[Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0

  • I love the new systems. I also think a "Take All" and "Store All" button could be added. I also think we could keep the "Press Y" to store items feature we already had. If I go up to the food barrel with my Bananas out, it should still be okay to store that way. But for Carbon
    Cannon balls, since we have 10 of them, it would be faster to open the cannon ball barrel and click a button to store all.

    Keep up the great UI work Rare!

  • No more stopping to loot. You have to keep moving. Idc if i cant even see whats inside it I JUST DONT WANT IT TO PAUSE MY GAME LOL. Have the menu be an optional setting for pve/preparation. To be able to press F while moving is the key. Idc whats inside, Idc if the game gives me whats inside in the wrong order, I just cannot have my game paused every 10 seconds on a skull fort.

  • @pondobruin85 said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @archangel-timmy said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    Main thing I like
    is the main thing
    most people are whining about and that is that you cannot quickly wipe a barrel on someone's ship. **It is royally annoying to have a single player board your ship and bouncing around doing nothing but eating bananas until they are gone. **

    Sounds like you're getting outplayed to me, if you can't deal with one player eating bananas. And that you are happy they can't get more. Which caters to the unskilled. Timing resupplies and out-maneuvering multiple opponents while staying alive and distracting for your teammate(s) may be an annoying strategy (for you), but it's an effective one. Sounds like one you don't know how to deal with, so you're happy now that you don't have to. Maybe go play a game more your speed, rather than being happy that this one is adding suboptimal gameplay elements which hinder the game itself, resulting in an indirect nerf to something you've yet to figure out how to deal with.

    I don't consider it being outplayed unless I am killed or sunk. Someone using a tactic (effective or not) that requires no skill is annoying, and being annoyed does not equal being outplayed.

    You could run by a barrel and grab 5 items without skipping a beat, and someone constantly eating bananas and bunny hopping around can regenerate faster than someone can deal damage unless they have more than one person helping or manage to corner them. Adding half a second to the process isn't catering the unskilled, as it affects everyone equally and only enough to deter people from a lazy outdated strategy.

    I agree it was a strategy, but it is one that should be discouraged along with bunny hopping in general but that is a separate issue.

    Ship battle used to take forever, and the best strategy was to board and spawnkill until they sunk. This was way too easy to accomplish with the barrels the way they were. If you run out of supplies or forget to bring some to the fight, it is fair that you shouldnt be able to stock up instantly. With the addition of cursed cannon balls you are given more than enough to sink a ship without having to board, so the need to be on there ship is significantly less, so the need to restock quickly isn't as important.

    In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't even take that much longer to grab supplies as you don't need to browse the barrels on a ship since they default to the first item and planks and fruit are the same. I never keep the cursed balls on my ship, so you won't need to browse there either.

    I feel people are blowing this way out of proportion.

  • I think the Cannonball Barrels should all work as one Barrel now.
    Because selecting them individually is very cumbersome.

  • Even after all of the proposed improvements to barrels 2.0, we are still looking at the following issues:

    • No ability to see what's in a barrel at a glance, causing players to re-search barrels over and over again (because they forgot which ones they checked, and also because they don't want to miss any maps, treasure, etc.) until they are marked 'empty.' This will also cause players to gamble with their lives and play a strange guessing game when they want to avoid death ("Let me open this barrel and hope there's a banana inside, otherwise I'm dead.").
    • No ability to quickly take/store important, core items on the fly.
    • Pauses in the action every time you search, resulting in frustrating player deaths at times in both PvE and PvP encounters.
    • The system gives PC players an unfair advantage over console players.
    • Accidentally storing items when you want to take them, and accidentally taking items when you want to store them. Again, this is death in the heat of battle.
    • Having to sift through TOO many items, resulting in analysis paralysis. 12 different cannonball types (plus more to be added), multiple food types with different effects, etc.
    • Not knowing which cannonballs are in which barrels. There are 3 different cannonball barrels, and each of them could be holding different ammo types or none at all. You have to open them individually to find out.
    • Abuse of the 'Take All' feature to quickly steal valuable cursed cannonballs and future ammo types from enemy ships. "Let me go into this cannon barrel and quickly steal 12+ cannonball types by mashing 'Take All.'"
    • Abuse from troll players on your own crew, taking all of your cursed cannonballs and keeping them in their personal inventory, then logging out.

    Just please revert barrels for now. Cursed Cannonballs can still be stored in the personal inventory and traded between players without this new system (this is actually the preferred way to use them to avoid theft from trolls and hostile players, or losing them if your ship sinks). Release barrels 2.0 when they are fully done and perfected. Do not make your playerbase suffer for weeks and beta test an in-progress feature. Barrels 2.0 is based on a "future vision for the game." That vision is not here yet.

  • Proposed solution for the future:

    • Revert barrels to how they were before barrels 2.0
    • Restrict cursed cannonballs and other rare ammo/food types to the personal inventory. Also, make them MUCH more rare and don't allow players to carry so many. Finally, rotate out which cursed cannonballs are available each week. Managing 12 different cannonballs is too much.
    • Allow ONLY core ammo types to be stored in the ship cannonball barrels. However, make it so each barrel is a choice! If I put standard cannonballs in one barrel, I can't put any other core types into that barrel until I use them all up. If I put grapeshot into a barrel, I can't put standard cannonballs into that barrel until I use all of the grapeshot, etc.
    • Give the ship a single storage chest (like the rowboat) that you can use to store whatever you like.

    I think this solution is a good compromise, and makes it so you don't have to add a bunch of new barrel types onto the ship. I think it also creates a lot of interesting player choice.

  • @katttruewalker said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @treefittymonsta Just sign up for the Insider programme and you should be able to reply in that thread.

    Never got a response email. Add that one to the list of bugs.

  • One of the reasons I fell in love with this game is because I was able to really immerse myself in the game and live out my pirate fantasy. This change to barrels has really ruined that for me, as now everytime I go up to a barrel I am met with a UI menu. Why would a game that focuses so much on immersion and pulling players into the game change a core mechanic to one that pulls you OUT of the game.

    I understand the need to iterate on the inventory and barrel system to accommodate future updates, but there has to be a better way of going about this. For example, if a radial is being put on cannons allowing you to choose your cannon balls right there, why is there a need to change barrels for cursed cannon balls?

    I'm just really disappointed that one of the things you do the most in this game now requires you to fight with a UI menu as opposed to organically collecting items.

    I've read a bunch of suggestions here on how to improve the system, so I'm hopeful that Rare actually reads them and comes up with a much better system than the one they have implemented recently.

  • @dunvar I agree. I just want to be a pirate, not a wizard. If I wanted to craft have have lots of inv space, I would go to Elder Scrolls, not a goddam pirate game.

  • I read Rare's answer about the difficulty of having the option to take ressources on the fly because now a barrel contains several different resources.
    This is understandable but it has a negative impact on the fighting, especially when you want to take cover while taking a banana in the barrel to heal.
    So it's very important in my opinion to keep this opportunity to take the resources on the fly.

    I see two solutions:

    • The first has been proposed many times : it is simply a question of giving each barrel a primary resource, or an order in which the players will take the resources. This allows you to choose whether you want to take directly on the fly or open the inventory to take only what is interesting.
    • The second idea is to add specialized barrels that will behave like 1.0 barrels with only one type of resource. These special barrels would be placed at strategic and decorative points. (picture from below)

    Note: One of the suggestion does not prevent the other.

    To be clear on what I find most urgent:
    On the ship (or in every battle) it is also very important to have access on the fly for at least the banana. These are the only resources that a person is susseptible to take while being pursued by an enemy. It is therefore very important also to have this fast option without having to open the inventory while remaining stationary.

  • To be honest, I actually like the new barrel system. Yes, it definitely needs some adjustments - take all/store all ability, display as empty when fully looted, etc. - but I know Rare will make improvements over time. It makes sense to move to something like this given the future possibilities it opens up, and once I got the hang of it, I really wasn't slowed down that much at all.

  • The barrels isn’t that big of a deal in my opinion. Yes a little muscle memory practice, and you may have to stop at a barrel and click a couple of extra clicks, but after seeing the developers response (Finding other stash likes maps and quests etc). I see lots of cool options potentially coming down the road. I think RARE has done a good job bringing new ideas. It takes time to tweek new material. Not everyone will be happy. Dang, gamers are just like old people, you change something that hasn’t been changed in 50years and they have a fit. Lol. Let’s sail the seas and have adventures! Rare, stay the course! Peace

  • @captomalley1603 To have the proper muscle memory on PC, it’s 4 clicks to get the job done - if you’re lucky. F to enter, Q or E to enter the store/take state, F to move the item, and a hard-wired, unremappable X to exit.

    What I truly don't understand is why the exit is inconsistent across the various UI elements - heck, entering the various UI elements is inconsistent. It’s F to talk to Duke, and merchants, but R to talk to the Factions. It’s X (or Esc) for the inventory, but only Esc on the other elements, like the flag box. After hours trying to get adapt to hitting X to exit in the UI (Esc is a reach in the heat of the moment), I went up to the flag box to fix a glitched flag and was mashing X to try to exit it, before realizing, nope, it’s Esc for this one. And the initial state of the Inventory UI (take/store) can be different every time you enter it - it doesn’t have a default. Also, sometimes when entering, no item is selected by default or your mouse appears over an item that can't be stored in that barrel, so hitting Q or E and then F does nothing until you mouse over the correct item. It’s nigh on impossible to develop a good muscle memory when the design is inconsistent and unpredictable.

    On PC, I’m sure we’d all developed excellent muscle memory around F to take and R to store; so, why it was necessary to completely abandon that and switch to two keystrokes (Q or E and then F) is, frankly, beyond me. It has nothing to do with the expansion they want. It should be F to enter, F to take or R to store, X to exit - all of which should be remappable. Easy peasy.

    And be consistent with all the UI navigation.

  • It didnt need to change as we didnt need cursed cannonballs.

    If I need health I eat bananas, I dont need fish, pineapples or coconuts.

    This has all come about from people complaining the game was released early and had no content. None of these people are playing the game anymore and they wont be coming back.

    I haven't played since the update and the longer it takes to fix everything the less and less I actually want to play again.

  • There are so much Barrels on a Ship, which we can't use. Why can't we decide for ourselves which barrels we use for which resources but only one for each barrel?

    So one for cursed cannonballs, one for normal cannonballs, one for bananas one for fish.

    No inventory needed!

  • @barnacle-remson I am excited about the prospect of having various other items for the inventory - particularly, various other types of cannonballs (cursed cannonballs excepted). So, I get why having dedicated barrels won't necessarily work. But there has to be a better, more intuitive way of approaching the inventory system navigation. I also understand that they have to deal with two control systems, and, so they have to consider what it takes to navigate the UI on a m/K and a controller. This current iteration feels slapdash and has tons of problems, and, while I look forward to the changes, I can't help but wonder if the fix will follow the same inconsistent UI navigation that has existed in the game since well before launch.

  • @Bran-the-Ent you are right. There are too many different buttons now. It is counter intuitive and breaks the flow of playing the game. On top of that you get the pause manipulating items and the screen side inventory menu blocking the game. It commandeers gameplay and sinks all the fun out of sailing.

    It is great to add new items such as ammo, food, cargo, etc. Fishing, cooking, and other things talked about will bring more to the game and add to the fun to be had by all. However, it means using the new inventory system that would need to be used more and more as that kind of content added. More pausing and breaking you out of playing the game.

    A screen wide inventory menu is not necessary and hurts the game. There is no need to see what is going in to your inventory in a split container screen as you are collecting it. A radial menu that pops up quickly over the container or one small box, similar to the ones in the new inventory menu, pops up just to the side of the container if they still want to stay that route. The radial menu or small box would not cover the whole screen. Same way in reverse to deposit what you collect on your ship or the upcoming row boat. It would allow you to see everything around you like you could before when collecting from barrels. No greying out and pausing like the new menu does now.

    If the main item in a barrel is bananas, have a quick take option to take that item like before. Have a second option to open up the barrel and grab the other things in it if you want to. That would be when the radial button pops up or an inventory box. Then you could still grab things you need on the fly that you spot around you. You grab what you need in a fight, rather it be with skeletons or other players, and keep moving along like we use to be able to do. When just exploring, gathering, or after a fight you have that second option to open the container up all the way to collect what else is in there.

    Use as few button presses as possible. Keep the buttons flowing smoothly like the same button opens and closes a container for example. Button options stay consistent according to the same type of thing you are interacting with. Taking damage does not stop you from collecting items or when swimming around floating barrels like the menu closes continuously on now. Of course, what they said they are going to do, containers say empty when they are.

  • Now that I have tried the new system a bit more, I kind of like it...isn't that bad what I read before...
    Yeah it's slower, and a little screen next to the "press x" to see what's inside the barrel would be nice...but it let's you explore more, I like that
    And fighting is really fun with the cursed cannonballs...I'm really looking forward to what's coming next

  • There is one more tiny issue that I haven't read about anywhere else with barrels...

    There is a very small delay after closing a window where hitting your movement key doesn't work. I do my best to open (F), gather (Q and then spam F) and exit (X). But after hitting X I hit a key to move (A to the left for next barrel) and it doesn't register. I have to re-hit it to move if I do it too quickly after hitting X. Perhaps it's due to the closing animation and sound, but I can't move until it's over. Again it's a very short time, maybe .25 seconds. But that's an eternity when smashing keys to quickly gather in a shipwreck.

  • Okay, so I've played quite a bit now and read a lot of the feed back. I'll post my thoughts and feedback below:

    *ISSUE - Unknown barrel content- checking barrels via a menu slows gameplay.
    Solution - Label barrels with either 'empty' or 'item name' or 'various' on approach. Include the original Y store mechanic when holding an item. Include a 'take all' option for quick resource collecting.
    Additional bugs / issues: Menu closes when floating barrels bob on waves (increase proximity registraton)

    *ISSUE - Cursed C'Balls access unintuitive in combat - It's awkward, slow and frustrating.
    Solution - These need to be on the radial button. There is already a 'more' function so add them there.

    *ISSUE - Opening the menu system takes too long to load up and you have to wait for it. Breaks Immersion.
    *ISSUE - My ship movement appears to stutter occasionally now. Breaks Immersion.
    *ISSUE - Occasionally there is now a delay/screen freeze when firing cannons. Breaks Immersion.

    As a polite suggestion, I would advise concentrating on adding puzzles, clues, long term collectable pieces for large rewards, social activities/games in taverns & ships.

    I feel this game is now on a fork in it's development and changing core gameplay mechanics is possibly game breaking so tread carefully. I hope the right choices are made in the future as there are many good games on the horizon, that one big mistake could initiate the games demise.

  • Came home from work last night and my Son was playing, he is a very casual player and very rarely chooses SOT over Fortnite or COD. I let him use my account as it levels me up for nothing and I let him spend his loot gold on whatever he wants.

    I sat and watched him for about 10 minutes as he complained none stop about the barrels. His biggest complaint was not knowing whats inside before checking, or at the very least being told the barrel was empty.

    I found the application of the cursed balls to be terrible and having to cycle through a menu to get to them is one of the worst decisions I have seen made by Rares design team.

    I also saw a lot of glitches which have seemingly been applied in the new update, some funny, some really annoying.

    Just sitting and watching someone else play and struggle with the new UI has me very worried for the future of the game.

    I really hope they implement some fixes this week.

  • I have mostly lurked on the forums but wow this update is requiring me to speak up. I have a pretty solid crew of 4 we are all about 5-10 levels away from reaching pirate legend and had a ton of fun with cursed sails. We just got to play the update for the first time yesterday and o my god what on earth happened and how did someone get away with the murder of this game? The skeletons just don’t stop spawning all with guns and all during a normal gold voyage. They all seem to be amped up in difficulty as well as I never had an issue with just normal island skeletons. So now we have harder enemies and the worst post launch inventory system in gaming history...for me at least lol. Seriously though what a giant wrench thrown in to the flow of the game. Why is anything changed at all with the way it used to work? Why can’t you keep the old stocking system and make it a different button to “search” barrels for cursed cannon balls or let’s say second tier supplies. Having to open each barrel to see if normal supplies are in there is such a colossal misstep. I have 2 people in my crew who love this game so much I’ve never heard them complain and trash this game EVER until yesterday. The consensus with my crew is that if the game launched with this inventory system they would have never liked the game. I have always felt like Rare was doing this unlike any other company which is a good thing, but this update along with the dev response is giving me Bungie/Destiny flashbacks and that is NOT a good thing.

    Edit: I’ll keep my original post intact but I must not have read the correct response initially because the fixes going in on the next update I am impressed with. I still think that you should be able to take and store normal supplies without the menu but I have faith restored that Rare is listening and will try and make it right.

  • @treefittymonsta said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @katttruewalker said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @treefittymonsta Just sign up for the Insider programme and you should be able to reply in that thread.

    Never got a response email. Add that one to the list of bugs.

    I'm sorry that you haven't heard yet, the only way to get this investigated would be via Support as they are the ones who are able to access the information.

  • @treefittymonsta said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @katttruewalker said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @treefittymonsta Just sign up for the Insider programme and you should be able to reply in that thread.

    Never got a response email. Add that one to the list of bugs.

    It has been a problem for months. Had same issue. Sent in a ticket back then. First response was sorry will send to a dev. Days later official response was the Insider program no longer existed. That was and is not true. I followed up with evidence and did not get any further response.

    If you repeat the send email process again, it will come and you will have Insider status. You may need to do this several times waiting in between attempts. I reported my findings and never got a response. This is a whole other problem, however the underlying root cause more than likely spreads across many issues.

  • Let's analyze the problem.
    The new barrels menu was created basically to put not only multiple types of objects in a single barrel, but also to put bewitched cannonballs.
    In my opinion, all the problems could be solved: Restore the barrels to the previous state, then with a type of resource per barrel; in some cases, still in the barrels, you can find the new cannon balls.
    These, could be equipped with a new wheel menu (such as personal items and maps), which could be opened via a special command on the keyboard and joypad.
    Thanks to this, you could equip all items quickly and the game would not be distorted.

  • The thing that stands out MOST to me (negatively) and I've not seen addressed by any of the upcoming changes is STORING items.
    The storing of items was made longer and clunkier more-so than removing items.
    I'd love to see something done to allow us to store items with just a key/button click, and not have to bounce around so much in the new UI.

    I don't mind the UI window popping up so much as I just would like to not have to use different controls on the PC to put items into a barrel. The old EQUIP and press R was wonderful and I'd, at least, still like to be able to do that with a button press or two. Even better if we could just drop things in the barrels without having to open the UI window, but whatever it takes for the new system to work well.

  • @x-crowheart-x And likewise we were able to check previously, it has always been a bit funky, but with the new data protection legislation in the UK, it now means that your data is protected by Rare so that we need to use Support to get to the specific people who have authorisation.

  • @katttruewalker said in [Mega Thread] Part 2 of Barrel 2.0:

    @x-crowheart-x And likewise we were able to check previously, it has always been a bit funky, but with the new data protection legislation in the UK, it now means that your data is protected by Rare so that we need to use Support to get to the specific people who have authorisation.

    I am ok. I got it to work back then. Was offering what I did not giving up. Have been getting involved the Insider way since then. : )

  • I am seeing a lot of people complaining about bunny-hopping and such while eating bananas. Let me make this clear. In a game where you can die in less that one second due to more than one person firing at you, or even 1 skilled player, not moving means you die. if your crew cannot corner and deal with 1 boarder on your ship you have no business being in the ocean to begin with. There is a way to kill a player better than you at guns. It is called be a better driver. Listen to the waves for a swimmer. Be a better shot on the cannons and maybe he dies on deck and board his ship instead, camp small hallways on ships and make it a battle of who pulls the trigger first.

    If failing to land even wounding shots beneath the decks of the galleon, sloop, and brigantine is happening, that is not a bananas and bunnyhopping problem. That is a lack of ability on the crew problem.

    The biggest fear of all that I can see is that in his plans for improvement he does not mention remaining mobile while looting. That is THE ONLY PROBLEM. That and not being able to see empties. Idc what the hell appears in my bags as long as I can grab it without mama and papa skeleton shoving a gun down my throat. I have emerged victorious over people with aim 1000x better than me because of how I chose to fight them. Because the beauty of this game is that sea of thieves is actually a game of brains.
    Hidden behind all the supposed simplicity, we had a game where skill, wits, speed, and even surprise all meshed together to create situations where anyone could win, run, or turn the tides of battle.

  • The change to barrels has killed my enthusiasm for this game. The mechanic is so bad that I just can't be bothered to play. I took a week off as I was away when I came back this mess was in place. My crew played for about 2 hours and I have not been back since. I can't see me rushing to return.

  • I hate Rare for ruining what was great about this game : Simplicity and a level playing field.
    Both of these were blown out of the water with this update.
    The barrels. I tried it. I just hate it. It's just ruined the flow of the game and the simplicity that made this game so fast to learn and fun to play.
    It's just too painful now to supply up a ship. I just don't even care to log on any more. Running down to supply up in the middle of battle is a mess.
    And then we have the complete dumpster fire that is Cursed Cannonballs.

    I played this game for several hours a day and made Pirate Legend but this latest update is just killing the whole vibe of the game.

    I'm out.

  • Hated the barrels when they were first introduced, but i'm kind of getting used to them now. Yes, it is harder to grab things quickly. But you soon get used to it. Not fair xbox users can't hold down a button and empty each slot with one press unlike a mouse.
    I don't want to see a TAKE ALL button on the barrels on our ships. As this will be too easy for attacking pirates to take everything in seconds.

  • Played for a couple of hours last night. Really open minded and tried but I just can’t play with the new system.

    This isn’t a muscle memory thing... the new barrel system is just clunky and horrible.

    Died too easily from getting stuck in them etc...

    The game has been broken. One of my friends was a green skeleton, and all our telescopes were glitched to look ridiculous (I’m sure you all know what I mean by that haha). Issues after every update. People will say this is to be expected but to be honest, why should it be expected? You buy products in the faith that they have been fully tested.

    I loved rare for so much of my childhood and loved this game at launch even though content was sparse, but as they release more stuff, it just feels slapdash and amateur.

    Turned the game off frustrated at how it’s been ruined, and to be honest can’t really find the excitement to turn it back on again..

    Sorry Sea of Thieves you lost me. Bring on RDR2!

  • Here's how I think it should go

    The ui menu should have a square which gives quick access to whatever item is in that square then other boxes numbered 1 to whatever number. When the quick access supplies are all gone the item in box 1 should move to the quick access box and so on till the barrel is Drained of supplies then empty symbol is displayed.

    On your ship you can move around all the supplies within each barrel and they stay like this. So if you want bananas for quick access they are there. Same goes for any other barrel.

    On islands, outposts and forts they should spawn with bananas, cannon balls, planks always in the quick access box so no need to go into the ui menu if you only need those items. All barrels could be kept as they were before with regards to what barrel spawns bananas which has cannon balls etc. Once spawned though you can move around any supplies (even on island barrels) to suit whatever you want quick access to

    To take the quick access supplies you tap f/x as before and to access additional supplies you hold f/x

    Personally think this method satisfies those who prefer the old method and also gives access to additional supplies for Cc and future supplies

  • Any update to this atrocity on the livestream today? Didnt have a chance to tune in.

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