[Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.

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    I just don't see optional crossplay ever being implemented.. At least the way we want it to be.

    With Microsoft pushing the PC side of it's new game pass to the max of late, i think this optional crossplay decision, or lack of, could have something to do with higher up the pecking order.
    Because let's face it, all console players that have played SOT for over 100 hours know only too well that they are disadvantaged in 1v1 combat vs the dark side.
    The amount of times i have played and got well and truly killed outright, and suspected which platform that player might be using is 100% accurate when checking on my recent players list.. Not once have i ever been wrong in suspecting the platform that player was using.. It's obvious to tell, That's how much of a night & day difference there is!
    And Rare know it!
    They also know the vast majority of console users will tick that box with no second thoughts the moment it is announced..
    And where does that leave PC sales etc. It will effect them for sure.

    There was a time i used to champion rare and it's openness on it's information they gave to us players.. I'm not feeling that anymore. It's as if this is being swept under the rug in the hope it goes away. But at what cost? Console players will mostly all reach a point sooner or later when they decided enough is enough of being matched in sessions at a handicap.
    And where will that leave this game?

    Well done to the few of you who asked the questions today.. I was working and unable to throw a question into the mix myself. Shame the answers were as minimal as ever.

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    @natiredgals "It wont split the community any more than it already is." I mean, that just doesn't make mathematical sense lol. And I bought SoT to play vs other players, regardless of platform. Your whole "I want what I pay for" argument is strange, tbh. We all paid for the game.

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    @troubledactual said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @natiredgals "It wont split the community any more than it already is." I mean, that just doesn't make mathematical sense lol. And I bought SoT to play vs other players, regardless of platform. Your whole "I want what I pay for" argument is strange, tbh. We all paid for the game.

    I'm not talking about paying for the game I'm talking about paying to play it. Xbox players do, PC doesn't. while that's the case, the paying subscribers of Xbox Live should be given the option to play with other paying subs on like hardware as has always been the case with Xbox live. The option to play crossplatform is nice and all and I'd use it when my PC friends want me to sail with them, but it really should be an option for those who are paying to play. Otherwise you end up with people who are paying being forced to play at a disadvantage to those who are not paying to play. Its only right for there to be an Xbox pool for those paying Xbox live subs who only want to play with other subs on like hardware.

    As far as splitting the base I'll just reiterate what I said before. Prior to the 8.4 (2 mil up since ani update) players Rare had told us all that both Xbox and PC player bases are healthy enough to support offering the option to Xbox players to opt out of crossplay. They explained that there will be no dead servers as thats not how they work. So the argument that there will be population problems if Rare sticks to the plan has been 100% debunked. Unless of course you're trying to argue that Rare is either being incompetent or dishonest when they tell us things.

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    @needsmokes
    Yea, the Q&A was a little problematic. At one point, if i recall, there were 4 posts with 20+ upvotes regarding crossplay. The response from Cross was the same copy/paste response thats been floating around for months, with the exception that input-split was the description used! I believe Nati and myself immediately asked him to clarify what that actually meant, but alas, no response...maybe this was their way of breaking the news that the plans had changed?

    The problem I see here is this: Everyone that wants the opt-out feature has various legit reasons for opt-out, NOT input-split. If Rare goes down this path, they may as well abandon the plans entirely, as the players that have been advocating for a choice for over a year will simply delete the game. Everyone else will continue playing in the open servers.

    Hey @Rare Employees, maybe someone can clarify what Jason actually meant in the Q&A...Crossplay options as described by Mr Neate? Or as described in the Q&A?

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    @pomalotacusmk3 @NatiRedGals
    I wouldnt really worry that they are gonna cancel the opt out. If they say its commin, its commin. Im sure it was just harder than they thought.
    Which is very wierd honestly. I remember a dev vid about crossplay from loooooong ago and they said the tech guy just switched it on and added it, everyone played and noone noticed pc and xbox were playin togeather until they told them later.
    How can he not just switch it off then?
    Im against crossplay opt out but i wanted to point that out.

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    @nwo-azcrack
    Yep, i remember the video, it gets reposted frequently. The problem isnt that they are cancelling it. The problem was the phrasing Mr Cross used, hence the request for them to clarify. Cheers for the input.

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    Would somebody care to explain what's wrong with input-based opt-out? Wasn't that the whole point of this discussion? That controllers are inferior to KB+M?

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    @l4chsfps
    Nope, watch the video that the thread is based on. The discussion was about Xbox with controller only getting their own servers. PC controller users were specifically not included. There's plenty of points outlined in this thread providing reasons, kbm was just one of them, thats why Xbox kbm users were also specifically not included.

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    @troubledactual said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @natiredgals Splitting the community will not make the game better for everyone involved. Dead servers = not good, no matter how much you want to loot haul in peace from your evil PC players.

    I don't think the servers will be "dead" per se, but I'm of the opinion the number of players In cross play due to opt out will decrease by a fair amount.

    I like the theory behind what rare discussed with how server merges / backfill should work, but even with the player base currently not being split, the reality is there is a lot of optimisation rare could make to the system to make it perform better, it's currently mediocre at best in my opinion, and not acceptable to be left as is.

    The bottom line is if merging / backfill isn't optimised, the concerns about numbers are very very valid.

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    @pomalotacusmk3 I see, that makes sense. So there will be separate servers for all 3 kinds of Xbox, right?

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    @l4chsfps
    Not sure, i guess you should watch the video an see what joe said...

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    @l4chsfps said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    Would somebody care to explain what's wrong with input-based opt-out? Wasn't that the whole point of this discussion? That controllers are inferior to KB+M?

    No it was not the whole point. its a major point to be sure, because KB+M precision and response is long accepted as superior to controller sticks. Alongside that, PC is an open platform, and thus much more likely to be open to hacks/mods/cheats than Xbox consoles are. This isnt saying that all or even a lot of pc players cheat, but we know it happens and we know the majority of cheaters are on pc.

    Pc also gets superior loading times (yes I know about small difference between the consoles I own both an OG xb1 and an X, and I also know about connecting an ssd to an xbox) which can quite often be what turns the tide in a fight. Lost count of how many times my Xbox crew has killed pc players repeatedly but we lose the fight because they managed to kill us once and for whatever reason the black screen is about 3x as long for xbox guys if theres a PC guy in the vicinity. Its been this way since launch and has always been one of the best indicators if one is around. But the end result is we have to be killed less times to sink a ship as we just dont come back as fast, also it reduces the chance of a last second respawn for a counter attack or to save a ship. its not a small difference.

    Then theres framerate. Frame rates directly tie in to input response (where controller already has a disadvantage) and information to the player as well, its why xbox players feel mired by comparison (yes i know it doesnt increase movement speed, not what i'm talking about). It also makes bunnyhopping even more effective vs them. Which coincidentally is easier to do on pc, and easier to do other things simultaneously than it is by default on Xbox. Want to bunny hop around and change directions and eat fruit all at once? much easier on pc.

    Frame rate comes into play too with the addtion of mouse and keyboard on Xbox. Its booty. it feels like pure garbage at the locked 30fps. absolutely not worth changing an entire set up for or investing in wireless for.

    None of these things are insurmountable but combined it does lead players who paying to play the game (not bought, paying to play) being forced to play at a disadvantage. I know there's been big efforts here on this forum to explain away and downplay the advantage but basically theres just less margin for error for xbox players, and you see that play out here on these forums.

    One of the most common denials is "did you play perfectly?" As those opposed to the opt out grill those who come here to talk about how frustrating playing at a disadvantage can be. Of course thats not the wording used, but thats the argument. If they made any kind of error at all, including non errors like "I was on the ferry when my boat was boarded" then their accounts of the mismatch are dismissed out of hand. Of course, its hogwash because even if an error in tactics was made, it doesnt mean that theres no gulf in advantage, it just means that its even harder to recover from that error than it would be for a PC player.

    Theres all kinds of things that could be done to help balance the imbalance, a 60fps mode on X would be a start, but really the bottom line comes down to the fact that they cant actually balance it, and even if they could allowing the paying live subs to opt only to play with other paying live subs on like hardware is simply the right thing to do.

    @l4chsfps said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @pomalotacusmk3 I see, that makes sense. So there will be separate servers for all 3 kinds of Xbox, right?

    this is red herring, what was announced in January has been well defined for quite some time now.

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    @natiredgals said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    Lost count of how many times my Xbox crew has killed pc players repeatedly but we lose the fight because they managed to kill us once and for whatever reason the black screen is about 3x as long for xbox guys if theres a PC guy in the vicinity.

    This happens to everyone and has nothing to do with what platform the other guy is using. The loading takes longer than normal for everyone if there are other players and ships around (and sometimes even AI like meg/kraken/skeleton ships will cause this). This will naturally be worse on consoles because their regular load speeds are already slower, but it happens to PC also.

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    @d3adst1ck

    Yea I know people think its the same thing but its really not, remember we can verify now who's playing on pc beyond doubt. Which means we can also do the same for Xbox players, and I'm here to tell ya its not just "player being near" that does it. Its worse when pc players are near.

    And the thing is, we can argue each little point and how much effect they have but the real talk is the cumulative effect of all of it. Playing on Xbox is simply playing at a disadvantage, its not impossible to overcome, but for a good number of Xbox players, playing at a disadvantage to players who aren't also paying to play like we are is not palatable.

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    @natiredgals If you have proof, you should submit a ticket so that Rare can actually fix the bug because there is no reason that a loading issue should be caused by encountering players on a different platform.

    If you want the truth, you aren't going to get Rare's attention unless you just outright quit. If this is such a huge problem for people on console, the only way to get Rare to notice is if a large section of the playerbase just stops playing completely. Its not that big of an issue if it doesn't affect the player numbers at the end of the day.

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    @d3adst1ck

    Trust me its been done, and again that is just one facet of the multifaceted reason why the opt out should be a thing.

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    @pomalotacusmk3 said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @needsmokes
    Yea, the Q&A was a little problematic. At one point, if i recall, there were 4 posts with 20+ upvotes regarding crossplay. The response from Cross was the same copy/paste response thats been floating around for months, with the exception that input-split was the description used! (...)

    I only see 7 upvotes per post now or are you adding them up ?

    "Input-split" may have to do with controller / kbm input of an xbox rather than just controller / kbm on xbox or pc. I get that you and some others here are disappointed about the ambiguity, but you have to remember this was a Q&A about Arena, detailed response about a totally different topic might be not their expertise and/or they probably just didn't want an Arena Q&A devolve into a console vs PC war as the thread itself almost did...

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    @lem0n-curry Well stated and I appreciate your reply. That said, it could be as simple as saying that nothing has changed in the plan as announced in January. That's really 90% of it right there. Say that and we'll be patient.

    But when its been so long, with so little communication and we've seen them back down on the arena wins total it doesnt inspire confidence to hear it referred to in different terminology.

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    I find it interesting that nothing has been mentioned about crossplay opt out in the last few dev updates.

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    @natiredgals said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @marsmayflower said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @x6beast6below6x said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    And here we have someone complaining that the group they identify with is being generalized about, while doing exactly that same thing.

    I don't support the comment, not all pc gamers are goons who can't have an intellectually honest conversation.

    That said after a year of being told "just buy a pc, git gud, play something else" ect I can understand where it comes from.

    I dont identify with PC. I have an xbox. I see them as the same thing, really. Had both, dont care. I have a life.

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    @marsmayflower said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    I find it interesting that nothing has been mentioned about crossplay opt out in the last few dev updates.

    Happy Play was mentioned only a month ago ...

    /me has no clue how the oil ended up in the bucket

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    @lem0n-curry I'm so confused

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    @marsmayflower said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @lem0n-curry I'm so confused

    Joe mentioned cross-play in the May 29th video ... in the last bit (the 'humorous segment' I guess) he ponders about calling it "happy play" instead so it won't make people cross...

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    @lem0n-curry ah, must have missed that... thanks!

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    @marsmayflower SoT official Twitter account stated today in specific terms that the Opt Out is still being worked on.

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    @natiredgals said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @marsmayflower SoT official Twitter account stated today in specific terms that the Opt Out is still being worked on.

    Good to hear...can i ask how they described it? Like the original plan, or like the Q&A?

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    @pomalotacusmk3

    "Hi there. Our team's also talked about it last night in our Live Q&A and mentioned that our work on making crossplay opt-out is still ongoing! If you missed it, head here:"

    They then linked to the Q&A answer but at least it specifically states the Opt-out is ongoing.

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    @natiredgals said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @pomalotacusmk3

    "Hi there. Our team's also talked about it last night in our Live Q&A and mentioned that our work on making crossplay opt-out is still ongoing! If you missed it, head here:"

    They then linked to the Q&A answer but at least it specifically states the Opt-out is ongoing.

    Hmmm... So they didnt specify which way it was going. Oh well.

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    @pomalotacusmk3 Yea they were asked for further clarification but didnt get back. I do take some heart tho in that they did actually use the words opt out and ongoing.

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    @natiredgals said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @d3adst1ck

    Yea I know people think its the same thing but its really not, remember we can verify now who's playing on pc beyond doubt. Which means we can also do the same for Xbox players, and I'm here to tell ya its not just "player being near" that does it. Its worse when pc players are near.

    And the thing is, we can argue each little point and how much effect they have but the real talk is the cumulative effect of all of it. Playing on Xbox is simply playing at a disadvantage, its not impossible to overcome, but for a good number of Xbox players, playing at a disadvantage to players who aren't also paying to play like we are is not palatable.

    You guys can tell NOW even then its shotty. My xbox friends ask from time to time if I'm playing on an xbox and I tell them no I'm on my PC why? "Oh its says your playing on xbox." Even though before the update you guys acted if you knew 100% of the time anyways.

    Also again with the lagging issue. Should put up a support ticket like @D3ADST1CK said. You can't blame PC players for the lag as that is a server issue. Its not like we have control over it. Rare could fix it. Also the lag doesn't happen to everyone. Not saying it doesn't happen because I've witnessed it when I played on my xbox. It was rare for me to run into that issue with PC players when I was on an xbox and even my friends say it doesnt happen to them.

    So I don't know man. It could be a connection issue from end or a server issue from rares.

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    @xultanis-dragon

    Oh nonsense with 'its spotty". Its never been wrong when its me or anyone in my large friends list I have no reason or evidence to support it being wrong on a regular basis. And of course we could always tell we just couldnt always prove it. Its never once been difficult to tell whos on pc when you're playing on Xbox.

    Again, support tickets have been in man, this has been a thing since launch, only then it was less common because there hadn't been the influx of PC players that has lead to doubling the population of them and probably even more now. I'm not blaming pc players for it, they arent the reason it happens, its not their fault it happens, but it DOES happen around them and its just another reason the Opt out should be a thing regardless of whos fault it is

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    Ive barely played this game since I've last posted, wasn't able to read any of the replys as they got deleted by mods. But the fact remains its tiring saying the same things and being ignored, it really shouldn't be this hard to program cross play, even realm Royale has optional. Like I said, almost everyone I been encountering is on PC so there will be NO dead servers. I'm really losing hope on a game that I could have seen myself spending quite alot of time in. Arena and adventure, but as of now Ill just be waiting.

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    @x6beast6below6x a dit dans [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video. :

    it really shouldn't be this hard to program cross play, even realm Royale has optional

    Oh because you're a programmer or you have special insights of what's happening at Rare ? They said it was more difficult to implement that they originaly thought... And they said all that while they were working on the huge anniversary update.
    Also, maybe, just maybe they have a really difficult time to add this opt-out feature to a game that was not designed with this in mind ?

    Let's not allow ourselves to critisize them like that, talking about things we don't know and "how it should not be difficult" etc.
    We don't know.
    What we know is this: They said it's coming, so it's coming.
    Trust them.

    Cheers !

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    @fractal-pitch said in [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video.:

    @x6beast6below6x a dit dans [Mega Thread] Crossplay announcement in the recent Dev Update video. :

    it really shouldn't be this hard to program cross play, even realm Royale has optional

    Oh because you're a programmer or you have special insights of what's happening at Rare ? They said it was more difficult to implement that they originaly thought... And they said all that while they were working on the huge anniversary update.
    Also, maybe, just maybe they have a really difficult time to add this opt-out feature to a game that was not designed with this in mind ?

    Let's not allow ourselves to critisize them like that, talking about things we don't know and "how it should not be difficult" etc.
    We don't know.
    What we know is this: They said it's coming, so it's coming.
    Trust them.

    Cheers !

    when it is a first party Xbox studio and after 6 months they have been unable to allocate separate servers for Xbox only and have a menu option that will route players to those servers, when you have three development teams now working on SoT for Adventure and Arena and now its 2 months since Anniversary went live....yeah, I think we have the right to ask "why is it so difficult for them to implement" this when originally the plan was to have it in place, at least for Arena, before the update launched.

    So them promising its coming so its coming...yeah, faith in RARE keeping their promises is all but gone right now.

    The game is as popular as its ever going to get, you either play it now or you wont...Arena is already forgotten by streamers and playerbase not really bothering with Adventure or Tall Tales.

    RARE have some explaining to do, but they wont and can't discuss this very thing without Joe Neate mocking those complaining about it not having happened yet.

    Communication is lacking with this after it was made a highlight of the LIVE Inside Xbox in January, now its barely mentioned and when it is its a "still working on it, no new information about it, oh look here is a con we are going to" reply.

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