Thanks for your thoughts on my post! (https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/61272/battle-worn-ships)
I think a combination of our ideas would work very well for making PvP more rewarding while protecting the PvE experience!

Regarding people taking turns sinking ships for free XP, I think the fact that ships spawn so far apart would put a pretty decent limit to this. (It would likely take longer to sail all the way back to the person who will let you sink them, then it would to just attack another nearby ship.) Also, since friends can't easily hop onto the same server, there would be a level of distrust that would cause players to be unlikely to allow someone to sink them for fear that the other player might not actually return the favor. Definitely something that would need to be monitored though in case it did start getting abused somehow.

Also, I think that scuttling should give the same credit to the attacker as sinking would (just like how in sports a forfeit doesn't penalize the winning team.)

@aaron-ozstriker thanks! The only thing I'd change is I don't think it should be after 1 ship but after a few :) I don't want PvE players to automatically have a bounty because they have killed 1 ship in self defence or something.

Someone else suggested the idea of adding souls to the game, when killing a player you get a soul, and souls can be used to unlock cosmetic items unique to player killers (i.e. PvP players) which I really liked!

Absolutely agree with this!

Please add Pirate Bounties to the game!

Attacker: If you attack a ship your ship and crew get tagged with a bounty. The bounty is now displayed at every outpost. For every ship you sink the Bounty grows making a higher value target. The longer you last with the bounty the more gold and PVP rep you gain. (Please add a new Blood/underground/black sails rep to the game...need help with names). Would be nice to have a PVP rep faction added to the game!

Defender: If you collect the bounty and are able to destroy the most wanted pirate crew you get to collect their skulls and turn in for a reward. The higher the value target the better reward and skull you collect. Also please add a Defender/light faction to the game for those willing to join the side of good and justice in the open seas.

@angrycoconut16

Solid ideas bud. Love all of it.

@stinerdasfuhrer I'll keep an eye out for that, I do recognise the name from being extremely dismissive on other threads.

@trickrtreat01 said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

@angrycoconut16 making someone a high value target because they sunk some ships is a form of punishment.

Debatable, I know some people feel that way but others have said they'd enjoy the challenge... and usually PvPers will enjoy having more fight opportunities. Plus lets be honest, Rare have programmed their servers so that player encounters take place every 15-30 minutes, there are not a huge number of ships on the server at any one time, so I don't think it's going to be too much of an issue. If someone has killed enough people to become a target it is very likely they are farming their faction and really enjoy PvP.

@khol-thndrwlkr said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

While I appreciate that this is very well thought out and written, I'm very much against any system that incentivizes player combat. I think the game already has more than enough reasons for players to prey on one another and this will completely erase any chance of ever having a non-violent encounter with another player.

More than enough reasons? Could you list them please? Part of the reason I came up with this idea is because in my honest opinion we lack incentives to PvP. It is literally a less efficient method of gaining rep and gold than just doing a few voyages, and that's all it is. You have no idea who has loot, how much, what faction, how skilled they are at PvP.... PvE is as far more efficient way of gaining loot... thus I think PvP needs more incentive currently. This is only compounded by the fact that if YOU have loot, it's usually an incredibly risky idea to PvP because if you lose, you stand to lose everything.

It also won't erase your chance of having non-violent combat, because people who dislike PvP won't suddenly start enjoying it because of this change. There will be like-minded people like you!

@stinerdasfuhrer said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

I feel like this would encourage people to just attack everyship they see then server hop and repeat the process. With the amount of kill on sight in this game I feel like it would add to that which is the biggest complaint with the game right now

I don't think anything is going to stop the attack on sight attitude some players have, and to be quite honest I don't think that needs to stop. People should be able to play the game how they see fit. If people really enjoy PvP and want to attack every ship on sight, nothing should stop them from doing that if that's what they find fun. Rare want to encourage everyone to enjoy the game how they want, my suggestion just tries to make PvP healthier for everyone, including the aggressors and victims

@angrycoconut16 making someone a high value target because they sunk some ships is a form of punishment.

While I appreciate that this is very well thought out and written, I'm very much against any system that incentivizes player combat. I think the game already has more than enough reasons for players to prey on one another and this will completely erase any chance of ever having a non-violent encounter with another player.

@trickrtreat01 said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

This is just a convoluted mess that won't stop anyone from from sinking ships.
Players should not be punished for sinking ships either.

You misunderstand this thread. We don't want to STOP people from sinking ships that's just silly. And this isn't a direct punishment, it's a system which would make really strong PvP players a more valuable target, meaning they will potentially be more of a target themselves, yes, but the threshhold is not after 1 kill or 2, it would be after multiple, so you would only become a target if for instance.. you sunk 5 ships without being sunk yourself. If they are strong players I wouldn't call this a punishment, more of a challenge.

This is just a convoluted mess that won't stop anyone from from sinking ships.
Players should not be punished for sinking ships either.

@iduskk If people quit, they keep their PvP bonus. The bonus literally remains with their account until they are sunk OR you could have a timer, perhaps a week? It needs to be long enough that people are discouraged from logging off to get rid of it. Remember the bonus only comes after sinking MULTIPLE ships, so it isn't going to be a massively common thing unless you really enjoy PvP and are going around making that your priority (hence what the system is hoping to achieve).

I think there is a better option to encouraging players to not hand in so frequently... making look like more enticing targets for having more loot is essentially a double whammy... 'oh not only do we have a villainous and 4 chests.. we also look like a very attractive target now..'

I think it is irrelevant how people feel about PvP on the forums, let me explain. PvP is a core part of the game and no matter how much people want, it is NOT going away (and there is no running away to PvE, or private servers etc etc) so if people want changes they need to embrace PvP and try to make it a more positive thing. At the moment people who have loot are usually terrified of PvP! Because it is a massive risk to them, they lose 100% of their time from that session if they lose the fight and their loot is stolen, and that is such a c**p feeling! That's what this thread is about if interested:

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/50676/give-us-our-xp-for-finishing-a-voyage-not-turning-in-the-chest-soul-animal/731?page=21

I think if people got a bit of bonus progression early they would feel a bit better about taking risks such as PvP and less negative if they did lose their loot. But yea, my suggestion is essentially aiming to make PvP more attractive for people to participate in, to make it healthier by discouraging attacks on new players or people who don't participate in PvP very often, and to provide a sense of REASON for more meaningful PvP...

@drakebg757 I beg to differ, if someone is headed to an outpost, ok they may have some items to turn in, otherwise you won't have much of an idea. I suppose if they are sailing away from an island it is safe to assume they have gained something. You don't know how much though, what sort of chest, what faction it's for, it's far less efficient if you focus purely on PvP than voyaging..

@iDuskk (with regard to your concern about scuttling)

I don't think people are going to scuttle so willingly if they have items, and it would be easy to implement a scuttle change where you can only scuttle if you have either:

1. received a cannon shot to your ship from an opposing crew
2. One of your crew members has been killed by an opposing crew

That would remove any chance of spiteful scuttling, and if people do scuttle, whoever landed that first kill/shot will be awarded the points.

Lol, to be quiet honest, Rares suggestion won't work. They are living in a dream world, in a real online game you have all sorts of players, yes you have friendlies, but you also have trolls, and people who enjoy role playing the back stabbing pirate, etc etc, people who would not think twice about shooting you and walking away with double the loot. They need to implement a few changes if they want to see people able to work together, otherwise a lot of people will be far too terrified, or you'll always have that minority who shows up purely to ruin the fun...

@drewbob7 said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

@AngryCoconut16 1. I do not suck at the game, I'm just pointing out flaws. I just feel that it might encourage chasing ships even more, now that you also get more rewards, because if cannons are fired, that would start a battle (this from your suggestion part btw) and if C1 chased C2 for 3 hours, then you get more Rep. Also, I kinda don't like this because I'm restarted my pirate so I can try to get legend only solo slooping, so yeah.

When did I ever say you sucked? o_O

If C1 chased C2 for 3 hours, there is no additional rep gain based on the chase length.

If you make a pirate specifically for solo, you have accepted the challenge. Solo is essentially this games 'hard mode', so that's not my concern.

As for your main point, yes I think it would encourage more PvP, for sure, but I think that's part of the positive of this post. A lot of players are TERRIFIED of PvP at the moment because of the potential to walk away with 0, losing all your loot in the process. This isn't healthy for the game, it creates negative feelings from PvE to PvP players, and people demanding their own server etc, literally people creating threads to rage because they are so angry and sad that they have lost their loot which they spent a significant amount of time to obtain... I think this is a separate issue which can be fixed using the ideas from this thread:

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/50676/give-us-our-xp-for-finishing-a-voyage-not-turning-in-the-chest-soul-animal/731?page=21

But yes, at the moment a lot of people are terrified of PvP, or like me, just view it as a waste of time most of the time. Why would I? PvE is a much more efficient way to progress. That's one part of the idea of this thread, to provide more incentive, yes PvP will happen more, but hopefully in a more positive light rather than the negativity it is viewed with now. (but I do think some form of loot change is needed too)

@angrycoconut16 Good idea, i hope..

I think a bounty system would be cool where it finds a target on the server, gives you a "last seen on X island" map that updates each time the target visits a new island, but I don't think in practice this would work. People would just quit or scuttle right when you're about to sink them to strip you of the voyage, or they might just stop playing for the night. Or they might not want to be targeted for PvP so they'll switch servers when they know they are.

idk, i think the way to encourage PvP is to offer a bonus for having more stuff on board. So people aren't selling their 2 castaways right away. But then again im pretty sure most people on the forums dont want PvP encouraged because PvP = Greifing somehow.

@wolftopia Again, you made my point. People really want to PvP, I have started to enjoy it myself from time to time.

But if people are just upset for ‘getting nothing’ than that’s your own fault. It’s pretty easy to tell if someone has something or not- you just have to be patient and pay attention to what others are doing.
All you are going to get from any system of being rewarded for sinking an ‘empty’ ship is a lot more ppl scuttling to spite/avoid you if they have nothing and see you coming.

Plus Rare has also made it clear that it isn’t necessarily PvP that is a big deal- but general organic player interaction. They want players to think about how to approach one another and leave a door open to be friendly in the face of danger.

@AngryCoconut16 1. I do not suck at the game, I'm just pointing out flaws. I just feel that it might encourage chasing ships even more, now that you also get more rewards, because if cannons are fired, that would start a battle (this from your suggestion part btw) and if C1 chased C2 for 3 hours, then you get more Rep. Also, I kinda don't like this because I'm restarted my pirate so I can try to get legend only solo slooping, so yeah.

@redeyesith Thanks! That's so interesting I had no idea the servers were so interactive. A bit confused by "you see a cryptic riddle on screen and hear the music, it kind of refers to the fact that the world is changing." Never noticed that, but yea, I have a better idea how it works now.

@angrycoconut16 said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

@redeyesith That could work. How do you know they do this at the moment do you have a source? I have no idea how the current sort of.. 'match making' system works currently.. I'd be interested to know what factors are used.

Here is an article that talks about it some on IGN: http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/02/13/sea-of-thieves-doesnt-have-a-maximum-or-minimum-server-size

@greaseman85 Yes this game is a freaking PvP for all essentially! What do you not understand about being in an open world where anyone can attack anyone at any damn time?! PvP is as core of an aspect of this game as a shared world adventure as you put it. PvP is a core of an aspect as completing voyages and sailing. The game is literally designed for players to collect loot and then need to protect it, from.. guess what.. PLAYERS! Why do you think the devs don't just give you gold/rep straight up when completing a quest or killing the last skeleton? Because they WANT the risk and paranoia of sailing on an ocean with loot and having to protect it, and some people being aggressive and trying to steal it from you!

You can't just join a game and say 'right I like fighting skeletons but I don't like fighting players, new server pls!!' That's not how it works, stop acting like a child. The ships are literally designed to shoot cannons at each other! Why do you think we have cannons on our ships?! To kill skeletons?? (ok can be handy for that occasionally) but its primary purpose is naval combat, if that doesn't tell you that PvP is an important part of this game you're a lost cause, why would they implement cannons for them not to be used?! Did you not see the ships firing at each other in the trailer?! I can't believe how far you're trying to push this.

You are not suggesting to improve PvP you are suggesting to remove it, and that's pathetic. Get a back bone and come back when you have a constructive positive way to improve PvP for all to enjoy otherwise tough luck, get used to what the game is.

@redeyesith That could work. How do you know they do this at the moment do you have a source? I have no idea how the current sort of.. 'match making' system works currently.. I'd be interested to know what factors are used.

@drakebg757 said in NEW FACTION - COMBAT/PVP:

I think rewarding players for killing and sinking ships alone is very bad. People already want to kill and sink ships, we don’t need more incentive.

I completely disagree. One of the major selling points of the game is the PvP and ship fighting, so there should be a reward for doing so. It's really frustrating (whether you were the attacker or victim) to take down a ship and not be rewarded because they didn't have treasure.

Now, I personally think that there should be a privateer NPC that will pay you money for turning in "Ship's Helms." These would be obtained after sinking a ship. Maybe the NPC could also ask you to take down ships of high reputation.