[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2
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I understand that it's a pirate game but the community is undeniably toxic right now. The other day I was solo navigating a sloop around and this galleon just ran up on me and sank my boat while I was on the island, I hadn't even gotten treasure(not like they even looked for it) then they joined me on the island and just shot me dead after I tried to share some grog with them. Another instance I had some people camping at an Outpost and they tried to trap me in the gold hoarders tent and kill me while I was turning in chests. I don't know what the fixes are for this but I have plenty of other instances of just toxic community and it's really disappointing, being chased down while you have nothing is just frustrating and more often than not they're not even in it for loot. So I don't know, it might be worth dealing with it if there were actually desirable rewards at the end of it, but lackluster cosmetics and title cards aren't gonna keep me around too much longer.
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@eviltacofanatic
What you are talking about is not toxic. Its the name of the game. And there is nothing to fix because the game is working exactly as intended. Its not called Sea of Niceguys!!! -
@nwo-azcrack
Griefing and camping outposts is pretty toxic.
It'd be less toxic if people would talk and interact instead of just shooting first and asking questions later. I get it "pirate yargh booty whatever" but I'm so tired of people just griefing without even communicating. The respawn distance has made it a little more tolerable but it's still unpleasant enough to deter me. -
Camping outposts is not toxic. Its part of the game. And earlier u said this community is toxic. Thats not true either. In my 31 years of gaming i have never seen a nicer group of pvpers. These forums are full of ppl willing to help and give advice. In game i would say 7 out of 10 ppl i come across dont even wanna fight......
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At this point I just wish I could get a refund. Rare rewards toxic griefers and allows blatant cheating in a game that is supposed to be about exploration, adventure and piracy. It feels like I bought a game in Alpha for the price I paid I should have gotten a triple A title. We got a game with two whole ships and three whole factions and really not a whole lot. I guess at this point I can just wait for the three month content drop but honestly I doubt it will be enough to make this game worth it. I had such high hopes.
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Problem
One thing that bothers me with player combat, is how little sound you and others make while moving. You can easily go up to someone and blow they head of while they are busy with something else, and they will have had no warning before you pulled the trigger on your blunderbuss. More like sea of ninjas than sea of thieves. Of course a bit fun when you self are exploiting this fact, but lot of play around this feel lost.Solution
There should be more sound when running on sand or swimming on the surface or climbing your ladder. And all players friend or for make the same amount of sound. This way if you suddenly heard someone on your deck or ladder. And you see your friends are actually on land you get a chance to react. Enemy's could use thing like swimming low under water to not make sound or use the walk mechanic. Making they do less sound, but at the cost of moving slower. -
@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
Me: So when will you implement safe zones or PvE servers?
Rare: Never.
Me: Ok, I understand.
Rare: So when are you buying the game?
Me: Never.Amen, I'm glad i used the free trial, I'm never going to purchase this c**p... No CONTENT , I will probably go sell my xbox today because what's the point anymore.
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@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
@nwo-azcrack You are exactly what's wrong with this game. Toxic 15 year old garbage.
He is right though, I've had people camping outposts and its a fair strategy, They can be easily seen by either their ship, or a mermaid - If you see a mermaid you know someone's waiting for you.
Frustrating when it suddenly happens but fair. -
@khaleesibot so last night me and my crew were attempting to sink a sloop that was screwing with us I say attempting because after 3 powder kegs to the hull while he was dead, peppering him with numerous common balls and even running him aground, he still managed to not to sink. We even killed him twice once on our boat and once on his. Yet his ship was still able to survive. I understand that a sloop is more maneuverable but the amount of damage we caused should have sank him 3 times over. This is beyond ridiculous.
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@thebarry420 You are also a problem with this game, thinking it is Call of Duty with cartoon pirates. This game isn't about shooting pirates on sight.
This game is gonna die soon thanks to people like you, unless Microsoft pressures Rare into making some much needed changes.
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@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
@thebarry420 You are also a problem with this game, thinking it is Call of Duty with cartoon pirates. This game isn't about shooting pirates on sight.
This game is gonna die soon thanks to people like you, unless Microsoft pressures Rare into making some much needed changes.
And where in my comment exactly did you see any indication that I shoot on sight?
You didn't read my comment at all.
I play for my own fun - I have friendly encounters and PVP encounters.
All I was saying it Is a valid strategy.. I'm not one to do it as I find it boring -
Don't shout that everyone is whats wrong with this game, YOU are... Salty AF and can't handle what people do...
This game is gonna die soon L**O, nah - Just whiny people too salty for the sea will stop playing.
Just keep a watch on your own fun and stop telling people how to play, Pathetic figure -
@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
@thebarry420 You are also a problem with this game, thinking it is Call of Duty with cartoon pirates. This game isn't about shooting pirates on sight.
This game is gonna die soon thanks to people like you, unless Microsoft pressures Rare into making some much needed changes.
I just wanted to make an extra comment to Laugh at you -
I am whats wrong with this game because I could see people who were camping outposts and found it a fair strategy. -
@thebarry420 Yes, you are a problem because you AGREE with what he's doing, which is toxic behavior. [mod edited]
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I must say that I whole-heartedly disagree with PVE-only servers as that takes away from one of the draws of the game: the random element inspired by other players. Without it the game can lose quite a bit of appeal as it currently doesn't have a huge draw otherwise. There's little uncertainty on the high seas without other ships on it, and that seems ultimately detrimental to the whole experience.
I feel the main problem with the game that generates so much PvP grief is that there simply isn't enough alternative things to do in the game right now. The quests we currently have are fun but rather simple for the most part, leaving a lot of players a bit unsatisfied with the whole Voyage concept as a whole right now. So they turn to what pirates are known for doing: pirating other ships.
But this is where another main issue comes to light: there's nobody to pirate but each other. With the Voyages currently leaving something to be desired and a lack of other targets, the easiest and most entertaining way to challenge yourself and your crew is to take on another ship. The added bonus of taking the opposing crew's loot is also a great motivator as your opponent could have AMAZING STUFF or nothing at all, making it a gamble as well. Those types of situations bring about some of the most entertaining moments in the game, but also some of the most frustrating when some crews just choose to troll the c**p out of people.
Now I can see 2 real ways of altering this. The first is to majorly step up production on additional things to do in the game with additional Factions or perhaps temporary islands with interesting structures/loot on them. Maybe have the ruins have special puzzles on them for really rare loot or something, or cosmetics not purchasable in town. New wildlife to deal with/hunt, new ocean hazards like whirlpools. Anything in general to make killing other crews equal to or less fun than killing other ships. I'm not sure how viable this is for them currently, but it would be the most effective way to tone down the BS we have to deal with from time to time.
The second fix I see for troll crews (which might be quicker to implement) is as such: After slaying a certain amount of crews (or if perhaps enough p****d-off players pay enough gold in an Outpost), a large unique A.I. Pirate Hunter ship will spawn on the seas with the specific intent of destroying the trolling ship. It will ignore all other crews (they weren't paid to kill the others) and in itself it has no treasures aboard to take. It will do all in its power to destroy the offending pirates menacing the high seas. It should probably be stronger than the standard pirate galleon as well (additional durability or cannons would be best), BUT should the trolling ship manage to pull off an unlikely victory they will get a unique customization for their ship (after all that's no easy feat to accomplish, much like taking on a Fort by yourselves).
The bottom line is that without additional content added to distract crews from attacking each other this situation will never really go away. Complain all you want about the PvP aspect that pervades the game (I'm all for PvP being standard because without the griefing it is quite fun and satisfying) but the only reason it exists so MUCH is because there's little else to do.
I hope Rare has a solid Roadmap and framework for what they want to deliver up and in front of the playerbase soon or they're going to have some major issues maintaining people's interest. Especially for something with a $60 pricetag on it.
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@da-lootmasta You don't have to play on PvE only servers, you can keep playing with like-minded PvP players. It should make your experience better, unless you are only interested in targeting people who don't want to engage in combat.
You seem to want the right to play on your own term, to bother other people and ruin their experience because you're bored with the game already, but don't want to afford those people the right to play on their own terms.
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@greaseman85 That's the thing, I almost never play in PvP myself. I am chiefly a PvE player, and usually solo to boot. I am simply of the opinion that the uncertainty brought on by other players in the vicinity adds a sense of urgency to what you are doing, that at any moment the situation could change. THAT is what keeps me on my toes in this game right now, and I simply feel that a PvE-only option takes away from the spirit of the game.
Bottom line I feel PvP is fine to have at all times in the game, I just think there's little enough to do in the game currently to dissuade players from using that as one of their chief source of entertainment in the game. Other factors should be added to make PvE just as enjoyable as PvP.
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@da-lootmasta Agreed. I think separating PvE and PvP is a last resort type of thing Rare should implement if all else fails.
I'm more inclined to have safe zones in the game with some exceptions.
For example, reduce the number of outposts but make them safe zones.
while I am in open waters, everything is fair game. If I safely make it to an outpost without engaging another ship on the way, then I should be free to roam that outpost in peace and sell whatever loot I have.
If I do engage another ship while I'm headed to an outpost, then the outpost stops being a safe zone for me and the other ship until one of us wins.I believe this addresses the chief complaint of PvPers against safe zones. The PvPers say safe zones kill the game because someone could just run from a fight. Well, if the safe zone is removed while you are in combat, that addresses that concern.
Implementing safe zones also addresses the problem of trolls who have nothing better to do than sink an empty docked ship for no reason other than their enjoyment, or those who camp on outposts. -
@greaseman85 Hmmmm I COULD see that as being useful, but the implementation of such a thing seems pretty difficult. The game would have to be programmed to recognize when a fight had been won or lost by one side, and it would have to be set to either the removal of crew or the destruction of the ship. Which can prove problematic as I've seen numerous ships with extra crew taken from defeated ships or just buddying up for fun. How would the island know there had been a victory for either side when both still exist?
I mean, you could potentially use a sort of timer for that kind of situation, but how long would you have to wait? What happens if another ship joins the fight? How far out does the safe zone even EXTEND? There's a lot of practical considerations that need to be taken into account for that kind of thing and the more I look at it the more issues it seems to create.
Maybe add the equivalent to the Fort towers to the Outposts that just shoot at anybody firing cannons within a certain radius from the Outpost. Maybe even add NPC pirate guards that wander the island that attack anyone who damages another player, as any pirate whose good time is interrupted by jerks will generally fill said jerk full of pistol shots. Watch them start pouring out of the Tavern once the sound of fighting fills the air. Easier to implement as it already uses current assets and less complicated coding.
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@da-lootmasta Armed NPCs and cannon towers are actually excellent ideas. That essentially makes the outpost a safe zone, albeit it doesn't address the trolls who take a powder keg under your docked, anchored ship while you're on an outpost and they sink it for no reason other than their enjoyment. Perhaps at outposts ships could be made invulnerable to sinking.
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@greaseman85
So im toxix for playing the game as it was meant to be played? Its a sandbox pvp game.... some of you want this game to be something its not. No worries tho. They have shot down safezones and pve servers numerous times. Get over it or move on to a new game -
@nwo-azcrack To be fair it's not supposed to be JUST a PvP-based game, that's just the way it's been shaping up to be with the lack of other things to do. No need to be snarky at players who are having a negative experience because the game is too heavily balanced towards something it was not advertised to be.
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@da-lootmasta
Im just tired of getting called toxic for nothing. I dont spawn camp, i dont camp outposts. I sink ur ship, take your stuff and move on. This is not a sailing simulator. This is not a pve game. It is a sandbox pvp game, and it is working exactly as rare intended -
@nwo-azcrack This game, per Rare, is a PvPvE game. The issue is that the PvE aspect is so lacking that PvP is where all the fun is for many players. Perhaps they think you are toxic because you keep negating the PvE aspect of the game in your comments. The PvE was an aspect which was advertised by Rare, which many players actually joined to do more than the PvP aspect. While you yourself may have joined specifically for the PvP, many did not and shooting down their concerns isn't exactly helpful.
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@da-lootmasta
Because you are supposed to do the pve under constant threat of pvp. They made this clear many times. But the ppl who have no clue what type of game they are playing come here on the forums and label ppl toxic for no reason. They beg for safezones and pve servers which would divide the community and goes against the core of the game. -
@eviltacofanatic said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
@nwo-azcrack
Griefing and camping outposts is pretty toxic.
It'd be less toxic if people would talk and interact instead of just shooting first and asking questions later. I get it "pirate yargh booty whatever" but I'm so tired of people just griefing without even communicating. The respawn distance has made it a little more tolerable but it's still unpleasant enough to deter me.its a good point. there are no consequences to doing any of that. We need the sea police.
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@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 2:
@da-lootmasta Agreed. I think separating PvE and PvP is a last resort type of thing Rare should implement if all else fails.
I'm more inclined to have safe zones in the game with some exceptions.
For example, reduce the number of outposts but make them safe zones.
while I am in open waters, everything is fair game. If I safely make it to an outpost without engaging another ship on the way, then I should be free to roam that outpost in peace and sell whatever loot I have.
If I do engage another ship while I'm headed to an outpost, then the outpost stops being a safe zone for me and the other ship until one of us wins.I believe this addresses the chief complaint of PvPers against safe zones. The PvPers say safe zones kill the game because someone could just run from a fight. Well, if the safe zone is removed while you are in combat, that addresses that concern.
Implementing safe zones also addresses the problem of trolls who have nothing better to do than sink an empty docked ship for no reason other than their enjoyment, or those who camp on outposts.i think pve servers arent the way to go. i know that will alienate some people. same thing with safe zones.
what you need to do is give larger crews something to do. a crew of 4 usually wants to go hunt other ships, where a crew of 1 or 2 wants to quest because well they aren't usually equipped well enough to hunt other people.
so more content for larger groups, like skelly forts, or npc ship fights, or harder quest lines, or kraken esque fights etc etc.
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i think i mentioned this before, but quests need to be more rewarding or at least feel like they progress. They feel identical even at rank 30.
People talk about progression and well when they are still digging up CA and SF at rank 30 it sure doesn't feel like progression. and is incredibly frustrating - especially considering the amount of rep they give you.have gold quests tier up. 0-10 you get cast away (CA) and Sea farers (SF). with rare chance of higher
At 10-20 you get SF and Maur with a better chance at higher
at 20-30 you get Maur and capts with a good chance at higher
at 30-40 you get Maur and Capts with a good chance at higher + relics/goodies
at 40-50 you get capts and speciality chest + chance at relics.
every 10 levels you have +1 min chest per map.At the end of riddle quests use the similar scaling quality but instead make it a cache of loot. Multiple chests, or chests+relics+trade goods.
most of the time i just cancel the riddles and look for a map with more than one X. Make all higher level quests multiple parts, and at the end you get a cache reward. Something like that.Skulls - why aren't we being sent to skelly forts? Sure skull fort but why isn't skelly kill quests being done there as well??? or make the skelly skull quests be more like the riddle quests. you need to summon the leader in some cool fashion that gives it a bit more depth. They are super bland right now.
Same thing with merchant, why is it at level 30 i'm only starting to see actual goods? Like create of cannon balls, or naners. or powder? if it's a pig quest, i usually ignore it. Feeding pigs is just incredibly annoying.
have shipwreck quests to go retrieve lost goods.
and i would love for them to have npc merchant ships that you need to go plunder and get some sweet ship on ship action. AFTER ALL WE ARE PIRATES. Not zoo keepers or live stock transporters. -
@grambo1980 If safe zones will alienate toxic players, then good riddance. I can't imagine any normal person be against safe zones like we have described in this thread.
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@nwo-azcrack It's been proven time and time again you have no clue what the game is supposed to be about, so stop with the "its a pvp sandbox game" or "safe zones go against the core of the game" c**p. You go ahead and enjoy whatever the hell you think this game is, I'm not here to ruin your experience, I'm only here to make my experience and many other players' experiences better. What we're asking for doesn't affect you in any way, unless you are a troll and toxic player.
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@greaseman85
Aside from ppl usin racial slurs in the chat there is no such thing as a toxic player in this game. The entire point of the game is to kill ,loot, sink. Maybe you should go watch rares videos about what their vision is for this game, instead of trying to change it to something its not