@greaseman85 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

Most of these people arguing against different game modes to cater to most people seem like little kids. They don't know anything about business, specifically how the game industry works (it is all about the bottom line, if consumer demands a change, it will happen), and they also don't seem to know much about history, again probably because they're little kids. Rare will have to eventually listen (even if Microsoft has to force them to listen), one of the most requested features is something along the lines of PvE servers, private servers, or safe zones. It will happen no matter how hard these kids cry that they don't like it, even though it doesn't affect them.

Calling people children does not debunk their arguments... It's a vain attempt at dismissing the argument by pathetically attempting to seem "superior" to the person who made the argument you are against.

An extremely primitive and underdeveloped way of thinking, fyi... In your attempt to appear superior, you've only made yourself look worse. : /

You lack of understanding of business is also rather amusing, it's not all about consumer demands, yes that is a majority, but you see, there are laws these companies must follow, because laws exist... For instance, it is illegal to falsely advertise your product, that's just one of many laws they have to follow... If they break this law, they wont be earning money, as authorities will make sure they will lose money.

There are so many variables to consider, so not, it's not all about consumer demands... It's about so much more than that. xD

As for your argument of history... SoT is not a historically accurate game, it's about fantasy cartoon pirates, not real pirates, rare have made a few posts about this on this very forum... So any argument made about history, is irrelevant, as this game focuses on the fantasy of pirates, not the history.

Of course, the definition of words is still relevant, otherwise we'd have to re-learn an entire language just to understand a game... Pirates by definition must attack and rob ships in order to be considered pirates. That means PvP is a must for this game.

Rare doesn't have to listen to a request that would make them earn less money in the long run, you and your PvE carebears are the minority, just fyi... they don't have to listen to you, as they need to listen to the majority to earn the most money. :)

@greaseman85 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

Most of these people arguing against different game modes to cater to most people seem like little kids. They don't know anything about business, specifically how the game industry works (it is all about the bottom line, if consumer demands a change, it will happen), and they also don't seem to know much about history, again probably because they're little kids. Rare will have to eventually listen (even if Microsoft has to force them to listen), one of the most requested features is something along the lines of PvE servers, private servers, or safe zones. It will happen no matter how hard these kids cry that they don't like it, even though it doesn't affect them.

Calling people names, while crying until you get your way? Yeah, you're super mature.

@sudsybullet3d said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@wodyo said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

It is an MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online), not a single player game. This game was never intended to be played alone. Those are 2 significant points that most of the author's of these posts fail to realize.

The future of this game has a lot of hope. There's so much potential growth for this game, that it really kick-starts the imagination. But imagining that you'll be granted a single-player option to earn the same rewards that multiplayer gamers had to earn, well that's wishful thinking.

"...we never want to do anything to separate players, and give some people content that they can play with only them and not another. That's never been our intent." Joe Neate, Executive Producer.

Sea of Thieves: Content Plans

The context of that quote was about paid dlc. You would happen to be a political journalist would you?

Yes, I understand the context was towards the coming content (I'm fairly certain it was Not about "paid dlc," which has been placed on the back burner). However, the principle of what he said applies to the game universally.

@greaseman85 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@sudsybullet3d He doesn't know much about game development to begin with.

I can tell by reading the suggestions and comments on this forum that hardly anyone here does, otherwise half these suggestions wouldn't be here to begin with. If people did have experience with these things, their suggestions (like this one) would be carefully in line with the obvious and intended design of the game.

@sudsybullet3d "As someone who works in marketing for a DMC, I can't agree with you less about "obliterating" the games selling points."

If you give the players a superior option of getting to endgame faster, players will choose that...

Even if PvP servers could have PvPvE, that is not going to happen... Because the PvE servers are the superior and most efficient choice for getting to pirate legend.

So yes, you would be obliterating one of the games main selling points, if you ecnourage people to skip the PvPvE, that PvPvE will actually cease to exist.

A PvE server is not just "yet another gameplay choice", it's literally the SUPERIOR choice to get to endgame... So everybody would play that until pirate legend, and since they now have pirate legend, stop playing the game.

It means that effectively, this game will stop having PvPvE altogether... And fyi, the majority of players on this game, bought it for the PvPvE, Pirate, FPS, Shared-Open-World tags.

Actually since you are separating the pvp and pve, that means the pirate tag ceases to exist too... So that's two main selling points destroyed in one ignorant move.

This stuff doesn't create marketability, it destroys it... More options isn't always better, you should've learned this in school wherever you got your education in marketing.

Fortnite is not a good example, because that game was originally intended to be designed the way it is currently designed... Proof? They released those options while the game was still in beta... That's usually a clue that the game was originally designed for it... Not to mention Fortnite is not a PvPvE game, it's a PvP/PvE game, it separated those two gameplay styles from the very beginning, they were never merged, ever.

"They wouldn't change it from a PvPvE game into a PvP/PvE game, it would be PvPvE/PvE."

Except why would anyone bother playing the PvPvE mode when there is a clearly superior farming option of a pure PvE mode? This is one of those things you THINK you want, but when you add it to the game, you realize "Oh, this was a horrible idea...". :P

"They dont have to change the base game to add a game mode"

By adding a new gamemode, they are changing the base game. PvE mode is a freaking game-changer. :P

"so it would still represent the original."

It would not.

"Also, once you agree to the game TOS, you wave the right to refund."

If the game changes it's genre and theme after that though, you regain your right to refund... You agreed to the TOS of a specific product, but if that product suddenly changes on a core level, it is not longer the same product you originally agreed to the TOS to.

Because it's essentially a different product entirely...

"The bankruptcy coment is just nonsense."

There's a reason why games don't change genre after the game has been released...

"Tells us that you dont know much about Rare as a company."

No game company has ever done that as far as my knowledge is concerned, and i'm not gullible enough to think there's no reason for that. :P

@greaseman85 Right, and you dont need to be loosing money to find ways to increase earnings. Doing so would be a p**s poor strategy.

@sudsybullet3d He doesn't know much about game development to begin with.

Most of these people arguing against different game modes to cater to most people seem like little kids. They don't know anything about business, specifically how the game industry works (it is all about the bottom line, if consumer demands a change, it will happen), and they also don't seem to know much about history, again probably because they're little kids. Rare will have to eventually listen (even if Microsoft has to force them to listen), one of the most requested features is something along the lines of PvE servers, private servers, or safe zones. It will happen no matter how hard these kids cry that they don't like it, even though it doesn't affect them.

games can be more than one thing...

Imagine us all getting mad because Goldeneye is based on a Movie and they added "silly" multiplayer onto it... that's right, the very same multiplayer that went on to revolutionize console FPS games and paved the way for the likes of Halo and CoD to iterate.

It can have both a mode for gamers that just want to dig treasure as much as it can have a mode for gamers who want to murder. It is silly to think that things can't change. And Rare 100% knows that. They have been in the industry long enough ;). Remember that time Conkers bad fur day was a cutesy platformer in the same vein as Mario and Banjo?

@sweltering-nick said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@sudsybullet3d said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@gloog said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@sudsybullet3d said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@grandmythic7 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

Risk is part of the pirate's life. I would not like to see this implemented into the game as it would further divide the player base.

What divides the player base is when players tell others how they're supposed to enjoy the game.

Making one sandbox into two sandboxes is indeed dividing the game. He made no mention of how players are to enjoy the Sea of Thieves sandbox.

If thats the way you look at it, yeah. But looking at it that way is stupid. Each server is its own sandbox, and you will always have enough people to fill a pvp server, myself included.

The whole argument revolves around the way people enjoy the game.

The people against the idea are only afraid of losing the weak, the unaware, or the children who are easy to prey upon.

This has literally nothing to do with server population, you are completely missing the point. xD

The whole argument revolves around what is good for the game as a whole, in the long run, and what Rare wants for the game. Separating the PvPvE playerbase, OBLITERATES at least 2 of the games main selling points... This is bad for the game, and bad for rare... Rare's main objective is to make money selling a specific product, if their product keeps changing, selling it will become increasingly harder.

If they change this PvPvE game into a PvP/PvE game, mean means the majority of their buyers now suddenly have a right to ask for refunds, as the product no longer represents what they originally bought...

Rare... will go bankrupt if they do that... And that's just one of at least 4 reasons why separating the playerbase like that is a bad idea. xD

Well, the server population is just one of many talking point when discussing this idea. My original comment, if you bothered to read it, is a personal point.

As someone who works in marketing for a DMC, I can't agree with you less about "obliterating" the games selling points. I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion when creating variety literally creates marketability. Fortnite is a good example, but maybe the layman doesn't notice a marketing strat when they see it.

They wouldn't change it from a PvPvE game into a PvP/PvE game, it would be PvPvE/PvE. They dont have to change the base game to add a game mode, so it would still represent the original. Also, once you agree to the game TOS, you wave the right to refund.

The bankruptcy coment is just nonsense. Tells us that you dont know much about Rare as a company.

@greaseman85 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@barnabas-seadog Yeah, they'd rather let the game die than change it to appeal to most people! What a moronic argument. Some of you clearly don't understand business. Let me just point you back to Microsoft and the bungled Xbox One launch, or let me point you to EA and Star Wars Battlefront 2.

I've seen enough online games die. Motor City Online, War of the Roses, Firefall, First Assault: Ghost in the Shell.
Those games dropped to about five hundred to two thousand players worldwide, at most. It's called sunsetting nowadays.

The fallacy in your argument is that SoT is losing revenue, lots of it. You don't think that Rare has already made millions since launch?

Yeah, I seen how online games have died. If your thinking SoT is in a death spiral and is certainly primed for failure, you may be waiting for years.
Or perhaps your just not on board with the direction Rare is taking it's dream game.

Cry moar.

Anyone who thinks Rare (or any company) won't change something that they previously said to increase their player base and increase their income is naive at best and a fool at worst...

Flashbacks to Blizzard telling its community "we will never support vanilla WoW, the game has evolved over time etc etc..." What's that?!? Vanilla WoW is coming back? No ways... but they said that thing before?

@barnabas-seadog Yeah, they'd rather let the game die than change it to appeal to most people! What a moronic argument. Some of you clearly don't understand business. Let me just point you back to Microsoft and the bungled Xbox One launch, or let me point you to EA and Star Wars Battlefront 2.

@sweltering-nick They were talking about DLC, and why there won't be paid DLC to not divide the player base. Private servers would not divide the player base the way you're thinking, so it tells me you don't know what you're talking about and don't understand what dividing the player base means in this context.

As for your asinine argument that Rare's word is some sort of absolute law, well, I have a bridge to sell you.....

@grandmythic7
I’d gladly crew up as part of an 6 man crew aboard a Royal Navy 3rd rate ship of the line.

Place me firmly in the PVPVE category. I like the way the seas are set up now. Ive plundered ships for 20 chests, iv'e lost a few hours of valuables to other pirates. It's fun and exciting. I'm not looking to zoom to Legendary Pirate. 3 weeks in and I am just now hitting 25 on each faction and I play 1-5 hours every night. Some nights we end up with no progress, some nights we net 30k. The nights where there is no progress can be frustrating if it's because we lost it to another crew, but I enjoy the chase and the fight just as much as I enjoy the win and the plunder.

So no, please don't make some carebear mode where there's no risk. Those players will play for a week and get bored because they got to 50 without having to barely try, and leave causing the player base to shrink.

This is a dream game for Rare, not for the OP.
They are not going to flush their vision for the game no matter what we say on these forum boards.
Time and time again they re-iterate: no boundaries between players, ever.
Core game design. SWAG
I don't think they're even concerned about other games.

For those posting for safe zones, private servers, stat/vertical progression, keep crying.
Your tears fuel those who would prey upon you.

@sudsybullet3d said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@gloog said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@sudsybullet3d said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@grandmythic7 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

Risk is part of the pirate's life. I would not like to see this implemented into the game as it would further divide the player base.

What divides the player base is when players tell others how they're supposed to enjoy the game.

Making one sandbox into two sandboxes is indeed dividing the game. He made no mention of how players are to enjoy the Sea of Thieves sandbox.

If thats the way you look at it, yeah. But looking at it that way is stupid. Each server is its own sandbox, and you will always have enough people to fill a pvp server, myself included.

The whole argument revolves around the way people enjoy the game.

The people against the idea are only afraid of losing the weak, the unaware, or the children who are easy to prey upon.

This has literally nothing to do with server population, you are completely missing the point. xD

The whole argument revolves around what is good for the game as a whole, in the long run, and what Rare wants for the game. Separating the PvPvE playerbase, OBLITERATES at least 2 of the games main selling points... This is bad for the game, and bad for rare... Rare's main objective is to make money selling a specific product, if their product keeps changing, selling it will become increasingly harder.

If they change this PvPvE game into a PvP/PvE game, mean means the majority of their buyers now suddenly have a right to ask for refunds, as the product no longer represents what they originally bought...

Rare... will go bankrupt if they do that... And that's just one of at least 4 reasons why separating the playerbase like that is a bad idea. xD

@greaseman85 said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@grandmythic7 This is a pirate game in name only, nothing about it is accurate to make it "the pirate life". The risk to pirates wasn't other pirates, but the navy. People need to stop with the ridiculous "it divides the player base!!!" argument. Every other game does it, none is harmed for it.

This isn't a pirate game about historical pirates, it's a pirate game about romanticized pirates, in other words, FANTASY PIRATES...

So please stop trying to whip up history lessons, they're not relevant... However the definition of the word "pirate" means a person that attacks and robs ships... Meaning you can't be a pirate in SoT without other players, so...

That settles that.

"People need to stop with the ridiculous "it divides the player base!!!" argument. Every other game does it, none is harmed for it."

Irrelevant, the reason why people use that argument is because rare have stated thet they are adamant about not separating the playerbase, hence why future content updates and expansion packs are given to everyone owning the game for free.

Rare gave value to that argument, so keep that in mind when you make suggestions to this game. Rares word, is law, regarding Rare's products and their forums.

@i-love-furry said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@wodyo I stand corrected. Although I swear at one point there was mention of it in the alphas and/or beta. I cannot remember where.

I've seen some cool suggestions for flags as a means to communicate, but with the new Hungering Deep there is talk of a loudspeaker/megaphone item, which could make it easier to communicate with other crews directly. At least, that way, you can have some idea of what the other crews' intentions are before wandering into gun-range.

@sweltering-nick said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@i-love-furry said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

These are two loading suggestions to change/rebalance gameplay.

Merchant Mode: let's you load with a crew or joined members to a solo lobby, where only that ship is on the waves to complete their missions/quests at the caveat that Skull Forts are disabled. More like a private lobby.

Pirate Mode - load in like normal to a more crowded servers where Skull Forts are more common and active, making this a more pirate based server to battle ships for kills and the chance at the forts. Public lobby that is geared more towards pvp and ship battles.

This is just a base idea, but these options would alleviate players from being attacked while working on an island or trying to sell. Suggestions? Improvements?

No... Rare have said they won't separate the playerbases, this isn't gonna happen to begin with so you might as well stop asking for it, and this is literally asking for PvE and PvP servers... Just Stahp.

You bought a pirate game, there's gonna be pirates... End of story, if you don't like it, there are other games that suit your preferences much better than SoT.

And here comes someone else with that same asinine "argument" that has been made by literally everyone that is against changes in this game.

Here's a little thing, the list of developers who ended up making major changes to their games is far bigger than the hardheaded ones who refused to make changes. I bet Rare will be in the former category, Microsoft will make sure of that ;)

@i-love-furry said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

These are two loading suggestions to change/rebalance gameplay.

Merchant Mode: let's you load with a crew or joined members to a solo lobby, where only that ship is on the waves to complete their missions/quests at the caveat that Skull Forts are disabled. More like a private lobby.

Pirate Mode - load in like normal to a more crowded servers where Skull Forts are more common and active, making this a more pirate based server to battle ships for kills and the chance at the forts. Public lobby that is geared more towards pvp and ship battles.

This is just a base idea, but these options would alleviate players from being attacked while working on an island or trying to sell. Suggestions? Improvements?

No... Rare have said they won't separate the playerbases, this isn't gonna happen to begin with so you might as well stop asking for it, and this is literally asking for PvE and PvP servers... Just Stahp.

You bought a pirate game, there's gonna be pirates... End of story, if you don't like it, there are other games that suit your preferences much better than SoT.

@wodyo I stand corrected. Although I swear at one point there was mention of it in the alphas and/or beta. I cannot remember where.

@i-love-furry said in Merchant/Pirate modes:

@wodyo Oh please. You're digging your hole deeper. It is a suggestion in the suggestion thread. It is up to the community to put their voice, not one person. This was my idea to help the issue they are having with grievers and the lack of a parlay. Part of the code is to respect parlay, which isn't even implemented in the game. Since it is up to players to interpret the parlay, most ignore and take everything. I'm guessing you're the latter.

Excuse me? Where in the Pirate Code is "Parlay" even mentioned, again?

https://www.seaofthieves.com/pirate-code

"From the very beginning, we've been determined to make Sea of Thieves a truly welcoming world in which players of any creed, culture, age, skill level and circumstance can voyage without fear of friction or frustration. With that in mind, we've laid out a set of guidelines that we hope will help to keep the seas free of strife and grievance (beyond that stirred up in the course of a pirate's everyday activities).

The sacred bond between crewmates should never be broken, but even when waging war across the decks of rival raiders, all crews should ultimately hold one another in respect. So here for you to read, reflect upon and remember is the Sea of Thieves Pirate Code!

• Article 1 The Sea Calls To Us All

Everyone is welcome on the Sea of Thieves regardless of age, gender, race, sexuality, nationality or creed.

• Article 2 The Sea Unites Us as One Community

Outside the heat of battle or piracy on the high seas, all crews shall bond together as a community of like-minded souls.

• Article 3 Disputes Are Settled upon the Waves

None shall quarrel or overly dissent against another crew, but let every engagement be settled by sword, pistol and good seamanship.

• Article 4 All Crewmates Are Equal

Let each crewmate be respected as equal and free to follow their own bearing, speak openly and vote in affairs of the voyage.

• Article 5 The Crew Bond Is Sacred

Those who betray their crew and ship through griefing or trolling shall be sent to the brig.

• Article 6 Respect New Pirates and Their Voyage Ahead

May the old legends help to forge new ones: treat new pirates with respect and share your knowledge.

• Article 7 Those Who Cheat Shall Be Punished

Pirates who show bad form and cheat their crew or others shall surely face bitter hardships and punishments.

Origins of the Pirate Code

Having involved Sea of Thieves' community so closely in the game's development, we wanted to ensure they had just as much say in the Pirate Code. So while we had some definite hopes of our own for how players would treat one another, we took these to the official Forums and invited all Insiders to contribute. You can see the discussion thread here, and hear Executive Producer Joe Neate introduce our Pirate Code at the New York Comic Con 2017 panel."