[Mega Thread] Cargo Runs
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@auntrusty-mango said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@xcalypt0x To be fair, Rare said that this update had the longest time to develop then all the other updates.
But we've only been able to give feedback for 2 weeks... Except for pioneers but the devs probably focused on feedback from them that was bug related.
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To me it seems that 350 is pretty underwhelming. at least 600 with a decent rep gain. Sure you can interject other missions but they still take careful preparations and crippling yourself and are pretty time sensitive. having to either stop often to water or having water in your lower deck for plants, having to avoid fights for rum or keeping them next to your GBP's, and having to avoid rain with silks. Sure they are an easy delivery but its still time consuming and i think the values should probably be raised.
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The rewards for cargo runs need to be increased. It has nothing to do with wanting an easy mode. The value of everything outside of the Devil's Roar has already been way to watered down. It is nice to see that doing a skeleton fleet battle is actually more worth it now. Would be even better if the rewards for everything else was returned to more like it was.
Using an excuse cargo runs do not pay as much because you do not have to run down chickens is absolutely ridiculous. Cargo runs need to provide all the benefits and rewards as doing any other Merchant voyage. Better yet the rewards of all the other Merchant voyages should be also be better balanced so those voyages are not mostly discarded to find one worth it.
Cargo runs should also be able to be truly ran alongside other voyages at anytime, not just after the cargo is picked up. Makes no sense to force a pick up first.
Looks like we will finished the commendations then forget about cargo runs just like we did with the Devil's Roar and everything else before it. Unless someone finally listens to feedback and decides to finally make things better. Do not think what many players have been asking for update after update is too much to ask.
Watching the dev update today it keeps getting mentioned over and over about having more time for testing and Pioneer feedback. Why is that not already happening? This seems to have become a running excuse for all the bugs and issues like this that keep on coming.
No good fixes to the new barrel inventory system. No tweaks to the volcanoes and geysers. No improvements to rowboats. No expanded, richer Pirate Legend content. Now add underwhelming rewards and unnecessary restrictions to cargo runs to the list.
Hopefully player feedback will not continue to be a waste of time now as it appears to be. If so, many of us may just be wasting our time as well still sailing, hoping things will actually be fix and improved. That polished, truly meaningful, rewarding, and lasting content is going to be added. Maybe that is why millions have tried this game and sailed past it.
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@alekseylight Ahoy me matey!
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@auntrusty-mango said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@xcalypt0x Regardless if we have been giving feedback for just 2 weeks on this current update. This patch has been the longest in the oven to develop. It should have popped out completed and relatively few complaints besides bugs cause those just happen sometimes.
But we are experiencing the same cacophony as always. Why? This had the longest developmental time frame. Since launch. And still, it is just hobble cobbled together with hardly any type of content that people can sink their teeth in longer then a day. Regardless if we have been giving them feedback for 2 weeks on this update, they have had 6 months of constant feedback from launch, and the other temporary content drops to get a feel of what the community wants.
They have had tons and tons of great ideas and the wants and needs of the player base now for a while. Is this feedback present in this current update? Barely. Cargo Runs are the only thing I think Rare has given us in 6 months that people have actively asked for in terms of content to do, in world, in game.(not counting the cursed cannon balls and brig as those are items in the game and not so much content to the game itself) And from what I have been reading they are pretty meh.
Sadly all too true and absolutely no reason to be this way, especially at this point. Also, no excuse or reason than player feedback is not really being listened to no matter how many times a person from Rare says it is.
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@crimsontifical said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@daantjebnl There's no need to go back for loot, or even defend it if you're doing cargo runs and haven't gotten anything from your active voyage yet, I'm not saying a massive buff, but according to my crew the rep given is a tad underwhelming. Or maybe even more crates per run? ~7 for a master merchant isn't enough (I know you can stack them, but I have dreams of a true cargo vessel).
yeh a slight buff should be ok.
450 per item would do the trick i think.
900 in the roar. -
Hello again everyone,
Just a thought. It would make the game better if they designed all merchants like they did Cargo runs. So the Animal crates get delivery notes. (I dunno how they could do that for Gunpowder Barrels). But yeah, All crates should have a delivery note on them. It would add more depth to our PVP.
This would make so much more sense because there is no incentive to go after people doing Merchant Alliance right now.
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@AUntrusty-Mango @x-crowheart-x said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@auntrusty-mango said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@xcalypt0x Regardless if we have been giving feedback for just 2 weeks on this current update. This patch has been the longest in the oven to develop. It should have popped out completed and relatively few complaints besides bugs cause those just happen sometimes.
But we are experiencing the same cacophony as always. Why? This had the longest developmental time frame. Since launch. And still, it is just hobble cobbled together with hardly any type of content that people can sink their teeth in longer then a day. Regardless if we have been giving them feedback for 2 weeks on this update, they have had 6 months of constant feedback from launch, and the other temporary content drops to get a feel of what the community wants.
They have had tons and tons of great ideas and the wants and needs of the player base now for a while. Is this feedback present in this current update? Barely. Cargo Runs are the only thing I think Rare has given us in 6 months that people have actively asked for in terms of content to do, in world, in game.(not counting the cursed cannon balls and brig as those are items in the game and not so much content to the game itself) And from what I have been reading they are pretty meh.
Sadly all too true and absolutely no reason to be this way, especially at this point. Also, no excuse or reason than player feedback is not really being listened to no matter how many times a person from Rare says it is.
What are you even talking about? They scrapped all of their post launch plans and made an entire new road-map based on player feedback.
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Our posts were talking about feedback since scrapping everything. Feedback as the content has been rolled out. Scrapping everything was already a bad sign starting out the gate just like the initial state of the game. The roadmap so far has been rushed lukewarm content with lots of bugs and issues. Bugs and issues that players keep providing feedback on in all these mega threads that go unresolved.
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I'm just gonna keep this short.
- NPC pick-ups are nice
- baby sitting loot is not nice.
- They are not worth nearly enough for our trouble.
- IMO they should take the place of the standard merchant missions, since they overlap so much, and give players the option to buy a bunch of any type of cages and turn the animals in to anyone for a reasonable amount at any time.
- Bottles are WAY to delicate and we need a way to better understand what does dmg them and what doesn't.
- The NPC cargo pickups should be a "crate" or something pickup and add a whole new flare to the game by adding a high risk high value loot. Instead just being a lame loot pick-up and drop off, how about instead you instroduce a new faction. This new faction would be... get this... PIRATES! I know that's a strange thing to have in a game called "sea of thieves", but you could have info on these new cargo runs "leaked" to the pirate/thieves faction, and players can get these "heist" style missions to intercept the cargo runs mid journey and steal the loot(which is why it would need to be non destructible cargo).
Well that's my 6 cents. My biggest piece of advice would be for Rare to stop wasting money on fancy sets and expensive actors in their commercials and use that money on the actual game. Also, maybe hire a competent game-play designer. No offense to whoever is doing it now, but they are really dropping the ball on this games game-play.
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@x-crowheart-x I agree, there have been a ton of unresolved bugs. That's why they are changing their release model.
I disagree that scrapping their plans for an MTX store to focus on delivering updates that players wanted to see was a bad idea. I also disagree with @AUntrusty-Mango's statement that the only thing that we have asked for and gotten in 6 months is cargo runs. We were given a new ship type (the highest ranked request in @ShootHere4EXP's poll if I remember correctly), AI ships (which they said they weren't going to do but changed their mind based on player feedback).
Trust me, I don't defend every move they make. I was very critical of Forsaken Shores for example, but I don't think you two are making entirely accurate statements.
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@xcalypt0x said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@x-crowheart-x I agree, there have been a ton of unresolved bugs. That's why they are changing their release model.
I disagree that scrapping their plans for an MTX store to focus on delivering updates that players wanted to see was a bad idea. I also disagree with @AUntrusty-Mango's statement that the only thing that we have asked for and gotten in 6 months is cargo runs. We were given a new ship type (the highest ranked request in @ShootHere4EXP's poll if I remember correctly), AI ships (which they said they weren't going to do but changed their mind based on player feedback).
Trust me, I don't defend every move they make. I was very critical of Forsaken Shores for example, but I don't think you two are making entirely accurate statements.
I said a bad sign, not bad idea. I whole heartedly agree about delaying, if not totally preventing microtransactions. Usually never a good thing for the health of any game.
It was a bad sign that they did not have their finger on the pulse of what the player base truly wanted and was expecting when Sea of Thieves was released. Proper planning, testing, and listening to the community should have enabled them to release a game without scrapping everything they had planned to move forward with at the launch of a game they had been working on for a long time.
It is a good thing that they decided to not sail full steam ahead with their original plans. It is a bad thing that we keep sailing forward regardless of the continuing and growing issues, and as stated lack of continuing to listen to ongoing feedback. They keep saying they are changing things, but nothing is changing. Their actions and words indicate that they hear everyone, however that is not the same as listening as their lack of actions indicate.
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@x-crowheart-x Okay I see. So your ideal vision would be that instead of planning a year-ish roadmap at a time they take it one update at a time and gauge player interest in the next update?
If that is the case, I could get behind that idea. The only issue is dev time. Planning out a wider span of time gives the individual teams more time to develop their stuff.
What would be your solution?
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@xcalypt0x said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@x-crowheart-x Okay I see. So your ideal vision would be that instead of planning a year-ish roadmap at a time they take it one update at a time and gauge player interest in the next update?
If that is the case, I could get behind that idea. The only issue is dev time. Planning out a wider span of time gives the individual teams more time to develop their stuff.
What would be your solution?
I never said I disagree with a having roadmap. Having a long term plan is a good thing and necessary. However, the stops along the way to the final destination need to get better. Otherwise the trip will not be worth it in all the ways that really matter. They did not have a lot of choice after setting the course they unfortunately put themselves on. I can see that.
Forsaken Shores should be a short stay at rest stop in order to check the map now and make sure the road ahead is a better one than we have been on so far. All the growing potholes along the way also need to be patched and not left as speedbumps for everyone to keep sailing over.
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Overall, I think cargo runs are a really cool addition (good job!). Here is my current feedback after playing for a few hours.
Cargo Value
- It's cool that I always know the exact gold amount cargo is going to give me. 350g for pristine condition, always. You guys should do a pass on other in-game treasure values and make them more consistent and less random across the board (a Captain's chest could be 700-900g, instead of 600-1000g, for example). It just feels better.
- Bump up the reward. Transporting these can be a bit tricky/tedious, so 450-500g per crate instead of 350g would be nice. For this significant increase in reward value, do NOT allow players to go on another voyage while on a cargo run. The cargo run voyage should remain on the table after you pick up all the crates. This also makes it so Cargo Runs count towards your total Merchant Alliance voyages. It is really, really weird that you do not get voyage credit for completing these even though you slap them on the voyage table and they're called "voyages." Finally, because cargo is so fragile, upping the value makes it more worthwhile to steal. Right now, I have zero desire to steal cargo--it's too much effort.
Balance
- Keep the number of cargo crates more consistent. I am level 50, and most of the time I get 8 cargo crates, but sometimes I get 5? This seems pointless, because I won't do 5, I will just "reroll" the voyage until I get 8. You guys also need to do a pass on all in-game voyage types with this philosophy in mind. More consistency, less randomness. Again, it just feels better.
- I'm not sure how the logic works, but if you pick up your cargo at an Outpost, you should have to deliver it to an Island. If you pick it up from an Island, the possible dropoffs should be Seaposts or Outposts. This is to ensure a balanced voyage experience and to prevent people from "re-rolling" voyages until they get what they want, because right now I am ONLY taking cargo runs where I pick-up from the Outpost I'm on.
Devil's Roar
- Devil's Roar cargo runs should not incorporate non Devil's Roar islands. I think I got 1 voyage where I picked up from Morrow's Peak and delivered to Kraken's Fall. This was way too easy and did not feel dangerous enough.
- I don't think Devil's Roar cargo needs to be more fragile. This is not consistent with other voyage types. Gold Hoarder treasure does not take longer to dig up, and Order of Souls skeletons are not harder. The difficulty should come from the region itself.
Quality of Life
- Sometimes, I want to catch animals and not do cargo runs, and vice versa. You should ALWAYS be able to pick the voyage type that you want! Implement a "shuffle voyage stock" button that changes the current voyage stock. You can also put this in the Pirate Legend hideout, so players can always choose between Devil's Roar or standard Legendary Voyages.
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@katttruewalker I tried a cargo run today and I like it a lot, but the amount of gold should be increased a bit...let's say about 500 instead of 350...so when you have 8 things to deliver you get 4000 gold...that's about 3 golden chickens, even less but ok
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Personally I love the cargo runs. I think they add a nice variety to the game and I think the reward is balanced. Also the ability to stack them is awesome you can make a lot of gold if you lay down a new cargo run right when you pick up your current crates. You boat fills up pretty quick and at 350 a piece it’s good money for picking up and dropping off. The one problem or maybe bug I noticed was with the plants. I placed a bunch In the bottom of my boat with water and most of them were fine but two became parched. I noticed that the two that were damaged were partially clipped inside a barrel and the clothing chest maybe causing them to not register the water I. The boat? Great work rare keep it up!
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@schwammlgott If you got the same money of gold for delieving golden animals why would you ever do those again? With Cargo Runs it's just going from point A to point B, with fetch quest its' going to A to B to C and Sometimes D and on, not to mention you have to hunt down the animals.
I think cargo runs are great for those who don't feel like hunting for animals, but I don't think it should be better than that since the effort for them is so much less.
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Did a couple cargo runs last night and found them very relaxing. I was a bit surprised about the 350 gold per item, thought it would be higher but I honestly don't mind the 350. I think the difference is that with Cargo Runs you have a consistent amount of gold versus the randomized values of other loot.
Really enjoying the update and especially the NPCs on the various islands. Finally starting to feel like the world is alive beyond just the outposts.
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In summary:
Little risk, little payback.
Devils Roar pays twice, but can take twice as long, and has twice the chance of damage (geysers, volcano debri, etc).
Chickens make alot more money. So the best thing to do is to start 1 or 2 cargo runs and then add a chicken voyage on top of that and grab chickens when you deliver the cargo. Which means DR cargo runs pay less since you cannot do animal runs there, and do not really have enough time for GH or OoS before bad stuff happens.
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Thank you for listening to us and making cargo runs a thing! I remember seeing suggestion threads for this a while back and its good to see that you guys are listening!
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Actual feedback: There have been some complaints about the payout. I think thats a fair concern, with respect to gold/hour being lower than regular Merchant voyages.
However, I can understand that there must be a risk/reward balance, and currently the cargo runs are not really that much of a risk.
Heres an idea: Make the cargo runs more demanding and increase the payout. Alternatively, you could have three types of cargo runs, regular, devils and legendary; all using the same infrastructure. -
A theoretical model for the legendary cargo run:
- First available at level 35 with merchant alliance.
- The cargo ship becomes a target on the map. This can be achieved akin to the 'reapers mark' flag. If that proves exessive, clues to ongoing cargo runs can be found in message in bottles (read: message in barrels). Thusly, other crews can be made aware of where the cargo is to be delivered.
- Crates must be collected from multiple locations. Lets say, five different islands. One of these is always in the DR region.
- All locations can be revealed initially, or each can be revealed sequentially when you reach the next collect point.
- Legendary cargo runs are still time-sensitive. Very time sensitive.
- Payout & EXP only after delivering ALL crates to NPC. Calculated based on delivery condition of items, +775% for Legendary CRs. (Placeholder percentage)
- NPC could also recieve regular MA goods, i.e. rare tea or banana crates for an added bonus.
- Time runs out and no crates delivered: Recieve zero gold and zero EXP.
- Time runs out and partial delivery: Regular price and EXP per item (as with non-legendary cargo runs. No multiplier).
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SO, 50 points into the commendations for Cargo Runs, I see that fun and contributions this brings to the game and can't help think this should have been part of the Merchants Alliance all along. It's not innovative but more an extension of the Merch runs. From what I see, its 350 gold per normie and 700 gold per roarie item. You can make a lot of cash. I think if I was still grinding Pirate Legend and Merch rep than this is welcome. As a pirate Legend, after day 1, yeah, nice... cool mechanic, what else you have?
Since we can earn doubloons anytime, and I have enough to by time limited items, there's really no rush or reason to grind the 100 doubloon commendations until something more substantial comes out.
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@sprungnickel427 said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
SO, 50 points into the commendations for Cargo Runs, I see that fun and contributions this brings to the game and can't help think this should have been part of the Merchants Alliance all along. It's not innovative but more an extension of the Merch runs. From what I see, its 350 gold per normie and 700 gold per roarie item. You can make a lot of cash. I think if I was still grinding Pirate Legend and Merch rep than this is welcome. As a pirate Legend, after day 1, yeah, nice... cool mechanic, what else you have?
'Ahem', See my post.
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I feel like there are some things missing in this. the cargo that players get now, the Rum bottles, plants and Silk crates feels like they are the cargo run's versions of the white chickens, castaway chests and foul skulls. As in, low reputation loot.
I think there should be more types of cargo that can be sold for more gold, like Tea, Porcelain and more. All possibly using some variations of the same mechanic that the other cargo items use: like Tea must not get wet, Porcelain will shatter if you are not carefull with them and so on.
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Anyone else hating on the plant cargo run? Horrible visibility while carrying the plants. I read a post where the guy said Rare is going out of their way to make merchant voyages annoying and that rang very true with the plants. I don’t enjoy picking up the plants. I don’t enjoy carrying the plants. What’s the point of a game I’d it is not enjoyable? Every time I pickup a plant I cringe, I just can’t wait to put it down and get rid of it. It just doesn’t feel right and I hope they change it. Rare, why did you kill the visibility - to irritate us? To make us uncomfortable playing the game? If you hoped to add a small amount of challenge to carrying the plants you succeeded - but in doing so you made the activity irritating and not fun. Please focus on fun, please.
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I find it inappropriate that NPCs stand on the beach waiting for something to be delivered. They're too static. A volcano erupts - the NPC stands still. A battle against skeletons rages around them - they stand still next to it. This is, technically, very poor.
Either they should not stand where such events take place, or act in the game as appropriate. Take cover in a shelter during a volcanic eruption. Take cover and defend yourself in battle. Interact without significantly changing the game.
If, for example, the skeletons would also attack the NPC figure, it should fight back, and it could die. The player would have the additional task of protecting the NPC figure and keeping it alive. If the NPC figure died, it would only be reinserted in the game after a while - you would have to abort and return.
The same could happen for volcanoes. In case of an eruption the stand would be empty, the character would hide and only after an eruption go back to the shop to trade.
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@spyderhat sagte in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
Anyone else hating on the plant cargo run? Horrible visibility while carrying the plants. I read a post where the guy said Rare is going out of their way to make merchant voyages annoying and that rang very true with the plants. I don’t enjoy picking up the plants. I don’t enjoy carrying the plants.
I think it is funny, like 10000 grogs.
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It's nice having a bit more variety in MA, but I don't find them to be worth it in the least. Once I finish commendations I will never pickup another one of these voyages. Even if they were worth 500-1000 instead of 350-700 I still wouldn't find them worth it. They are not bad in message in a bottle form when they are for an island that I happen to need to go to anyway, but pointless as actual voyages for me. You have to go pickup the cargo before you can lay down another voyage that will probably take you in the opposite direction. They are time sensitive, so you will need to prioritize them, and if you need to prioritize them and they take you away from where you need to go then you may as well just focus on doing cargo runs.
That being said, they probably synergize well with normal MA voyages since you can pickup animals wherever you happen to be going (obviously not in DR where I like to spend all my time). However you would still need to go pickup the cargo then put down another MA voyage and go back for cages. Unless you put down several MA voyages and stocked up on cages first. I always found MA agonizing, so my opinions may not be the best XD. I sat at 50/50/39 (39 solely from forts) for a couple months until doubloons came along.
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The cargo runs are Ok, but I was expecting to see some variability in the value of the different crates - much like how each of the chests, skulls, and animals can be ranked according to their value.
I completed a few cargo runs last night and it seems to me that the plants are the easiest to transport, and the rum is the second easiest to transport (although it's not entirely clear why they break sometimes). The silks I find to be the most difficult to transport because you either have to find a wharf on the island and dock within jumping distance, or search for a rowboat to keep on hand and intact. If it's raining then you have to wait it out. For this reason, I would expect the silks to be worth more than the rum, which would be worth more than the plants.
All in all, I'm glad to see some additional voyage options for the merchant, but it would be nice to have the excitement of transporting an extra valuable crate. Kind of like how the gold and black chickens are sought after in the other voyage quests.
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@auntrusty-mango sagte in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
@xcalypt0x I did mention that in the parenthesis. I don't consider that more in game content. Those are more like tools to do the content with. I don't log on to play Brigantine. I log on to sail my brig to go do the content. The ships and any kind of special ammo they give you are the tools in which to undergo the content. Not exactly it being the content itself.
So in terms of actual longevity content that there is to do in the world, they have given us Cargo Runs and the AI ships. Both which have received pretty "meh" feedback so far. The AI ships being the worst of the two on the complaint scale.
Sry but I’m loving the AI Ships, I had so much fun during CS and from time to time I’m searching an group to defeat them :)
And a Cargo Run Commendation Question: Is every Piece counting for Commendation so you get 7 plants from one npc and when you deliver it your Commendation is like 7/50 or is it counting 1/50 when you complete the WHOLE Cargo Run?
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Question on the CR that isn't really clear to me.
When you get the quest you have no timer for delivery. Is the due date for the delivery determined when you vote on the quest or when you pick up the cargo?
I assume it's the latter but I'd hate to be on a DR Athena and leave that til the last and have one day to deliver because time was running since the quest was voted in.
Anyone?
Also I love the idea that stealing these items require a pirate to use strategy as sinking your ship would destroy most profits. If the cargo was worth more than a lot of chests though it would make for more interesting interactions at sea. People negotiating before firing etc. And even some surrenders rather than fighting to the death all the time.
Say pristine rum bottles went for 2000g each and broken ones were 50g If someone was killing you for loot they would think twice before pumping your hull full of iron.
This would mean less items per quest but man would it be a great risk/reward
As it stands no one would try and steal your cargo because it's too fragile for what it's worth so why bother? Sink you and see if any chests or skulls float, and leave the rest.
Cargo Runs could be a lot more immersive for sure.
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do anyone else have any ideas for other possible items that could be used in the cargo runs?
i already mentioned two:
@dark-henrik-22 said in [Mega Thread] Cargo Runs:
I feel like there are some things missing in this. the cargo that players get now, the Rum bottles, plants and Silk crates feels like they are the cargo run's versions of the white chickens, castaway chests and foul skulls. As in, low reputation loot.
I think there should be more types of cargo that can be sold for more gold, like Tea, Porcelain and more. All possibly using some variations of the same mechanic that the other cargo items use: like Tea must not get wet, Porcelain will shatter if you are not carefull with them and so on.
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@katttruewalker i love the update. The cargo runs are fun to play. They add new mechanics to the missions. You need to focus on what you are delivering. It met my expectations.
I can't wait for new mechanics for OoS and chests missions.
Maybe you could capture a prisoner and feed him with bananas to make him stay alive until you deliver him to OoS Shaman?