The only way PVE would work

  • To begin this post, I am a pvp player to the day I die. That being said, I can understand some of the frustration "casual" players face. So here's an idea, you take the existing value of loot and decrese it's gold and rep rewards by 50%-75%. Then, you increase the pvp server loot value by 50%-75%. You could also make some cosmetics that can only be earned via playing on a pvp server. Certain things like this to entice players to play pvp will give the casuals what they want and the rest of us more to grind for in the game. Problem solved.

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  • The rewards could be fixed easily to make pvp servers more efficient than full pve server alliances - that's not the main issue.

    The main issue is that in the adventure mode, which is about making stories with other players, the pvp and the pve players would not be playing together and that would make the experience actually worse for both groups.

    The less skilled nicer players may feel bad about losing loot due to not being pirate enough, but losing the feeling of thrill when they can lose the loot and losing the experience of meeting the thieves would be much worse, because that makes the game the game it is instead of mindless solo pve grind farm.

  • What problem is being tackled here?

    What is “PvP server loot”?

    Indeed: what is a PvP server? I have never heard of these.

  • @surveyorpete "Pvp server" is the server where the player vs player combat is enabled so that players can kill others and steal their rewards.

    "Pvp server loot" are all the rewards that players playing on the pvp server receive for turning in the said loot.

    The opposite are "pve servers" where players can't kill other players and steal their loot.

    There are only pvp servers in the Sea of Thieves currently, but the pve servers are often requested so the topic is about how could it be done.

    Glad to help.

  • @archaell I have suggested something similar though with slightly less impact on gold/rep rewards. This already happens in game as you have different values for items in the devils roar as you do the same counterpart in tge original map.

    Same as in a PvE server you would see less potential danger. Butnot as much less as people seem to think. PvP is definitely more difficult than all PvE threats but the kraken. But the fact is you can have full sessions even now and not encounter any PvP without trying to avoid it. But yes, because there is a difference in the number of threats, that the amount gained should be less. I was thinking more 50-75% of what you get today for PvE mode rather that reducing it down to 25-50% as you suggest. Again, only going with the fact that while PvP could happen, it doesn’t happen nearly as often (unless you actively seek it) as you might think.

  • @playerone23 Sigh. People who purchased an online multiplayer game called, Sea of Thieves, and don't want to play with Thieves just annoy me. Now, I'm not a massive PvP player - I don't actively go to sink ships, but I do steal where I can. But, what's the point of Sea of Thieves without the PvP?

    This notion that the game should fundamentally change because some folks just want to sail, collect loot, and only deal with friendly people who won't steal from them - in a game where the voyage reward system is designed to encourage theft and defending oneself against theft - is patently absurd. This just isn't that game.

  • @bran-the-ent said in The only way PVE would work:

    @playerone23 Sigh. People who purchased an online multiplayer game called, Sea of Thieves, and don't want to play with Thieves just annoy me. Now, I'm not a massive PvP player - I don't actively go to sink ships, but I do steal where I can. But, what's the point of Sea of Thieves without the PvP?

    This notion that the game should fundamentally change because some folks just want to sail, collect loot, and only deal with friendly people who won't steal from them - in a game where the voyage reward system is designed to encourage theft and defending oneself against theft - is patently absurd. This just isn't that game.

    To be fair, they might for some reason think it's a traditional "I'm a pirate who steals from AI merchant ships" game and not be prepared to be on the other end of the stick.

    I'm not saying they should expect that, because they should know what the game is before they buy it, but I would not be surprised.

  • @xcalypt0x Fair enough... but, caveat emptor - the game shouldn’t be fundamentally changed because some folks didn’t bother to read the tin.

  • @bran-the-ent agreed!

  • The condensed soup version of Sea of Thieves called The Arena mode is basically a PvP focused server experience. There is no reason to not give the rest of the community a more PvE focused experience.

    It does not have to be a kids mode or have all the cosmetics, titles, and commendations completely stripped out. Players will be able to come back from The Arena with everything including separate reputation from a new PvP faction to work towards becoming a Pirate Legend in Adventure.

    It would not be fair to say nothing could come from a PvE mode. Rare could for example call a third mode The Alliance. There could be a PvE faction called The Hunters. Players could use its rep as part of the three faction favor the same way. Everyone who sails in The Alliance is in an alliance.

    The gold and rep rewards can be appropriately lower since it is shared. NPC encounters would be dialed up. NPCs would have more health and cause more damage. More frequently and more severe storms. New weather and environmental threats. Hungrier Megs and an angrier Karen. Possibly at some point a third, nastier villain. Sailing alone would be very difficult. Safety in numbers if one does not want to be lost at sea.

    In The Alliance pirates need to play together with other crews to survive. In The Arena pirates must defend themselves against other crews to survive. Skull Forts and Athena voyages are only available in Adventure. Players learn both sides of pirate life in the two separate modes and come to Adventure to continue their adventure, further their stories, and become legends.

  • @x-crowheart-x Have the devs stated that there will be no skellies in The Arena? I understand the notion of no skellie ships, no Meg, or Kraken... but I hope there will be, at the very least, skellies spawning on the islands - even if they aren't at the, sometimes, crazy rate they are now. In that way, The Arena can truly be a more intense, competitive, condensed version of SoT - which is how they've described it.

  • @bran-the-ent said in The only way PVE would work:

    @x-crowheart-x Have the devs stated that there will be no skellies in The Arena? I understand the notion of no skellie ships, no Meg, or Kraken... but I hope there will be, at the very least, skellies spawning on the islands - even if they aren't at the, sometimes, crazy rate they are now. In that way, The Arena can truly be a more intense, competitive, condensed version of SoT - which is how they've described it.

    I do not think they have. I was just suggesting that skull forts and Athena voyages would not be in a PvE mode I was calling The Alliance. I would imagine that Athena voyages would not be in The Arena either. Maybe there will be skellies in The Arena. I do not recall them in any depictions of The Arena yet.

    I was offering an idea to have too modes with the focus on both sides of what can be found in Sea of Thieves. With Adventure bringing everyone together in the bigger open world.

  • @playerone23 alt text

  • @x-crowheart-x Personally, I hope they don't add a more PvE focused mode. If there are skellies and snakes in The Arena, then it still remains a kind of PvPvE - just, a more condensed, competitive version of that experience. I would be sad if it was purely PvP... not to mention, lore-wise, it would be a bit of a disconnect not to have skellies in one particular area where there is treasure hidden. The Alliance mode you're suggesting seems to be a purely PvE experience.

  • @bran-the-ent

    Yes the idea of The Alliance mode would be a coop PvE experience. The Arena is basically going to be a PvP experience. Basically it will be Rare’s version of Battle Royale on the Sea of Thieves.

    With the number of requests constantly growing for a more PvE experience, this was an attempt to offer a suggestion than the usual no reply. It is not just in the forums. We can see it on the sea as well. Players wanted more PvP. Their requests turned into demands. Rare is given this part of the community what they wanted.

    We should allow the same opportunity for a PvE experience as well. It would not be fair if it was refused. My suggestion would allow both sides of the experience to be enjoyed in two smaller modes and bring everyone together for the big PvEvP open world experience in Adventure to finish their progression to Pirate Legend and beyond.

  • Honestly, I still don't think there should be any progression the same kind of progression in a PvE mode that you would get in the normal Adventure mode. I don't think Pirate Legend should be obtainable in a PvE mode. I'm going to quote myself from something I said in another PvE Server topic. I'm copy/pasting what I've said about this already because don't think I could iterate my point any better than I already have

    Just hear me out:

    Why do people think they should just have the option to just "grind voyages in peace" ? That isn't what the game is about. Sure the rewards are only cosmetic and don't offer any real practical advantage, but the rewards still represent an accomplishment. Allowing players to earn the same rewards for lesser difficulty ultimately decreases the effort/skill needed to obtain the accomplishment, thus decreasing the overall value and meaning of the accomplishment.

    Of course this game is more about making stories and experiences, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't protect the meaning and value of the accomplishments in the game. What does Pirate Legend really mean if players could reach it without ever having to defend themselves from other pirates as we always have? What would the "Raider of Cursed Strongholds" title mean if you were able just to go grind out 250 forts without the competition?

    PvE servers / Private Servers are fine, but I just strongly oppose allowing players to reach Pirate Legend by hiding out in a server that doesn't have threats from other players. Because while the game is mainly about the experience and the stories, they DO need to ensure that player accomplishments, while only represented by cosmetics, still hold the same value as this game grows.

    Furthermore, this game is designed so that players see a wide array of situations created by all sorts of environmental AND player behavior. I don't think they should incentivize limiting that experience by allowing full progression in a mode where certain player behaviors don't exist.

    Here's something that I did not say in that comment earlier: Maybe PvE mode should be DIFFERENT than adventure mode in more ways than just stripping the adventure mode of theft/fighting. Maybe there could be a different faction to progress in that could simply contribute to your Pirate Legend status but you'd need to play the normal PvP / PvE Adventure still to complete Pirate Legend status. Similar to the way The Arena will be, a condensed section of the map for the competitive mode, maybe they could do something similar for PvE perspective. I do not think they should go the route of doing a PvE version of the Adventure Mode for any reason. No Gold Hoarders, OoS, Merchant Alliance, no Athena or Skull Forts. Just something.... different.

    EDITED because my wording didn't appropriately convey what I actually wanted to say.

  • @chronodusk

    Why allow progression from The Arena which is a PvP mode and not allow it from a PvE mode like I described above? It would be one sided and not be fair. The Arena will have a faction which rep that can be used as an option for one of the three factions to become a Pirate Legend. My idea would also include the PvE difficulty being turned up. A PvE focused mode should have the same opportunity for a smaller experience of more focused PvE and comeback with rep to work towards becoming legend as well.

  • @x-crowheart-x Right so I added in my comment that similar to The Arena, there could be one faction to progress in, specific to the PvE mode. Something that still allows progression, but like The Arena, it will still push you to play the normal PvE / PvP Adventure Mode to complete that progression to Pirate Legend.

    As I think more and more on it, this is the only real way a PvE mode can be added without making the overall progression too easy or allowing the progression to Pirate Legend to be completely limited from PvP.

  • @chronodusk

    Exactly! We are in agreement. :)

    That is what I am thinking the PvE and PvP modes are smaller, limited experiences that players can play in and progress to a point playing the way that they like the most. Can also jump in for a few quick voyages of either depending on mood and time. Both teach the two different aspects of the open world. Then everyone has to come together to share the combined experience sailing on to becoming a Pirate Legend and bigger better things maintaining the original vision and concept of the game we all love.

  • @x-crowheart-x i see your point but i will say this.....If the Arena mode is horrible and doesnt provide what i think a reward system should be then i will PVP in PVE..or whatever..you know what i mean. I hope rare thought of the risk v rewards in Arena. If not players gonna leave like mad

  • @x-crowheart-x you seem to know a lot about what Arena is, considering Rare haven't said much, are still designing it and haven't even pushed it out to pioneers yet.

    Are you from the future?

    My understanding is that Arena will be a competitive mode, where crews will race/fight other crews over shared treasure maps.

    There will be PVP, most definitely. I'll put money on it that it'll be possible to win that mode without necessarily needing to fire a shot though. I see it as a condensed version of Adventure mode with an actual win state. That's just how I've interpreted what Rare have said anyway. Who knows what it'll be like until we see the first build though.

    So who is to say that Arena won't have PVE and that PVE players will be excluded? We just don't know enough details to make that prediction yet, certainly not enough details to use the announcement of that mode as a rallying cry for PVE servers, or even as an endorsement for the concept of such a mode.

  • @boxcar-squidy said in The only way PVE would work:

    @x-crowheart-x you seem to know a lot about what Arena is, considering Rare haven't said much, are still designing it and haven't even pushed it out to pioneers yet.

    Are you from the future?

    My understanding is that Arena will be a competitive mode, where crews will race/fight other crews over shared treasure maps.

    There will be PVP, most definitely. I'll put money on it that it'll be possible to win that mode without necessarily needing to fire a shot though. I see it as a condensed version of Adventure mode with an actual win state. That's just how I've interpreted what Rare have said anyway. Who knows what it'll be like until we see the first build though.

    So who is to say that Arena won't have PVE and that PVE players will be excluded? We just don't know enough details to make that prediction yet, certainly not enough details to use the announcement of that mode as a rallying cry for PVE servers, or even as an endorsement for the concept of such a mode.

    Thank you for your opinion. We know what Rare has said so far. We know quite a bit actually from what we have seen in the announcement, video, and panel discussion. Yes, it is not final at this point, however all indications it is a PvP focused, a.k.a. "Battle Royale" experience.

    There may be a DeLorean in my garage. I am not confirming anything at this time. : )

  • @texasgold3d said in The only way PVE would work:

    @x-crowheart-x i see your point but i will say this.....If the Arena mode is horrible and doesnt provide what i think a reward system should be then i will PVP in PVE..or whatever..you know what i mean. I hope rare thought of the risk v rewards in Arena. If not players gonna leave like mad

    I do know what you mean. It is just too bad Rare could not stick with what we already have and just been more creative and brought more of what everyone wanted to the same sea. They want to go this route so I say let them concentrate on this for now. If it works, then give all the others asking for the opposite experience something like I proposed.

    Happy sailing mate! May the sea always treat you well!

  • @x-crowheart-x Well signs do point to you being correct. Competitive sounds a lot like PVP is implied.

    We don't know for sure yet.

    If Arena does prove to be a pure PVP gamemode, I hope that Rare does something for players who don't enjoy that style of play. I don't want anyone to feel left out.

    Maybe PVE players might enjoy Arena a bit more than they enjoy PVP in the regular mode though. It'll be a shorter game mode so the whole losing 3 hours of work to toxic players thing won't apply to the same extent and it'd be a great opportunity to get better at PVP without the same level of risk or boredom that currently comes with using Adventure mode for training.

  • To be honest, I see the arena being a place to practice PvP as there will be more "chances" for it to happen.

    I really hate it when people are using the Arena as an excuse for a PvE only mode. The argument usually goes "we'll PvPer's are getting their own mode".

  • @badassfro I agree...the PVE'rs seems to be thinking this is their window to seperate the 2 and i dont see Rare dividing it up like that due to it fundamentally goes against the games concepts of being a pirate game. I too feel Rare is riding a razors edge with letting them believe that Arena will solve the "Pirate Sims" crowd which tbh is not going to be the majority in the future as gaming isnt like that anymore. But then again..Sims is such a low level money maker that i just cant see Rare going in that direction. But then again...we have all seen good games ruined due to snowflakes which really is a small %!

  • @texasgold3d said in The only way PVE would work:

    @badassfro I agree...the PVE'rs seems to be thinking this is their window to seperate the 2 and i dont see Rare dividing it up like that due to it fundamentally goes against the games concepts of being a pirate game. I too feel Rare is riding a razors edge with letting them believe that Arena will solve the "Pirate Sims" crowd which tbh is not going to be the majority in the future as gaming isnt like that anymore. But then again..Sims is such a low level money maker that i just cant see Rare going in that direction. But then again...we have all seen good games ruined due to snowflakes which really is a small %!

    if i ever say "Then again" again...feel free to brig me!!

  • It's just not necessary if Rare would focus on delivering more dlc and content to the game we wouldn't be having topics and game modes that when it comes down to it are splitting the player base.

  • @texasgold3d Happily. :D

    The thing is I really hope if that is the case, that everyone gets to try it as they might like it.

  • @x-crowheart-x Well, my point is that, even if it is more condensed, the Arena doesn't fundamentally change the game (still thieving involved), but a purely PvE experience would. That's the big difference and why I don't believe that, because they are coming out with Arena (a potentially condensed PvPvE, though, more PvP-centric, experience), they should also come out with a purely PvE mode where there is no PvP... no theft. That doesn't make sense to me.

  • @iceman-0007 TBH IMHO...Rare isnt the one splitting it. Its the PVE'rs that are wanting a Sims game. The PVP'rs are wanting more people and better migrations in a server. The PVP'rs in my book are the ones that want this game to grow. More people, more battles, more content, bigger sandbox, etc! Pve'rs want it nice and sweet and grind and be fun etc. And thats ok too...Go play a sims game then!!!! There they can be safe and have fun to their delight. If Rare keeps this fundamental priciple of a scurgy, fun, treasure, lore, risk, reward game they could go on to gain more support and get a better grip in the Gaming market. At this point trying to cater is strategic but at the same time its their juggular (weakness). But either way...they are the ones to go down with the ship (Muahahahahaa)! One thing i noticed is that they sure move slow!

  • @bran-the-ent i say spliting is bad in the long run imo of course. Its better to have both Grinders and slayers in the same game! It makes SoT a bigger world with both and allows more dynamics to the sandbox. If they cater to the Sims crowd...pfffftt....SoT will be slow growth, slow decision making, slow profit

  • @texasgold3d True to an extent the game has elements of both fundamentally it wasn't intended to be one way or the other. But in all honesty by adding the arena mode you are bending towards the PvP element and offsetting the balance that was some what built into the environment. I don't feel it should cater to on particular play style myself. Overall that is what makes it fun and unique. But effeminately shame on Rare for not coming out with more to keep players engage which is why i think they have turned down that dark road where next time we start the game the menu will be six choices deep from them trying to placate everyone.

  • @iceman-0007 i agree with ya on most. But the later part is 100% how i see it also. But think about this...if u seperate the 2 you fundamentaly take away the thrill for (Believe it or not) BOTH! Sorry..i literaly could write a book on this topic and hard to convey in posts. Hope you understand. But the gist of it would be to make the SoT world more open by less limitations than adding more limitations and making it a smaller world.

  • The players who want more PvE are not using The Arena as an excuse. The requests have been there from the beginning. If polled we would probably find that a large majority of the millions who have tried and passed on Sea of Thieves was also looking for more of that part of the game. It probably would be second to the toxicity that can be found in the game.

    The intent may have been a open world with the opportunity for both a PvE and PvP experience, but there was and still is a growing number of pirates in the community who are looking for more of a co-op environment experience. One of the first major content updates delivered more of that experience, even to the point of greatly changing the behavior of players in that direction, and the thirst has grown as we see by the way a lot of people are trying to play and the requests being made here in the forums.

    If Rare can make one option which will be more PvP centric, which again players requested, then demanded for months, and finally are going to get, then Rare should also provide an opportunity for a more PvE experience.

    Sea of Thieves was never intended as a PvP shooter only game that the PvP hungry crowd claim it be. I have heard Joe Neate make comments at various public discussions about the game saying that it was never their intentions to have players going around the sea killing each other all the time. Yet that is what the majority of those that claim they know the original intent to be and say no to all more PvE related requests.

    It is not fair and even a selfish on the part of some to say absolutely no, never. Especially the point of view to look at The Arena as a way for others not like a one group of players to "practice" playing PvP so the other players who prefer or want only PvP, can get more of the way they want to play.

    Live and let live. Let everyone be more pirate the way they want to be. The sea is big enough. Time to be big enough to be more tolerant and accepting of all your brothers and sisters sailing out there.

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