Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea

  • After seeing a lot of people suggest this, I have 2 reasons to support my point:

    1. It would be completely overpowered in PvP and PvE combat.
      A ship of 5 - 8 pirates, as suggested by most of the community, would dominate just about anything thrown at it. Skeleton forts? Easy. Have one pirate on the lookout, 2 on the ship's cannons, and the remaining 5 fighting the skeletons. Would take a matter of minutes to complete. A ship with 10 - 16 guns (twice the max number of players, like the galleon), would shred any ship, making Skeleton Fleets just as easy to complete.
    2. Now before you all start commenting that it would be incredibly slow, thus balancing it out, why should anyone use it if it was slow? It would be so damn slow a sloop could outrun it, which would make it useless if you're trying to travel between islands. Plus, you'd have to stay completely away from the Devil's Roar, cause your size and speed would make you an easy target for an erupting volcano.

    Now I'm not saying that it's a bad idea in general, but having it as a regular open ship type wouldn't work. On the other hand, there are still ways to implement a Man-of-War. E.g. as a kind of boss skeleton ship. It would be incredibly challenging to defeat but the rewards would definitely be worth. Also I used way too many "woulds" in this post.

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  • You posture the solution in your own words. Slower. If a Man-o-War was as fast as a sloop, and turned slower than a galleon I think it would still be fair. You also have to take into consideration the fact that a behemoth like this needs communication to get going. Hell you would probably need sails to assist it in turning (called jib sails). so bringing the cannon aspect bear would take a lot of coordination, but when you get it right... boom, which is fitting. Everyone going against you should be trying to keep their distance, and out of your line of fire. And to round off my counter argument, with how big this thing will be with potentially 4 decks instead of the galleon's three, think of the problem your crew will have making sure all the holes are patched. You have a wider area to cover to get between the holes and more damage hitting you because you are a bigger, slower and easier target. I think the idea is balanced. The real threat outside of a man-o-war's cannons would be boarding parties. For that? Keep your distance and keep your guard up.

  • Well to be fair I wouldn't think the MoW (Man of War) be that over powered in a few reasons. 1. Yes it be slow but it does hold some what of historical accuracy as from what I can find it can go to 8 or 9 knots or even 11 from the HMS Victoria. Then again the Galleon is somewhat in the 8 or 9 knots speed, A sloop is 20 knots. Of course historical accuracy is not what the game is intended to have. I mean the sloop can outrun the MoW by going against the wind, but for like the galleon it goes faster with the wind to catch up.

    1. I think 5-8 will not likely happen but would be interesting to test, as far as I think it be at least 5-6 maybe 7 but 10 guns would be quite over the top. From this link it shows a custom/ fan made MoW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSE3AcnwrIE And it does look like a fair enough ship as theirs 6 guns on each side and does have a unique look and can be seen easily in Sot. 3. The ship turning would be less than a galleon so it be best to plan how you sail and attack which bring to the next part. 4. Having a bigger crew could lead to more of a high risk and reward, the reason I say that is the crew need to have good communication and teamwork which works well with friends, in open crew your rolling for a lower chance of a great crew like the galleon so if not so great crew, then they wont survive so well.

    Which is why alliances are a thing so that a sloop, galleon or brig can team up to take this one big target down which for the MoW the crew need some good shots at smaller targets. Overall I wouldn't think the MoW would have 5-8 or 10 guns but from the link and the info of what i can be like, would be much for far in the seas. But thats just my two gold on it, until it comes out we will see what it would be like in the open seven seas.

  • @becausescience1 I think its fair but you apparently don't know rare well enough to think they will make it fair just like the galleon vs sloop

  • I agree, that it would probably be a nightmare to balance with other ships. However, with Arena coming, I could see it as a possible separate server mode with bigger ships like that, if engine limitations would allow it. (i'd expect problems not only with rendering and physics, but netcode and lag problems would have to be addressed as well)

  • The Man-of-War would be one of the worst idea for this game .. all the players who entended to see that kind of ship completely do not know how to pvp, AND they are the first to propose stupid ideas that ruin the game for good.
    As one of the most agressive and greatest fighter who has been so disappointed by the direction of the game has taken, I'm still thinking of the future of the game, and so, of all the players that don't want to pvp, and play as safe as possible.
    All the three ships can be deadly, depends of the crew, but when I especially sail in a galleon, with my regular crew .. we are invincible, not matter what kind of player we're fighting, or how many ships.
    The cursed (HarryPotter) canonballs already broke the game, so if we want to see that game being at the top, the devs must not add that big ship.
    I like the idea for the Arena though.
    We need a bigger world, so new areas with their own proper fauna and flora, that is already discussed, some new kind of athena quest on the unactivated fortresses and more ships on servers. That should be effin' great, and that would give us a ton of things to do waiting something new.

  • @becausescience1 said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    After seeing a lot of people suggest this, I have 2 reasons to support my point:

    1. It would be completely overpowered in PvP and PvE combat.
      A ship of 5 - 8 pirates, as suggested by most of the community, would dominate just about anything thrown at it. Skeleton forts? Easy. Have one pirate on the lookout, 2 on the ship's cannons, and the remaining 5 fighting the skeletons. Would take a matter of minutes to complete. A ship with 10 - 16 guns (twice the max number of players, like the galleon), would shred any ship, making Skeleton Fleets just as easy to complete.
    2. Now before you all start commenting that it would be incredibly slow, thus balancing it out, why should anyone use it if it was slow? It would be so damn slow a sloop could outrun it, which would make it useless if you're trying to travel between islands. Plus, you'd have to stay completely away from the Devil's Roar, cause your size and speed would make you an easy target for an erupting volcano.

    Now I'm not saying that it's a bad idea in general, but having it as a regular open ship type wouldn't work. On the other hand, there are still ways to implement a Man-of-War. E.g. as a kind of boss skeleton ship. It would be incredibly challenging to defeat but the rewards would definitely be worth. Also I used way too many "woulds" in this post.

    Just 2 things

    1. Your correct if they know how to land shots. And the enemy ship dont know how to shoot at the MoW while being out side of cannonrange/angle.
    2. U won't have to stay away from DR. I reckon the MoW would be even fleshier than a Galleon? A galleon can tank vulcano's easily. So a bigger more fleshie ship would even be easier.
  • I don't know why people keep suggesting this. The game isn't designed for crews this large.

  • And another reason nobody mentions is what about foreign people . Yes ,i know , i will write the next line that will be answered to this ." Learn your English/ French/German/ Spanish" to name a few main world languages ,but that is not the point. i can follow English but when more than six peoples are talking it's becomes a sludge war to translate everything that comes towards you , and for once i don't think i'm the only one that has that problem...i hope.

    Another thing that could grow towards problems is that 8 pirates may start have little cliques that would lead to quarrels if there is doubt to what to do next in the adventure...A ship of that size would be very hard to seize when you go against it with a normal crew of 4-3-2 -1 pirate...They have 8 and can send so many people to repair while still shooting cannons like a Fortress...i'm sure that ,if Rare would introduce it , it will probably work but how they will tackle the amount of info coming towards those people , like me, who won't be able to follow? Well, i fear i will have to go to school and get some more braincells...

  • @becausescience1 a dit dans Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea :

    After seeing a lot of people suggest this, I have 2 reasons to support my point:

    1. It would be completely overpowered in PvP and PvE combat.

    This is totally wrong... And you know why of course... Yes a Man O War could be really powerful, but it also would be really difficult to control... Of course it would not be unfair. Rare would make everything to create a fair new ship.

    It's called GAME DESIGN.

    1. with that arguement you could make the case that the galleon already does this, by it having more cannons/players on it then any other ship.
    2. wrong way round, in that argument it would be very fast, just have the turning circle of a rocket. In terms of the devils roar however i do see where your coming from. But having a large crew would negate this as many would be on repair (Unless they are all taken out from a single hit from a rock) so in a way this is negated in another its not, it just depends what happens.

    altogether though, i do think adding it would be interesting to see how the community takes to it. but i do have to admit if it was going to be a thing i can see them releasing it with the arena they announced, a pvp based ship, in a dlc based on pvp. just makes sense in my head

  • @moonflower2018 “As one of the most agressive and greatest fighter who has been so disappointed by the direction of the game has taken,...” you forgot of all time.
    I for one would like to see it introduce and curious on how they would balance it. I believe I heard a shipwright talking about one. Don’t remember what outpost though.

  • If the MoW was added to the game, I believe you would have a mixed bag of skill. Like any other ship, how well the crew performs is the deciding factor. A ship of random players, will sink faster then any ship out there. These kind of players believe player count determines success. Which is not the only case. These kind of players don't understand the game, or at least the intricacy of PvP encounters.

    However, can someone honestly say that a ship of 8 competent team oriented players, of whom sail together all the time, wouldn't be a destructive force? If you know your role and stick too it the ship will be unsinkable.

  • @becausescience1 completely agree, mate. It being a boss battle is a great idea, but I also believe the developers shouldn't be focussing on a Man of War. It a shame we can't have a fifth player on board, but I stand behind the fact that it isn't fair for other crews.

  • Crews on this ship could be restricted to one weapon, except maybe the captain and their first mate or something (captaincy update? where are you? Lol)

    Respawn timers would be longer based on crew size, ammo count could be 3 before reload instead of 5, idc how they justify these things as we can shoot ourselves out of cannons. Point is they could make it balanced if they made some exceptions to their level playing ground per singular player, which adding this ship would itself do so imo these suggestions would be fine. Who needs 2 weapons when you can fire a cannon from cover below decks? Be another case of teamwork being key and i can still see the pro sloops sinking these behemoths in my head as we speak haha.

    Aswell as this the ship would be slow to accelerate and decelerate, have a decent top speed but be completely unwieldy to control when turning at speed especially, take damage and not stop as fast when using anchor at full speed, etc, and even galleons should be able to run circles around it.

    They could make this work they would just need to alert players taking this option that they are making a lot of concessions similar to how the sloop has a warning.

    Though the world itself and the weapon set and sandbox elements like powder kegs abd questing and npc and life in the world all should take priority over the next new ship, unless it is a ship tied into an economy/world update such as described in @Starship42 ‘s post about abandoned ships.

    My description of an ideal man of war:

    4 decks

    Top deck has the 3 sails that need 2 people to be turned but otherwise are similar to the other ships, and 2 cannons one tilted fore and one aft, on each side, still mainly facing the port and starboard.

    2nd deck has 3 cannon on each side that fire altogether at once, with long reload time that requires each to be loaded manually, and the fuse connected, with a timer similar to powder kegs. Maybe 3 seconds not 5. also requires cooperation to aim from the top deck. Minimal swivel action for these through the cannonports and almost no view at all through them. Cannonball barrels here x2 and one above deck ( they can hold so many now so no need for a lot of them)

    3rd deck cooking and sleeping quarters for the crew, cargo space, vanity and equipment chests and weapon and ammo crates. Banana/food barrel.

    4th deck map room and voyage voting table, navigation room
    Basically that also holds plank barrels and the larger than normal brig (alpha style galleon brig at the end)

    There would be multiple ladders and ways to board and even an extra ladder/harch to below decks from inside a large captains cabin below the helm similar to the galleon, possibly voyage table in here rather than near the map area.

    They could make this work.

  • @br0crastinat0r It was one of the Wilds Shipwrights I think.

  • I'm with the OP. A man o'war is a waste. Here's my alternative:

    • Create a 3 cannon four man, two sail with a lug sail or jib sail (fore sprit or aft) ship whose movement falls between a Galleon and a Brigantine.
    • Increase the galleon to a 4 cannon 5 man ship so that it falls in line with the rest ie..... Sloop 1 cannon 2 man, Brig 2 cannon 3 man, Chebret 3 cannon 4 man, Galleon 4 cannon 5 man.
      This would make the most sense for adding a new ship. That way servers don't start lagging all over the place due to user increase!
  • @becausescience1 The devs are looking into the man o war and its a great idea that what you guys say with the galleon and the sloop but it turned out fine, its rare we are talking about they make it fair

  • I can see where you’re coming from, but I think if you have a lot of friends that want to play together then it’s a great idea- and on top of that how epic would the battles look like those things would full on be like the endeavor l**o
    It’s a good thing to test for a while atleast, make it slow and then see if it’s too op

  • @alexspk13 said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    I can see where you’re coming from, but I think if you have a lot of friends that want to play together then it’s a great idea- and on top of that how epic would the battles look like those things would full on be like the endeavor l**o
    It’s a good thing to test for a while atleast, make it slow and then see if it’s too op

    OR as a fix there could be a way to have your friends join the same server for an alliance but that would be pretty op as well- I just normally end up having 6 or 7 friends that want to play at once but can’t get on with us

  • @becausescience1 I dont think its the ship being the problem, but rather 8 players...

    As a sloop player me and my friend often lose battles to galleons because 2 of their players can board our ship while 2 stay on their boat and shoot at us, meaning we get completely outnumbered and stomped...

    Now imagine how is 2 people going to win a fight against 8?
    even if 2 only come over, there are still 6 on their boat repairing and shooting...
    It would be impossible to fight against.

    Also if it is bigger than the galleon will it have 3 floors within the hull that would need to fill up? This once again making it even harder to sink for a duo sloop...

  • @becausescience1 said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    After seeing a lot of people suggest this, I have 2 reasons to support my point:

    1. It would be completely overpowered in PvP and PvE combat.
      A ship of 5 - 8 pirates, as suggested by most of the community, would dominate just about anything thrown at it. Skeleton forts? Easy. Have one pirate on the lookout, 2 on the ship's cannons, and the remaining 5 fighting the skeletons. Would take a matter of minutes to complete. A ship with 10 - 16 guns (twice the max number of players, like the galleon), would shred any ship, making Skeleton Fleets just as easy to complete.
    2. Now before you all start commenting that it would be incredibly slow, thus balancing it out, why should anyone use it if it was slow? It would be so damn slow a sloop could outrun it, which would make it useless if you're trying to travel between islands. Plus, you'd have to stay completely away from the Devil's Roar, cause your size and speed would make you an easy target for an erupting volcano.

    Now I'm not saying that it's a bad idea in general, but having it as a regular open ship type wouldn't work. On the other hand, there are still ways to implement a Man-of-War. E.g. as a kind of boss skeleton ship. It would be incredibly challenging to defeat but the rewards would definitely be worth. Also I used way too many "woulds" in this post.

    1. The crew size would be 5-6 players, they increase in 1-2 increments, they are not going to put in the ship with 8 players in the crew and you can already technically have a 8 player crew already if you are in an alliance that is working well together for the session.
    2. The speed of it would be higher than the sloop but less than a galleon to me due to the size of it, I would be using it when I want to crew up with more than 4 for a session especially in a Grind Fleet session.
    3. As for the cannons it will only be 6 cannons max.

    As for a skeleton ship version I am also for this just like it is in black flag where the main target is a man'o'war and the smaller galleons are the preludes to it for the skeleton ship battles as they are at the moment. There should be the smaller skeleton sloops and brigantines (not sure of the latter at the moment until they release them) as the ones that are mixed in with the player ships as the roaming ones along side the galleon types.

    This will allow a little more variety and less need to have 4-6 waves of the exact same ship that right now is the galleon type.

    i.e waves 1-3 are the sloops and brigantines, waves 4-5 are the galleons and the last is the man'o'war and the chance for a galleon in the fight.

  • @chewywarden said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    @becausescience1 I dont think its the ship being the problem, but rather 8 players...

    As a sloop player me and my friend often lose battles to galleons because 2 of their players can board our ship while 2 stay on their boat and shoot at us, meaning we get completely outnumbered and stomped...

    Now imagine how is 2 people going to win a fight against 8?
    even if 2 only come over, there are still 6 on their boat repairing and shooting...
    It would be impossible to fight against.

    Also if it is bigger than the galleon will it have 3 floors within the hull that would need to fill up? This once again making it even harder to sink for a duo sloop...

    Stock up on ballast balls, put some holes then use those ballast balls to speed up the water influx into the ship.

  • @becausescience1 rare could make it slower than a galleon mate and then it could work and it would only have five crew members

  • How about this. If the Manowar releases with 6-8 players then put 4 rowing seats (two on each side) in the mid deck that will need to be used for the ship to make quicker turns, sail into the wind and just overall increase speed say in a chase? This will help inhibit multiple players from launching and boarding opponets in a battle thus giving the opposition a fighting chance to at least escape. Killing the rowers would be almost as important as dropping the anchor. Thoughts?

  • honestly most of the people in sea of thieves suck anyways usually in in a one person sloop and a galleon chases me I kill all of them and just beach them until they sink

  • @chewywarden said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    @becausescience1 I dont think its the ship being the problem, but rather 8 players...

    As a sloop player me and my friend often lose battles to galleons because 2 of their players can board our ship while 2 stay on their boat and shoot at us, meaning we get completely outnumbered and stomped...

    Now imagine how is 2 people going to win a fight against 8?
    even if 2 only come over, there are still 6 on their boat repairing and shooting...
    It would be impossible to fight against.

    Also if it is bigger than the galleon will it have 3 floors within the hull that would need to fill up? This once again making it even harder to sink for a duo sloop...

    Not that im for a 8 man ship. But what u are saying is part of good or bad tactics/playing.

    I mean sloop can out corner a gally. If u know how u can shoot them while they are NOT able to fire upon u.
    If they decide to board u, make sure u hold your ladders. Dont even let them get on your ship.
    Yes if they are good enough to launch over onto your ship than its killing time! But that means you are facing a good and challenging crew.

    As a solo sloop or duo brigger i can tell u that its all about tactics. Know what your are doing. Read the wind like a sailor :)

  • @becausescience1 Even if it is completely unbalanced and horrible I still want one lol. And the funny thing is I doubt I will ever use it.

    I just want to be that crazy guy who tries to take on a Man o War with his solo sloop! Just because ya know lol

  • @knifelife said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    @becausescience1 Even if it is completely unbalanced and horrible I still want one lol. And the funny thing is I doubt I will ever use it.

    I just want to be that crazy guy who tries to take on a Man o War with his solo sloop! Just because ya know lol

    Lol there are people who can do it im sure. If i can solo kill a galleon and wipe them enough times to keep and hide all their valuable treasure on an island, before people stopped respawning in the water at mermaids, i think it can be done lol...

    @Crude-JC-gamer still has nightmares and is in denial of that day.... lol

    After i put a gp keg behind a rock in the perfect spot on the beach near their mermaid and floating treasure pile, and killed 2 with it after luring them into the trap... best moments for me solo in SoT lol.

    A man of war would be even more challenging and fun and i would love to see what a stronghold barrel would do to one. Lol.

  • Agree to the OP and there are a lot of other popular ideas i really dont like.
    Ice Theme, Arena Mode :-P and whatnot ^^

  • @th3xr34p3r Still doesnt help the fact they could have 4 people repairing and 4 people firing back/steering/attacking you...

  • @chewywarden said in Unpopular Opinion: Adding a Man-of-War Ship Type is a Terrible Idea:

    @th3xr34p3r Still doesnt help the fact they could have 4 people repairing and 4 people firing back/steering/attacking you...

    Refer to my other reply on the ship having a max of 6 not 8.

    1 on helm
    1 on front and middle sails
    1-2 on cannons
    1 shooting over to scout and keep the enemy busy
    1 on repairs

  • Personally i'd much rather boost the galleon crew size to six, make the brig 4, and maybe it possible for the sloop to have 3 (thus giving a use for its brig).

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