Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

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    @graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @I-Am-Lost-77 @entspeak @AngryCoconut16 @lotrmith
    Let me lay out what I feel like was the best idea we've had so far, I feel like we're getting out into the weeds with some wild stuff. It should be easy to implement this, and should preserve the balance of pvpve. Nothing about islands visited or chests found or whatever. You just get a flat percent of your level when the voyage complete fanfare pops as long as the voyage is appropriate level. If you are lower, you get the same flat percent (which is less since lower levels are less total rep obviously) . If you are higher level you get the same as if you were the same level (ie if 10 percent happens to be 1000 rep at level 25, but at 45 10 percent is 20000, you get 1000) I feel like that's all it would really take. Rare can put in the reward at any value, start low, and tweak it if people are doing too much of one thing. The whole point is to encourage voyage completion and even out the reward between many item and few item quests. It has the side effect of helping a bit for people upset about losing everything but doesn't remove or alter the value of world items. It gets people out finishing long voyages, thus boosting PvP experience. I think there's not much either side can complain about with this change

    Problem there is that you further incentivize PvE by adding rewards without an equivalent incentive/reward for PvP.

    Two issues seem to be conflated here. The first is the ides that you could be sunk before turning in any of your loot, the solution to which, in the dev's own words, lies in understanding that the loot and all it stands for (rep/gold/timeinvested) is not yours until you turn it in. You have the option to fight back, run, or visit outposts more frequently.

    The other issue is that players have no incentive to finish the whole voyage, which doesn't seem to fit into the theme of this thread but to which I propose the following: Have a bonus upon complete voyage but only when handing back in the voyage page to the faction representative at an outpost. Your voyage progress is tracked on the page, and if you get 100% complete and turn it in, you get a nice bonus. However, if (and only if) your ship sinks, your quest page becomes a floating message in a bottle just like any treasure you had on board. You must recover it to continue or risk losing it, and thus your progress, to a thief. If a thief sinks you and steals a 100% complete voyage page, all he has to do it turn it in and he gets the bonus. If it is partially complete he has the option to finish it out and gain the bonus. Thus PvE and PvP only get a bonus upon turning in, and nobody is given an opportunity for a bonus thag the other cannot steal.

    That is actually really interesting! The only annoying thing is that you'd have to go back for every voyage, which already makes merchants alliance annoying.

    After thinking about it more it would be easier to implement pretty much the exact way Legendary Voyages work. After completing all pieces of your voyage, you get a final chapter that sends you to dig up a special piece of loot that is a physical representation of your bonus. This special piece of loot is specific to the rep for whom the voyage was given (ie: a chest for GH, a skull for OoS, some special trade good for Merchant) and acts like any other piece of loot... an Athena Chest, a Stronghold Skull, whatever. You get the rep/gold for turning it in. Other players can intercept you before you turn in, and they can claim your reward (just like could potentially be done with Athena Chests now).

    This solves the issue of losing your quest if you sink with my previous idea.

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    @entspeak said Like... for instance, if I have a couple of Captain's chests, I'm heading for an outpost, so I can get that couple grand and make sure I don't lose the reputation for them should I end up in a fight later. Problem solved.
    Not so easy when you have chickens and pigs for the outpost being blockaded with a galleon on one side and a sloop on the other waiting and attacking anyone going to turn in their stuff for hours. How do I know this? because I parked on the back side of an island and went to the top of the hill and watched it happen, yes for two hours I fought skellies which spawn near me and took some great screen shots and made some videos of the sunset ect.

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    @angrycoconut16

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/50676/give-us-our-xp-for-finishing-a-voyage-not-turning-in-the-chest-soul-animal/1202

    I apologize if you felt that 9 sentence post was too much for you. But, the question remains.

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    @pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky It is so cute how you broke my post into little bits to try and argue my point of view being wrong. It's my point of view and I have never once said yours is wrong as it's yours.

    You don't like how I play the game or how I value my time? Ok.

    *Side note: I've never been angry while playing.

    Ok I guess you don't know how discussions work...

    This has nothing to do with PvPers vs PvErs. It's just how one measures whether or not their time was well spent. I measure it by whether or not I enjoyed the time... since it's a video game and primarily entertainment. You are measuring your time on productivity, as you have nothing to bring to your next game when losing a chest, it's now a waste of time.

    Here's a tip, failing is part of the fun in this game. The progression system is completely superfluous in the grand scheme of things. It literally adds nothing of value to the gameplay mechanics nor the unlocks any new story/progress areas. The loot is a McGuffin for players to fight over. You are playing a game designed around stealing value from other players if you view your effort gaining chests independent of PvP opportunities you are fundamentally wrong.

    Your entire post reeks of entitlement because you spent 15 mins getting chests in a pirate game where you're not entitled to the value until you deliver those chests to an outpost... you may not be "upset" but you show clear contempt to players playing the game the way they are allowed to, and your unwillingness to partake in the game because you don't want to lose your chests is bad sportsmanship. So scurry into the red sea and lose all your time instead of.. defending your ship or outwitting other players which are a huge component of the game.

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    @graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    People cancel riddles because you only get one chest after a period of wandering around, and you don't seem to get better chests any more than c**p chests. Why is being as efficient as possible with this system increasing risk?

    Ah, right... I originally asked that question before I fully understood your position (and it being different from the myriad other suggestions). Reading it again with what you've said now, it makes sense. You weren't talking about risk, you were talking about completing the voyage. Fair enough.

    But, I think that the solution is to have more varied types of loot and tie the value to the difficulty. And, to have more valuable loot as you level up (even if it's only an increase in gold value). This way the notion of increasing Reputation with a faction makes sense in people's minds. People should feel like their effort is being rewarded... or at least has the potential for reward. But the combination of c****y loot and losing that c****y loot when you've spent significant time and effort gathering it... this is too much. Insult to injury, as it were. Fix the first and you will have less of an issue with the second, in my opinion.

    And here's the argument that it is necessary. Lots of people are unhappy with the experience for various reasons. That's all the reason they need to change it.

    Not necessarily. The devs have to consider the type of game they are developing, whether the change alters gameplay in a way they don't want, if it's technically feasible, and, despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Bad design should be fixed, but I don't think the manner in which Reputation and Gold are rewarded is bad in and of itself... it does a very good job of setting the tone the devs want. It's the trappings around it that are the problem.

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    @kondrites Oh, I’ve been there - I’m currently at 35 in Merchants. But, that also may be why Merchant voyages are worth significantly more than the others factions and why you have days to complete them.

    But, this thread is about the other two factions.

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    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    The devs have to consider the type of game they are developing, whether the change alters gameplay in a way they don't want, if it's technically feasible, and, despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Bad design should be fixed, but I don't think the manner in which Reputation and Gold are rewarded is bad in and of itself... it does a very good job of setting the tone the devs want. It's the trappings around it that are the problem.

    Truth.

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    @angrycoconut16 To be clear, how XP is awarded, as in the form is really not what concerns me. When, is what concerns me. The timing as it stands now has one moment at which XP can be rewarded. The point at which a voyage "truly" ends, upon the redemption of items. This naturally excludes the tiny amount received from Commendations. However, a closer examination of commendations shows (that for the most part) this is an existing bonus for further handing in more items! Truthfully, it is a redundancy on the existing system.

    So, to put my thoughts in a more bare bones proposition...the rewarding of XP should be done upon the accomplishment of sub-tasks involved in a voyage. Therefore, changing the timing of the rewards and allowing a more fulfilling gaming experience, that lends itself to consistent progression toward the "finish line". In other words, if an individual is actively engaged with the game's content, they should never logout without receiving XP that progresses them toward Legend status.

    Simply put, the timing of rewards is my chief concern.

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    @lotrmith Not at all...Just looking for some info to back up your ridiculous claim that the number of PvPr's and PvEr's is balanced. I am not asking much here...If you share your information maybe all of us will have "Oh Wow" moment and we can drop the whole conversation!

    Or...You can just keep making up s**t out of thin air, and I will keep pointing out how much BS it is!

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    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 To be clear, how XP is awarded, as in the form is really not what concerns me. When, is what concerns me. The timing as it stands now has one moment at which XP can be rewarded. The point at which a voyage "truly" ends, upon the redemption of items. This naturally excludes the tiny amount received from Commendations. However, a closer examination of commendations shows (that for the most part) this is an existing bonus for further handing in more items! Truthfully, it is a redundancy on the existing system.

    So, to put my thoughts in a more bare bones proposition...the rewarding of XP should be done upon the accomplishment of sub-tasks involved in a voyage. Therefore, changing the timing of the rewards and allowing a more fulfilling gaming experience, that lends itself to consistent progression toward the "finish line". In other words, if an individual is actively engaged with the game's content, they should never logout without receiving XP that progresses them toward Legend status.

    Simply put, the timing of rewards is my chief concern.

    You can do this already by visiting outposts to turn in your loot island by island rather than waiting until your whole voyage is finished. It is your choice to increase efficiency by stocking up on loot from many or all islands in a voyage before turning in. But, you're taking an increased risk, and that is your choice. Coincidentally, how efficient does it turn out to be if you are sunk and get nothing?

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    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    People cancel riddles because you only get one chest after a period of wandering around, and you don't seem to get better chests any more than c**p chests. Why is being as efficient as possible with this system increasing risk?

    Ah, right... I originally asked that question before I fully understood your position (and it being different from the myriad other suggestions). Reading it again with what you've said now, it makes sense. You weren't talking about risk, you were talking about completing the voyage. Fair enough.

    But, I think that the solution is to have more varied types of loot and tie the value to the difficulty. And, to have more valuable loot as you level up (even if it's only an increase in gold value). This way the notion of increasing Reputation with a faction makes sense in people's minds. People should feel like their effort is being rewarded... or at least has the potential for reward. But the combination of c****y loot and losing that c****y loot when you've spent significant time and effort gathering it... this is too much. Insult to injury, as it were. Fix the first and you will have less of an issue with the second, in my opinion.

    And here's the argument that it is necessary. Lots of people are unhappy with the experience for various reasons. That's all the reason they need to change it.

    Not necessarily. The devs have to consider the type of game they are developing, whether the change alters gameplay in a way they don't want, if it's technically feasible, and, despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Bad design should be fixed, but I don't think the manner in which Reputation and Gold are rewarded is bad in and of itself... it does a very good job of setting the tone the devs want. It's the trappings around it that are the problem.

    Well the thing is they already give out way too much gold for leveling, so I don't think just more better loot is the best answer, I just saw a guy who got 50 merchant and was still around 20 in his other factions, and he had 600,000 gold in the bank, they need more rep out there. I'd rather they up the rep than make new stuff cost a million gold so that legends don't just buy everything as it comes out.

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    @angrycoconut16 "At low level GH you should find lots of castaways and seafarers, but as you level up GH you should lower your probability of finding them and increase the probability of finding better chests." This sums it up pretty much, aswel as the "voyage completion" part, doesn't have to be money or anything, perhaps some extra rep that even if you'd get sunk by other players and lose all your stuff, that you atleast have something of a 'reward'.

    Also if i can carry 30 chests of castaway or seafarers, why not captains :p

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    @savagetwinky Offence is the best defence ;)

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    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    Right. So in other words the only way players can mitigate loss is if they have ALREADY secured some loot and handed it in at an outpost. Wow. Very helpful. So if I log on have a couple of hours to kill, and I am engaged by an enemy, but haven't had a chance to hand in at an outpost, I am forced to make a decision, do I attack with cannons and risk losing everything? Or do I just run which means a better chance of me not walking away with nothing? Hmm. I wonder which option I will take....

    This example raises a lot of questions. You have a couple of hours to play. How long does the fight take? Is the end of the fight the end of your play session? Were you on your first island and it took 1 hour and 45 minutes to get whatever loot was there? That's what I genuinely don't understand... how does this particular scenario happen?

    edited to address the first statement, above: Yes... that's what the outposts are for, that's why the devs put in a lot of them and spread them fairly evenly around the map. They are save stations or checkpoints of a sort. All games with save stations and checkpoints work this way - you die, you are reset to where you were the last time you saved.

    How long the fight takes is irrelevant. I don't understand what you are not understanding? Let me simplify it for you, ignore my previous example. You have loot. It gets stolen. The loss is currently far greater than it needs to be. This loss deflates the player and discourages PvP for a huge number of people. That is the issue we are trying to solve.

    Obviously you could potentially go Island to outpost to island to outpost to island to outpost to island to outpost and I understand how the system works but forcing players to spend time always sailing back to the outpost with ONE voyage worth of loot is not healthy either. The game shouldn't make people this scared to take risks, risks should be up for a player to decide but at the moment so many people are SCARED of taking risks (for instance, engaging an enemy ship with loot on board the ship; going to more than one island for a voyage) as the loss is simply too great! This change would encourage people to take risks, which is going to encourage healthy PvP. Forcing people to run to an outpost, and then making players feel like their only real option is to flee if they see an enemy player but want to progress is harming the game.

    We all understand how the game works, and the outpost solution, but we all believe this would be a far better system/solution which could easily work alongside outposts.... We are not saying the current system isn't usable but wouldn't you rather the game entailed a more enjoyable PvP experience for everyone?

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    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Please don't twist my words. I'm the one trying to state the impact this will also have in PvP, and also trying to minimise the impact this would have on loot value. I am thinking about the impact this would have, but by all means, if I've missed anything, let me know.

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    @daveyjay1984 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 Yes. I said real life. But even without the real life analogue. Why do you think you deserve to be rewarded for not actually finishing the job that you stated you would do. As said above. You are building reputation and being rewarded for providing a service.
    Why would the gold hoarders care that you found all that gold if you don't give it to them as you were contracted to do.
    YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED YOUR CONTRACT AND AS SUCH DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PAID FOR IT.
    I hate capitalised comments but seriously....

    Dude, It's REPUTATION, not PAYMENT.

    Please learn to differentiate between those two.

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    @touchdown1504 Cool. Exactly like you said too, it would be a more fulfilling gaming experience, and it doesn't have to compromise the way the game works. Hell, if people are finding it more fulfilling it will be positive for the game (as we know from the effects it'll have on PvP and risks, and to lessen the blow of loss).. I don't understand how people can turn a blind eye to those HUGE benefits..

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    The XP system is called "Reputation" by the game developers. (!)

    Reputation is what other people think about you and your actions. It has nothing to do with payment.

    Reputation in real life is earned by your actions, not by your material gains.

    Reputation should therefore be rewarded for the action of discovering hidden treasures, destroying the undead skeletons or fulfilling a merchant contract.

    Not for mindlessly turning in items for gold!

    The fix for this game is so simple, it's mind-boggling why Rare refuses to implement it since early Beta:
    Grant (some part of) the reputation XP on Voyage Completion.

    It's ok to grant reputation on turning in random (found, stolen etc.) items in addition to gold, but the voyage contract completion is what should really advance your REPUTATION in the eyes of the factions.

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    @fatbeardedguy42 We have already addressed this. It is NOT reputation it is exp. Reputation is just a fancy name. If it was reputation you'd:

    1. Get it for killing the kraken, a huge feat!
    2. Get it for killing other pirates on the sea, especially ones who have a better reputation themselves
    3. Be able to lose it, for instance if you fail at a quest, or do something the NPCs dislike
    4. Arguably you'd have positive and negative reputation, depending on whether you were an infamous pirate, or a famous one for good reasons..
    5. why would a PIRATE get a ton of reputation for delivering pigs and animals? That's just bizarre.
    6. Heck if there is a particularly difficult storm and you sail through it, you'd get rep!

    In short it is obvious it does not function even remotely as reputation, that is simply the name it has been given. It is Xp/exp/progression and that is all.

    BUT thank you for supporting us, and I agree it's so simple and would have SUCH positive impacts! Just award a small portion of XP on voyage complete, but not too much to provide less incentive to defend the loot. And I completely agree, there has got to be reputation associated with loot. As far as I'm concerned leave loot as it is and just add something on voyage complete.

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    I'm certainly not going to read through every comment on this Thread, so my apologies if I basically say what has already been said.

    My personal opinion on this subject would be that you gain extra Rep [not Gold], if you complete a Voyage, and hand in all acquired items. This would make it more appealing for Players to finish the entire Voyage, rather than picking and choosing only the good [or close] ones.

    I personally prefer to play this Game for the Voyages and adventure, and that means actually going on a Voyage, not half doing something because it's "easier" to do.

    The bonus of this would be that your Items become more valuable, and there-for, comes with more Risk, which is what this Game needs badly. If you're said items get stolen, then there goes your bonus Rep.

    My thoughts anyway.

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    @nquarter This would make the problem worse. The items are already holding 100% of the value, that's the issue which is creating hostility and negativity, as well as making players feel they have no choice but to run even if they WANT to engage in PvP - because if it goes seriously bad they have suddenly lost all of their progress/gold for that session, in the blink of an eye. That is not fun for anyone. I think it's very feasible to keep the value of the loot (it needs to be valuable to keep that element of risk and paranoia on the seas) but also award some progression earlier in the voyage.

    At the moment we are discussing awarding progression on 'voyage complete'. The OP wants 100% but I think this is far too much, what most of us are discussing at the moment is leaving the loot rewards the same, but having some form of additional bonus rep when the 'voyage complete' sign comes up (i.e. when you have dug up your last chest or killed your last skeleton etc). The bonus needs to be big enough to have an impact, but obviously not so big that it is less of a priority for a player to defend their loot, which is core to the game.

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    It would make sense to reward after completing a voyage. And stop all the cancellations after just getting the good stuff. If there is a reward for actually completing it entirely instead of cash in the gold chicken and ditch the rest,for example.

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    I agree in its current state there is very little incentive to finish voyages. Most people over 30 in rep don’t even bother doing any islands unless they are reasonably close and have at least 3 skulls or 4 chests.

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    @angrycoconut16 I still wholeheartedly disagree with the explanation of this being XP. But that's just me.
    @FatBeardedGuy42 Why would someone get reputation for not achieving what they said they would. Getting pedantic about the specific word used in a sentence is entirely ridiculous.

    I don't think someone should receive money or rep for not completing their contract. I did however start to discuss a negotiable value which appears to be the way this discussion is travelling and while I disagree with the concept I can see the point being made by people who want their participation trophy.

    Edit I suppose I should cover the comment by @MrGrim67686
    You did not complete the job. They contracted you to collect gold and bring it to them. Of course it matters who brings them the gold. They are the one who has actually provided them with the product they desire... To the level that I have concern for their psychological well-being but that is beside the point. They don't care where gold comes from just that it comes. The person who provides said gold is the person who gains reputation for actually giving them what they want.

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    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
    How long the fight takes is irrelevant. I don't understand what you are not understanding? Let me simplify it for you, ignore my previous example. You have loot. It gets stolen. The loss is currently far greater than it needs to be. This loss deflates the player and discourages PvP for a huge number of people. That is the issue we are trying to solve.

    Obviously you could potentially go Island to outpost to island to outpost to island to outpost to island to outpost and I understand how the system works but forcing players to spend time always sailing back to the outpost with ONE voyage worth of loot is not healthy either. The game shouldn't make people this scared to take risks, risks should be up for a player to decide but at the moment so many people are SCARED of taking risks (for instance, engaging an enemy ship with loot on board the ship; going to more than one island for a voyage) as the loss is simply too great! This change would encourage people to take risks, which is going to encourage healthy PvP. Forcing people to run to an outpost, and then making players feel like their only real option is to flee if they see an enemy player but want to progress is harming the game.

    We all understand how the game works, and the outpost solution, but we all believe this would be a far better system/solution which could easily work alongside outposts.... We are not saying the current system isn't usable but wouldn't you rather the game entailed a more enjoyable PvP experience for everyone?

    It absolutely is relevant. You gave that example when talking about players logging out having gained nothing at all for their entire play session. The counter argument made was that the game already has a mechanic to address that - the devs have placed “the right number of outposts around the world so you've got the choice.” And given that “a ship isn't just going to come out of nowhere unless you've let it come out of nowhere,” how the fight began and how long it takes is relevant to your claim that in an entire session a player has lost everything to PvP loss.

    I’m not saying you have to go island to outpost, island to outpost every time. I don’t do that, so that extreme choice is unnecessary. Last night I did an entire voyage without hitting an outpost because the two outposts near me (Dagger Tooth and Galleon’s Grace) had players at or near them and it was all castaways and seafarers - six islands in that voyage. But, if I lost all that, I still would’ve had an hour left in my 2 hour play session - and, losing all of it would’ve been my fault... not a fault in the game design. The only time I go from 1 island to an outpost is if I end up with a lot of high value loot from that 1 island. If I’d had Captain’s chests, I would’ve headed south to Aspire to drop them off before hitting the last three islands in the voyage. But it’s about risk assessment, choice, and strategy. There is a solution to the problem you were talking about in giving that example.

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    This thread (or reason it even exists) is among the reasons this game is going downhill like a snowball.

    • Lack of content
    • Horrible progression grind (makes some korean grinders look casual)
    • 100% potential xp loss which leads to players being frustrated enough to quit playing
    • Absurd autoaiming skeleton pistol packs
    • Hackers

    I could add 4-5 more bullet points

    Not sure I agree is going downhil I still enjoy the game and think it will only get better!

    By the end of the year will probably look totally different. Really do agree about the skeletons though. I just run past them as whats the point in fighting unless they are stopping you digging up a chest or something. Even if they dropped some ammo or a few gold pieces would make them worth fighting slightly.

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    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 To be clear, how XP is awarded, as in the form is really not what concerns me. When, is what concerns me. The timing as it stands now has one moment at which XP can be rewarded. The point at which a voyage "truly" ends, upon the redemption of items. This naturally excludes the tiny amount received from Commendations. However, a closer examination of commendations shows (that for the most part) this is an existing bonus for further handing in more items! Truthfully, it is a redundancy on the existing system.

    So, to put my thoughts in a more bare bones proposition...the rewarding of XP should be done upon the accomplishment of sub-tasks involved in a voyage. Therefore, changing the timing of the rewards and allowing a more fulfilling gaming experience, that lends itself to consistent progression toward the "finish line". In other words, if an individual is actively engaged with the game's content, they should never logout without receiving XP that progresses them toward Legend status.

    Simply put, the timing of rewards is my chief concern.

    You can do this already by visiting outposts to turn in your loot island by island rather than waiting until your whole voyage is finished. It is your choice to increase efficiency by stocking up on loot from many or all islands in a voyage before turning in. But, you're taking an increased risk, and that is your choice. Coincidentally, how efficient does it turn out to be if you are sunk and get nothing?

    By the way...Did you happen to get those numbers yet? Hard to take someone seriously when by appearances you are willing to just make up nonsense to support your argument. That is why, i am giving the benefit of a doubt. It's all good...I'll wait.

    As for what I wrote you obviously don't understand a word I said. Let me break it down Barney style.

    Timing of Rewards (Repuatation, or Experience specifically)

    1. Kill Skeleton=Reward
    2. Defeat Kraken=Reward
    3. Solve Riddle=Reward
    4. <Insert any task worthy of "reputation" here>

    OR.....

    Award reputation (don't ask how much I don't know) on the Voyage Complete fanfare.

    Timing. I am not advocating a change in amount. I am not advocating a change in PvP or PvE. I am simply saying change the timing of when the Rep is rewarded. That takes away from nothing. The loot is still worth what it was always worth. If it is stolen, nothing different. If it isn't...nothing different. As a reminder, don't forget to post those insider information numbers on the game's statistics you claim, would be nice if you shared with all of us.

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    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Please don't twist my words. I'm the one trying to state the impact this will also have in PvP, and also trying to minimise the impact this would have on loot value. I am thinking about the impact this would have, but by all means, if I've missed anything, let me know.

    I am not twisting your words. When bringing up the effect this idea will have on PvP players, you have said that this idea is only to address PvE player issues and that PvP players can start their own thread. That’s not how this works. There is no guarantee that other thread ideas will be adopted. That being the case, how this idea impacts the rest of the game needs to be addressed. The devs are not going to just implement this idea on its own without considering how it impacts the rest of the game.

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    @angrycoconut16 I think this is where I differ in the entire discussion. I feel XP should be awarded for the tasks an individual completes. For three reasons.

    1. It is XP. "Experience Points". Players should be rewarded for engaging in the wider game. Killing skeletons, Krakens, even other crews. It would encourage wider gameplay.

    2. It fits thematically, although I don't care about that, a great number of people do. A pirate's Reputation should be based on accomplishments, not deliveries (although those can count some too).

    3. Timing, as I mentioned to one of the local trolls (see above posting) would virtually guarantee that no one ever logs out without zero XP as long as they engaged with the game in some fashion. Which snowballs into all of the other bennies we covered dozens of times.

    Anyhow, I do believe that is where I part ways with most in the discussion. I say as I did early on, it is a system that would take time to implement (guessing, because I am not a code monkey). Which is why, if you look WAY back in the thread) I said early on that as a foundation to change, and a band aid to stem the tide, Just award the reputation on "VC". But that part has been lost in discussion. Page 1, around the 7 or 8 post.

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    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    despite what @AngryCoconut16 believes, how the change impacts the rest of the game.

    Please don't twist my words. I'm the one trying to state the impact this will also have in PvP, and also trying to minimise the impact this would have on loot value. I am thinking about the impact this would have, but by all means, if I've missed anything, let me know.

    I am not twisting your words. When bringing up the effect this idea will have on PvP players, you have said that this idea is only to address PvE player issues and that PvP players can start their own thread. That’s not how this works. There is no guarantee that other thread ideas will be adopted. That being the case, how this idea impacts the rest of the game needs to be addressed. The devs are not going to just implement this idea on its own without considering how it impacts the rest of the game.

    There is no guarantee this thread will be adopted either. Or any ideas players put forth. This thread is not about PvP and PvE. But a small handful of people, like you, decided to come in here and make it about that. Which is fine (lets all go derail threads!), we all engaged in that discussion to be sure your points were addressed from another point of view. You were not happy with what was said so you keep beating a dead horse. You have a specific point you have been trying to make for literally hundreds of posts. Compared to the OP it is ancillary to the core of this discussion. So, more than one person has suggested you go make a thread about your topic. Let me sum up here for you.

    @entspeak 's point of view... A couple people agree. The majority doesn't. Opinions, that is how they work. Take your Idea, thought, topic, and start a discussion for a broader audience. Or don't...hang out here, I enjoy your company.

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    @touchdown1504 It is not derailing the topic to discuss how this idea will impact other aspects of the game... it just isn’t.

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    @entspeak I agree 100%. Which is why I was willing to engage discussion. But...when you constantly beat a dead horse and offer zero alternatives...it becomes derailing a topic. The topic is so far off the core discussion at this point, it isn't even recognizable. I don't blame you per se', I didn't have to continuously engage you in the discussion. So it is my fault too, as well as others. For my part...I am on topic, from here on out. All anyone has asked is contribute, presenting alternative ideas is a great start! Cheers!

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    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    Right. So in other words the only way players can mitigate loss is if they have ALREADY secured some loot and handed it in at an outpost. Wow. Very helpful. So if I log on have a couple of hours to kill, and I am engaged by an enemy, but haven't had a chance to hand in at an outpost, I am forced to make a decision, do I attack with cannons and risk losing everything? Or do I just run which means a better chance of me not walking away with nothing? Hmm. I wonder which option I will take....

    This example raises a lot of questions. You have a couple of hours to play. How long does the fight take? Is the end of the fight the end of your play session? Were you on your first island and it took 1 hour and 45 minutes to get whatever loot was there? That's what I genuinely don't understand... how does this particular scenario happen?

    edited to address the first statement, above: Yes... that's what the outposts are for, that's why the devs put in a lot of them and spread them fairly evenly around the map. They are save stations or checkpoints of a sort. All games with save stations and checkpoints work this way - you die, you are reset to where you were the last time you saved.

    How long the fight takes is irrelevant. I don't understand what you are not understanding? Let me simplify it for you, ignore my previous example. You have loot. It gets stolen. The loss is currently far greater than it needs to be.

    The devs disagree.

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    @daveyjay1984 That's fair enough. At the end of the day I'm all for Rare treating it more as reputation, my disagreement comes from the fact that in my eyes, it simply doesn't 'act' as reputation. Name it what you want but if it doesn't act like what it's supposed to be.. it's a bit pointless. I really like the incentive of it being reputation and I must admit, initially I treated it as reputation too, but after writing on the forums people have opened my eyes to how it really really doesn't function like reputation. I mean come on, defeating the kraken should definitely earn reputation!! But yea, if you disagree that's cool, although I would refrain from arguing that on this thread because almost everyone involved in this discussion has come to an agreement that it doesn't function as rep and so we are purely treating it as progression/exp.

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    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @nquarter This would make the problem worse. The items are already holding 100% of the value, that's the issue which is creating hostility and negativity, as well as making players feel they have no choice but to run even if they WANT to engage in PvP - because if it goes seriously bad they have suddenly lost all of their progress/gold for that session, in the blink of an eye. That is not fun for anyone. I think it's very feasible to keep the value of the loot (it needs to be valuable to keep that element of risk and paranoia on the seas) but also award some progression earlier in the voyage.

    At the moment we are discussing awarding progression on 'voyage complete'. The OP wants 100% but I think this is far too much, what most of us are discussing at the moment is leaving the loot rewards the same, but having some form of additional bonus rep when the 'voyage complete' sign comes up (i.e. when you have dug up your last chest or killed your last skeleton etc). The bonus needs to be big enough to have an impact, but obviously not so big that it is less of a priority for a player to defend their loot, which is core to the game.

    I have to completely disagree. I don't think a Reward should be given, when you haven't actually "finished" a Voyage by handing in the items you were sent to retrieve. It kind of contradicts the purpose of the Voyage... well what vague purpose they implemented within their Story anyway.

    In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Risking a Reward for Success. It is much more rewarding [not talking about Rep, or Gold], but a sense of accomplishment of actually making it to the end without losing a single piece of Item, whether that be by running, or by standing your ground and fighting back.

    Some people already run when they have Loot on board, and some fight back. This will not change regardless of if we get Rep for Completing a Voyage, or handing in a Voyage. It will still be the same, but there will just be that added "Risk" aspect to be able to receive something a little extra at the end by handing in the Items.

    I play Solo quite a bit, because I enjoy that Risk of dealing with Duo Sloops, or Galleon's, and coming out on top. Yes sometimes I don't, and I do lose everything, but hey, that's just the nature of the Game. I just shrug it off and start another Voyage.

    I think giving free Rep before the Items were handed in, would create another form for the Community to purely grind for Rep. They will do full Voyages, yet care not if they lose their Items, because the Risk of their Reward will be completely washed out to Sea... so to speak.

    They would have a sense of carelessness, because they are given what they desire, which is Rep, surprising enough, is what the Progression in SoT is all about.

    The Game needs to make ways to allow players to WANT to play the Game correctly, by doing Voyages, succeeding in the Voyages, and earning their Rewards and Bonus afterwards. This will be the incentive Players need.

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