Discussion: Egos are getting annoying

  • Vyx
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    So first off, let me say that this is one of my favorite games. There is something to be said for being completely in the zone, grinding out your factions, and then relentlessly destroying those that try to take your loot. However, I am starting to notice a caveat. Most of the people that are playing for PVP have an enormous ego and if you bruise it, you might as well turn in what you have and then hop to a new server because they will be RIGHT back and harass you, making it impossible to continue with your athena voyage.

    If this were simply every once in a while, that would be find. However, I am starting to notice a trend. As far as I can tell, if you do NOT want to PvP and, instead, just want to work primarily on your factions, your best bet is to just roll over. Hear me out: If someone comes at you while you are working on, say, OoS. You outplay them, they sink, they get mad, you continue working on your voyage. In most cases, these PvP focused players will be right back to "prove they are better". So you sink them again and again and again, soaking up all of the time you have to play. It's frustrating, despite how fun PvP is.

    So here is the discussion: What do you guys do when you encounter PvP only players? Do you sink them repeatedly until you can turn in your loot? Do you roll over and let them sink you so that they don't get bruised and harass you for the rest of your time on the server?

    I love the way the game is currently laid out but there has to be something that can be done, either through tactics or changes to the game. Originally, I thought it would be cool if after you were sunk, it migrated you to a new server, but that would screw up things with alliances and whatnot. Basically, I'm just curious to read what everyone else thinks could possibly help with this harassment issue. As it stands, when you get a crew with a grudge, it is just WAY too much of a waste of time to fight when I really want to grind out athena voyages.

    Thanks for taking the time to read and discuss.

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  • KnifeLife
    Commander
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    @vyx Maybe if you get sunk twice by the same boat consecutively then it could. But I do think the person should have some chance to take back what was stolen from them.

    I do get what you mean though I have had it a few times where people attack me and my crew and we sink them in defence and they turn extremely toxic over it.

  • Look Behind You
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    Moderator
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    Deckhand

    @vyx make them follow me....despite not having anything of worth. I had nothing on board last night, someone wanted my nothing, so I made them work for it :D

    Long story short, 30+ mins later and after traversing the map, they ran into a (very large and visible) rock, having never got close to sinking/boarding me and taking my nothing.

    I even had Meg attack me on 2 separate occasions, yet my empty solo sloop sailed on.

    Apparently, Legend doesn't = good at sailing

    #GreasedUpNubGuy :D

  • D Jaguar
    Captain
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    @vyx most are just bored.
    When the game first released, the pvp was partly for your stuff. Now I think it is for the challenge. The skeletons don't adapt like a real player.
    They may continue to fight you because you became the challenge.

    I didn't used to be into pvp, but with cursed cannonballs I have a want to solo sloop and pound galleons and brigantines just for the laughs. I haven't been on in a while, so I don't do it. But it is a thought that crosses my mind.

  • MarsMayflower
    Captain
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    welcome to online multiplayer gaming? pretty much par for the course.

  • NoFears Fun
    Master
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    If you sink my ship, we will try again. But if you sink us twice, then we will salute you as the better player (at least for that day) and move on. Sadly there are some that don't look at is this way, and believe that everyone on the sea wants PvP, especially if you fight back. The only reason we would come back though, to prove it wasn't a fluke, and if you beat us, we are actually coming back out of respect for you. You are a legit challenge and lets face it, we all love a good challenge. But we don't want to ruin your gaming session, so twice is enough. Hopefully others believe that is fair.

    EDIT; if you sink us twice and we come back, it is to have a grog and to officially solute you. Probably even help you finish off those skellies you are working on or whatever it is. Just in case we are ever in the same server....

  • Vyx
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    Love the replies so far! And I agree with all of you. It is par for the course, most of these people aren't inherently toxic (Just bored with nothing new to do in the game), they should have a chance to reclaim their loot, and running away by tacking your ship against the wind is always an option. My main point of frustration is that when these situations arise, it just wastes your time and nobody gains anything. lol Even if you cut tail and run, it still pulls you away from your voyage and, in some cases, makes it impossible to resume your grind. It might not be as bad if there was SOME sort of reward for sinking harassers over and over but, as we all know, these aggro'd PvP fanatics never have any good loot, if any. Haha

    I'm so happy that we can still find entertainment even after pirate legend, but holy c**p... lol Sometimes I want to get on purely for PvP and in those instances, I don't even bat an eye at these players that are full aggro. It's only when I'm trying to work on the progression systems that it really gets on my nerves because I don't get to dictate when I can do my own stuff. All too frequently that choice is made for me. I start out doing my voyage and someone decides for me that I am only going to get to PvP for the rest of my time on that server.

    I definitely think the idea mentioned above could work. Sinking the same crew two or more times, within a certain amount of time, sends that crew to a new server with the migration text that we currently get COULD work. Then again, how would such a system handle alliances without impeding on others' preferred activities?

    Any other ideas?

    Edit: And to those that DO, in fact, only return once or twice in good fun, I salute you. Unfortunately, this has only ever happened to me twice. Most generally, they have no loot, no manners, and don't even use game chat except to inform me about how I suck at the game and how they will be back to put me in my place. It was funny at first but now it's just annoying and kind of sad.

  • D Jaguar
    Captain
    Insider

    @vyx there was a popular thread months ago about this, but it used to happen a lot af Skull forts. I argued in support of those who continue to come back. Attrition is a different form of skill.

    The danger of other players is what makes the game exciting.

  • Vyx
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    @d-jaguar I agree but it is different with Skull Forts. If I am at a Skull Fort, I am choosing PvP. If I get tired of people returning, I can just leave and do something else. However, with the type of harassment I am talking about, there is no deciding to go and do something else. You get harassed until you abandon your athena and go to a different server. Also, there is reward for fighting over a Skull Fort; there is no reward for continually sinking kids that can't take a hint. They may not be able to sink me, but they can tie up my time so that I can't do anything else, and they know it. So I truly believe this to be a different kind of monster.

  • Vyx
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    @d-jaguar said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    The danger of other players is what makes the game exciting.

    To be clear: I agree with this. The slight paranoia is what makes a boring voyage with no encounters still exciting. But this is a growing game. Constantly changing and growing to be better and better. I believe if there was a way to limit this type of harassment or tie in rewards for using force against harassers, then the game could become even better yet again.

  • nikjw
    Marauder
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    So, i find this interesting. Sometimes if i get sunk i will go back for a second go. The main reason for this is im rubbish at pvp and its good practice.

    I think, however, there is a need to be adult and respectful. For example, a brig sunk me and i went back for a second bite of the pie. When I arrived and attacked she said 'please stop shooting, i dont want his' and her voice sounded fed up so i raised my cannons to indicate cease fire, gave her a wave and sailed off.

    I did this because it was clear that this was not what she wanted to do. And whilst im all up for blowing holes in your ship it is only a game and any engagement we have should be a mutually fun experience, if not then i see it as akin to bullying which aint my cup of tea

  • D Jaguar
    Captain
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    @vyx maybe we have gone back to how the game was when it first came out? The influx of new players may have brought on the pvp for no reason.

    Edit: Also as there are more legends, more athenas voyages are at sea. It may promote pvp as there is an assumption that they are carrying loads of goodies.

    With forsaken shores and the new quests, will we find pirates camping outside the shores to steal the goods?

  • SpecialAdvisor
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    Boatswain
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    We've run into variations of this as well, probably more lately due to the nature of the Cursed Crews event. As to our course of action...it depends on many things such as the type of voyage we are doing, time spent at the time of the encounter, amount of loot on board, or simply the mood of our crew. One instance last week was bordering on ludicrous. Once, twice I am not surprised and it can be fun if there is no shouting of insults about my lineage, etc. but this particular vessel must have come back a half a dozen times. After awhile it's just boring and a waste of my time...personally. I even mentioned to one of our crew after the 3/4th sally that it was tedious as there is no real gain or benefit to me and it just felt like nothing but a waste of resources. In that case we were helping another allied vessel get their commendations...after settling them up we finally just switched to a different server.

  • John Doyle New
    Castaway
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    @vyx I'm never the type to keep at a crew if they've beaten me fairly, and vise versa unless I had a large hoard onboard with hopes of reclaiming you probably wouldn't see me in the server again.

    Though if you're ever in doubt and alone feel free to drop me an invite and I'll gladly help out, vx.

  • Vyx
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    @d-jaguar I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. And if I have loot that someone wants and they are able to take it, that's fine. My point is that I shouldn't have to roll over just to protect someone's ego, in order to keep them from flipping the troll switch. Once these players get sunk, they no longer care about loot. Not to mention, most of the time, I don't even have any loot at the point that they attack. lol

    On one hand, it makes me laugh that they would want to waste their time. However, at a certain point, they are wasting my time as well. And, to be honest, I don't want to spend hours defending against rubbish players and getting nothing done for my voyages.

    I'd also like to commend the posters that express their adult mentality. However, we all know that the issue isn't with the adults. I was just trying to avoid any kind of bashing directly towards younger players since, it's not ALL children playing the game. Just like not ALL pirate legends are good at the game.

    I am very much enjoying everyone's input.

  • Vyx
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    @specialadvisor said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    We've run into variations of this as well, probably more lately due to the nature of the Cursed Crews event. As to our course of action...it depends on many things such as the type of voyage we are doing, time spent at the time of the encounter, amount of loot on board, or simply the mood of our crew. One instance last week was bordering on ludicrous. Once, twice I am not surprised and it can be fun if there is no shouting of insults about my lineage, etc. but this particular vessel must have come back a half a dozen times. After awhile it's just boring and a waste of my time...personally. I even mentioned to one of our crew after the 3/4th sally that it was tedious as there is no real gain or benefit to me and it just felt like nothing but a waste of resources. In that case we were helping another allied vessel get their commendations...after settling them up we finally just switched to a different server.

    Yes, yes, and yes. This is precisely what I am talking about. If there is reward (Progression, Challenge, Loot), PvP is never a waste. But those are not the instances which any of us have a problem. Thanks for chiming in!

  • TinBalloon24929
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    @vyx I came across one of these players but it was different as they were a one man sloop and they were just the worst at PvP

  • Vyx
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    @tinballoon24929 said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @vyx I came across one of these players but it was different as they were a one man sloop and they were just the worst at PvP

    That definitely sounds like they were either incredibly bored or they were just waiting for their aggro'd crew members to get online. lol

  • TinBalloon24929
    Marauder
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    @vyx he defiantly wanted his castaways back

  • nikjw
    Marauder
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    @tinballoon24929 said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @vyx I came across one of these players but it was different as they were a one man sloop and they were just the worst at PvP

    That was probably me, see my earlier comments and it all adds up!

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
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    As a PvPer... when we meet someone that kills us we'll hunt them endlessly. The number of people that actually are willing to put up a fight and can are rare.

  • NunoAzuldimeter
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    Boatswain
    Founder

    @vyx erm.. I easily get salty when thing get out of my hand. :(
    I'm often looking for revenge in those cases.
    But it's worst when I'm falsely accused of something that me or My crew didn't do, then the people doesn't listen and things escalate exponentially in the Salt matter. :(
    (This seems to happens a lot with us... I don't know why.. people cannot differentiate ships or players?!)

    I can be the most pacific person but when the pepper reach my nose it's the worst.

  • D Jaguar
    Captain
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    @nunoazuldimeter I may be reading too much into it, but what is with the reference of salt and pepper?

  • Vyx
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    @dutchyankee said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    Best way to deal is to sink them and sell you treasure at an outpost. Then evaluate whether they are enough of nuisance to keep going or switch servers.

    That works perfectly fine for regular missions but when you have already sunk an hour into an Athena, there isn't much you can do to salvage it in these particular situations. But I absolutely agree and it DOES work just fine for regular voyages.

  • NunoAzuldimeter
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    Boatswain
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    @d-jaguar ahahah.
    The salt is bad for the blood pressure, the pepper is bad for the nose, make us sneeze xD

  • Vyx
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    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    As a PvPer... when we meet someone that kills us we'll hunt them endlessly. The number of people that actually are willing to put up a fight and can are rare.

    Well, if you had caught me a week or two ago, I would have given you hours of PvP Bliss. Unfortunately, the wind has been taken out of my sails, so to speak. I'm really hoping something comes from these types of discussions because I REALLY enjoy the PvP in this game. I simply want to be the one that decides if I am going to PvP for hours as opposed to just defending myself from a ship a few times. It baffled me before but now it just frustrates me. Lol

    As a father of five, my gaming time is special to me and, sometimes, very limited.

  • SurveyorPete
    Legend
    Insider

    My first thought would be that, as a general rule, if you are sunk, or scuttle during a fight, your ship should respawn as far away as possible.

    However, taken literally that would always mean the four corners of the map, and would make the only spawn points places like Sailors' Bounty, and Black Water Enclave. Also, if say you were sunk at Shark Fin camp and respawned at Old Salt Atoll, if you scuttled again immediately, you would put back at Black Water Enclave, close to where you were sunk.

    Also, during the Cursed Crews event, if you were sunk by the skeleton crews West of Smuggler's Bay, you would normally respawn there; which allowed you get back into the action in good time. Had you been put to Devil's Ridge, it would be game over.

    So, the system needs to be smarter. I would suggest:

    If you sink or scuttle, your ship respawns at least 16 grid squares away (see NOTE below), with a fair chance that it is on the very far side of the map.

    Imagine, if you sink, that the game draws a circle around that point, with a radius of 16 grid units. Then, it randomly chooses an empty island from anywhere outside that circle. Usually, this should result in your ship being placed into a different region.

    The exceptions to this rule are:

    1. If you are engaged in a battle with skeleton ships (under a ship cloud) or a skull fort (under a skull cloud) AND there are no non-allied ships in the vicinity, then you will respawn at a nearby large island. If there are any other (non-allied) player ships nearby, you spawn 16+ units away, as normal.
    2. If you scuttle or sink within 12 minutes (12 hours in game) of your last sinking/scuttling, then you will be placed at the same island as you last spawned at, or one very near it (if it is now occupied). This is to prevent players "re-scuttling", or deliberately sinking their own ship, to get themselves back closer to where they were first sunk.

    NOTE: The map is 26 grid squares wide. Even if you were at the very centre of the map, the corners are 18 grid squares away (thanks Pythagoras!), so wherever you are, there should be a possible spawn point at least 16 squares away.

  • Dooby
    Legend
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    @vyx said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    What do you guys do when you encounter PvP only players?

    Usually sink, swim around a bit, maybe wave, then get shot.

  • FlatLinerX
    Marauder
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    Just speed run it. Did some athenas alone like that even. You let them chase an empty boat while you do riddles and X. Do merch first or last. Oos is the only point where you need to handle those players.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
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    @vyx said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    As a PvPer... when we meet someone that kills us we'll hunt them endlessly. The number of people that actually are willing to put up a fight and can are rare.

    Well, if you had caught me a week or two ago, I would have given you hours of PvP Bliss. Unfortunately, the wind has been taken out of my sails, so to speak. I'm really hoping something comes from these types of discussions because I REALLY enjoy the PvP in this game. I simply want to be the one that decides if I am going to PvP for hours as opposed to just defending myself from a ship a few times. It baffled me before but now it just frustrates me. Lol

    As a father of five, my gaming time is special to me and, sometimes, very limited.

    well if your time is special don't play a game that has PvP and PvE as two major components... the whole point of world PvP is fighting over resources and defending what you got. Your supposed to enjoy fighting to protect loot you got. That's part of the accomplishment of getting to PL. Your not entitled to progressing on your own terms.

  • Vyx
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    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @vyx said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    As a PvPer... when we meet someone that kills us we'll hunt them endlessly. The number of people that actually are willing to put up a fight and can are rare.

    Well, if you had caught me a week or two ago, I would have given you hours of PvP Bliss. Unfortunately, the wind has been taken out of my sails, so to speak. I'm really hoping something comes from these types of discussions because I REALLY enjoy the PvP in this game. I simply want to be the one that decides if I am going to PvP for hours as opposed to just defending myself from a ship a few times. It baffled me before but now it just frustrates me. Lol

    As a father of five, my gaming time is special to me and, sometimes, very limited.

    well if your time is special don't play a game that has PvP and PvE as two major components... the whole point of world PvP is fighting over resources and defending what you got. Your supposed to enjoy fighting to protect loot you got. That's part of the accomplishment of getting to PL. Your not entitled to progressing on your own terms.

    I agree. I don't mind defending my loot. I do it quite well. My frustration comes in at the point after I have sold my loot and want to go back to doing my voyages. Impossible to resume an athena quest when you have to sink the same ship twenty times. It becomes mundane VERY fast. I want to reiterate that I DO enjoy the randomness of PvP encounters AND the paranoia that comes with it. I DO NOT enjoy having to relentlessly sink the same crew of twelve-year-olds that cannot accept that they lost. Especially when they have no chance of getting loot since I already sold it after the fourth time I sank them. If experience is what they want, they could just use the trumpet and ask for tips. I am always friendly and they know that. I would gladly share what I know and I generally give constructive tips while boarding and such, tbh.

    However, these players are not trying to become better at the game. They already think they are PvP Gods because they jumped over from CoD or some such game and cannot handle the truth being fired from a cannon and sinking their ship. Especially after the third or fourth time sinking, they just become belligerent in their communication, if they actually start communicating.

    I don't know what the solution is, hence the discussion. (In which, I am genuinely glad you are taking part. You are offering valuable insight.) There are so many ways to tackle any problem; this is no different. It just requires time and multiple points of view coming together.

    I would even entertain the idea of a bounty system as that could work for EVERYONE. It would make PvP more fun for those that sought it out, norms and harassers alike. It could also make PvP much more fun for those that generally shy away at all costs as it would guarantee some sort of reward for their efforts.

    Again, thank you for your contribution to this conversation.

  • SavageTwinky
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    @vyx said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @vyx said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:

    As a PvPer... when we meet someone that kills us we'll hunt them endlessly. The number of people that actually are willing to put up a fight and can are rare.

    Well, if you had caught me a week or two ago, I would have given you hours of PvP Bliss. Unfortunately, the wind has been taken out of my sails, so to speak. I'm really hoping something comes from these types of discussions because I REALLY enjoy the PvP in this game. I simply want to be the one that decides if I am going to PvP for hours as opposed to just defending myself from a ship a few times. It baffled me before but now it just frustrates me. Lol

    As a father of five, my gaming time is special to me and, sometimes, very limited.

    well if your time is special don't play a game that has PvP and PvE as two major components... the whole point of world PvP is fighting over resources and defending what you got. Your supposed to enjoy fighting to protect loot you got. That's part of the accomplishment of getting to PL. Your not entitled to progressing on your own terms.

    I agree. I don't mind defending my loot. I do it quite well. My frustration comes in at the point after I have sold my loot and want to go back to doing my voyages. Impossible to resume an athena quest when you have to sink the same ship twenty times. It becomes mundane VERY fast. I want to reiterate that I DO enjoy the randomness of PvP encounters AND the paranoia that comes with it. I DO NOT enjoy having to relentlessly sink the same crew of twelve-year-olds that cannot accept that they lost. Especially when they have no chance of getting loot since I already sold it after the fourth time I sank them. If experience is what they want, they could just use the trumpet and ask for tips. I am always friendly and they know that. I would gladly share what I know and I generally give constructive tips while boarding and such, tbh.

    However, these players are not trying to become better at the game. They already think they are PvP Gods because they jumped over from CoD or some such game and cannot handle the truth being fired from a cannon and sinking their ship. Especially after the third or fourth time sinking, they just become belligerent in their communication, if they actually start communicating.

    I don't know what the solution is, hence the discussion. (In which, I am genuinely glad you are taking part. You are offering valuable insight.) There are so many ways to tackle any problem; this is no different. It just requires time and multiple points of view coming together.

    I would even entertain the idea of a bounty system as that could work for EVERYONE. It would make PvP more fun for those that sought it out, norms and harassers alike. It could also make PvP much more fun for those that generally shy away at all costs as it would guarantee some sort of reward for their efforts.

    Again, thank you for your contribution to this conversation.

    There is no solution. PvP is part of the game and those players will chase you indefinitely if they choose too.

    Bounty systems will not be effective. There are too few people and travel time takes a very long time. It will most likely backfire because if there is a bounty on a ship hunting you down, then there will be a hostile pvp ship hunting it down.. then likely you. A bounty system wouldn't make PvP fun at all. I don't know why people think this. Maybe for those that only want to be rewarded but those players will not be long term PvPers until you keep finding things to reward them with. And they'll see PvP as this distinct separate mode of play. The problem with PvP in this game is that it's not facilitated well in the normal course of PvE and players generally aren't mentally ready for it... PvP gets in the way of progress, the main problem is they see it as a problem.. but the game supports it as a feature.

    Most PvPers want more action more often, or as often as possible. But I don't want to feel like I'm playing a different game when I want to PvP. I still want to have that fight over loot and not just ship battles or arbitrary rewards for sinking ships with nothing on them. There is always black wake if I want a ship battle game. I proposed a PvP mode in another thread where the voyages are just shared between crews so people would be going after the same or nearby loot... funneling people together and limiting the amount of loot they can acquire. A small change like this would keep the core structure of the game intact while making the fight over loot much more prominent.

  • Spectrazy666
    Insider

    @vyx most of the time after three time sunk they leave us alone some on them after 2 lol after the first time they dont have lot of supply and they just give up i agree some of them are more persistant but we give them a lesson ^^

  • Vyx
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    Founder

    @savagetwinky said in Discussion: Egos are getting annoying:
    I proposed a PvP mode in another thread where the voyages are just shared between crews so people would be going after the same or nearby loot... funneling people together and limiting the amount of loot they can acquire. A small change like this would keep the core structure of the game intact while making the fight over loot much more prominent.

    If I fully understand what you are proposing, I think this is also very worth exploring. That is one of the more appealing aspects of this game, in my opinion. The ability it has to evolve, grow, and adapt. Anything that funnels people, as you put it, creates the same effect. Which, does nothing but enrich the experience for everyone.

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