimg on the bed. And that is more important to me than the extra few seconds it will take to hunt your jumpy self down and kill you. I also don't get stuck on stair corners, so maybe you should practice that more and bunny hopping less. Walking is a skill too.

I realize realism is not the be all end all of games, but you do need a balance between realism and fun. And you should be able to jump some, for manoeuvers like boarsing another ship from your crows nest, but some limit does need to be imposed.

As for looks be damned I would prefer for bunny hoppers to be damned.

@william-flint said in make bunny hops exhausting:

@nabberwar well let's try it like this. In my opinion, features that take away from games should be removed, and fearures that add to games should be kept or added.

In my opinion, excessive jumping takes away from the feeling of the game. Your are on the sea, being a pirate, and you come face to fave with an enemy. Now you expect a piraty fight to the death. Instead what you get is everyone jumping around like a bunch of hyper 8 year olds. To me it really kills the moment. It also does not play nicely with having to reload after every shot or the delay of you miss a sword hit, which other fps games do not have.
Should you be able to jump in combat to try to avoid and attack or leap to another part of the ahip/over a rock? Absolutely. But I think there needs to be some kind of stanima or timer to prevent you from doing it repeatedly.

Now, again in my opinion, the only thing it adds to the game is extending fights and turning moments that should be swashbuckling into more of chasing a greases pig. Which is my backhanded way of saying it adds nothing. But you too are entitled to your opinion, and I would be happy to hear what you think it adds, and whether you think it is or can be balanced with the combat system in Sea of Thieves.

This is the key part here though, "your opinion." Which is fine that you have one, I welcome it. However you say things like bunny hopping takes away from the game or breaks immersion, and that is something that really isn't rooted in much facts. Not only do many people not believe that, but it comes of as elitism when some people argue against it. That last comment isn't solely directed at you. I mean you have people saying they refuse to do for reason of pride, because doing said act is for some reason disgraceful.

At the end of the day I just see it as not wanting to get hit. Its just a thing gamers do, I just don't think any more into it. I especially don't get my jimmies rustled when I see someone do it (some on this thread).

I disagree, the game is supposed to be fast paced. Also remember you're arguing for realism in a game where you attack skeletons. I may be ok with such an idea, if combat mechanics were improved overall as well. Yet as it is, definitely a no for me. Gotta learn how to bunny hop, it's part of the game, and most definitely intentional. Just as much as pacing back and forth to avoid shots.

Fully support a Dark Souls-esque stamina bar.

• Running drains it
• Jumping drains it
• Running with a chest drains it (stamina could allow short bursts of this which would be great)

@m1sterpunch people cry about this all the time, i get it its annoying but you just need to learn how to adapt against it, for example bunny hop around them and your chancea of winning are better. I win most fights with bunny hopping with them and gotten better at killing them its easy. Plus they miss you 99% of the time with pistols or eye of reach abf blunder buss well...Just back up a lot lol

@goedecke-michel said in make bunny hops exhausting:

This bunny hopping wants to be removed, please.

• Repeated jumping should exhaust the jumper.
• Repeated hips should make the jumps shorter and flatter, like this: Oo.
• Maximum number of consecutive jumps should be THREE
• Then exhaustion comes, like after a loaded sword attack

explanatory memorandum

• It breaks the immersion.
• It looks stupid.
• It is illogical that one is exhausted by a sword attack, but can jump endlessly.

You can't jump after a heavy sword attack.. Theres a delay.. As much as I would love to see the bois who just hop away frantically reloading their blunderbuss nerfed, I am happy with the mobility as it is. I think a game like this could use all the mobility it can get without literally breaking the game.

Immersion is a silly reason to remove it imo.

• Megs wont attack players in the water

• ink somehow drowns people faster than regular water, even though it would be diluted

• bananas can save you from drowning

• you can fire yourself out a cannon, no matter how big you are

• Regular Gun powder always puts 4 holes in a ship, ever more.

• Anchoring on land causes you to float up the island over and over

• Swiping a sword through the air gives you amazing momentum

• Krakens can trap you in the lower deck of galleons

• Volcanic rocks don't start fires on your ship when they hit.

• Buckets remove an exponential amount compared to their size in water

I could go on. There are a lot of things that "break immersion" for me, but supposed "bunny hopping" (even though bunny hopping is jumping repeatedly and strafing to gain momentum, which spam jumping is not.) which is just spam hopping breaks it is... Silly. Grab a gun, shoot the jumping lunatic. Or, let them hop away.

@m1sterpunch said in make bunny hops exhausting:

Fully support a Dark Souls-esque stamina bar.

• Running drains it
• Jumping drains it
• Running with a chest drains it (stamina could allow short bursts of this which would be great)

This would be things soooo boring. I hated the dark souls stamina system when I wasn't fighting... The idea of needing to lug a chest back EVEN SLOWER already makes me upset. Plus, if youre going that far. Then we can't swim forever in real life. So you would drown if you were in the water for too long and your stamina drained all the way. Big nope from me, I think it would just make the game more slow and gun oriented.
Actually, that's exactly what it would do. It would just promote firing squads of snipers from a boat, rather than sword play. Swinging would drain stamina, blocking, heavy attacks, climbing ladders would slow stamina gen, swimming, etc. All that would do is punish under average pvp players even more and reward people with good aim.

@trenix90 Not sure how "intentional" the bunny hopping mechanic is or was. I mean I've not heard or seen any evidence that jumping was added into the game to facilitate a bunny strategy in combat. I have a feeling it was just a natural consequence of combat in this game that was was not likely to have been envisioned by the dev's at the beginning....now it's a thing.

Personally I think it looks pretty stupid and dont do it myself (being on xbox) but have no real problems with it in game. Im able to kill bunny's just as easily as flatfooters. Perhaps removing it would likely slow down the pace of combat or maybe it wouldn't idk. 🤔

@mrursenpai it's not just emerson though. The bunny hopping definitely drags out a fight much longer than it needs to be, and not in an exciting way. And no one yet has provided anything it adds to combat. I don't think they should compleatly remove it, because you are correct about the mobility being a plud, but they should find a way to dial it back.

@mrursenpai Regular swings wouldn't affect it barely at all. And walking normally with a chest would be also unaffected. Just gives you the ability to sprint with a chest for a short time making it actually faster.

Swimming fast only would drain it in short bursts, not regular strokes.

@william-flint @m1sterpunch
Wowsers two replies at the exact same time.

Ya know what else reaaally drags out fights? When ships run away I have a different thread talking about that, but I don't really think that is a fair complaint. Chase them, predict their pathing and cut them off, or just shoot them. I always do one of the three. And trust me, I have ran into my fair share of panic hoppers thinking itll save them. Sure they avoid a lot of dmg, but they have to stop eventually, especially if they are hopping backwards. (They usually hit something)

Then its not the dark souls system.. its just a thing that punishes players who spam jump. I could understand a stamina system, but it would just end up being like blood borne pvp. Except we cant spam shots, and we don't get iframes. I really don't think its as big of a deal as you think... Sure its annoying, but you have a gun for a reason.

@william-flint @m1sterpunch
Wowsers two replies at the exact same time.

Ya know what else reaaally drags out fights? When ships run away I have a different thread talking about that, but I don't really think that is a fair complaint. Chase them, predict their pathing and cut them off, or just shoot them. I always do one of the three. And trust me, I have ran into my fair share of panic hoppers thinking itll save them. Sure they avoid a lot of dmg, but they have to stop eventually, especially if they are hopping backwards. (They usually hit something)

@m1sterpunch said in make bunny hops exhausting:

@mrursenpai Regular swings wouldn't affect it barely at all. And walking normally with a chest would be also unaffected. Just gives you the ability to sprint with a chest for a short time making it actually faster.

Swimming fast only would drain it in short bursts, not regular strokes.

Then its not the dark souls system.. its just a thing that punishes players who spam jump. I could understand a stamina system, but it would just end up being like blood borne pvp. Except we cant spam shots, and we don't get iframes. I really don't think its as big of a deal as you think... Sure its annoying, but you have a gun for a reason.

@m1sterpunch said in make bunny hops exhausting:

Fully support a Dark Souls-esque stamina bar.

• Running drains it
• Jumping drains it
• Running with a chest drains it (stamina could allow short bursts of this which would be great)

I personally haven't played dark souls, but I've seen many players always suggest for such mechanics for other games. So far, they always ruined combat after similar mechanics were implemented. Energy has always been an annoyance and something that I've ever found to be balanced for any game. It's always the same, everyone drains their energy in the beginning of combat, then everyone waits to regain it back, which just stalls combat and increases it's duration.

@trenix90

I despise the missed swing penalty. I don't want the game to be slowed down any more than it already has. But a resource to manage so that you can't jump endlessly sounds like a step in the right direction is all. They're trying a lot of weird things in the insider build. I don't think this one is as far fetched to at least test in a beta form.

@m1sterpunch No one, not one game, made resource management, such as energy, or even mana, ideal. Cooldowns in my opinion, always worked far better than anything else. The swing penalty I feel is a step forward, but we can definitely use more features. Maybe we can have parrying, different attacks, and different combos. There is plenty we can test with, but energy isn't the answer. There is nothing worse than not being able to do anything because of your energy bar.

@trenix90 said in make bunny hops exhausting:

@m1sterpunch No one, not one game, made resource management, such as energy, or even mana, ideal. Cooldowns in my opinion, always worked far better than anything else. The swing penalty I feel is a step forward, but we can definitely use more features. Maybe we can have parrying, different attacks, and different combos. There is plenty we can test with, but energy isn't the answer. There is nothing worse than not being able to do anything because of your energy bar.

I whole heartedly disagree, and don't think you should be giving opinions when you haven't played dark souls. The dark souls stamina system, especially 3, were amazing. Everywhere, except when running around. The mana system, and stamina system is dark souls 3 are amazing. But, I don't think they would do well in this game. You don't have a dodge that gives iframes, or anything that punishes you for missing a swing or messing up a "parry" or block in this case. To implement the Dark Souls 3 system, it would take a lot of reworking to the combat to make it flow fluidly.

As someone with 600+ hours, 20+ characters made, 40+ game completions, and a majority of that time in pvp. I think I can support my opinion with experience. There are issue with it that wouldn't transfer well, but it wouldnt be impossible.

@m1sterpunch said in make bunny hops exhausting:

@trenix90

I despise the missed swing penalty. I don't want the game to be slowed down any more

I really like the missed swing penalty for one major reason. You can't r1 spam. If you played any Dark Souls pvp, you know what I am talking about. When people run towards you spamming their swing over and over. You can't parry in this game, so it would be very difficult to really punish that outside of using a gun... Then that just goes back to jumping backwards and reloading if you missed, or didnt kill them in one shot. Which no gun does, except the blunder if you land every pellet.

The penalty for not paying proper attention to your attacks is great imo, it also opens room for outplaying with the back step dodge. I personally have used that technique multiple times against players who try to hit objects so they can spam swing.

@goedecke-michel I have a question, are you one of those people who refuse to use the blunderbuss because its "op"? And, refuse to use gunpowder when sinking another ship if it will kill you because its "Cheap and unfair"?

If so, take a look at what kind of game you are playing. Every single pvp game out there as something you can say is "OP and I have my dignity, I don't use it because its broken and unfun to fight" welcome to pvp. Destiny 2 is a good example, there are dozens of weapons that are teeeerrible to fight against. And, tons of people whine about them and refuse to use them forgetting the fact that... If its not literally broken, and other things can beat them. Then they aren't op, you just suck at fighting them. At least, as someone who used to moan about tooooons of things that's what I learned. Just learn how to use them, and then how to counter them. Learn how to "Spam jump" and then figure out its weaknesses, simple as that. Its not some op technique that gives your sword a 1 shot kill slash. Its just.. Moving rapidly at the cost of precision.

Like crouch spamming in fps games, I absolutely hate it when people use it. But, I don't complain about it anymore. Its a mechanic, one I don't agree with, but its there. It doesn't mean I need to rely on it, but its there for people to use if they so please.

Sorry if this sounds passive aggressive, not what I mean't.

@goedecke-michel Sniping is already so weak with the inability to land head shots.. I don't know how well nerfing it more would turn out..

@goedecke-michel said in make bunny hops exhausting:

@trenix90 sagte in make bunny hops exhausting:

@m1sterpunch said in make bunny hops exhausting:

Fully support a Dark Souls-esque stamina bar.

• Running drains it
• Jumping drains it
• Running with a chest drains it (stamina could allow short bursts of this which would be great)

I personally haven't played dark souls, but I've seen many players always suggest for such mechanics for other games. So far, they always ruined combat after similar mechanics were implemented. Energy has always been an annoyance and something that I've ever found to be balanced for any game.

Hm, in Call Of Duty, Red Orchestra or Allied Assault the exhaustion system always fitted very well. Running and aiming fast and calm? Forget it, breathless and with a throbbing heart the rear sight and the front sight shake.

That's fine.

But those are different type of games with way more shooting mechanics. Unreal tournament for example, you can jump and snipe at the same time, being that it was a very fast paced game. Ultimately its up to what the developers want to do with the game. Do they want to add more realistic features, or keep it cartoony and fast paced.

@enticed-malice ahh the infamous "I can't come up with any way this feature makes the game better so I'll just insult people's skill rather than adress if the feature makes sense."