Fix Red Sea exploit - move the loot back into the play area.

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to gaming area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to gaming area.:

The Red Sea is there so that we don’t have invisible walls - it is the SoT version of “Return to Combat Area”. If you stay, you sink and will not be able to prevent that from occurring. It’s purpose is to keep people in the play area. It’s purpose is not to provide place to dump loot so that nobody can get to it without the game trying to sink them for being out of bounds. If a player is going to lose loot and is willing to sink rather than fight, they should just surrender or scuttle their ship. Taking the loot off the board is simply being a poor loser.

An easy fix for this exploit: if a ship with loot sinks in the Red Sea, the loot is teleported in a straight line back to the play area and birds appear over it, so that it can be found by others or eventually respawn.

How is this an exploit? This is how the game works. The ship you were chasing had his loot on-board and you are not good enough to take it.
I'd say it is you that is the bad loser here.

Your belief, then, is that the Red Sea was designed with intentionally taking loot out of the play area in mind? You believe that was the devs intent in creating the Red Sea?

I think it's all "Pirate", no matter which way you wish to play it.
Good tactics if nothing else... , why surrender?
I will dispose of my booty in the Red Sea if I like.
A tactic of last resort of course, drive-bys a preferred option.

Me sitting here knowing that the "red sea" is actually called the Devil's shroud

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to gaming area.:
Your belief, then, is that the Red Sea was designed with intentionally taking loot out of the play area in mind? You believe that was the devs intent in creating the Red Sea?

Not at all but the red sea indicates the edge of the map.

Video game exploit

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

Who are you to say that he is a loser when you are the one here complaining that you were not good able to catch him for yourself?

Let’s not make assumptions here. I am a solo sloop player that very rarely chases anything. If, however, I am being chased and can’t get away, I either surrender or scuttle the ship. Or, I dump loot in the sea as a ploy to get them to stop chasing me. But, I have never taken my loot out of play for the sole purpose of depriving another player of it. That’s not what the Red Sea was designed for.

It isn't an exploit, it's a feature available to all. Because you don't care for the way others use an in-game feature that is available to you isn't a sound reason to make a change like adding teleportation of loot.

So lets see...
Teleporting Booty from a ship in the Red Sea that you have been chasing, to basically your location.
Introducing that dynamic to the game... wouldn't be an exploit in itself ?

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

The Red Sea is there so that we don’t have invisible walls - it is the SoT version of “Return to Combat Area”. If you stay, you sink and will not be able to prevent that from occurring. It’s purpose is to keep people in the play area. It’s purpose is not to provide place to dump loot so that nobody can get to it without the game trying to sink them for being out of bounds. If a player is going to lose loot and is willing to sink rather than fight, they should just surrender or scuttle their ship. Taking the loot off the board is simply being a poor loser.

An easy fix for this exploit: if a ship with loot sinks in the Red Sea, the loot is teleported in a straight line back to the play area and birds appear over it, so that it can be found by others or eventually respawn.

....so you want to just get free loot? For doing what? Not playing smarter?

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@pure-rare said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to gaming area.:
Your belief, then, is that the Red Sea was designed with intentionally taking loot out of the play area in mind? You believe that was the devs intent in creating the Red Sea?

Not at all but the red sea indicates the edge of the map.

Video game exploit

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

Who are you to say that he is a loser when you are the one here complaining that you were not good able to catch him for yourself?

Let’s not make assumptions here. I am a solo sloop player that very rarely chases anything. If, however, I am being chased and can’t get away, I either surrender or scuttle the ship. Or, I dump loot in the sea as a ploy to get them to stop chasing me. But, I have never taken my loot out of play for the sole purpose of depriving another player of it. That’s not what the Red Sea was designed for.

Okay Mr internet.

You've conceded that the devs didn't create the Red Sea as a mechanic with the intent of players using it to take their loot out of play. It's an exploit.

Say they were an inexperienced crew who were at full sail going into the wind and did not realise they were heading off the map and did not have the resources to repair in time?

That is a scenario that falls outside what we're talking about here right? They aren't intentionally using the Red Sea to dump their loot. And, if they were out there accidentally, their loot would be back in the play area where they could recover it if they got their fast enough.

@nightmare247365 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in [Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.]

That’s not what the Red Sea was designed for.

Forts were not designed to be completed by 1 crew only. Forts were not designed to be contested constantly, they were designed to work together and have more loot than 1 ship could hold.

How do you know that they weren't "designed to be completed by 1 crew." And, even if they weren't, doing it as 1 crew is not taking advantage of an exploit... it doesn't provide you with an advantage.

They were designed to be contested constantly - there's a bloody skull in the sky and the devs believe in respawning and taking revenge. They have done what they can to not have that revenge taken literally a minute or two later, but... they did explicitly state they want players to be able to regroup and take revenge.

Servers were not designed to be hopped to and from.

The Ferry of the Damned was not designed to be a place where a player can AFK for others to do their missions.

Pirate Legend was not designed for a Streamer to have everyone just invite him to their completed voyages, but yet they did.

Listing other possible exploits doesn't mean this isn't an exploit.

The point is this game was designed with quite a bit in mind and many things that were designed one way are being used another.

Yes. But, theft is a fundamental aspect of this game. Getting a game mechanic - intended to keep people in the play area - to do what you couldn't (protect your loot from theft) is an exploit.

@angrycoconut16 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak If a pirate wants to destroy their ship so that no one (including them) can use their loot, that is a choice the player makes. If players want to stop me from turning in my loot at an outpost, meaning I get 0 reward then why on earth can't I do the same to them?

Because theft is a fundamental aspect of the game. If you can't protect your loot, it gets stolen - that's the intended design. Isn't it?

@lizardspider said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:
If you can't protect your loot, it gets stolen - that's the intended design.

What if, placing the treasure in a part of the sea where you simply can't get it is protecting it from you?

Losing it is not successfully protecting it.

@lizardspider said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@lizardspider said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:
If you can't protect your loot, it gets stolen - that's the intended design.

What if, placing the treasure in a part of the sea where you simply can't get it is protecting it from you?

Losing it is not successfully protecting it.

I think that's a point of view really. It's like saying I'll burn down my farm before I let you government hacks take it. It's protecting your farm, because you're the one getting the choice in the final action. Plus it has the reputation bonus, because then the chasers now know it's not worth it to pursue, as any loot will simply be squandered. It is a strategy, just one you don't like.

Burning down your farm is not protecting it... it is burning it down.

It's not the best tactic to sail out their to sink, I even said Cowardly.
I have only done it once with the Fort key, solo Sloop, but it wasn't my plan to sink.
I planed on the Sloop to follow me, they try to board, an then Ill sail out again.
an it work, the other Sloop followed me, an sank out there.
an I got all the fort loot ;)

Ill would rather like, that all loot that sink's in the water, that its gonna get pulled to a Davy Jones character, that gonna pop up with all sunken treasure an key.
that way we get another mini boss, more fighting an more fun, an some will get the change to get there loot back.

@angrycoconut16 Duplicating an off-topic post isn't going to make me reply to it.

@greencamillion1 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

It's not the best tactic to sail out their to sink, I even said Cowardly.
I have only done it once with the Fort key, solo Sloop, but it wasn't my plan to sink.
I planed on the Sloop to follow me, they try to board, an then Ill sail out again.
an it work, the other Sloop followed me, an sank out there.
an I got all the fort loot ;)

I'm all for a game of chicken. But, the loot should still end up back in the play area for the winner.

@angrycoconut16 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak But it isn't an off topic. The entire reason this thread was made in the first place is because people are doing this because of the current reward structure. I don't want to discuss it here, I'm just trying to get you to understand the consequences of the reward system and WHY people would feel the need to travel to the red sea in the first place. It shouldn't be a case of 'oh they are doing this, oh whatever, lets patch it', actually try to understand why players, most of whom I'm sure are perfectly decent people who don't mind the concept of loss, would feel the need to take such a spiteful measure in the first place. This is an opportunity to address several problems at once.

I'll be honest, I'm with you, I totally understand why dumping loot in the red sea probably is not what the devs intended, and why it ruins the core principles of the game, and why it ought to probably be removed..

But the thing is, I also completely understand WHY people want to do it in the first place. So for what it's worth I will defend peoples right to do this. In general the SoT community is full of people who are a hell of a lot nicer than people in other gaming communities. So why would these people want to do this in the first place? Think about it...

Taking your loot off the board is not about your loss... it is lost to you anyway; it is about the gain of another player. If a player is going to the Red Sea to dump their loot because they don't like the reward system, what does that have to do with the other player? The other player didn't create the reward system, did they? Taking your loot off the board is an exploit, it's cheap, it's lazy, it's lame, and, as you say, it goes against the core principles of the game: if you can't protect your loot, it can get stolen.

Meanwhile there are ships attacking for the express reason of just sinking a ship. People spawning in to drop your loot off the back and laugh maniacally.

We of course are assuming that a vessel going into the Red Sea has any Booty, sometimes it's not worth the fight, sometimes if someone has been chasing you across the map it's just nice to waste their time. Sometimes PvP is pointless, sometimes PvP can become a grind. Sometimes you just want to PvE. Everyone plays the game differently... and I choose not to tell anyone else how they should play "their" game.

@draun25 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

Meanwhile there are ships attacking for the express reason of just sinking a ship. People spawning in to drop your loot off the back and laugh maniacally.

Nothing can be done about the former, and, I believe, they are working on the latter.

@piratecraggy said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

We of course are assuming that a vessel going into the Red Sea has any Booty, sometimes it not worth the fight, sometimes if someone has been chasing you across the map it's just nice to waste their time. Sometimes PvP is pointless, sometimes PvP can become a grind. Sometimes you just want to PvE. Everyone plays the game differently... and I choose not to tell anyone else how they should play "their" game.

No. We are only talking about taking loot and intentionally sinking yourself with it in the Red Sea.

I also find it nice, on occasion, to waste a ship's time if they want to chase me with no loot. I try to run them into rocks, and play "who's the better sailor." But, when I get bored, I just scuttle. If people want to use the Red Sea as a more elaborate version of scuttling their ship in a chase, that's fine by me, but, if you have loot, that loot should be teleported back into the play area where it can be stolen. Just as it would be if you scuttled inside the play area.

@entspeak ....and I choose not to tell anyone else how they should play "their" game.