The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase

  • Hey,

    It's been a while since I posted on the forums. For those that don't remember me, I've been very active on here during the alpha, then moved on to Discord late 2017. I founded Crew of Thieves and the Crewofthieves.com website in November. Currently, I am one of the admins of the Sea of Thieves Community Discord with over 31k members and owner of the Crew of Thieves Discord with over 2k members.

    Now one of the last real posts I made on the forums was about problems with the Insider Programme. Back then it got a lot of attention and I believe it changed the game and community a bit, so I'll try to do it again. I have spent a lot of time as Content Creator, Community leader and playing the game myself, as well as talking to others in similar positions before writing this post. The issues listed here do not only affect me and the team behind Crew of Thieves but are rather present for all dedicated people around Sea of Thieves.

    I do not want to talk about issues with the game itself here. There's quite a few of those, but they aren't even the main problem at this point.

    Let's start with Rare:

    When I first joined the forums, Rare seemed like very genuine developers that care a lot about both the game and the community around it. A lot of the dedicated players have defended them for months, even when the game got a lot of hate. Sadly, Rare never seems to value the people that have put time in to make their game more enjoyable for others or to give feedback on it.

    Pioneers

    This is a very recent issue, so I'll start with it. A lot of the pioneers were also the most dedicated people to this game. It is absolutely justified to start the programme up again and invite new people or kick inactive ones out. However, Rare broke their own rules and lied to the pioneers in the process, which is the real problem. This is everything but a respectful way to treat those that helped get this game to where it is now.

    Rare promised to inform anyone before kicking them out of pioneers, which didn't happen. You can tell us that it now is a "new" programme and that the old one was closed, but we all know that this is no excuse.
    https://imgur.com/Iq9CQfo

    We all kept our badges after the original pioneer forums were closed and got told that it isn't the end of pioneers. A week ago all of our badges suddenly disappeared. Support straight up lied to us when they got asked about it.
    https://imgur.com/aZnUI83

    And the statement @khaleesibot posted later completely ignores the fact that the pioneers aren't just some people that got to test new features, they are people with hundreds of forum posts, hours in the game and a ton of dedication to it. We do not demand the right to stay pioneers indefinitely, but a simple email to inform us about the changes would've already come a long way. This is not about the technicalities and we care little if you say this is a new Programme, it's a matter of respect.
    https://imgur.com/MSC0Z1m

    This is sadly not the first time Rare has shown a complete lack of understanding and respect for the dedicated people around their game. Giving easter eggs to a lot of people that have done great things and then giving one to a random streamer for doing something a lot of others have done before. The absolute Disaster which was the way they created their own Discord.

    Next big point is just the sheer amount of false promises Rare made and the unprofessionalism they have shown since the final beta.

    So many times dates for updates were announced (Hungering Deep as the most prominent example) and then changed or delayed. If you know you can't keep to it just don't announce a clear date in the first place.

    So many features that were promised to come (You can go through old dev videos and you are going to find a ton of them) aren't in the game.

    Sea of Thieves' social media situation is a lot of things, but not professional.

    The ideas of death tax and 4 man sloops showed a lack of understanding for the own game, as well as just a major disconnection from its community

    Hyping the Kraken up right before launch on Reddit when they knew it was absolutely underwhelming

    Looking at those things one-by-one they don't seem like too much of a problem, but if you really dedicate yourself to the game you'll realize how often they let you down or don't keep to what they say. Praising them for "taking their time to fix things" has its limits.

    Content Creation

    Rare really advertised Sea of Thieves as a great game for Content Creators. In-depth Mixer Integration, Support for fan websites, a dedicated Content Creator contact were promised to us.

    Guess how much of it ever happened?

    Nothing. Rare has pretty much not offered any support for content creators since launch. There's a reason why there's barely any websites dedicated to this game. Content Creators, which have created hundreds of videos on the game prior to launch have had relatively little support and can often be seen creating content for other games after a long record of Sea of Thieves only.
    The user, subscriber or viewer numbers show that Sea of Thieves isn't exactly a successful game on the Content Creators side. Again, we've been let down by a long record of false promises, ignorance and no support whatsoever.

    Communities

    By now there are quite a few big communities formed around the game. They give players the option to find like-minded pirates to play with, a place to talk about the game and share fan creations. Without these communities, a lot of people wouldn't be playing Sea of Thieves or would at least enjoy doing it a lot less.
    But once again there are problems.

    Most communities struggle to build a solid core of users. Sea of Thieves as a game offers little incentive to keep playing once you reach Pirate Legend or even Athenas 10 if you want to grind some more. This not only impacts players, who lose interest in the game even if they liked it but also communities. Often times, activity there is more based around the frequency of new users than around anything else. People stay dedicated to the game for a rather short amount of time, so clans and fleets have to fight for new people to fill the ranks as quickly as possible. This makes it hard and frustrating to build a solid community dedicated to the game.

    Again, communities receive barely any support from Rare. Events which take hours to prepare and run do not get any official recognition. These events are often a lot of fun for hundreds of participants, yet Rare can't even be bothered to respond to emails or help out at all.

    Overall, Rare has shown little respect or support for those that dedicate themselves to their game. Whether it is Pioneers, Content Creators or Communities, a lot of us are very frustrated by now. The people that moderate communities, produce funny videos, run the subreddit, give feedback and write guides are the ones that make it enjoyable for thousands of others. There's only so much we can do and only so many times we can be let down before we move on. It has come to a point where people with thousands of forum posts, hours in the game, community members and created videos are leaving the community.

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  • @m3m3nto-memes I remember the last post, it was good and we where able to get a response back then. However it was a different time, the devs where engaged in the community back then. Not so sure it will work this time.

    But i can't knock anything you have written, very well thought out and presented. Hopefully they actually take note. Im pretty salty over how they treated the ex-pioneers and not afraid to say it and i can see alot of others are aswell around the forums and discords. I hate it when devs just screw you over like that. Wildcard done it with Ark to when they promised they wouldn't delete servers for launch. Just such scummy practices.

    I just wish we had the old Rare back, not this new corporate Rare.

  • Arrrgh, aye!
    I don't wish to see any rewards or compensation in the game for Pioneering, but it'd be reasonable to expect that the original Pioneers that are still active and playing the game be welcomed back and given the opportunity to play-test, share feedback and propose ideas on the content at hand, once more. Likewise, for the future direction that this great ship of a game is being steered towards, much like they did originally.

    I have my own bitter experience in regards to Founder status and the way that thing was handled, and so I can relate to the unfortunate situation for some of the original playtesters.

  • Well said!

  • @knifelife said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    @m3m3nto-memes I remember the last post, it was good and we where able to get a response back then. However it was a different time, the devs where engaged in the community back then. Not so sure it will work this time.

    I just wish we had the old Rare back, not this new corporate Rare.

    Knifelife we may not agree on everything but I am tending to agree with you here. I feel like something happened between the first beta and launch that disconnected Rare from the community and it's very disappointing.

    Thanks for the well written post @M3M3nto-Memes, and thanks for putting so much time and passion into supporting the game.

    I hope that Rare understands that we feel this way because of our love for the game and what they have created.

  • @boredburrito87 said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    Knifelife we may not agree on everything but I am tending to agree with you here. I feel like something happened between the first beta and launch that disconnected Rare from the community and it's very disappointing.

    I can tell you what that is. Now they already have our money, so there is less need for them to worry about what the community thinks.

  • I don't participate in the community of the game very often, and a lot of these issues don't affect me personally, but the strength of the community surrounding the game is what has made it so much fun to play. These issues do impact the community adversely and I hope that Rare takes the time to listen and hear these as constructive criticism from people who love this game.
    Their lack of transparency and failure to keep deadlines and content is starting to remind me of Peter Molyneux's cycle of hype and disappointment around the Fable franchise. It was a fun series on its own, but if you followed the game and its promises about what would be included, you couldn't help being dissatisfied.
    Don't let that happen here.

  • @thewolfman321 said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    @boredburrito87 said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    Knifelife we may not agree on everything but I am tending to agree with you here. I feel like something happened between the first beta and launch that disconnected Rare from the community and it's very disappointing.

    I can tell you what that is. Now they already have our money, so there is less need for them to worry about what the community thinks.

    Starting to feel more and more like it..

  • @knifelife I know. I'm trying to hold onto my optimism, but these underwhelming updates and the poor first weekly event have me dreading the future. They seem to have completely slowed down and stopped the weekly updates, when there is SOOOOOO much more they NEED to add.

  • @thewolfman321 Yeah i honestly dont know what they have been doing recently, starting to wonder if they even do.

  • @mr-oranje Yes, we are reaching a point where the most dedicated people stopped playing a long time ago. Especially the disconnection between Rare and the community, which took place around the launch of the game has affected this. A lot of us really want to love this game, but just can't justify doing so anymore. Let's hope Rare sees this and changes things for the better. After all we just want to have a good time :)

  • @m3m3nto-memes The irony is alot of them where lingering in the background waiting for the pioneer sessions to come back so they could jump back into it.

  • I have a fairly small “Keelhauled” community but I think it’s one of the best communities for this game. I don’t read forums much or deep dive on news for most games as a service. Sea of Thieves has changed me on this. It’s by far the most I’ve ever dedicated my free time to a game ever.

    When Sea of Thieves was launching, there was teased “big things” for content creators. I waited with baited breathe to find out what that was. This was one day prior to launch mind you I had been making a podcast and streaming it for a while. I haven’t been contacted by anyone from Rare with regard to being a content creator and for what it’s worth I feel like the most dedicated podcast creator for the game.

    This weekend will mark my 20th episode and four months. I didn’t get wind of the game really till the end of January so I’m late to the party. I love this game enough to stream it, manage a discord server for it and release weekly podcast episodes covering anything and everything about the game solely.

    What I’m asking for is support and info from the team. I don’t think they have a PR person to reach out to make special events or help promote content creators trying to keep with the companies core beliefs.

    Most of my references are for Blizzard because they’re in my backyard and I know a lot of content creators and they have dedicated employees who are there to make sure content creators have stuff to give away, to promote, to info others with accurate information. I hope Rare looks into doing the same. The fans who make stuff for Sea of a Thieves are thirsty for attention because we love the game but everything we do is on our own. Rare please don’t leave is without a mermaid.

  • have to agree with all of you it seems like once Microsoft pushed them for release all the community feedback,pioneers hours of testing, and content creation and suggestions went in one ear and into the recycle bin. The content releases have been disjointed and rushed with little to no thought put into them at all. Unless they stop do a 180 and re think the direction they want the game to go they will end up loosing player base to skull & bones when its released.

  • @thewolfman321 I'm not even lvl 30 on each of the 3 companies, but I'm already tired of the game, I feel like I've seen all the content this game has to offer, and there's no point for me to continue playing just to buy awful overpriced cosmetics. It's a endless grind, but without the fun of grinding that others games offers. The Technical Alpha and Betas was fun af and all, it was a great time, but after the release, idk.

  • What streamer got an easter egg? And for what?

  • @knifelife I'm with @BoredBurrito87 and you on this one. The fun Rare of the alpha pre-Dec 1 was awesome. New content, supportive, and even engaging.

    @M3M3nto-Memes Excellent post. I have to agree having been a supporter since the first e3 2015 trailer and one of the first insiders. It's getting harder to play this game with the slow updates and missing content that got lost below decks. I love this game, but as an ignored long-time supporter (Again I've been here since 2015 and still haven't been called up to pioneers at all) and a mod in one of the biggest fleets in the game who helped prepare these community events, watching failure after failure takes a toll. I even left the forums for a while because they just got so negative and overrun. I'm back now and they seem a bit better, but the magic of alpha is just...gone.

  • @xcalypt0x think it was the guy who hit legend before anyone

  • @xcalypt0x Here I am referring to some female streamer who got an easter egg for shooting herself into a tavern. Compared to the easter eggs before that, which were either for cool achievements of community efforts, it was kind of a letdown. Especially because there were lots of people that could've been rewarded for other things

  • @danieltfs I'm the same matey.
    Also, every update makes me believe there will me more to do, or that they have fixed the game, but i'm just more and more disappointed. Don't get me wrong, the updates are fun. But to pay £50 for an empty game with 2 or less hours of content being release every 2 months, then I want a bloody refund!

  • Completely agree.

  • @m3m3nto-memes Must be Lindsay?

    As far as your post, I was never a pioneer but I've seen quite a few of them are upset and I feel bad for them. I have also seen people mention on a few occassions that devs used to be very active here which sounds like it used to be awesome. I'm not sure why Rare would want to isolate themselves from their most commited community members.

    I'm a member of Crew of Thieves, Fleet of Thieves, and Fortune but I mostly only lurk on discord and do all my posting here.

  • @xcalypt0x It was just a minor thing, to be honest, but it felt weird because before getting an easter egg took something special. Not trying to attack the streamer or anything. It used to be a lot different, but the sheer amount of new people changed things, which is not necessarily to blame on rare alone. It's easier to interact with a few hundred than a hundred thousand. Still we want some more of the things we once had

  • @knifelife said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    @thewolfman321 said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    @boredburrito87 said in The real Problems with Sea of Thieves and how they are affecting Communities, Content Creators and the playerbase:

    Knifelife we may not agree on everything but I am tending to agree with you here. I feel like something happened between the first beta and launch that disconnected Rare from the community and it's very disappointing.

    I can tell you what that is. Now they already have our money, so there is less need for them to worry about what the community thinks.

    Starting to feel more and more like it..

    Nah, it's the quadrupling of the player base. You can't just dev chat on a whim anymore i.e. 4man sloops. The spotlight is real now

  • It’s a game, play and have fun.

    No one owes you anything. You are heavily involved in the game because you like it and it brings you joy.

    That’s it.

    Rare don’t owe you squat. Don’t owe you an explanation. Don’t owe you a reply.

    99.9% of the “Community”
    Had never been here, never came to website, never logged into webpage.

    They just play the game so “we” aren’t the spokesman for them. We can’t convey how they feel or what they want.

  • @glannigan You're missing the point then. How are things going to change for the better if you approach them with this mindset?

  • @m3m3nto-memes I wholeheartedly agree on everything you said here.

  • @m3m3nto-memes

    I told someone earlier today that I wouldn’t post about this on the forum, so my apologies to my friends, but 100% agree with this post.

    I hate the White Knight reference used by some around here, but yes I have been, and still will continue to be, however……..

    I’m struggling very hard to be able to actively promote or defend the game at the moment. I’ve stayed away from the forums a bit recently, for obvious reasons, and my faith in Rare is still strong, but, starting to diminish.

    I will continue to play every single opportunity I can, as I have done for more hours than I should, for the past year and a half. However the let down now is starting to feel real ☹.

    I have seen first hand the passion in the studio, and the abilities they hold, I know the magic of the game, but, for some reason I can’t touch on, that passion from the studio seems to be lacking for me right now.

    I've made some amazing friends through this game, and had many, many crazy experiences, and fun evenings, but there is something just not clicked into place recently from Rare.

  • @m3m3nto-memes
    very well written. Thanks for that. It seems to be a bigger problem than I thought it was, if even someone like you, who's usualy a very nice person, can get so worked up over it. (well, at least to me you were surprisingly nice :D )

    I have to say, I agree with everything you said.

  • @j4dio The reason I am speaking out about this now is that I felt that we reached a point where even the most dedicated of people are losing their drive. Rare has shown us in the past how excited they are for this game and everything around it. The launch was surely overwhelming, with a shift from a small community to the huge open world. I do believe however that they can only improve if we speak up about the things we aren't happy about, so I thank you for this post :)

  • I agree to what you said there. I did not know this happened to the pioneers, but the lack of communication is really a problem then... I hope they will recognise this error they made.

  • @captainzazuo We all do, thanks for the support :)

  • I was actually put in contact with someone since I stream the game very frequently on Twitch and have not received any replies back since March.

  • well said bud, cant fault a thing. This is accurate and hope that the DEV's or teams wake up and realise what is happening here and in the game.

  • @A-Trusty-Mango Please refrain from profanity and personal attacks in your posts, as well as making statements designed to create unrest. These are violations of our Forum rules, and your post has been edited accordingly.

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