Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay

  • ElectricKnights
    Legend
    Insider

    We don't fully know all the details about the Alliance System yet, but, we know a few things they have told us. And let's say it works the way many figure it will - rewards are fully shared across all within an alliance - which could lead to players forming a common gameplan of forming server-wide alliances for greater rewards/riches/progression.

    Let's say that is the 'worst case' scenario.

    That could be fine. And here is why.
    (step back from your belief that this is bad for PvP and give this a chance)

    Currently, PvP is a constant option. No matter how many vocal protests erupt from those who don't enjoy PvP - attacking and killing other players is a natural, intended, aspect of the game.
    Currently, the possible reward for PvP (besides the fun of it) is obtaining the other crew's treasure.
    Currently, there's no in-game reward for forming alliances. Yet, they are formed. Friendly encounters occur. Bonds are made (and sometimes are not broken with betrayal, haha).

    Currently, the naural state between players is PvP or riskily attempt friendship.

    None of this will change under the 'worst case' scenario.

    What will change is giving more people a palpatable reason to attempt alliances.
    That is their choice.
    Choice is what this game has always been about.

    PvP will still be 100% available to all.

    If you, or I, don't want to form alliances with others, then we do not need to. At all.
    Raise sails, man the starboard cannons, let's give 'em hell.

    Nothing has changed against that.

    Protesting this Alliance System is the same thing as asking for PvE servers - asking for PvP to not be the natural option. You're getting bent out of shape because your preferred element of fun is being challenged. It's not being removed.

    They're just giving more choices to the players. Have at it. Or have a go together. It's all good. All part of the original intent of the game.

    Friendship has always been a goal of this game. However, they never wanted to limit the freedom to attack at will. And they are not removing that, at all.

    Enjoy.

    Bonus Possibility

    I don't think Alliances will prevent combat between each other.
    If that is the case - you could actually find more battle. If they're not going to lose their rewards (but only will lose pride, haha), they may be more willing to engage in combat. If combat is what is fun for you, you may enjoy those results.
    Those other players may enjoy those results, as well... and become better at PvPing, and grow to enjoy it, and engage in it more often - with or without alliances.

    Also, remember, we'll need to approach strange crews, agree to a treaty, before Alliances are formed. Plenty of opportunuities for combat.

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  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    Not a bad perspective, OP, though I do dislike the supposed approach (as you mentioned in your worst case scenario) this alliance system seems to be taking towards, serverwide alliances is just another cumbersome ordeal we will need to deal with that files under the category of "gameplay workarounds", as in players that seeks shortcuts to optmize the fun out of the game, creating farming servers for the multiple different reasons, although not always consistent or reliable.

    If that is what the future of Sea of Thieves shapes up to be, I'm ready to call it Sea of Fleets, though I'd prefer it stayed less allianced.

  • sanni
    Lord
    Founder

    Fleets will be awesome if Rare increases server population too and sets a limit to fleet size so that you can only have half the current server population in your fleet.

  • Shuoink
    Master
    Insider

    your right, alliances dont prevent combat

    it does eliminate the need for it at all though. no reason to fight when you can team up with every ship on the server and share loot and rep across the board. no reason right now NOT to be in an alliance, minus the fact that you will get slightly less reward. not worth the fight to make the extra 1-200 gold per item you would make when not aligned.

    Ill be handing out athena missions to every boat on the server, level 10 athena here i come

  • treefittymonsta
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @sanni said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    Fleets will be awesome if Rare increases server population too and sets a limit to fleet size so that you can only have half the current server population in your fleet.

    Unfortunately, in the behind the scenes video, they state the 6 ships (I.E. the entrie current server population) will be able form an armada for server domination. This is what I'm concerned with. I don't think the alliance will reduce PVP opportunities but will make some servers a bore fest because a large alliance has been established and you either submit or be pressured off the server.

    I hope they bring in some kind of notification system so you can attempt to avoid servers that are dominated by a 5 crew alliance.

  • rockinpodunk
    Captain
    Insider

    I can see ways to use the alliances for more piratey forms of betrayal as well. You drop a high level voyage on an allied ship and send them on their merry way to do the legwork for you. You can see exactly where there ship is located on your map. Once they get the goods, you go find them, break the alliance and destroy them for 100% profit. Because the system will require a good amount of trust on both crews, not everyone will want to join up, and I personally think it would be fun to try and take on 2 or 3 ships at once. Could even have an achievement like battlefields “squad wipe” for sinking every ship in a given alliance. We will all find out tomorrow whether or not it’s any good.

  • ENF0RCER
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @treefittymonsta said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    @sanni said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    Fleets will be awesome if Rare increases server population too and sets a limit to fleet size so that you can only have half the current server population in your fleet.

    Unfortunately, in the behind the scenes video, they state the 6 ships (I.E. the entrie current server population) will be able form an armada for server domination. This is what I'm concerned with. I don't think the alliance will reduce PVP opportunities but will make some servers a bore fest because a large alliance has been established and you either submit or be pressured off the server.

    I hope they bring in some kind of notification system so you can attempt to avoid servers that are dominated by a 5 crew alliance.

    I agree with this statment. Right now we don't know how many people or ships are on the server when we join session let alone what types they are. If we get in a situation were a server becomes a mob rule where a its was controled by a premade fleet this put solo and small parties at a large disadvange. As it would take them a while to even realize there situation and depending how much time they already invested in that server b4 they noticed they would be put in a tough postion to comply or be forced off the server losing all their progress till that point. This would not be a concern if one could simply choose their server or at least get some small details about the server were joining or currently in when we join like a log or somthing in the tavern or the ferry to indicate ships and crews. But Rare wants this to be a persistent world strung together by many seperate instances of up to 6 ships each. This i suppose is to support the illusion of a high populated by showing so many people in the same world but rarely seeing anyone. I do support the Alliance system but there a vaild concerns that need to be addressed.

  • Zyrkal
    Captain
    Insider

    I think I will like the alliance system but my only concern is:

    The Toxicity against PVP player will raise a lot.
    Because there will be no reason to sink a ship except if you like to grief others...
    because you just have to do an alliance and you get 100% profit.

  • treefittymonsta
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @enf0rcer said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    @treefittymonsta said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    @sanni said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    Fleets will be awesome if Rare increases server population too and sets a limit to fleet size so that you can only have half the current server population in your fleet.

    Unfortunately, in the behind the scenes video, they state the 6 ships (I.E. the entrie current server population) will be able form an armada for server domination. This is what I'm concerned with. I don't think the alliance will reduce PVP opportunities but will make some servers a bore fest because a large alliance has been established and you either submit or be pressured off the server.

    I hope they bring in some kind of notification system so you can attempt to avoid servers that are dominated by a 5 crew alliance.

    I agree with this statment. Right now we don't know how many people or ships are on the server when we join session let alone what types they are. If we get in a situation were a server becomes a mob rule where a its was controled by a premade fleet this put solo and small parties at a large disadvange. As it would take them a while to even realize there situation and depending how much time they already invested in that server b4 they noticed they would be put in a tough postion to comply or be forced off the server losing all their progress till that point. This would not be a concern if one could simply choose their server or at least get some small details about the server were joining or currently in when we join like a log or somthing in the tavern or the ferry to indicate ships and crews. But Rare wants this to be a persistent world strung together by many seperate instances of up to 6 ships each. This i suppose is to support the illusion of a high populated by showing so many people in the same world but rarely seeing anyone. I do support the Alliance system but there a vaild concerns that need to be addressed.

    I hope they give us a notification that alliance was formed on the server. Or when join in 'warning a five ship alliance resides on this server. Proceed carefully or switch server selection.'

  • Phelim McNab
    Marauder

    @pdt-mindstream What makes or breaks a good alliance system in a pirate game is the manner in which one can mutiny within it. Currently, as far as I can tell, there is no reason not to maintain an alliance; there is no reason to reject the offer of an alliance. What’s to lose? Somebody does a chunk of work for you and you get an equal reward for their efforts. Why would you break that alliance? It’s actually not in your best interest to reject or break an alliance. Where is the uneasiness? Solely in the fact, that it can be easily broken? Break it and guess who has to do that chunk of the work? Even the mundane... who has to slog the chests to the merchants from the dock? Who has to sail all the way across the map now to deliver this stupid, whining pig.

    With no incentive to break an alliance, one of two things occur: either it becomes about loot farming and making friends, or it becomes about teaming up to dominate a server and “rule” the seas - neither of which is has anything to do with thieving - the core aspect of this game, IMO. More ships doing the same voyage means less loot on a ship and so, even less reason to take the effort to sink it. Basically, the whole thieving concept gets drastically diminished. In fact, it may put the PvP pressure on those few not in an alliance because they’re more likely to have more loot.

    Also, with the new alliance minimap, there’s less incentive and fewer options to break an alliance because you can see them coming. You can instantly see if there’s a ship in your fleet that’s gone rogue... you don’t even need to be able to see them on the sea... just look at the map.

    If you’re boarded, you can’t lie about the whereabouts of your alliance because they’re all there on the magic minimap. A pirate forced to be honest because of a magic minimap. Where’s the intrigue?

    An uneasy alliance should mean that you have no idea what that other ship is up to... and that a crew could stand to benefit by engaging in a mutiny - and players will have to come up with their own strategies to contend with that possibility. And you should have something to gain from starting a mutiny... otherwise, what’s the point? You should always be wondering... where is that other ship? Why is our liaison telling us they’ve brigged their captain and are forcing our man off their ship? (I mean, finally a reason to use the brig!! Missed opportunity there.)

    So, piracy kinda suffers in favor of loot farming or sinking ships just to sink them. Not something I’m particularly looking forward to. And, in the face of large ship alliances, player choice is impacted as well. When your choice is join, sink, or leave... well, that’s not much of a choice.

    The devs are being a bit heavy handed and limiting player imagination, ingenuity, and choice by spoonfeeding solutions rather than letting players guide the gameplay. It was players who came up with the notion of buying other ships - a solution that fits quite well with the world. Uneasy alliances already existed. In trying to make these things easier, the devs, I feel, have gone overboard. They need a lighter touch, I feel. One that doesn’t result in a mechanic that has the very real potential to become abusive and kill the enjoyment for players not in an alliance.

    All this said, we don’t know what we’re getting until later today. It may be brilliant, and everything I’ve said above may be not how it ends up working at all, but I’m going solely based on what the devs have said so far about alliances, and I’m wary.

  • Jersey The Wise
    Master
    Insider

    The only way to find out is by trying...

  • IndyJack
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    People are talking about alliances like there's no downside. Has it been confirmed what percentage of the reward you will get? If it's split evenly and you ally with a crew that's not as efficient as you then you're losing out. It's not automatically the best choice.

  • Vulgrim1911

    I might ally at the start, just to go 50/50/50, after that im sinking anything in sight.

  • Nebenkuh

    Would you stop with the crying already...

    1. you need to find other ships first to form an alliance
    2. they need to actually be willing to form an alliance
    3. not everyone is playing for 12 hours a day so naturally alliances will end when crews go offline
    4. for an alliance to dominate, they would have to all sail around together. that means they will only be in one part of the map, so easy to avoid. they might also be less effective at farming when prioritising sticking together over high yield voyages.
    5. if they don't stick together, they're no more of a threat than any other lone ship unless they have good communication and you take too long to sink them
    6. you can leave alliances at any time so I see a lot of betrayal

    absolutely no need to make a fuss tbh

  • RAM2K14
    Marauder
    Insider

    @pdt-mindstream Regarding the Alliance system. I have a few comments/questions that we may or may not know yet. 1) If you form an alliance, does it end when you log out or do you think it stays with those players when you log in if they happen to be on that same server. 2) Currently its not possible to join specific servers to my knowledge so it would be hard for a set group of players to all join and form an alliance in the same server.. it is Random right? 3) have you heard if the Alliance system makes it so that your co-aligned crew cannot take friendly fire from weapons? And 4) if you are Aligned with a crew and you both defeat a skull fort lets say, it mentioned you can Break the alliance... do you think 1 crew would be able to break that alliance and turn in the loot for sole gain? Or if it was had under an alliance would it remain "marked " as such? Thoughts?

  • PRIVATE RAMB0

    It’s going to make the whole PL and Athena 10 milestones irrelevant. I wasted weeks of my time :(. It’s the same problem as Duke’s level letters just four times as bad. I could also see people doing a merchant cheese where you have two Galleons at two nearby outposts filled with Gold/ Black chickens/snakes and you have one person from the other crew on each Galleon.

  • Phelim McNab
    Marauder

    @nebenkuh said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    Would you stop with the crying already...

    1. you need to find other ships first to form an alliance
    2. they need to actually be willing to form an alliance

    And, if the rewards are all shared equally why would you not be willing to form an alliance? What is the incentive to say no?

    1. not everyone is playing for 12 hours a day so naturally alliances will end when crews go offline

    Okay... and... new alliances form.

    1. for an alliance to dominate, they would have to all sail around together. that means they will only be in one part of the map, so easy to avoid. they might also be less effective at farming when prioritising sticking together over high yield voyages.
    1. if they don't stick together, they're no more of a threat than any other lone ship unless they have good communication and you take too long to sink them

    The sea is not that big. An alliance could take over The Wilds, for example. Sure, you could just avoid going to The Wilds... unless you had a voyage that meant you had to, or you happened to spawn there. Voyage maps generally aren’t that spread out, so sticking together while doing voyages will be easy.

    But to dominate the server, they’d just have to be strategically placed within eyesight of one another. Given the server population limitations, dominating a server would be easy if it works as the dev in the behind the scenes video hinted.

    1. you can leave alliances at any time so I see a lot of betrayal

    This depends on how rewards are shared. If they are all shared equally, what is the incentive to leave the alliance? You’d be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

  • Phelim McNab
    Marauder

    @ram2k14 said in Alliance System - Flipping The Script - Why It's Okay:

    @pdt-mindstream Regarding the Alliance system. I have a few comments/questions that we may or may not know yet. 1) If you form an alliance, does it end when you log out or do you think it stays with those players when you log in if they happen to be on that same server. 2) Currently its not possible to join specific servers to my knowledge so it would be hard for a set group of players to all join and form an alliance in the same server.. it is Random right? 3) have you heard if the Alliance system makes it so that your co-aligned crew cannot take friendly fire from weapons? And 4) if you are Aligned with a crew and you both defeat a skull fort lets say, it mentioned you can Break the alliance... do you think 1 crew would be able to break that alliance and turn in the loot for sole gain? Or if it was had under an alliance would it remain "marked " as such? Thoughts?

    1. If you log out, the alliance is broken. You can’t choose to join the same server, so it makes no sense to maintain an alliance beyond server sessions.

    2. True - for the time being, but Chapman has already mentioned that they are looking at multi-ship lobbies where you can invite more friends and be spread across multiple ships on the same server - so, soon we’ll be able to say hello to multi-ship clan alliances.

    3. God, I hope not. It’s supposed to be an uneasy alliance. Friendly fire accidents should be possible, IMO. If only as a strategy for those defending themselves against alliances (create a crossfire situation.)

    4. A broken alliance is a broken alliance. But, again... what’s the incentive to do that? Currently, people do it because the reward would have to be split among crews and breaking the informal alliance allows one to get all the rewards. If the formal alliance means you share all the rewards anyway, there’s no reason to break the alliance.

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