A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity

@personalc0ffee said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@flippin-loud said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 his opinion is based on much more time learning the game and the mechanics of everything. So his opinion carrys a bit more weight.
Think about if ur car was making a funny noise and u asked 2 people their opinion on what could be wrong, whos opinion would u take more seriously a mechanic or a yoga teacher who happens to own a car? Heres a hint: hes the mechanic

I actually have 700+ hours experience in this game between beta, scaling tests, and the main game.

I'm more than qualified to explain mechanics and give my point of views.

I'm also a Pirate Legend.

and you and everyone else who cannot see the difference between the game recognizing ownership of an object, and a person risking possession of the object as 2 very different things don't understand as much as they think they do.

@aod-fluid said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 I made a post/reply about risk vs reward.

It is balanced. I lose nothing, you lose nothing, it's not yours and it's not mine. Just because you spent 8 hours on a riddle it doesn't you get to turn it in and keep it.

The more loot you have on your ship, the higher the risk you take you. The more loot you have, the higher the reward you receive.

If I choose to pursue a ship, that is a risk. They may have nothing. What do I lose as the aggressor? My time. Is my time wasted as valuable as your time spent looking? That is subjective. However, we are both free to be the aggressor and only have our time wasted. It's pretty balanced if you play both the cat and the mouse.

When you decide to attack from that moment on is all that counts. What you did before that is on you. I risk looking what I have earned. The gold I spent to go earn it. My time fighting you etc.

You claim its no one's until sold..i would argue possession makes it mine. Most laws agree.

The loot is deferred, that's not my opinion, it's how Rare designed the game. You can argue all you want but loot isn't yours until it's actually cashed in and you get the gold and rep for it.

It is mine. I just have been rewarded for it. We will have agree to not agree because I'm not arguing word play.

I don't attack ships but I can if I choose to. That is what makes Sea of Thieves, Sea of Thieves.

To bad so many people treat it as sea of psychotic murderers.

Fine, it is yours. The thieves on the sea that the game is named after... they are coming to take it.

Yes. Agreed. And?

If you don't see how that fits then this is not the game for you.

I see how it fits, did I say otherwise? No.

Wanna argue with me like you did PersonalCoffee? He has 1500 chests turned in (as mentioned above)... I have almost 3000 (2947).

I don't care if you have 20k...means nothing to me.

Let's argue about how to hold onto your loot on the Sea of Thieves.

Why? Have I argued that? No. I said PVP is unbalanced, the risk vs reward favors the attacker always. With attacker only risking time.

@dutchyankee Your right it is...it is also abused, and unbalanced. So if they come up with a solution to fix it great.

@mighty-ace123 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@personalc0ffee said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 That loot is not yours, until you turn it in. Risk is the name of this game.

If you don't want to PvP, than evade or leave the server.

Risk for the attacker is zero...when you have a suggestion to fix that great..otherwise expect people to keep coming to the game feeling the same as I and many others do, and you can keep telling them they are wrong as the game dies.

Risk for the attacker is not getting your stuff. Time spend X 0 loot = no gold/rep.

He risks time only. Unless he has possession of something like gold, or other rewards. I can't go gambling and risk what is your wallet. Sure I can take your money, or borrow your money, but until I do either it's not mine.

Also the attacker creates the tension this game needs to work. Without it you would do endless, never interrupted fetching. Who would want that?

Tension is fine, when not abused. The people who might want it...I dunno the people getting abused by the mechanics in game by people who may or may not do anything but PVP.

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dutchyankee Your right it is...it is also abused, and unbalanced. So if they come up with a solution to fix it great.

What solution?

You haven't given me one...but then I suppose you consider PVP balanced and fun...so there is that.

Propose a solution that isn't one-sided to just PvE. This is a PvEvP game, there is no way around that. Ever. The seas aren't safe and they're about to get a little more dangerous with AI ships camping the outpost. If we get XP for finding something instead of on turn in, there would be no reason to attack other players. You would have nothing to lose. I guess you'd like that, though.

Then you give reasons for players to engage in it. PVP zones with land based combat for rewards like/similar to forts...maybe with dailies. Ship combat zones with reward that are all strictly PVP..you go in your agreeing to it. Simple as that. Outside of these zones you make it PVE and against the pirate code to attack other pirates.

Right now the only solution proposed by many are passive modes and PVE servers. I don't think PVE servers are ideal. But I do think there needs to be something done to prevent people doing only PVP content and attacking players for sport. Pirates didn't do that. Attacking for sport isn't tension it's bulling.

@dragonsire2016 has started quite the debate

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@mighty-ace123 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@personalc0ffee said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 That loot is not yours, until you turn it in. Risk is the name of this game.

If you don't want to PvP, than evade or leave the server.

Risk for the attacker is zero...when you have a suggestion to fix that great..otherwise expect people to keep coming to the game feeling the same as I and many others do, and you can keep telling them they are wrong as the game dies.

Risk for the attacker is not getting your stuff. Time spend X 0 loot = no gold/rep.

He risks time only. Unless he has possession of something like gold, or other rewards. I can't go gambling and risk what is your wallet. Sure I can take your money, or borrow your money, but until I do either it's not mine.

Also the attacker creates the tension this game needs to work. Without it you would do endless, never interrupted fetching. Who would want that?

Tension is fine, when not abused. The people who might want it...I dunno the people getting abused by the mechanics in game by people who may or may not do anything but PVP.

If treasure takes time to gather, isn't that also all you're risking?

Crews going after you abide by the same "rules" this game offers as you. But instead of learning/adapting you wish to alter the game itself...

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dutchyankee Your right it is...it is also abused, and unbalanced. So if they come up with a solution to fix it great.

What solution?

You haven't given me one...but then I suppose you consider PVP balanced and fun...so there is that.

See that question mark, he's asking for one. A question directed towards you.

Loot is in your possision once you dig it up/ kill a captain or catch an animal, the reward however isn't yours untill delivered at an outpost, by gamedesign. All what happens in between the gaining possesion of the loot and delivering it, is still part of your voyage.

PvP is also balanced; sloops can sink galleons, galleons can sink sloops, sloops can sink sloops and galleons can sink galleons. Just because you didn't see that ship coming for serveral minutes doesn't make it unbalanced, it just shows lack of experience. As many have stated already.

@Dragonsire2016 The easiest way to to look at loot and who it belongs to is this. If you wanted to pick up a 20$ bill 10 feet in front of you will you:
a: walk right to it and pick it up
b: walk around it go get a snack and come back and get it.

The reason I made this analogy is because you might think that YOU did all the work and it's yours but life isn't always fair. Look at it from the other peoples perspective, Sure they can go around and collect their own loot and take time doing that or they can walk right up to that crisp 20$ bill, You in this scenario, And take it. It's easier and faster sometimes to rob the loot then put in the work. BUT! That's why this game is great and balanced because it's not like the ships are lower in the water like some people requested or slower indicating that "This ship as loot rob it" You just never know what ship has or doesn't have treasure so you as the aggressor never really know until it's too late so you can go around and get the loot or take the risk and waste time on something fruitless. There is risk on both sides you just don't see the other 5 ships they sunk before you that had nothing.

@Sharkinos
I have to agree with @Ant-Heuser-Kush and @PersonalC0ffee on this matter.
This game is balanced all the way around.
Nothing in this game belongs to you except your ship. So you dig it up, fight for it, or cage it. You touched it first so at that time the game expects you to cash it in, but then someone else touches that same item now the game expects them to cash it in. This even applies to your stock on your ship. We can board other ships and eat their bananas, take their planks, and their cannon balls. Sloops with a 1-2 crew can sink galleons and kill 2-4 players. Galleon with a 2-4 crew can sink a 1-2 crew sloop.
As soon as you load the first chest, skull, or animal on your ship it is fair play.
I don’t not sail around looking for fights, but I know as a long time player that at any moment I could be engaged in battle. Always keep your guard up.
You have to always be watching out for everything. If you are on a server and you have seen 2 more sloops and 2 galleons with you have to assume at least one of those 4 will be pvp players.
I have sunk and been sunk so many times it’s hard to keep count. With every encounter it taught me how to better play the game.
Yes it makes you mad. Yes your grind can be someone else’s gain.
Many people don’t understand this game has a huge learning curve. It takes a while to learn and understand it. Until that time it will seem unbalanced and unfair.

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 I made a post/reply about risk vs reward.

It is balanced. I lose nothing, you lose nothing, it's not yours and it's not mine. Just because you spent 8 hours on a riddle it doesn't you get to turn it in and keep it.

The more loot you have on your ship, the higher the risk you take you. The more loot you have, the higher the reward you receive.

If I choose to pursue a ship, that is a risk. They may have nothing. What do I lose as the aggressor? My time. Is my time wasted as valuable as your time spent looking? That is subjective. However, we are both free to be the aggressor and only have our time wasted. It's pretty balanced if you play both the cat and the mouse.

When you decide to attack from that moment on is all that counts. What you did before that is on you. I risk looking what I have earned. The gold I spent to go earn it. My time fighting you etc.

You claim its no one's until sold..i would argue possession makes it mine. Most laws agree.

Yes, and when I sink your ship those possessions will transfer into my possession. That being said, they will be mine.

@lunar-craze said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 I made a post/reply about risk vs reward.

It is balanced. I lose nothing, you lose nothing, it's not yours and it's not mine. Just because you spent 8 hours on a riddle it doesn't you get to turn it in and keep it.

The more loot you have on your ship, the higher the risk you take you. The more loot you have, the higher the reward you receive.

If I choose to pursue a ship, that is a risk. They may have nothing. What do I lose as the aggressor? My time. Is my time wasted as valuable as your time spent looking? That is subjective. However, we are both free to be the aggressor and only have our time wasted. It's pretty balanced if you play both the cat and the mouse.

When you decide to attack from that moment on is all that counts. What you did before that is on you. I risk looking what I have earned. The gold I spent to go earn it. My time fighting you etc.

You claim its no one's until sold..i would argue possession makes it mine. Most laws agree.

Yes, and when I sink your ship those possessions will transfer into my possession. That being said, they will be mine.

That is how possession works.

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@ant-heuser-kush said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

@dragonsire2016 I made a post/reply about risk vs reward.

It is balanced. I lose nothing, you lose nothing, it's not yours and it's not mine. Just because you spent 8 hours on a riddle it doesn't you get to turn it in and keep it.

The more loot you have on your ship, the higher the risk you take you. The more loot you have, the higher the reward you receive.

If I choose to pursue a ship, that is a risk. They may have nothing. What do I lose as the aggressor? My time. Is my time wasted as valuable as your time spent looking? That is subjective. However, we are both free to be the aggressor and only have our time wasted. It's pretty balanced if you play both the cat and the mouse.

When you decide to attack from that moment on is all that counts. What you did before that is on you. I risk looking what I have earned. The gold I spent to go earn it. My time fighting you etc.

You claim its no one's until sold..i would argue possession makes it mine. Most laws agree.

The loot is deferred, that's not my opinion, it's how Rare designed the game. You can argue all you want but loot isn't yours until it's actually cashed in and you get the gold and rep for it.

It is mine. I just have been rewarded for it. We will have agree to not agree because I'm not arguing word play.

I don't attack ships but I can if I choose to. That is what makes Sea of Thieves, Sea of Thieves.

To bad so many people treat it as sea of psychotic murderers.

Nah, that would be GTA online. At least in this game they dont notify the whole lobby of what you have just achieved and give other players a reward just for distroying your work.

No doubt it's extremely frustrating to have someone take your find but there is much worse options.

@sharkinos said in A New Perspective on Griefing/Toxicity:

This post was supposed to be about how to cope with being attacked. Not about balance or fairness. I want see people responding to the orginl message.

This game is designed around PvEvP and other people being the threat, that mean that you will encounter people. They might be aggresive, friendly, friendly and then betray you. That's how the game has been designed and promoted. If you bought the game, you knew what you we're going into. A game where there will be other people that will try to attack you.

At this point you can do two things:

1. Just enjoy the game the way it is, a PvEvP
2. Quit. If you expected something else than described by the developers and don't like it, you didn't do your research before you bought the game and who's fault is that. All you can do then is learn from this experience and actually research a game before you buy it.

TLDR; Just deal with it, it's part of the gamedesign