I miss the days when the only way to watch someone playing video games was to go to their house and watch. Streaming is stupid. If you're going to put yourself out there - on the INTERNET - you can't get mad when people exploit or bother you. That's the world we live in.
What can be done to stop stream sniping?
I have never understood two things regarding this situation:
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Why someone broadcasting their position in a game is shocked when someone takes advantage of that.
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Why people think going after a streamer is going to do anything whatsoever.
I played Rust with a streamer... if you think this game is hard versus a stream sniper I feel sorry for you.
Not saying that it does not happen, but in this game it is such a non-factor compared to other games where all you need to know is what server the streamer is on...
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Stream sniping isn't any different than modding, and should be given the same zero-tolerance approach. Doesn't matter if you're using software to see through walls, or a streaming service to see your oponent's screen; you're purposefully seeking & utilizing information that is not supposed to be available to you.
And no, streamer's don't deserve it for putting themselves out there. What an idiotic and small-minded thing to say.
Would you be ok with someone who sits around in a restaurant or bar, stealing the tips left on the tables? Surely you would, since the waitstaff should know better than to allow their customers to leave the money out in the open like that.
How about that creep on the bus, sticking his phone under the seat to get upskirt pictures? You're cool with him, right? Since the women wearing those skirts are practically asking for it, knowing what kind of creeps are out there.
It doesn't matter if they're the most entertaining person in the world. An [Mod edited] is still an [Mod edited], and that will never be ANYONE'S fault except the [Mod edited].When's the last time being told "Shoulda known better" helped YOU?
That's right, it didn't. Because it's not a very helpful thing to say.@fenderbendur said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
I miss the days when the only way to watch someone playing video games was to go to their house and watch. Streaming is stupid. If you're going to put yourself out there - on the INTERNET - you can't get mad when people exploit or bother you. That's the world we live in.
I don't think streaming is "stupid." But it does inherently come with risk. You can't live-stream an online multiplayer game (only available for public sessions), and be mad that someone used your stream against you. If you're not capable of overcoming stream snipers, then there are plenty of good suggestions in this thread already.
I could see it maybe a problem in the Arena but I don't see how it can be a big problem in SoT. To stream snipe, I have to find a streamer, and load into the game and then go to the area they are in to see if they are there, if not, I have to do it all over again. It's not like I can pick my server, so how is this a huge problem?
This reminds of my starcraft days, I was excellent at the game and good at recon, I played so well I was often called a cheater (which is a huge compliment). Is this the new thing now, you get out played and assume someone is stream sniping you?
Hmmmm. OK, couple of things. First, part of the reason behind stream sniping is the fact that many streamers focus on PvP and brag about their PvP prowess. So naturally others want to gain fame by showing how they can best these people that boast so much about how great they are and do it before audiences.
I know, I know, not all streamers are this way, but many of them are.
Several weeks ago, maybe a week or so after FS came out, my normal crew and I were out sailing doing an athena run. As I have said many times, we don't go out looking for PvP, but don't do much to avoid it either. We had just finished selling the spoils we had gained so far as we moved from the south end of the map to the north end of devils roar when we saw another brig heading our way. They had a reapers flag on so it was clear what their intent was. While our ship was not fully stocked, it was in fact stocked enough to where we didn't want to have to restock, and we only had three islands left before getting to the athena chest. So we started to sail away. They pursued so we turned to counter. We had one of our team out in the ocean trying to board their ship when one of theirs managed to get onboard our ship. After killing my first mate I was able to dispatch him. While working on getting our anchor up another pirate from their ship got on board our ship and finished me off (I should have eaten a banana or two but jumped on the anchor as I felt that was a bigger priority). This second pirate clearly had an aim bot or something as he spawn camped our ship. Our third member of our crew was stuck in the ocean without a mermaid and trying to swim to our ship. During this time, my first mate and I were getting xbox notifications from all sorts of people we had never met before, and even many friend notifications. All of them wanted to join our crew or take over our ship. Why, because the guys we were facing were streamers and people wanted to make their mark. Not wanting to give up on our ship or are Athena other than talking to a couple of them to find out why we were getting so much attention, we stayed our ground. Eventually our third player got back to the ship just as my first mate and I spawned in. Between the three of us we were finally able to kill the auto aim pirate. We fixed our ship up. And even killed the third member of the streamers crew when he tried to board us again. We got our ship moving and continued the battle. Ultimately we did end up sinking, but it was a heck of a good battle. One I am sure the streamers were happy about. But the point of this to me is, they were there for one reason. To show others and brag about how great they are. Several of the people that messaged us or wanted to join our crew were in fact people that wanted to show them up. To show them they were not as great as they bragged to be. While we did give them a good battle, they did win. I have no doubt though that their winning had less to do with skill level and more to do with the advantages they had using PC, as my entire crew are console players. And honestly, one of their pirates didn't miss a single shot. Even when I used the block/dodge I got hit. Anyways, I digress, people that are streaming are lumped in together with people like the streamers I mention above. So people want to test their mettle against them.
Because I received some very toxic messages through xbox I almost quit the game that day. People could see our gamer tags and as a result were able to message us directly. And if it were not for the fact that two of the three on my crew are PL, we probably would have accepted some of the bribes offering us free Athena voyages to give up our ship. I for one would be 100% in support of a streamer mode that suppresses my gamer tag from showing on anyones screen other than the person I am in direct contact with.
@just-dpack said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
Stream sniping isn't any different than modding, and should be given the same zero-tolerance approach. Doesn't matter if you're using software to see through walls, or a streaming service to see your oponent's screen; you're purposefully seeking & utilizing information that is not supposed to be available to you.
And no, streamer's don't deserve it for putting themselves out there. What an idiotic and small-minded thing to say.
Would you be ok with someone who sits around in a restaurant or bar, stealing the tips left on the tables? Surely you would, since the waitstaff should know better than to allow their customers to leave the money out in the open like that.
How about that creep on the bus, sticking his phone under the seat to get upskirt pictures? You're cool with him, right? Since the women wearing those skirts are practically asking for it, knowing what kind of creeps are out there.
It doesn't matter if they're the most entertaining person in the world. An [Mod edited] is still an [Mod edited], and that will never be ANYONE'S fault except the [Mod edited].When's the last time being told "Shoulda known better" helped YOU?
That's right, it didn't. Because it's not a very helpful thing to say.I agree @Just-DPack with many of your points. It should not 100% fall on the Streamer to have to protect himself from stream snipers.
I am partially still confused at how @Xultanis-Dragon still believes it is just what it is and part of the risk. Thing is it should be of interest of the devs and Rare to help the best they can.
@stormyseadog these are multiplayer games, not a day school. if you don't want to die, don't play. people getting upset about stream snipers need to visit a third world country.
@xultanis-dragon this is ridiculous. First of all in Sea of Thieves it’s almost impossible to stream snipe you can’t choose the server your put into and whoever kills the streamer is most likely just a normal person looking to have fun blowing up other people’s ships. For example ninja in his fortnite streams reports players who randomly kill him. Streamers really have no proof of these people stream sniping. It’s just the same toxic discussion on why pirates who like combat and like to blow up other people’s ships should be banned.
@lobane said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
@just-dpack said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
Stream sniping isn't any different than modding, and should be given the same zero-tolerance approach. Doesn't matter if you're using software to see through walls, or a streaming service to see your oponent's screen; you're purposefully seeking & utilizing information that is not supposed to be available to you.
And no, streamer's don't deserve it for putting themselves out there. What an idiotic and small-minded thing to say.
Would you be ok with someone who sits around in a restaurant or bar, stealing the tips left on the tables? Surely you would, since the waitstaff should know better than to allow their customers to leave the money out in the open like that.
How about that creep on the bus, sticking his phone under the seat to get upskirt pictures? You're cool with him, right? Since the women wearing those skirts are practically asking for it, knowing what kind of creeps are out there.
It doesn't matter if they're the most entertaining person in the world. An a*****e is still an a*****e, and that will never be ANYONE'S fault except the a*****e.When's the last time being told "Shoulda known better" helped YOU?
That's right, it didn't. Because it's not a very helpful thing to say.Not a great argument, but I'll humor you. No, I'm not ok with those examples...because those are examples of actual criminal acts. To be honest I'm not sure why you chose to compare them at all.
And as for stream sniping, I'm fine if they want to remove that capability completely....as long as they remove the ability for 'friends' of the streamer to also find and play along side him. Meaning making the streamer completely anonymous is the way to go. Either that, or simply stream on a delay, or offer private lobbies. Those are the only fair options.
I've seen some say that streaming anonymously won't work, because then 'friends' of the streamer wouldn't be able to find them, meet up and play along side. Sorry, but that has to go as well. You can't have 'friendly' players allowed to use streaming as a way to coordinate, but then cry foul when 'rivals' use the exact same system and information.
I'm fine with any of the suggestions. I'm by no means supporting stream sniping, just common sense and fair play.
I think true solution that would make sense to me though I could be wrong is once private servers.
My post is not to come as a crying plea it is to bring attention that there is concerns.@just-dpack said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
Stream sniping isn't any different than modding, and should be given the same zero-tolerance approach. Doesn't matter if you're using software to see through walls, or a streaming service to see your oponent's screen; you're purposefully seeking & utilizing information that is not supposed to be available to you.
And no, streamer's don't deserve it for putting themselves out there. What an idiotic and small-minded thing to say.
Would you be ok with someone who sits around in a restaurant or bar, stealing the tips left on the tables? Surely you would, since the waitstaff should know better than to allow their customers to leave the money out in the open like that.
How about that creep on the bus, sticking his phone under the seat to get upskirt pictures? You're cool with him, right? Since the women wearing those skirts are practically asking for it, knowing what kind of creeps are out there.
It doesn't matter if they're the most entertaining person in the world. An [Mod edited] is still an [Mod edited] , and that will never be ANYONE'S fault except the [Mod edited] .When's the last time being told "Shoulda known better" helped YOU?
That's right, it didn't. Because it's not a very helpful thing to say.Lets get the context right.
The restaurant scenario. The equivalent would be you taking your tips and spreading it on the sidewalk to count it then leaving it unattended for like 5 to 10 mintues. If it gets stolen is it your fault? Yes yes it is. If you tell yourself "Shoula known better" would it help? Yes yes it will because you (A) know there are [Mod edited] out there and (B) will be more careful next time.
Now the bus scenario. The equivalent would be a woman getting on the bus and she is naked by choice. Now she doesn't want people to look at her because shes naked, but she chose and wanted to be naked, is it her fault? Yes, yes it is. If she tells herself "Shoulda known better" will that help her? Yes, yes it will, because (A) know there are [Mod edited] out there and (B) will be more careful next time.
There are consequences to your own choices, just because [Mod edited] are the reason it happened does not negate your responsibility of it.
@just-dpack @Xultanis-Dragon
Ahoy mates,
I've edited your posts and the quotes because the forum rules do not allow profanity or attempts to bypass the filters.
Obscene and Vulgar Language
Swearing is not permitted on the Forums and a profanity filter is in place to block it. Attempts to bypass the profanity filter will result in a temporary ban from the Forums and a final warning. If the action continues, a permanent ban from the Forums will be issued.https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/45966/sea-of-thieves-official-forum-rules
For information the Twitch Community Guidelines specifically mention that stream sniping is a prohibited behaviour.
Cheating in Online Games
Any activity, such as cheating, hacking, botting, or tampering, that gives the account owner an unfair advantage in an online multiplayer game, is prohibited. This also includes exploiting another broadcaster's live broadcast in order to harass them in-game, such as stream sniping.@katttruewalker Thanks for this info. Regarding Twitch stance on the matter. I would love to hear if you have any more input on the matter in how we can be sure Rare is aware of it and hears the community. Even if it isn't Rare that puts their foot down. We need the Gaming community and Streaming Platforms and Game companies to also put their foot down and stand their ground and be open on the matter. It would be great for us to get a official statement from RARE on the matter. It would be also great for Game companies and Streaming Platforms and Gaming communities to also come out and join forces to put a end to Stream Sniping.
Rare are definitely aware of the concern around this issue and I am pretty sure it's been mentioned recently as something they are discussing and working on solutions for.
I think in the first instance it's wise to report the player to whatever platform you're streaming from, I've had a look but don't seem to be able to find information on mixer or youtube regarding any policies they might have, in which case it might be a good idea to approach them and ask what measures are available if this happens to a streamer.
@StormySeaDog Stream sniping does not happen nearly as much as you think it does. There is no legitimate way to prove anyone is stream sniping in the first place accurately. All you are asking for is for people to be banned without reason for ruining your stream because you got rekt. Sorry if it sounds blunt but I look at it by logistics and numbers, and number wise it doesn't happen, logistically there is no way to prove it happens.
EDIT so a good friend pointed out that I am being somewhat biased to the situation and he is correct. What you are asking for are preventative measures not a ban hammer. My bias comes from constantly being banned from FPS games because the owner of the server or his friends called me a hacker. Also got warnings from companies from online games for it also. So I do apologize for my bias. Played pro a few decades back before I injured my hands. Now I'm like you normies :)
My friend also made another good point and agrees with me on the subject though. When it comes to streaming, the reason why it falls strictly onto the person streaming is that the stream isn't part of the game. Streaming isn't a legitimate mechanic of any game, you are choosing to do it so the ways to prevent it are your responsibility. You can ask for "help" in preventative measures and if the game developer says okay thats great, but we both agree that you shouldn't ask a company to punish someone on the off chance they are stream sniping you. Personal choices and what not.
@xultanis-dragon said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
@StormySeaDog Stream sniping does not happen nearly as much as you think it does. There is no legitimate way to prove anyone is stream sniping in the first place accurately. All you are asking for is for people to be banned without reason for ruining your stream because you got rekt. Sorry if it sounds blunt but I look at it by logistics and numbers, and number wise it doesn't happen, logistically there is no way to prove it happens.
EDIT so a good friend pointed out that I am being somewhat biased to the situation and he is correct. What you are asking for are preventative measures not a ban hammer. My bias comes from constantly being banned from FPS games because the owner of the server or his friends called me a hacker. Also got warnings from companies from online games for it also. So I do apologize for my bias. Played pro a few decades back before I injured my hands. Now I'm like you normies :)
My friend also made another good point and agrees with me on the subject though. When it comes to streaming, the reason why it falls strictly onto the person streaming is that the stream isn't part of the game. Streaming isn't a legitimate mechanic of any game, you are choosing to do it so the ways to prevent it are your responsibility. You can ask for "help" in preventative measures and if the game developer says okay thats great, but we both agree that you shouldn't ask a company to punish someone on the off chance they are stream sniping you. Personal choices and what not.
That is really my main goal though might not have used the correct wording and terms.
Not forcing Rare to do anything. But I would like to hear their stance and if they are able to bring preventive measures to reduce the chances of stream sniper occurrences.
Yes the numbers are not at a crazy alarming number right now. But I do think it should be something we should be mindful of and aware of. Also if possible looking to ask Rare to provide help in preventive measures if they wish to do so. But I can say it would be great if the gaming community and game companies did make official stance and awareness of how they feel about stream sniping.
My main goal is for awareness and mindfulness and also for the game developers to help in preventative measures.
I am fully aware of the competitive mindset no worries. I have many friends that do competitive gaming for a living.@katttruewalker said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
Rare are definitely aware of the concern around this issue and I am pretty sure it's been mentioned recently as something they are discussing and working on solutions for.
I think in the first instance it's wise to report the player to whatever platform you're streaming from, I've had a look but don't seem to be able to find information on mixer or youtube regarding any policies they might have, in which case it might be a good idea to approach them and ask what measures are available if this happens to a streamer.
Thank you for your feedback
I will surely reach out to all of the platforms. It would be great for all the platforms to do a zero tolerance rule for stream snipers. But as many of have mentioned by @Xultanis-Dragon and I agree with the mention that it would be hard to truly declare that any evidence shows stream sniping that might be captured by say a streamer. As discussed on other forums and discussions we are in hopes that Rare is working on it behind doors but still think it wouldn't hurt to hear a official stance or awareness. Same thing that was done while back for when Joe mentioned that they were aware of some players breaking TOS in game and mentioned how they do a Zero Tolerance approach. Just to hear from Official written statement that they are truly aware of it and are working on it would be quite pleasing to the streamers and the many folks that don't currently stream SOT due to past harassment and suspected "stream snipers" occurrences during such streams and broadcast of their content.
@katttruewalker This is absurd. There was no attempt to bypass the filter. That WAS the filter.
Swearing is not permitted on the Forums and a profanity filter is in place to block it.
Good, then by your own logic the filer blocked my profanity. Since my post contained no profanity, there was absolutely no need for moderation. Thank you, good day.
@surveyorpete said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
If we ban Stream Sniping, are we also going to ban Streamers from attacking ordinary players going about their business; for example: trying to do a few quick cargo runs?
If Streamers want to be immune from others disrupting their activities, they should leave everyone else alone too.
HUH?
@pure-rare said in What can be done to stop stream sniping?:
Just a thought.... instead of watching people play the game why not just play the game lol
Folks do play Sea Of Thieves and some also love watching folks play the game while they are at work. They also love supporting their favorite steamers.
To be honest, aside from Rare's videos, I didn't really notice anyone else streaming SoT.
On topic, I know streaming whatever you do is the new hype these days but it comes with a risk when you play multiplayer games.
Unlike a private server where you have control over everything, in a game such as this, you can't really complain when things don't go your way. You will have fans that come to say hello, and fans that will use this advantage as a way to sink you.I understand it's annoying, but this is what happens when you broadcast your location. Viewers want to interact with the streamer, this is just the way it is.
At least in SoT it's not as easy to do, since you can't choose the server or region.Anyway, unless you are doing something competitive (like a tournament), there isn't much others can do about it. Stream sniping is not really cheating.
I mean, If I play poker with a bunch of strangers, then decide to take a picture of my cards and send it to their phones in the middle of the game, I can't be mad at them for looking at that picture.
No, video game developers and publishers should not be providing training wheels to streamers. As others have said, it's very much part of the job. If you're going to claim to be a professional gamer; start acting like one and play good enough that you don't constantly get stomped.
Streaming and getting sniped in SOT is not even remotely realistic either because server allocation is random. Odds are you're just getting worked by a vastly superior player who's better than you and honestly has no idea you ever put a live feed up to watch.
Tbh, The game is the main thing, streaming is the side thing.
Please let's not lose focus and switch it the other way around.I mean, it's great that these kids don't need to get a real job (nudge nudge, wink wink) but there is no reason to start adapting games to their wishes. Because where is that going to end?
There's seems to be a problem in defining what stream sniping is. In Rare's latest weekly update video, Joe Neate seems to use a more narrow definition than I understood – and a more narrow definition of the "problem".
I understood stream sniping to be: Watching a live stream, and then endeavoring to get onto the same server as the streamer, and hunt them down, to engage with them in some way. The motivation can be to get 15 minutes of fame, or to attack the streamer using the the stream as "intelligence" of the streamer's plans and tactics.
The narrower definition - and the one Joe seemed to be using – is watching a stream, and waiting for the streamer to encounter another ship, and then messaging that other player (via the Xbox app) in an attempt to join their crew, and get involved in the stream that way. Or abusing them if they do not permit you to join.
To me, stream sniping is the wider concept; and asking to join to someone's crew to make it happen is just one technique to make that happen. Taking your chances "server hopping" is another technique. The simplest basic solution to the latter problem is to have all crews closed by default (to both strangers and friends), once the ship is loaded into the game.
So it's OK to have some troll chase me around the map for 2hrs because I'm not streaming???
I have a lot of sympathy with this. Many streamers do so (semi) professionally. They make the game their job and stream live encouraging people to subscribe and sponsor them.
Part of the "entertainment" they may offer their viewers is to watch them PvP, by chasing down and attacking other ships. Now, I do not mind being attacked by a random player just having fun, but I get angry at the idea that my attacker is not just doing it because that is how they want to play the game today, but because it is their aim to profit financially (in real world money) from my misery. It distorts the game.
That is why I said above: If you want to show off your play sessions, record and upload for later viewing. I would not mind if live streaming were banned altogether. That would certainly make the stream sniping problem go away.
FYI for everyone following this thread -
Joe Neate (Exectutive producer on Sea of Thieves) speaking on stream sniping in today's weekly dev update:
"...that's a little bit odd and it doesn't feel quite right to me..... It feels like inviting yourself to someone else's party without being invited....... We don't believe this is right..... We are going to be doing some work to help streamers combat this."
I figure they could potentially give an option in the settings to censor other crew's names. That seems to be the simplest option that I could think of. That way people aren't able to pull gamer tags from the stream and harass the players for an invite. I think that would be fair.
Streamers should be subject to the same peril that everyone else is. They shouldn't be targeted for streaming, nor should they get special privilege.
If they get sunk or spawncamped through an organic run in on a server, so be it. But it is wrong for someone to target a play session from the outside with the sole intention of interfering or turning the spotlight on themselves.
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