What about reducing all ships speed ?

  • Since I began to play this game, and according to the fact you're aiming at a family game including young kids, I wonder why ships are so speed ?

    This is not helping much voyages completion since it mostly depends of the winds, this is certainly not helping sea fighting or even less manouvering.

    I suggest you lower down to 0.75 all ships current speed for a better control of ships by players, leaving more windows for open sea battles, especially for kids (or anyone) who are regularly terrible at navigation as manouvering a ship.

    /discuss

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  • Just as long as everyone is adjusting sails (up and down) as needed, you can speed up or slow down as needed.

    Often times you will be sailing against the wind and it would be much worse if we had to sail much slower than normal.

  • I'm on the opposite side, I think boost the ship speeds a tad... since people complain so much about downtime between islands

  • I think the max speed of the vessels is about right, striking a fair balance between playability and realism. I think Rare tweaks and fine-tunes this kind of thing fairly frequently, and they've got it pretty close to perfect.

  • @dislex-fx a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    Just as long as everyone is adjusting sails (up and down) as needed, you can speed up or slow down as needed.

    Often times you will be sailing against the wind and it would be much worse if we had to sail much slower than normal.

    The only time one should be sailing against the wind is in a sloop to evade a chaser and it's not even a good tactic, better zig zag between rocks and islands instead.

    For nobody should sail against the wind but upwind instead :
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    @jonavuka a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    I'm on the opposite side, I think boost the ship speeds a tad... since people complain so much about downtime between islands

    This is strictly a pve point of view, not a pvp one.

    @genuine-heather a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    I think the max speed of the vessels is about right, striking a fair balance between playability and realism. I think Rare tweaks and fine-tunes this kind of thing fairly frequently, and they've got it pretty close to perfect.

    Couldn't agree less, the current build is obviously to minimize downtimes between pve voyages from islands to islands, not at all to favour manouvering for sea fighting.

  • @meurtrisseur said in What about reducing all ships speed ?:

    Couldn't agree less, the current build is obviously to minimize downtimes between pve voyages from islands to islands, not at all to favour manouvering for sea fighting.

    That makes no sense to me. If you want to increase your maneuverability during naval combat, raise your sails to reduce speed. It's very simple.

  • @meurtrisseur oh my goodness no!
    Sailing, especially into the wind which happens far too often on voyages is slow enough as it is!

  • @genuine-heather a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur said in What about reducing all ships speed ?:

    Couldn't agree less, the current build is obviously to minimize downtimes between pve voyages from islands to islands, not at all to favour manouvering for sea fighting.

    That makes no sense to me. If you want to increase your maneuverability during naval combat, raise your sails to reduce speed. It's very simple.

    Raising sails directly affect max speed, this thread is about max speed of all ships.

    Lowering max speed for all ships would help to manouver since people would have more precise control on their heading in the heart of the battle thanks to controlling sails. For let's be honest, for anyone having done enough sea battles, currently this is more about crossing each other paths and fire at will for a moment, go away to repair. rinse and repeat.

    This is the very reason why best actual tactics are either to ram the enemy ship to board her and slaughter everyone (vet version) or to ram the enemy ship to board her with kegs and slaughter everyone (noob version). Notice than vets may use kegs as well.

    This is not what I'd call actual sea battles wherein manouvering and positionning is key.

  • @sshteeve a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur oh my goodness no!
    Sailing, especially into the wind which happens far too often on voyages is slow enough as it is!

    See just 2 posts above yours for guidance on how not to sail against the wind in order not to lose time... Sailing against the wind, yeah, precisely.

  • @meurtrisseur oh I know all about tacking. But sometimes your crew don't want to do it (constantly changing sail direction on a Galleon takes a lifetime for one).
    Even sailing into the wind is slow on this game, I hated it when i loaded in during forsaken Shores, wanting to go to the Roar, to realise I had to sail from the very Western edge of the map to the East...

  • @sshteeve a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur oh I know all about tacking. But sometimes your crew don't want to do it (constantly changing sail direction on a Galleon takes a lifetime for one).
    Even sailing into the wind is slow on this game, I hated it when i loaded in during forsaken Shores, wanting to go to the Roar, to realise I had to sail from the very Western edge of the map to the East...

    So you're actually agreeing with me having max speed being reduced for all ships would help in sea battles, for changing sails angle takes a while on a galleon for example.

    Bytheway for a voyage, since you're not pressured by anything but yourself, sailing upwing should be done on the long run (changing course every 10-15 mn) instead of changing sails every 2 mn, which doesn't allow to buy some time, even on the sloop.

  • @meurtrisseur said in What about reducing all ships speed ?:

    @genuine-heather a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur said in What about reducing all ships speed ?:

    Couldn't agree less, the current build is obviously to minimize downtimes between pve voyages from islands to islands, not at all to favour manouvering for sea fighting.

    That makes no sense to me. If you want to increase your maneuverability during naval combat, raise your sails to reduce speed. It's very simple.

    Raising sails directly affect max speed, this thread is about max speed of all ships.

    Lowering max speed for all ships would help to manouver since people would have more precise control on their heading in the heart of the battle thanks to controlling sails. For let's be honest, for anyone having done enough sea battles, currently this is more about crossing each other paths and fire at will for a moment, go away to repair. rinse and repeat.

    This is the very reason why best actual tactics are either to ram the enemy ship to board her and slaughter everyone (vet version) or to ram the enemy ship to board her with kegs and slaughter everyone (noob version). Notice than vets may use kegs as well.

    This is not what I'd call actual sea battles wherein manouvering and positionning is key.

    Nope, sorry. Still makes no sense. You already have the option of using your sails to decrease speed and increase maneuverability. All you have to do is raise the sails a bit. It's not rocket science. The speed of all the ships are balanced. If you reduce the speed across the board, they'll still be balanced. You can't stop people from using tactics like charging in at full speed to ram. But you can use your own tactics to outmaneuver them and make sure you're not in such a disadvantageous position.

    Reducing the speed of all the ships will not help you.

  • I don't think your understanding this right, if you want slower speed you raise your sails, the higher they are the slower you go, the game takes forever to travel in at top speed as it is so I definitely don't agree with slowing ships down more, the vet move is never a ram, usually that's a last ditch effort when the other team are good at guarding ladders, the real tactic is firing someone out to climb aboard and anchor, slowing the ships more won't necessarily lead to more epic ship fights, skill is the determining factor in ship fights

  • @meurtrisseur not really in agreement at all. Sails can be pulled up rather quickly compared to a full sweep from left to right.
    Plus in a battle situation it's actually more likely a crew will want to mess about with sails as they don't want to sink and lose their loot.

    It's interesting to see the different views in this thread though!

  • @meurtrisseur Ship maneuvering becomes easier with a little practice. Slowing all ships would be very bad in my opinion especially for the people you think it will help (new players families and kids). I play a LOT and still get slaughtered by certain types of people who manage to board me. I counter this by not letting them get close and fighting with cannons. If my ship was slower it would be a easier target for cannon-boarders.

  • @ecljpse a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur Ship maneuvering becomes easier with a little practice. Slowing all ships would be very bad in my opinion especially for the people you think it will help (new players families and kids). I play a LOT and still get slaughtered by certain types of people who manage to board me. I counter this by not letting them get close and fighting with cannons. If my ship was slower it would be a easier target for cannon-boarders.

    I don't think so for just turning the wheel usually makes boarders miss the ladder, especially on a sloop. Yet it would ease canon firing for sure, leaving more place for sea fighting due to fails being more easily corrected with next shots.

    People board because this is the best way to slow down a ship, for even with cursed balls canon firing still quite lacks precision thus efficiency.

  • @meurtrisseur
    Hello Mr Meurtrisseur , the sailing is a reflection of what real ships had to endure in the age of Sailing, full wind in the sails makes you fast , wind against the bow makes you slow...This game may look casual but it really takes some time to understand it ...The sails do have an important purpose in this game and don't be afriad to experience with it ...When we enter a fight or better said when we are forced to fight we rise our sails to lower our speed , this way we can hit more shots then when in full speed...Full speed is for gaining distance or faster travel but is almost useless when two ships want to fight ...
    Experience with them , play with them and don't be afraid to fail because it is by failing that you learn and get better in this game...

  • @meurtrisseur Just sail with your sails at half mast when you need more maneuverability. Why should the max speed be forcibly reduced for everyone to help newer players? Imagine going to the Forza forums and saying that all cars need to go slower so that newer players and kids will have an easier time steering. We managed the ship speed just fine when we started, and we improved with practice. So will you/they.

    Be careful about making too many assumptions about the game mechanics based on any real world sailing experience. Some basic things are there, but others have been simplified. If you insist on tacking to head upwind then you will create unnecessary work for yourself and the crew.

  • Also, would like to point out that this game isn’t rated for “young kids.” It is rated for teens. Not to say young kids don’t play, but the game isn’t designed to cater to them.

    I agree with everyone who has talked about raising sails to slow down and gain maneuverability. No need to have the devs reduce the speed of all the ships.

  • Why don't you just sail every ship with its sails all at 3/4? Then all ships (you were on) would be at 0.75 speed.

  • @ghostpaw a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur

    Be careful about making too many assumptions about the game mechanics based on any real world sailing experience. Some basic things are there, but others have been simplified. If you insist on tacking to head upwind then you will create unnecessary work for yourself and the crew.

    I'm not making any assumption at all, in contrary to you guys. I've tested long ago (release time actually) that if you sail upwind you go way faster than sailing against the wind : sailing upwind actually works in the game. The fact most players don't even do it to buy time or catch up on their prize just support my point on reducing ships speed due to most players being bad at sailing.

  • @meurtrisseur Yes, you can move faster through the water by not sailing against the wind (who disputed that?), but you have considerably more distance to travel as a result. You do not travel fast enough to make up that difference. Time = distance/speed. You can simply sail from point A to point B against the wind, or (as you suggest) sail from point A to point C before finally tacking to B to avoid sailing against the wind. Even though you are going slower sailing directly from A to B, you have less distance to cover. This is basic stuff. The length of any side on a triangle is less than the sum of the other two sides. For example, if your upwind objective is 10M away, and you decide to tack your way there by using right angles to get the most out of the wind, you will have to travel 14M to do it (8M + 6M for example). Currently in SoT, you do not travel fast enough (40% faster in the previous example would only break even) by tacking upwind to make up the difference. Also, just as sailing in real life, you lose time and speed each time you tack that has to be made up as well.

  • @ghostpaw a dit dans What about reducing all ships speed ? :

    @meurtrisseur Yes, you can move faster through the water by not sailing against the wind (who disputed that?), but you have considerably more distance to travel as a result. You do not travel fast enough to make up that difference. Time = distance/speed. You can simply sail from point A to point B against the wind, or (as you suggest) sail from point A to point C before finally tacking to B to avoid sailing against the wind. Even though you are going slower sailing directly from A to B, you have less distance to cover. This is basic stuff. The length of any side on a triangle is less than the sum of the other two sides. For example, if your upwind objective is 10M away, and you decide to tack your way there by using right angles to get the most out of the wind, you will have to travel 14M to do it (8M + 6M for example). Currently in SoT, you do not travel fast enough (40% faster in the previous example would only break even) by tacking upwind to make up the difference. Also, just as sailing in real life, you lose time and speed each time you tack that has to be made up as well.

    Your pathetic try of teaching such a basic mathematic theory is as boring as ludicrous. You really think you're the only one having eventually passed elementary school here or what ?

    I've tested it, you go faster by sailing upwind means you buy time on the long run by doing it in sot, the longer the distance of the voyage the more time you buy. You being unable to do it properly in the game, or for real for what I care, does not mean you're right.

  • @meurtrisseur said in What about reducing all ships speed ?:

    @ghostpaw Your pathetic try of teaching such a basic mathematic theory is as boring as ludicrous. You really think you're the only one having eventually passed elementary school here or what ?

    I've tested it, you go faster by sailing upwind means you buy time on the long run by doing it in sot, the longer the distance of the voyage the more time you buy. You being unable to do it properly in the game, or for real for what I care, does not mean you're right.

    @meurtrisseur Wow! Can you show me where I was aggressive in my response? I did acknowledge my information was basic math and geometry. Your responses indicated some possible confusion about it and I was trying to help you. You think you might be reacting a bit strongly here?

    Again, no one has disputed that you go faster sailing at an angle to the wind compared to sailing directly against the wind. What I am saying is, it is not fast enough to make up for the meaningful increase in distance and the loss of momentum during each tacking maneuver. Apparently you are able to go 50% faster or more compared to the ship's speed when sailing directly into the wind. I have never seen that occur within the game. Sailing downwind, sure, but not upwind. Sailing about 45 degrees to the wind goes a little faster, but not that fast (currently). Just be sure you are comparing apples to apples (similar ships) when you confirm this.

    EDIT: Are you that frustrated because we are not agreeing with you that ship speeds need reduction? You made a suggestion and it fell flat. We tried making some suggestions to help you (raise your sails) but that did not appeal to you for some reason. That is what most of us do when we want maneuverability. What am I missing here?

  • omg nooooo!!!
    I mean... NOOOO!!!

    If yo can't control your ship at full speed it is not my fault

    Jesus, NO!

  • Pull the rope! Raise the Sail! You slow Down!

    Not sure what else to say..

  • There's a lot of things in this game that just require you to learn as you go. I agree that for children, wind mechanics can be tough at first to understand, but the way it is currently is still pretty basic. You see the wind, it goes in the sails. You hear a whoosh and see the sails inflate with air. This means speed, this is good. If the speed of all ships could be increased to reduce travel time between islands I will have to approve of that integration if possible.

  • I would like more realistic sailing physics. I do not think sailing straight into the wind should ever be possible. No ship should be able to sail closer than, say, 30° to the wind – which is still very generous for a square-rigged ship. Nor should "setting sails to stupid" be a thing (whether than was intended by design or not). To make forward progress, you should set the sails correctly, and to get to an island or enemy upwind, you should have to tack (or wear); moving the sails from one side to the other appropriately.

    I would not mind a ship sailing close to the wind being able to go faster than it does now, and would even like to see ALL ship types having equal speed in the same direction - IF HANDLED PERFECTLY. That would give a sloop all the advantage it should need to outrun a Galleon, as there is only one sail to trim.

    I would like to see sailing a real skill in this game, to be mastered as well as sword-lunging or ladder boarding. Whatever else they might have been, pirates were sailors first. #BeMorePirate

  • @meurtrisseur why would you reduce ship speed?? you can do that by trimming the sails....... no offense but this was a pointless suggestion. for one sloops are faster then galleons and if you cant out run a galleon on a sloop your doing it wrong, second the ship speeds for each ship are rather accurate. they all sail at different speeds due to what they would weigh in real life give or take because its a game.

    you can speed up or slow down by trimming sails or turning away from the wind. none of your points made any sense for this comment. hate to break it to you.

  • @surveyorpete I could get behind not being able to sail directly into the wind. Currently it feels cheesy and I was shocked to see it was possible. In my book, that is how you go in reverse. Also, I would like to see the sail bug fixed too.

  • Lowering speeds to increase windows in open sea battles, maybe if you are talking about boarding. If the ship is less quick and therefore easier to board.

    Also, don't try to reduce the skill cap of one of the most skill involved aspects of the game: Sailing.

    It is the core of the game and the differences in ability to master it will result in that you never get caught.

    Want to get better control at lower speeds, lift the sail up a bit. Which also provides you with better vision. No need to gimp everyone, just because you are still practicing.

  • If the ship is going too fast for you then trim the sails. No need for Rare to make us all suffer. The ships are slow enough as is, I do not think they need to go any slower.

  • Hmmm, but even at max speed a Sloop is still more maneuverable than a Brigantine and a Galleon. Even if you lower or raise maximum speed for all ships, a Sloop is still more maneuverable than a Brigantine or Galleon. The Pro's and Con's for each ship types handling won't change with a generalized velocity nerf, that will only effect travel time.
    Now if you're talking about speed and maneuverability as it pertains to interdiction and Naval Battle tactics, you're still running into the same issues above but reversed. Maneuverability over the long term isn't as much an issue as speed and interception angle (assuming your target does nothing to evade). Even general maritime strategy is out, since we'll never have enough ships of the line to perform anything of the like. The only one that applies is a general melee.
    Combat (Land or Sea) in SoT is more akin to Rock, Paper, Scissors and crew skill + cohesiveness. It's learning from mistakes and practice, while working within the parameters of the game's rules (physics). This, I feel, is a much better lesson to teach youngsters than simply changing the rules to suit the assumption of their inability to grasp the mechanics.

  • @meurtrisseur Terrible suggestion ships speeds, etc are fine the way they are.

  • @meurtrisseur I already think the opposite, they should increase the speed. there is nothing more boring than riding a galleon against the wind...

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