[Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4
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@guy4231 "There is no official definition of griefing as it is a term that was used to describe players that would abuse game mechanics to intentionally annoy or obstruct others from gameplay."
Because it's an urban word, so urban dictionaries are actually ACCURATE!
That being said, a quick google search reveals the definition rather fast, the first one to pop up is the wikipedia description which says: "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, occasionally using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
And has nothing to do with obstructing people from gameplay.
You are spreading misinformation, kindly stop... You don't know what you are talking about.
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I am onboard with the suggestion of spawning players that are notorious for just taking down other ships and players to a server with like people. However I’d like to see an option for servers dedicated to solo play where you can just go grind. You can keep your normal PvP servers and y’all can harass each other as much as you’d like, but what’s so wrong about wanting to play the game by myself occasionally? Why should you be forced to be in a map with other players that have no sense of decency and want to intentionally ruin somebody’s experience?
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vote to kick open to abuse so there needs to be lots of restrictions for its use. This really needs thought if it is to be implemented.
Skull fort brigging
The other day I ended up on a galleon on my own as others left. Three people joined, clearly all friends with each other and silent so probably in party chat.We did several missions and then completed a skull fort. Right before opening the door I was brigged
I was told via msg to leave so a friend could join.There seems to be lots of skull fort jumping going on so I wonder how often this happens.
Having private crews should mostly stop this issue though still easily abused. Imagine the above scenario but they were in a private crew and they opened up a slot for a random 4th. I would be open to the risk of being kicked as soon as that 4th friend appeared, not ideal after hours of work and nothing I could do.
If there were to be an unrestricted vote to kick option, private crews would still have issues and open matchmaking probably wouldn't be a viable option anymore. -
@macready4pain Evidently Rare could care less, nothing wrong with private servers, loosing a lot of people that would buy and play there game. Extra content will not bring me back.
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The eye of reach reload.
I feel like the eye of reach reload takes the longest. That’s not really a big problem. The problem is the animation. So you put the bullet down the barrel then c**k back the hammer. Everything is fine except for the gun must complete leave the screen and pop back to the default position to count as a reload.
There has been to many times I change to my sword thinking I completed the reload.Just changing the animation to where the gun does come off the screen then up. Make it flow to the default position.
Still loving the game and can’t wait for this months update!
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@sweltering-nick said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
Because it's an urban word, so urban dictionaries are actually ACCURATE!
All that I said was there is no official definition of the word griefing. The urban dictionary is not an official dictionary. However, I do agree on that definition as well.
That being said, a quick google search reveals the definition rather fast, the first one to pop up is the wikipedia description which says: "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, occasionally using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
A google search will bring up many definitions and explanations. You just described what happens when you spawn camp people. You are re-spawned on your ship so that you can get back in the fight as quickly as possible, when a player camps the spawn, they are using an aspect of the game in an unintended way. On which the devs have already shortened that time anyway.
And has nothing to do with obstructing people from gameplay.
It has everything to do with what we are talking about. Players that do the griefing are obstructing people from game play.
You are spreading misinformation, kindly stop... You don't know what you are talking about.
This is not misinformation, I am presenting facts to support or not support the debate on hand. Which is about spawn camping and whether it is griefing or not.
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Every now and then I return to this game, only to experience the mess the current playerbase is. Had some fun with two others, then a fourth crew member spawned. Exploded our gunpowder, dropped our chests into the water. We saw it just in time. You shouldn't be allowed to pick up chests on a ship you just joined. Have a ten minute cooldown where you have to prove your value to the crew by actually playing the game and all those griefers disappear,
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As assertive as anyone tries to be with their opinions no one is typing on stone tablets here.
The basic idea of limiting behavior that is easily (yes easily) construed by most people as griefing is something Rare should in fact concern themselves with and already has and I'd guess will continue to do if they want their game to have a healthy shelf life. If a scenario puts a player in a situation with no recourse (or even basic awareness of what's happening) to save themselves or fight back or choose to retreat that's a legit design problem that deserves some thought and possibly a tweak or a correction.
Not only that but really who likes something akin to spawn camping in any game anyway? Pressing for its legitimacy is like defending the flu or something.
Rare can make changes for more than one kind of player (and/or the broadest # of players) and they should do so - to make the player base for this game as big as it deserves to be.
The attitude of "take it or move on" can apply to everyone, including people that might not like changes others might welcome.
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@sweltering-nick said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
You do realise preventing the enemy from getting the chance to fight back is a VALID STRATEGY IN REGULAR PVP, RIGHT?!
A: This in not regular PVP, this is a PVPVE. B: Out of all the PVP games I've played, I've never seen one that it is ok or encouraged to spawn camp players. Most games will take efforts to deter players from the practice. Since this is a new game, that is why the community is responding to it.
How interesting you should say that, given you've contradicted yourself...
You say I contradicted myself yet you didn't show me how I did.
Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension? ._.
No, in fact I offered another solution to the problem. Here I'll offer another.
What if your ship doesn't have any cannonballs left and are just trying to shake off someone chasing you?
You can choose to scuttle your ship, gain fresh resources, and you are away from the ship.
You're not forbidding them with spawn camping, you are PHYSICALLY challenging them, with nothing but your guns and sword... The victim actually does have a chance to fight back, but the spawn campers do have an advantage, yes...
Standing at a players spawn when they have no where else to spawn is forbidding them to fight. They have no time to do anything when they spawn and immediately get killed.
... In the very quote you posted, i said "You can't just use your own definition of spawn camping"... How could you assume i meant griefing when i specifically referred to spawn camping?!
That is my fault, I must've overlooked the argument about 1 or 2 vs 4. The original argument was if spawn camping was griefing which has many different definitions which is why I assumed, my apologies.
ANYTHING CAN CAUSE GRIEF... If you so much as drop your icecream on the ground, immediate greif flows through you, does that mean the guy who scooped your icecream INTENDED TO CAUSE GRIEF?!?!?!?! NO!!!!
This situation doesn't make sense. The guy didn't do anything to make me drop it on the ground. But if the guy scoops the ice cream, hands it over, then slaps it out of my hand, then yah, he intended to cause me grief.
Griefing is not defined by something that CAUSED grief, but the INTENTION of causing grief.
Dictionary definition of sabotage, sure... Not the definition of GRIEFING you-... You are testing my patience, mate.
Not even close... you haven't proven anything except your lack of understanding of griefing, spawn camping, AND PVP... Your emotional bias is preventing you from properly understanding them...
I only used your definition for griefing. Even the game developers have recognized that spawn camping is griefing, which is why there is a note on the ghost ship after you die. I try to keep my emotions out of message boards, but emotional bias, yes, everyone uses emotional bias when they talk about any issue. That is a part of human nature.
Honestly though, what is a player's intention when they spawn camp? They do it to annoy the other player and make them scuttle their ship, because the attacker knows they won't have to worry about them any more. Which is exploiting a mechanic in the game. -
@x1-two said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
Every now and then I return to this game, only to experience the mess the current playerbase is. Had some fun with two others, then a fourth crew member spawned. Exploded our gunpowder, dropped our chests into the water. We saw it just in time. You shouldn't be allowed to pick up chests on a ship you just joined. Have a ten minute cooldown where you have to prove your value to the crew by actually playing the game and all those griefers disappear,
Agreed.
I managed to destroy a ship I joined randomly because they had no wooden planks left and insisted on sailing across the map; skipping two outposts to go to their final Island in order to complete the voyage.Needless to say after spamming "We're low on Planks!" and "Lets head to the Outpost!" and being told No. I taught then a lesson by waiting until they were on the Island, and blew up their only gunpowder barrel on the bottom deck.
I did stay in long enough to void any cooldown
But if I had immediately joined with those intentions, I could just have easily picked up what little planks they had left- used the gunpowder barrel and left the game before they even knew what happened.
I agree with you completely. Sorry for the long response. -
@khaleesibot Would it be so much to ask that when we go through the trouble of sinking an enemy ship, that they be repopulated to a different server so we don't have to sink the same ship 57 times? We all know that when you sink a ship (especially while doing skull forts) they just keep coming back again and again and again and AGAIN until you inevitably run out of supplies and the most garbage crew imaginable is able to eventually sink you and take the rewards you worked so hard for simply because they are not removed from the server when you sink them. Sinking a ship literally buys you 5 minutes of peace if you're lucky. And that is some absolute HORSE c**p and it's completely ruining the game. Sinking a ship should actually MEAN SOMETHING, and it currently means absolutely nothing at all.
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@guy4231 said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
Honestly though, what is a player's intention when they spawn camp?
A combination of making sure you can't repair your ship while it's taking on water and buying time so my crew mates can take your supplies to stock up our ship.
If we are doing this you can completely avoid the situation by scuttling your ship, simply not respawning when the doors open on the Ferry, and worst case scenario leave the game and join a new instance.
Its fine, this is just more whining from players who have bought a game that has a heavy PvP element and are retrospectively complaining about the PvP element.
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@magnuskirkland sagte in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
Make a game, give me the ability to pvp. Cry all you want if i wanna down everyone in a server its my right.
This thread isn't about PvP, it's specificly about griefing. Yes, you can run around and attack everyone, but don't grief.
As for the OP: I think shifting crews to other servers/lobbies shouldn't be forced upon them, but could be an option to vote for in the crew menu.
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@guy4231 "A: This in not regular PVP, this is a PVPVE."
THE PVP, IN A PVPVE GAME... IS STILL JUST PVP. ._.
"B: Out of all the PVP games I've played"
Which is apparently NONE... TF2, Battlefield games, Overwatch, all Counterstrike games, Forge, Paladins, Dying Light, Blade Symphony, Bloody Good Time, Day of Defeat games, Gotham City Impostors, Half- Life Deathmatch, Loadout, COD games, Guild Wars games, World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls: Online...
In any PvP game that has ever been made, even the ones with PvE involved, not a single one of them punishes people who spawn camp, not a single one of them considers spawn camping griefing...
Do you want to know why? Because in the PvP, you are supposed to fight against ALLOWING people the chance to spawn camp, it's part of the game... If you get spawn camped, that basically means you lose, because you weren't good enough to keep people away from spawn.
Spawn camping is a classic strategy in PvP mate, whether you want to admit that or not.
"Standing at a players spawn when they have no where else to spawn is forbidding them to fight."
Nope, it's not, because the spawn camped still has a fighting chance.
"They have no time to do anything when they spawn and immediately get killed."
Instakills, are not possible anymore, thanks to the nerf to blunderbuss... again, wrong.
The visible model of your character doesn't show up until the player is able to move... Hence you have a chance to fight back."That is my fault, I must've overlooked the argument about 1 or 2 vs 4."
Bro, there's something wrong with your reading comprehension.
"The original argument was if spawn camping was griefing which has many different definitions which is why I assumed, my apologies."
Sure it was, but you need to consider the context of the argument itself... There is something wrong, with your reading comprehension, mate. ._.
"This situation doesn't make sense."
It's an analogy, again, something is wrong, with your reading comprehension. xD
"The guy didn't do anything to make me drop it on the ground."
Exactly my point! o_o
These people are not doing anything to intentionally cause you grief, but that doesn't stop you from feeling grief..."But if the guy scoops the ice cream, hands it over, then slaps it out of my hand, then yah, he intended to cause me grief."
What if he realised the icecream was poisoned? ._.
You're so short-sighted... Unless you can PROVE his intention was to cause grief, you, sir, do not have a solid case. : /
"I only used your definition for griefing."
No, you used your own personal definition of griefing, your own personal definition of spawn camping. What do you think i've been having a conniption over? Again, something is seriously wrong with your reading comprehension. ._.
"Even the game developers have recognized that spawn camping is griefing"
No, the developers have recognized that spawn camping CAN POTENTIALLY BE USED to grief people... Not that it is griefing by default. Once again, your reading comprehension fails you, mah boy.
Spawn camping is an unavoidable part of gameplay, you cannot board someone and successfully do something meaningful, without having to spawn camp... Boarding someone is part of the PvP in this game, that is just a fact.
The devs have designed this game so you could, for instance... Shoot a few holes in a ship, board the, and spawn camp the crew until the ship sinks from those holes... One of MANY ways to handle a situation... Almost NONE of them qualify as griefing.
"Honestly though, what is a player's intention when they spawn camp?"
That depends on the player, it varies.
"They do it to annoy the other player and make them scuttle their ship"
How can you prove it is to annoy the players? Why do you always default to people having the intention of griefing instead of the logical choice, to ensure victory? Don't be self-centered.
"Which is exploiting a mechanic in the game."
I think you mean abusing, and no, it's not. Seeing as boarding enemies and spawn camping them is a design choice by the developers, intended to be part of the gameplay.
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I just experienced a problem where 2 players kept killing me for no reason, their boat was moving faster than mine when it was the same boat and yes my sail was in the wind, got shot with a pistol at a crazy distance while sailing, they also swam so quick I couldn't get away, and they fired so may shots without ever getting ammo and when my ship was sinking, they stayed under water for the longest time and evey shark around them never went for them, just came for me. This is why I'm losing interest. It's a good game, just I can't do anything because of people like this. If I had to guess I'd say they were hacking or modding.
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@khaleesibot I've never been spawn killed, I've never been auto-brigged, and I've only ever lost two skulls to actual piracy by other players.
One time I was chased around the map first by a sloop, then by a galleon who had teamed up with that sloop. I had one seafarer's chest, but these guys were bent on hunting me down.
They never did. In fact I could have finished them off more than once, but figured they would have learned their lesson after hitting rocks and running aground more than once. But they still kept coming after me just for the sake of it.
I'm not sure I would call that griefing, but it did seem particularly like sadistic or bad sportsmanship. I eventually lost them in a storm, and decided to go eat anyway.
I guess what I'm saying is that I've read lots and lots of posts about people being spawn-killed, and even quite a few posts about how people should join crews "or else" (those I'm suspicious of, because to me it seems like they're trying to intimidate people into joining crews), but in the short two weeks I've been playing I've never come across any of the negative behaviors described.
Who knows? Maybe I will after this post, but so far the few "negative experiences" I've had, save for that one chase, have been within the context of the game, and to be honest were my own fault (I got killed at Golden Sands and two high ranked skulls taken after I killed four red skeletons … I actually was spawn killed on my ship after they killed me at the shop, but I respawned elsewhere and continued on with both the game and life in general).
Most of the time it's been normal gaming for me. So, I'm kind of curious where all this griefing stuff is happening.
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Apart from what has already been stated numerous times including the introduction of private parties which in the short term will help a lot with some of the issues players are experiencing, I think Rare needs to introduce more rewards, incentives, and tools that encourage players & crews to work together rather than immediately shoot on site. I also think, it'd be great if there was a mechanic that would reward more experienced players for helping players & crews who may be experiencing griefing. People have talked a lot about introducing a bounty system, but I believe the game could really benefit from introducing a similar mechanic that encourages and rewards "good deeds" and positive interactions.
I also strongly believe that you may want to revisit the death penalty that was nixed by populist knee-jerk reaction shortly after launch. I think having some sort of death penalty, if thoughtfully implemented could go a long way in deterring the sorts of needlessly aggressive (nothing to lose) attitudes that some players have.
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Ahoy mate, naming and shaming isn't something we want to see on the forums and as such is against the forum rules, if you wish to report players then raise a report via
SupportHow to report a player
There are several ways to report a player, either on Xbox Live or via the Rare Player Support team. How to Report a player to the Sea of Thieves team You can use the 'Raise a support request' at t...
If you believe a player has been toxic in the game, you can report them to Xbox Live here. You can also submit a support ticket to Rare Customer Support.
Topics and posts with this content will be locked, deleted and the users involved warned. Ignoring the warning will result in a temporary ban from the Forums and a final warning. If the action continues, a permanent ban from the Forums will be issued.
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@katttruewalker sorry [is this a bot?]
Thats ok im already uninstalled so they can have the game. Glad i didnt have to pay for it🤣 especially while all these "Fortniters" are still playing. I may come back once the new free to play game draws thier attention, but im good for now. The game itself is super fun and nothing against the devs just not gonna waste time or money when the community is toxic when i can play skyrim and games like that. -
Griefing isn't just outpost camping, killing solo sloopers over and over etc...
It is also being allowed to scuttle your ship while still alive. A couple of days ago a galleon was pestering me; however, I kept spoiling the fun by scuttling my ship as soon as the would-be pirates set foot on my boat. This probably sucked for them; they didn't get the joy of sinking my boat. I just scuttled and tried swimming away till the sharks got me. Suggestion: Make scuttling an option only aboard the ferry of the damned.
(Note: This could also help solve outpost camping issues by preventing players from "hiding" their ship by scuttling).
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@nwo-azcrack - True. I guess it's not so much a "problem" as it is overpowered in my opinion. Why anyone would want to outpost camp is beyond me (it sounds incredibly boring). Nevertheless, players hoping to trade in some loot should know whether there is a pirate presence at an outpost (other than by sailing around to spot a mermaid.)
You are right that outpost camping is not griefing; it is a tactic. In my opinion, a tad overpowered.
Can we agree spawn camping at outposts is griefing?
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@nwo-azcrack said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:
Its not. The scuttle option is there for a reason. I dont camp ouposts or spawn kill beyond what i have to. Only true griefing on this game is betraying team mates. And hacking. Everything else is 100% avoidable
I'm not even sure I agree with betraying teammates to be greifing. Isn't that really what the brig is for?
On a separate note, I can see why people think spawn killing is griefing, but in reality, it isn't. If a ship has loot on it, it can take a few minutes to unload everything. Since players respawn on their ships fairly quickly, the only option is to kill them repeatedly until they scuttle or you are finished unloading loot.
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@chitown-bear
I only consider team betrayals because they can wait till till a crucial moment before they barrel you or whatnot. I dont play with randos but i hear about this all the time. -
@nwo-azcrack I don't see that as being any different than if you agree to work with another crew and they betray you at a critical moment.
Does it suck? Sure. Is it griefing? I don't see it.
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@chitown-bear
Meh you could be right. Doesnt really matter to me anyway. Like i said i dont play with randos. I just dont agree with the million other things ppl call griefing -
@nwo-azcrack I play with Rando's more than I would care too. Normally, I have a great time. Some times, people are a little too "interesting".
I think Rare has done a great job providing us tools to avoid/prevent griefing. While I do worry about many things in the game, griefing isn't one of them.
