5. [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4

[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4

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    @combatxkitty Yeah it's the classic response of "Sea of Thieves is (inserts his own idea of what the game is), you don't know how to play it" that I hear all the time on these forums from those people. It is ridiculous. I'd rather go by how the game has been defined and described, which is "a shared world adventure". Thanks to these people though it has turned into Tom Clancy's Pirate Warfare, even though the game has no stat tracking like you mention. If Rare doesn't want to reign this in and fix the problems, then they need to change the description of the game, apologize to, and reimburse a lot of people.

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    @greaseman85 Yep they sure do. No KDR? Sorry its not a soley based PvP game. This is not For Honor: Pirates Edition this is Sea of Theives. I play PvP games but why would I waste my time going around killing people in a game without kill stat tracking? I have GTAO and other games where kills count towards something to do that in. I didn't buy this game for the PvP. I don't mind it being there and will partake if I must but I actually bought this as a break from true PvP games. It has been a very enjoyable break for me.

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    Well if no one else agrees about having a safe zone or 2, I'll agree with the other conversation being had about bounties. Let me spend my gold and someone else can go and kill someone for me. (bounty collectible at an inn when finished) but as I said in my thread, it would be really nice to have a list of players on my server at any given time.

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    I see this thread has been re-created. Guess I'll say this again, though I know it has already been said: there can be little balance between Exploration and Combat until there is something worth Exploring for. People explore in games for many reasons, but it general boils down to 4 things: loot, lore, easter eggs, and the view.

    Currently the Loot you will find in many of these areas is, well, random. You never know if you'll find anything at all and most of the time it's not worth the time to check through all the caves. A quick run of the island will generally net you a couple Kegs and that's about it.

    Lore, unfortunately, is almost completely nonexistent in-game. There's a couple hints at things but otherwise you have no real information about the Sea Of Thieves itself. You have islands with ruins on/under them with tribal paintings on the rocks, but there is zero in-game way of finding out anything about this. Same with the Kraken, or any expansive info on the Factions. It's a beautiful world but it's populated by nobody but skeletons and no real reason for it. Giving players ways to discover more ABOUT the Lore would give them reasons to explore.

    Easter Eggs in this game do exist, but to be honest I haven't found many by actually Exploring the islands. More often I find them in the Ports themselves, and that's just a failed opportunity in my head. And as for the view, well, you can generally get a beautiful one from the Crow's Nest.

    Right now I can only think that some type of additional Company based around Explorers be introduced which challenges you to search islands and solve puzzles directly tied to the lore of the game be added soon. These would give players ways of learning more about the Sea and it's inhabitants (or lack thereof) and perhaps make the world seem more alive than it currently does. Journals, tribal stories, artifacts, all these could lead to more players using the world for their entertainment rather than each other.

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    Master
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    I would like to address and explain my thoughts on “separate” servers and their impact on the SoT community:

    I believe Rare should stick to their mantra of NEVER splitting the player base, and server segmentation will do just that.

    I also believe this attitude is endemic to a group of people who can’t cope with conflict (grieving or no) and would rather have their own little sanitized world to play in. To that I say Arrrrrgggggggg!!!!!

    Got bested? Keep sailing, you’ll learn and get better.

    Can’t solo? Join some communities and find that perfect crew.

    THIS is part of the content folks - self improvement and relationship building, but alas, that is a subject for a whole separate post (which I’d be happy to write).

    Please stop asking for a server for this and a server for that...

    Rare is also trying to deliver new and hopefully exciting content on a regular basis, how do you think that is going to play out if they have to keep creating and maintaining all these little safe-space pockets as well?

    May you always have the wind at your back!

    Keep Sailing!

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    @combatxkitty said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @xpvtx LOL I don't get SOT? Ok you keep thinking this is a PvP game. PvE exists in this game because this is an open world adventure game and you level up via PvE quests and even the dullest pencils in the box realize that. Reaching pirate legend is met via completing PvE quests not PvP, there isn't even a KDR in this game. Of course there needs to be PvP aspects to the game because NPC's are not enough to keep the game challenging with risk and suspenseful but acting like PvE is here to prop up PvP is ignorant. Sorry to burst your bubble, you can move along now.

    Also I'm not missing out on anything. I play the game how I want and not how some sexist know it all on a message board wants me to.

    Overwatch doesn't have a KDR. Does that mean Overwatch is not a PvP game? Do you know what PvP stands for? Reaching Pirate Legend occurs when you reach level 50 with all 3 factions in the game and aside from the Sharks and Krakens, you don't have to PvE to accomplish this. Literally, the only forced PvE comes from the Kraken and the Sharks. You don't have to chase pigs or engage skeletons if you don't want to. PvE in this game is a very basic mechanism that generates non-character bound items to encourage PvP encounters.

    I'm not a sexist by the way. I just have a sense of humor. You wouldn't know that of course because you don't know me just like I don't know that you're actually a woman. Doesn't matter, I'm certain you're always getting offended by something and consider everything to be sexist, racist, bigoted, xenophobic, etc...

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    @xpvtx When I think of a good PvP game I think PUBG, COD, For Honor, games where killing the other opponent is the reward and you get stats for it, sorry I do not think SOT. SOT is not that but you can keep thinking it is if it makes you happy.

    Im starting to wonder if you have actually ever played SOT? I mean actually play it and do quest instead of just sail around killing people like you are a COD pirate. Im just wondering because you do have to PvE to reach level 50 in all factions, you dont have to PvP to and no sharks and the kraken are not the only opponents. You say that you only have to engage skeletons if you want to or chase pigs if you want to, I mean sure you dont have to chase pigs or kill skeletons but then you arnt going to level up and unlock anything in the game or reach pirate legend are you? It seems like you really have a lack of understanding of SOT. Really not much else to say. Good luck reaching pirate legend not killing skeltons or chasing pigs, tell me how that goes? lol. Of course unless you dont plan on leveling up which is the point of this game.

    So what is your argument now? This isnt a PVE game because according to you there is no forced PvE? Well there is no forced PvP so I guess it isnt a PvP game either according to your logic.

    Also sorry but the fact you cant respect that fact that I am a female gamer and that it is so unbelievable to you makes you sexist as hell. I dont care what you say. Im not a sensitive person but as a girl gamer im sick of having to deal with guys like you.

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    Hey you dont have to do pve to lvl factions. Taking ppls loot and turning it in works the same. Aside from the quest to obtain legendary status. It would take forever but its possible on pvp alone

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    I said it would take forever. But its possible is all im saying

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    @nwo-azcrack That would actually be fun to see how long it takes.

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    @combatxkitty
    Ya im not trying it. We will be playing SoT 3 before someone accomplishes that. I like the pve side of the game. Successfully defending my loot is a piece of the game i really enjoy

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    @nwo-azcrack Maybe we can get @xPVTx to volunteer.

    I am like you. I enjoy the PvE but also I do like having PvP in the mix. That is why I have never been for PvE only servers. The games for me needs the PvP in it to keep the PvE from getting too repetitive and also we need suspense. Without the PvP I feel like the game would get boring.

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    @combatxkitty
    I truly feel like the pve problems will be fixed as the game fills out. Weekly events equal more things to do. I feel like pve servers would hurt the community more than it would help. That fear of constant threat and the paranoia are what make this game special. For me at least

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    @fancypantzmcgee said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    Maybe I am missing something. I'm a long time gamer, from back in the Texas instrument days. I say this to point out I recall the day and age when a game was just how it was. You had two buttons and a joy stick, c**p graphics and limited options for things you could actually do. We also didn't have other players to play against. All games were PvE. Then MMOs came out, and early on I loved them (DAOC anyone?). Why? In truth I hate playing against other players, and I love playing with other players. PvE coop. SoT is limited on environmental, NPC enemies. And it had me scared at first, but after playing awhile now, I dig it.

    I'm ok if a 4 man galleons come and wrecks me when I'm a single man sloop. I like that I feel I need to fly like the wind to get my booty and go. I like it because the best AI will never beat real intelligence.

    Think the old book 'The Most Dangerous Game'. Hunting other players presents the best challenge. Defending against those hunters is the best challenge.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I get that there are jerky PvP players that can make being a PvE player frustrating, but please instead of begging the game change or create PvE servers why not just accept the PvPers are part of the environment and you need to just get good.

    I get the come backs and rebuttals people have. I play SoT with my 10 y.o. on the spectrum son, who is crushed when we get mugged and destroyed by PvPers, and it makes me furious. Furious that he is so upset by it, not furious at the game and not at the other players. Except you s***s with the esp hacks and targeting hacks, you are just wastes of skin and oxygen. A good game should challenge you, you should win some and lose some. Sounds to me like Rare is doing fine. I'm more than halfway to pirate legend in under a few weeks with minimal play and hardly any of it PvP. When PvP forces itself on me and I lose, I feel no different than when that d**k black Knight for Demon souls would kill me with on hit. I'm p****d but determined to figure out how to beat it. Isn't that the point though?

    Thank you for taking the time to write this. Excellent post ! You are so right in so many ways. I wish more players would take the time to work through things instead of just throwing in the towel, or expecting Rare to change their vision. I wish more players would realize that losing loot or getting sunk just isn't that big of a deal. People need to do a better job of managing expectations in a game called Sea of Thieves.

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    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @combatxkitty Yeah it's the classic response of "Sea of Thieves is (inserts his own idea of what the game is), you don't know how to play it" that I hear all the time on these forums from those people. It is ridiculous. I'd rather go by how the game has been defined and described, which is "a shared world adventure". Thanks to these people though it has turned into Tom Clancy's Pirate Warfare, even though the game has no stat tracking like you mention. If Rare doesn't want to reign this in and fix the problems, then they need to change the description of the game, apologize to, and reimburse a lot of people.

    I can't help but sit here and wonder what you expected from a game called Sea of Thieves. Not even Sea of Pirates, or Pirate World, or World of Pirates, but Sea of Thieves. THIEVES !
    Thief : a person who steals another person's property
    Pirate: a person who attacks and robs ships at sea.
    And yet here we are. With a few people that wanna play a pirate ( person who attacks and robs ships at sea) game called Sea of Thieves ( people who steal another persons property) and we have people that want to opt out of the primary function of the game.

    I want a hamburger, Hold the bun, meat patty, tomato, pickles and mustard.
    Guess what i really wanted was a salad because all that's left is the lettuce.

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    Master
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    Add Co-Op events and activities that you can participate in with other crews. Maybe liar's dice, fishing, easter egg hunting on an island or pistol duels. The liar's dice tables, fishing holes, etc. should be hidden in once inhabited caverns and shipwrecks around the world in order to make finding the activities half the fun.

    EDIT: A truce option for these activities would be good as you couldn't harm the other players during the activities.

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    Things are getting too heated, and I would like to remind everyone to treat each other with respect, avoid namecalling, and adhere to the community guidelines when discussing hot button topics. Continued violation of the rules, including attacking or belittling others, will result in deletions and potentially bans. Please be awesome to each other and remember that this community is for everyone, regardless of if you agree on something.

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    Would changing the server matchmaking help?
    Putting people with low ranks in servers together more often with an algorithm.

    That way the core of the game isn't changed. PvP still but this gives the chance for more adept or even highly skilled players to combat each other;
    and not frustrate/ruin someone's long and entertaining voyage. When they are just learning how to play the game.
    Are people really going to delete their pirate just to ruin the fun of some new players?
    No; But they are free and able to join multiple servers; which increases the chance of them causing havoc for no apparent reason other than. "It's apart of the game environment"
    To what, be constantly hostile to everyone you run across?

    TL;DR

    • Don't change a thing with PvP (aside from balance tweaks)
    • Change the matchmaking to put pirates in/around the same rank in the same server.
    • This would prevent new players from quitting the Sea of Thieves due to frustrating encounters with other crews.
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    You could give us the option to host our own games, if possible. Back in the early days of Xbox Live, online multiplayer meant someone hosted the session. Sure that introduced issues such as lag, and people would accuse good players of having host advantage, but in this game that would probably not be an issue. Let us host private games on our own Xbox if we just want to play with friends or alone. You can get rid of skull fort events, those should be PvP-mode only.

    I honestly can't understand the insistence that this game must offer only one game mode and only one server type for it to function. No other game operates this way, and no other game has been hurt by giving players options. The arguments against this suggestion are asinine. If you're going to argue that it is against Rare's vision or this is not the core of the game, well, it is time to admit the vision cannot be realized with a toxic player base and the core of the game is broken and in need of major improvements. Besides, lots of other games have changed from their core design and deviated from their initial vision. Stop acting like this game is gospel or something and cannot be touched.

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    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    You could give us the option to host our own games, if possible. Back in the early days of Xbox Live, online multiplayer meant someone hosted the session. Sure that introduced issues such as lag, and people would accuse good players of having host advantage, but in this game that would probably not be an issue. Let us host private games on our own Xbox if we just want to play with friends or alone. You can get rid of skull fort events, those should be PvP-mode only.

    I honestly can't understand the insistence that this game must offer only one game mode and only one server type for it to function. No other game operates this way, and no other game has been hurt by giving players options. The arguments against this suggestion are asinine. If you're going to argue that it is against Rare's vision or this is not the core of the game, well, it is time to admit the vision cannot be realized with a toxic player base and the core of the game is broken and in need of major improvements. Besides, lots of other games have changed from their core design and deviated from their initial vision. Stop acting like this game is gospel or something and cannot be touched.

    The truth is, the most toxic people are the one's that can't accept the game as is and keep complaining over, and over and over instead of learning how to handle or avoid situations in the game.

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    @trickrtreat01 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    You could give us the option to host our own games, if possible. Back in the early days of Xbox Live, online multiplayer meant someone hosted the session. Sure that introduced issues such as lag, and people would accuse good players of having host advantage, but in this game that would probably not be an issue. Let us host private games on our own Xbox if we just want to play with friends or alone. You can get rid of skull fort events, those should be PvP-mode only.

    I honestly can't understand the insistence that this game must offer only one game mode and only one server type for it to function. No other game operates this way, and no other game has been hurt by giving players options. The arguments against this suggestion are asinine. If you're going to argue that it is against Rare's vision or this is not the core of the game, well, it is time to admit the vision cannot be realized with a toxic player base and the core of the game is broken and in need of major improvements. Besides, lots of other games have changed from their core design and deviated from their initial vision. Stop acting like this game is gospel or something and cannot be touched.

    The truth is, the most toxic people are the one's that can't accept the game as is and keep complaining over, and over and over instead of learning how to handle or avoid situations in the game.

    The truth is, you need to get out of this thread as all you're doing is attacking others for ideas that don't affect you. You have not added anything constructive.

    Where the hell are the mods when you need them?

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    @kenji-salk said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    Things are getting too heated, and I would like to remind everyone to treat each other with respect, avoid namecalling, and adhere to the community guidelines when discussing hot button topics. Continued violation of the rules, including attacking or belittling others, will result in deletions and potentially bans. Please be awesome to each other and remember that this community is for everyone, regardless of if you agree on something.

    Here is a thought. You guys have made an amazing game. You nailed it perfectly and the majority of players are happy. The vocal minority you see here on the forums are clearly in the wrong game. This was marketed as a game where you get loot, either from quests or other players. People playing this game should have well expected to have their ships sunk and loot stolen. I think it's time that Rare steps in and lets people know that this is how the game is.

    You are going to lose players no matter what you do. If you offer up safe zones or PVE only servers or let people opt out of PVP then your core group of players will leave. So stick to your guns, literally and figuratively and let them know that this is how the game was meant to played. It's not a PVE only game. PVE players are exaggerating their losses to get their way. I encourage you to reiterate there will never be PVE servers. It would go a long way in settling this and stop some of the arguing. Your reluctance to alienate PVE players is alienating the people who wanted PVP and PVE.

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    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @trickrtreat01 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    You could give us the option to host our own games, if possible. Back in the early days of Xbox Live, online multiplayer meant someone hosted the session. Sure that introduced issues such as lag, and people would accuse good players of having host advantage, but in this game that would probably not be an issue. Let us host private games on our own Xbox if we just want to play with friends or alone. You can get rid of skull fort events, those should be PvP-mode only.

    I honestly can't understand the insistence that this game must offer only one game mode and only one server type for it to function. No other game operates this way, and no other game has been hurt by giving players options. The arguments against this suggestion are asinine. If you're going to argue that it is against Rare's vision or this is not the core of the game, well, it is time to admit the vision cannot be realized with a toxic player base and the core of the game is broken and in need of major improvements. Besides, lots of other games have changed from their core design and deviated from their initial vision. Stop acting like this game is gospel or something and cannot be touched.

    The truth is, the most toxic people are the one's that can't accept the game as is and keep complaining over, and over and over instead of learning how to handle or avoid situations in the game.

    The truth is, you need to get out of this thread as all you're doing is attacking others for ideas that don't affect you. You have not added anything constructive.

    Where the hell are the mods when you need them?

    Rather than argue, let me ask what particular problem you are now experiencing in the game. Please be specific. There are ways to go about things in the game to counter almost any problem without having to change the premise of the game.

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    Master
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    @Trickrtreat01 Don't quote a game dev.

    You are going to lose players no matter what you do. If you offer up safe zones or PVE only servers or let people opt out of PVP then your core group of players will leave. So stick to your guns, literally and figuratively and let them know that this is how the game was meant to played. It's not a PVE only game. PVE players are exaggerating their losses to get their way. I encourage you to reiterate there will never be PVE servers. It would go a long way in settling this and stop some of the arguing. Your reluctance to alienate PVE players is alienating the people who wanted PVP and PVE.

    You're going to lose potential growth of the game's population by having PvP.

    If I were just learning Sea of Thieves; I'd totally be overwhelmed with the gorgeous scenery and fantastic lighting effects; let alone the intermediate knowledge of the boat/weapons/supplies and all of your tools.
    It would be exciting for me to complete my first voyage, even if all I found were a castaways chest.
    What's not exciting or thrilling is being chased halfway across the map because more experienced (bored) players are seeking to steal my hard work.
    That type of action would turn off the average player from continuing to play.
    Yes. It is easy to tell them. "Well just take it as a lesson. Try better next time."
    But that doesn't seem to be valid when the game is rated 12+

    Even if you claim there are those who exaggerate their losses. The fact that losing your loot to some try-hard pirates is still a common complaint.
    I mean voyage loot.
    Not the Skull fort events.
    Just general hostility from every other crew. And no consequences.
    I am aware Rare wanted crews to work together and choose which pirate they will be.
    But a large player base chose to be hostile. Giving everyone that lesson. Take no prisoners

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    Playing since the later betas... It was an exceptional experience, but now not so much! Running solo the past few weeks is next to impossible. No matter how careful you are to the seas around you while exploring an island (especially the larger time consuming ones) it USUALLY ends badly. Sunk or stolen ship! I watched a galleon one day in the same group of islands go back and forth island to island. Couldnt figure out what they were up too. But know it wasnt good. First island i landed at, ship stolen. Scuttled it. Traveled back to the area. Second island, galleon still going back and forth between islands, ship stolen. Fast traveled this time and person was looking all around the ship. Shot the scoundrel. So now it appears with all the other shenanigans going on in this game add galleons dropping off crew members on random islands.

    Crew cleared out a skull fort wave 1 to completion. Sitting there bring the items back to our ship. Galleon comes in just barely reachable by cannon balls. We both took a few hits. It "sunk". Well no it didnt they scuttled out there so we could not see the mermaid. 3 swam into the island the 4th i assume took the ferry back to get another ship loaded with supplies. The 3 that swam in killed us. Spawn back on the ship killed, spawn back on the ship killed. Scuttled it.

    Completely understand the importance of PVP. It makes it unpredictable and brings a level of excitement to the game. But seems like you cant do anything anymore without confrontation (or being worried about some of these crazy shenanigans i've been seeing). When your running a 1 man sloop its becoming close to impossible ("hardcore" or not) and who wants to play for a few hours just to have some salty sea dogs come and destroy you within seconds?

    I am liking a few ideas i am reading in these forums...

    Keep track of players habits. Quests completed vs. Treasure stolen vs. Ships stolen /sunk. Put like minded pirates together on a server. If they all just go around sinking and plundering each other and no one is willing to do quests it will get old quick. But they can have bunches of fun sinking each other.

    Put the attacking ship further away at re-spawn if sunk or give them a ship without supplies. Would give the ship that did all the labor time to reclaim lost loot.

    It just seems to me that this game has evolved to more seek and plunder than it was. Possibly because people are just fed up with trying to do quests to come away with nothing. The trust factor is gone. Our crew was a wait to be shot at then return fire. But now if it is not immediately known what the intentions are, we dont wait to find out.

    The last thought these folks are already tired with quests? So hunting down and plundering quest folks is more entertaining. Either way there has to be some kind of balance figured out on these servers. An occasional conflict is great fun, but it has become the norm and frustrating.

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    @crusher554 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    I'm not supporting PvE or safe zones, but there needs to be law. There's pirate code, but you can laugh and burn it while nothing happens. There needs to be code enforcement of some kind. I get that merchant sailors faced these dangers, but it was also illegal to attack other ships. In this game, attacking other ships is supported by law. If there was a motive to not attack random people for no reason, this wouldn't be an issue. Like I said previously in another forum topic, PvP should feel like an event. It should feel very intense and very special. PvP is just an annoyance in this game because there's no reason for it and there's no motivation to help anyone. You don't get gold. You get a warm feeling in your heart. What a great reward right. there's also no exploration in this game. It's all water and a few islands which are mostly covered in rocks or ground which cannot be walked on. The majority of caves are corridors leading outside again, or empty rooms with no purpose. The uncharted islands are embarrassing to even think about. No animals, no lore, no nothing. It's a pointless island that's mysteriously not on the map.. probably cause it has nothing. Combat is really strange because most of the ship cannot be damaged. The main mast is the most important part of a boat but the masts are invulnerable. I'm not sure if you guys realised, but the sloop cannot be damaged on the lower deck In the back. I'm not sure why you filled the smallest ship with mostly empty space when the only thing missing from the galleon is the bilge. Also I have to say that the ship combat is very basic. You shoot holes, their boat floods. That's the only way to sink them. There's no damage to sails or the rudder or even ship fatigue from getting shot so much. There's no speed loss from ship damage. There's really no ship damage, just a few things you can fully repair with a wooden plank. There needs to be more to destroying or sinking a ship. At last, I just want to say that the fact that you can't challenge the other crew and board them. It's just silly video game nonsense. No sunken ship is going to have treasure that 1. Floats to the surface of the ocean 2. Is worth anything after being shot with cannons and drowned with water.

    What I also find funny is that this line got removed after the second thread:

    One of the most important topics, the topic of inclusion as we all want to make sure that Sea of Thieves appeals to as many gamers as possible and everyone enjoys the game regardless of their own personal motivations.

    I guess Rare stopped caring about that, because this community sure as heck hasn't been inclusive of those who dislike PvP being the dominating feature.

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    @seeker-of-peace said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

    @Trickrtreat01 Don't quote a game dev.

    You are going to lose players no matter what you do. If you offer up safe zones or PVE only servers or let people opt out of PVP then your core group of players will leave. So stick to your guns, literally and figuratively and let them know that this is how the game was meant to played. It's not a PVE only game. PVE players are exaggerating their losses to get their way. I encourage you to reiterate there will never be PVE servers. It would go a long way in settling this and stop some of the arguing. Your reluctance to alienate PVE players is alienating the people who wanted PVP and PVE.

    You're going to lose potential growth of the game's population by having PvP.

    If I were just learning Sea of Thieves; I'd totally be overwhelmed with the gorgeous scenery and fantastic lighting effects; let alone the intermediate knowledge of the boat/weapons/supplies and all of your tools.
    It would be exciting for me to complete my first voyage, even if all I found were a castaways chest.
    What's not exciting or thrilling is being chased halfway across the map because more experienced (bored) players are seeking to steal my hard work.
    That type of action would turn off the average player from continuing to play.
    Yes. It is easy to tell them. "Well just take it as a lesson. Try better next time."
    But that doesn't seem to be valid when the game is rated 12+

    Even if you claim there are those who exaggerate their losses. The fact that losing your loot to some try-hard pirates is still a common complaint.
    I mean voyage loot.
    Not the Skull fort events.
    Just general hostility from every other crew. And no consequences.
    I am aware Rare wanted crews to work together and choose which pirate they will be.
    But a large player base chose to be hostile. Giving everyone that lesson. Take no prisoners

    Yep...

    The thing to keep in mind is that there's nothing inherently wrong with PvP, it's the players and their attitudes/behaviors that made and continue to make it a problem.

    There's plenty more to being a pirate and living in a pirate world beyond just repeatedly murdering and stealing from fellow pirates, but until Rare adds more piratey things to do in the game then PvP is the main venue to live out that fantasy. But people still act like jerks even in a pirate game, and so this game heavily risks devolving into "just another PvP game" or "just another game dominated/ruined by PvP".

    PvP is in sore need of some structure or we need to be able to better gauge the rate at which we run into other players. A big issue is that as you level up reputations, the encounter rate increases because people are being sent off further away from where they start. I'm not even sure how spawning and such is determined, but if there are 6 ships per session (one per outpost) then you're at least going to run into one other ship within the biome you've started in. Yet while traveling even to just my very first island of a session's voyage I can run into multiple ships in the area.

    It's irritating because PvP feels mostly pointless and it ultimately wastes time for a chance at rewards you would get anyway if you could just fully focus on PvE. Doesn't matter if folks subjectively find the PvE boring, as that is a subjective opinion and by no means the majority opinion either.

    But this is what happens when you throw open PvP without consequence into a game. Doesn't matter what Rare's intentions were, because human nature always chooses chaos in the absence of order and that is expedited to extremes in video games and is further worsened by online games where players get to be anonymous and compete with one another.

    Unfortunately there's really not much that can be done unless Rare wants to annoy the PvP community that has firmly rooted itself in this game. They basically have to add more convincing PvE threats and incentives, and IMO that needs to mean more threats at sea + rewards/goals to chase after that aren't just cosmetic in nature. We also need social structures that allow some actual organization and order between multiple crews. It's either go through all these lengths and hoops to ensure that PvP doesn't have to be touched, or else Rare needs to start putting some real consequences/deterrents on PvP if not a way to opt out of it entirely.

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    3

    Let me address some of the comments here.

    C: You just need to get better\learn how to play the game
    A: No I don't. I paid 60+ EUR not for a spot in a course that will allow me git gud. I paid it for a fun, colorful game about pirates and treasures. No need to convert myt leisure activity into a self-improvement venture. I want to have some fun for my money - that's all. And even if we talk about competitiveness - see next comment.

    C: You have to adapt and get better. Find teammates, find this crew of dreams, build it.
    A: Me and my buddy are veteran gamers. We played Quake 1 and 2 on the competitive level if it says something to the younger audience. We (as many like us and better than us here) love competitive hardcore games. But you have to realize that a crew of 2 good player will always be crushed by a team of 3 good players (in a long run, as poker players say). We play on PC so we are naturally dominate Xbox players (I pity them and I pity myself when I play on my Xbox one). But taking Skeleton Forts is almost impossible, because no matter how good two of you are - 4 good players will always dominate you. Just basic math.
    And maybe we could convince two more buddies to spend 60+ EUR of their own to come along, or maybe we could find some random dudes out of the hundreds who don't have mic, PC or desire to communicate. Or time! There is NO POINT AT ALL to play this game for less than an hour. As for me - I have an hour in the evening max for my gaming. Maybe 2-3 in a row during the weekend. But it's hard. So no - finding a crew of 4 of same level is not an option for many of us. And without it 4 will always be more that 2. And thus 2 can't get into the biggest fun of this game as of now - Forts. And if I can't do what I please in the game just because I don't have enough buddies - isn't it kind of discrimination?
    There are no PvP systems in place, there are no incentives for players to join fractions, there are no game mechanisms for that. It's FFA basically. We can't even communicate properly with the majority of the players due to keyboard\mic issues on Xbox etc.
    I can tolerate that and wait for improvements. I love the potential of the game. But I can't tolerate those who just throw "git gud" at you and defend bad systems. If you are that "gud" I challenge you and to face me and my pal while you and you alone are playing on a sloop on an Xbox. Good luck "gitting gud" against us.

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    0

    How about more shipwrecks and not just ones with seagulls circling above. If this is an exploration game than make it so we can EXPLORE. Going to x marks the spot for everything is annoying and does not feel like you are “exploring”

    Also rework the loot system maybe not give more rep but more lower class loot so there is more of it. Tired of finding 1-2 pieces of loot for 20 minutes of work.....

  •
    Marauder
    Insider
    1

    I'll repeat what I've said earlier, if there's any chance a Dev might notice.

    I think there's a common mistake of seeing SoT as having two elements: PVE and PVP. That feels to me like a false dichotomy.

    It's clear that SoT was never designed to be about 'quests', but rather to be about the 'experiences' between unique player interactions.

    However, it's clear that the quests are fundamental to making sure those experiences remain unique. All of the adventures we've had isn't because we simply met other players on a ship - it's because the mission mechanics changed how we engaged. Either stealing their booty, hiding while we look for boot, trying to protect booty, stealing their ship while they look for booty, and so on.

    In that sense, if Rare really wants to strengthen these fundamental experiences, then it needs to not only provide more content, but offer the means to keep experiences fresh and dynamic - so that we don't keep repeating the same experience, with different faces and different booty.

    As ideas go, I've thought of a few things to add varients:

    1. Escort quests ... perhaps a ship or a person. Escort an NPC (a kidnapped mayor, for example) or an NPC ship to a safe location. The escorted ship or person can be taken back to their original captors by an intervening player ship. Ship Y escorts, whilst an additional Ship X can intervene, and profit in return.

    2. Capture or defend islands. That dynamic would be even more interesting if pirates could join affiliated factions - giving other ships the option to team up against their adversaries for a joint profit (perhaps identifiable by a single faction flag ... forcing players to get close enough to know who their enemies and friends are before engaging).

    3. Press ganging. This idea is slightly mad ... But what about the option to give another player crew the chance to join your fleet ... in return, both crews share a small pot of the others booty. That can only happen if two ships get close enough ... meaning' that incoming galleon might be here to recruit you and your sloop, or they might be here to b******u out of the water. Do you fire, or do you risk the chance?

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    2

    @guybrushcrpwood Sure, it is about the experience, and many people are saying the experience is garbage right now. There are two reasons the experience is garbage:

    1. The lack of anything to do in the game. No, this is not hyperbole. There is 3 variations of one fetch quest to do, and there is a complete lack of real progression (leveling up means nothing, Pirate Legend means nothing). Once people, especially the hardcore PvPers who play 10+ hours of this game a day inevitably get bored of this, it leads to the second reason why the experience for many is garbage.
    2. The shoot anything on sight, kill on sight, and sink on sight mentality. The hardcore PvPers think this is a hardcore PvP game, even though there is a complete lack of stat tracking, and again, complete lack of progression. The fact they think this is a hardcore PvP game coupled with the fact they're bored of the PvE aspect of the game means the experience is terrible for new players or those who only have a few hours a week to unwind and play the game.

    Like I said in a previous post, the only way to make the experience not suck is a complete overhaul of the game. I know the vision for the game was that every player interaction would be unique and you wouldn't know who is a friend and who is foe, the fact is the game hasn't panned out that way. I have yet to interact with someone that hasn't shot me. Heck, the very first time I started up the game I spawned in a tavern and someone immediately shot me. You can't control people's behaviors, therefore some actual ruled need to be imposed in the game.

  •
    Marauder
    Insider
    1

    @greaseman85 That just emphasises what I'm getting at ... It needs to be more dynamic.

    The game doesn't require a complete overhaul ... The core mechanics - a ship, a crew, environmental forces, islands, exploration, treasure ... they're all good, and they all interact well together.

    There just needs to be more scope and scale. The only reason players almost always shoot on sight is because there's no incentive not do so.

    We shouldn't think of incentive as the same as disincentive - i.e. penalties for death. Except psychological studies often show that people taken actions for positive reasons moreso than negative ones - if you want people not to shoot on sight, give them really good incentives to cooperate with other ships. In other words, reward friendliness.

    That's sort of why I mentioned a press ganging or defend / capture feature, to provide both ships a positive reason to get close and interact. Perhaps a trade function? Or some other compelling reason not to let loose the dogs of war.

    There will always be people who shoot on sight. Always. But trying to increase friendliness between ships won't happen by punishing those who do. It'll happen by rewarding them.

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