[Updated 2/5/2018] Soul Tokens, a PvP Faction and a Bounty System

  • Foreword: This idea is not meant to encourage griefing (ie: spawn killing or repeatedly assaulting the same ship over and over) so please do not jump in just shouting the idea down on that premise. Sea of Thieves is a PvPvE game and should and will always remain that way.

    Notice: I’ve noticed that the details on how all this would work were pretty vague, so I’ve decided to completely rewrite the thread for the purpose of clarity.

    As it is now, the game lacks any substantial reward for engaging in PvP. Not just from attacking other players, but also from defending yourself from other players.

    I agree that one of the risks in engaging in PvP is that your target may not have treasure and you’re just wasting supplies by attacking them. I also agree that successfully warding off an attack and securing your loot is reward in and of itself, but there’s nothing wrong with wanting a little something to show for that excellent combat prowess you just displayed.

    Remember, the entire mindset of this game’s progression is to make a name for yourself through titles and cosmetics to show off just what kind of pirate you are. With that concept in mind, I’d like to introduce…

    Soul Tokens

    Soul tokens would be a new currency implemented for participating in PvP. Acquiring soul tokens would be simple; Kill a pirate? Get a soul token. Once a player is killed however, there would be a 5 minute cooldown before that same player is worth another soul token. This cooldown can be eliminated by the affected player if they successfully damage another player.

    The mindset behind this is: “A player who doesn’t fight back is not worth killing, but a player who retaliates desires the challenge.”

    To further avoid spawn camping players for tokens or to prevent players from exploiting the system to farm tokens off each other all day, there would be a limit of 5 tokens you can receive from a single player in a 24 hour period.

    PvP Faction Vendors

    Players would be able to spend any soul tokens they acquire at the PvP Faction Vendor. He would function exactly the same as other factions, with reputation and ranks to earn that would unlock access to new cosmetics for clothing, ships, weapons and equipment. Specifically, items that would show everyone how much of a threat you are and whether they should run when they see you coming or rise to the challenge to try and take you down.

    Players would also be able to take on PvP focused voyages in which they would be tasked to kill a certain number of players, sink a certain number of ships, or a combination of both. For example, you might be required to kill 3 players. These would have to be 3 unique player kills. Killing the same person 3 times will not work. The voyage would complete upon completing the objective and you would earn a number of soul tokens and reputation. As players raised their rank they would unlock more challenging quests (such as sinking multiple galleons within a certain number of in game days).

    Reputation would also be earned in small part by just participating in PvP. When you kill a player and get a soul token, you will also receive an amount of reputation based on their faction rank in comparison to yours. So a Rank 5 killing a Rank 10 would earn more reputation for the kill than a Rank 10 killing a Rank 5. This would make attacking lower skilled players less rewarding, but attacking higher skilled players a worthwhile challenge.

    Because of the new incentive for PvP however, the seas might start to get a little murdery. To help keep people from going overboard with the killing and the sinking, a notoriety system needs to be put in place.

    Notoriety

    The more pirates a player kills, the more their notoriety would increase. This notoriety would remain, after death and across sessions, until the player went a significant amount of in-game time not attacking anyone. At that point their notoriety would start falling gradually and eventually disappearing all together.

    As players climb in notoriety they’ll be made higher and higher priorities for bounty hunters.

    The Bounty Vendor

    This would be a special vendor who specifically provides contracts for attacking notorious pirates. Unlike other voyage vendors, the Bounty Vendor would display a list of all the notorious players, sorted by their notoriety rank (Fiend, Terror, Scourge, etc…). The more notorious the pirate, the greater the reward. Players could sift through and pick a target based on how much of a challenge they wanted, but only one player could track another player at a time.

    When a bounty contract is accepted the player would receive a wanted poster stating where the target was last seen (nearest island) with an image of the ship they are sailing (Sloop/Galleon and what sail design they have on). The player and their crew would then be merged into the same server as their target.

    Once the players track down their target, kill them and sink their ship, they would be rewarded with a number of soul tokens and reputation based on the notoriety level of the target.

    Benefits of this System

    1. I feel this would generate a more worthwhile interest in PvP and give people who don’t always enjoy the currently available quests a little something to spice things up.

    2. A reward is granted to both people who successfully attack another player and people who successfully defend themselves from other players. As it is now, successfully warding off enemy pirates just makes it so it took an extra 30 to 60 minutes to turn in that treasure you found.

    3. With the bounties, players would be able to seek out other players who are also interested in PvP while simultaneously acting as a sort of guardian for other players who stray away from the fights.

    4. Even people who don’t particularly like PvP would benefit from this. Since people are going to be attacked regardless, at the very least they can try and manage to get a kill and take something away from the scenario.

    5. This would effectively deter a large amount of spawn camping since in order to benefit from killing other players, people would have to give those players a fair chance to defend themselves.

    Concerns

    I understand people’s concerns about locking away content behind something and taking away player choice, but I really feel this doesn’t take away anything. If anything it adds a little more choice to the game and creates more venues for players to take their adventure on.

    Each faction already locks content away behind their reputation grind. Yes, you can happen across treasures in the world and turn them in for reputation and gold. However, someone going hardcore into completing the Merchant Alliance voyages is going to rank up much quicker than someone just sort of dropping off random crates as they comes across them.

    The same mentality can be applied to this PvP faction. You don’t need to be doing a PvP voyage to earn soul tokens and reputation with the faction, you’ll just earn them faster if you actively participate in the quests. Just like the difference between turning in a golden chicken to a random outpost and turning it in at an outpost that ordered it.

    Not to mention it’s something that most players just sort of do every now and again regardless of your goals that day. Getting attacked just kind of happens sometimes and now people can actively gain from that. The community of this game is fairly helpful as well. If someone wants to do the PvP stuff, but isn’t particularly good at it, I’m certain there are people on this forum who would happily crew up with them and help them along.

    Thank You to:
    @VykarR - Increased cooldown time for soul tokens
    @MoonMonster11 - Limited number of soul tokens per player per day
    @AngryCoconut16 - Reputation gain from kills based on faction rank

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  • I actually quite like the concept of this and you have definately thought about trying to reduce the griefing side of things.
    My one negative thought would be it introduces a game concept that has to be played PVP.

    At the moment i can play and achieve everything in the game without ever needing to play in a PVP style, this idea would make that completely impossible.

    Unfortunately that would change the game from an open world experience with PVP and PVE like experiences to a game that needed PVP to complete.

    So I can't see it happening as it goes against the core of what the game is

  • Good idea. But this kind of "quest" has to be optional.
    Maybe even get another title than just "legendary captain", maybe ruthless pirate? So that the guys in the secret hideout talk different to you (Since you killed many pirates).

    But in all this would be awesome!

  • This is what the game needs!! PvP is such a core incentive of the game but there is no real incentive for it.However, I would suggest gaining points for sinking ships rather than killing pirates to help avoid griefing. Varying point gains based on sinking sloop Vs galleon and varying point gains based on how much treasure you currently have on your ship, bigger risk = bigger reward.

  • @djslydeviant

    I can understand the concerns of content being locked to a certain aspect of the game, but as its only vanity and its idea is intended to show that you're a PvP savvy scallywag, it would make sense you'd have to be more inclined to PvP to acquire it.

  • This is a really good idea.

    I don't think it would turn this game in to something where you MUST do PVP. But just some different "quests" to do when you are bored of PVE or just want to try something different to get that beautiful coat!

    The only thing that i'll change is cooldown. Also if you don't fight back i can just stay around you wait one minute and take another token or attack you leaving you with low health waiting to one shot you. Just make it higher like 5 min or more and it would be better.

  • @wolff-bringer

    Different Pirate Legend titles depending on your playstyle would be great. I don't see something like that happening though, just because of how Legend works currently.

    Though titles in the same vein as the other factions would be pretty cool.

  • @subaqueousreach

    I understand that, what im saying is it would create part of the game that was only achieveable through PVP which goes against the ethos of the game.

    Most of the game is currently only vanity based and can be achieved through any play style, this would create content that is locked out unless you play PVP.

  • @VykarR

    As far as the cooldowns go, I was thinking about how WoWs Honor system works, where someone isn't worth points for a period of time. A longer cooldown could be a good variation though.

    You could in theory stand and wait for the timer to run out, but in that time the player can decide on a multitude of things. One being if they even want to keep fighting at all.

  • @subaqueousreach sagte in Soul Tokens and a PvP Faction:

    @wolff-bringer

    Different Pirate Legend titles depending on your playstyle would be great. I don't see something like that happening though, just because of how Legend works currently.

    Though titles in the same vein as the other factions would be pretty cool.

    You still get the same things and the pirate lord still accepts you. It would be cool if they just recognize you as a pirate killer and just gives some different dialogue. Everything else should be the same, you should not get downsides or upsides.

  • @wolff-bringer

    That'd work for sure. Basically the whole idea is recognition for being a scourge of the seas. That's a little lacking.

  • @djslydeviant

    Fair enough, but you wouldn't only earn tokens for the quests. Players who successfully defend themselves would earn soul tokens in the same regard.

    They would still be able to acquire it, but at a slower pace than those who prefer PvP over PvE.

  • @subaqueousreach My buddies and I were discussing something quite similar to this last night (great minds think arrrr-like, right?)

    I do have a suggestion though that may improve on this experience, let me know what you think:

    1. Maybe, instead of the "soul token" idea, you get a ship's name plate for sinking an enemy vessel. You then could turn the name plate into P.V.Petey (humor me) for new faction rep. Every crew would need to name their ship upon entering a server, and you could only hold 1 name plate of any given ship. You could even pull a nameplate off of sunken ships as well (so more PVE oriented players have a path to rank this faction).
      I think this is a slight improvement for 2 reasons:
    2. It (mostly) eliminates the griefing aspect. Sure you will always have those pirates who harass others but by keeping the rules to 1 nameplate per ship name means after you sink an enemy ship you would probably want to grab the name plate and turn it in rather than hang out and battle continuously.
    3. By allowing the name plates to be discovered aboard sunken ships as well, you are giving more players the option to participate in this faction. (We must remember our solo player friends, as well as those weird PVE people :) ).

    So, just a thought, let me know. Brilliant idea though

  • @subaqueousreach said in Soul Tokens and a PvP Faction:

    Foreword: This idea is not meant to encourage griefing so please don't jump in just shouting down the idea for that premise. I simply want to improve aspects of the game. In the end Sea of Thieves is a PvPvE game and will always remain that.

    I personally feel that the game lacks any substantial reward for PvP. Not solely from attacking other players, but also for successfully defending yourself.

    You can't tell if someone has treasure until you've already attacked them and if they don't then the whole battle, while still fun, is kind of a waste of time and resources. Likewise if I successfully drive off two opposing galleons and send them to Davy Jones locker while securing my loot, I'd like a little something to show for my prowess.

    Remember the whole idea of the game is to be recognized for your accomplishments through your vanity gear. It's a literal reputation you're creating for yourself.

    As such I'd like to introduce the idea of Soul Tokens and a PvP faction similar to the Gold Hoarders, Order of Souls and Merchant Alliance.

    Soul Tokens

    The way Soul Tokens would work is simple. Kill a pirate, get a Soul Token. There would be a cooldown however.

    After a player respawns they are not worth a Soul Token again for 60 seconds. This cooldown would be removed if the affected player successfully damages another player and they would once again be worth a Soul Token. The idea is that a foe who doesn't fight back isn't worth the effort, but one who fights back desires the challenge.

    Soul Tokens would be spent at...

    The PvP Faction Vendor

    Here players could spend the Soul Tokens they've acquired to purchase unique cosmetics for participating in PvP. A visible sign to show they're a force to be reckoned with. Someone to avoid if you don't like a fight or to challenge if you want to test your mettle as a pirate.

    Players could also get PvP quests to get a certain number of kills or sink a certain number of ships in return for a handful of Soul Tokens. The caveat would be that these need to be unique kills. Doubles don't count. This way people can't farm the quests by sinking the same players over and over, thus ruining someone else's experience for the sake of their own enjoyment.

    The idea behind this is twofold:

    1. To generate more of a worthwhile interest in PvP and give people who don't always enjoy the currently available quests a little something to spice up the game.
    2. To generate more bonus for players who successfully defend themselves as these battles can be long lasting. I've fought off plenty of people and all I got for it was that it took an extra amount of time to turn in my loot.

    I have a better idea... Inspired by another thread i saw earlier today but i can't find it again.

    A fancy bounty system involving the flags ontop of the crows nest of ships.

    By Default, that flag is white, and when sinking a ship with a white flag, you can take the flag and sell it to ANY faction you want... This allows an optional method for those of us who aren't into catching chickens for the merchant alliance for instance.

    Anyways, ships that have sunk ships gain different colours worth more the more ships the ship has sunk...

    0 ships sunk: level 1 flag (white flag) 200-500 gold each
    1 ship sunk: level 2 flag (darker colour, not a pro with this) 500-1000 gold
    2 ships sunk: level 3 flag (darker colour again) 1000 - 1500 gold
    3 ships sunk: level 4 flag (black flag) 1500- 2000 gold
    4 or more ships sunk: level 5 flag (Unique appearance, sort of like a legendary chest) 2000 - 3000 gold

    This gives PvP more substance, and also encourages the most aggressive players to attack eachother. That way the PvE community can stop whining about over-agressive pirates, defenders get something for defending the skeleton fort, PvPers get more reliable progression, and a proper bounty system would be in place.

    Everybody wins.

  • I like this idea, I think it would add a lot to the game. I would also suggest combining a bounty system with this, that might bring PvE players to PVP. It gives them something to fight for.

  • Not read all the other comments however I like the idea of giving us something for the kill which means even if you don't win the overall battle and you lose your ship and any treasure if you make some kills etc along the way you come out with something.

  • @sweltering-nick

    I actually really like that idea. I was also thinking of a kind of notoriety/bounty system along the same lines where players with a significant number of kills under their belt are worth a bounty if you take them out.

  • @subaqueousreach If you like my idea, give my comment an upvote! Upvotes are important for spreading awareness, and letting Rare know what the community wants!

  • @reetz13

    This would be a good alternative for sure.

    Honestly anything to spruce up the monotony of the fetch =P

  • I honestly see this doing nothing but encouraging and rewarding larger crews for attacking smaller or solo ships. The question of whether a potential target has loot to make an attack worth while is the only real risk in PvP right now, and a system like this would eliminate that sole risk entirely.

    The game is design with PvP being a risk to the completion of other voyages and activities. I don’t think making PvP an actual rewarding (beyond the thrill of PvP) activity would do anything to improve the game, and could, in fact, damage it.

  • @tententacles

    Well larger ships are already attacking smaller ships as it is. Pirates tend to prey on the weak. That's their whole shtick.

    That said, these ideas are simply a suggestion to add some more structure to the game and are designed so that griefers won't benefit from their usually tactics.

    If you don't agree that's fine. I just think it would be a nice addition.

  • The reward for PvP is getting the loot they have onboard. If they don't have any then you move on to someone else. Its the luck of the draw. You might find someone with alot or none, you take that chance by choosing to attack

  • @vykarr

    I took your advice and changed it to 5 minutes. That does make a lot more sense and also makes it so people who don't want to fight can't just be out waited.

  • @sbvstw

    This was designed to be beneficial for attacking and defending against other players.

    I get the idea is stealing the loot, but I'd also love a cool coat that says "I killed a hundred people for this and you're next"

  • @subaqueousreach

    True, I think you don't really need an incentive to defend yourself. Being a sloop and getting attacked by a Galleon only for you to sink said Galleon is reward enough, and the fact they may have a s**t ton of loot!

    my idea was like a "Bounty System" where it tracks the amount of people you've killed or cannons you've shot at another ship. It's actually better for those who don't really attack others. I didn't really expand much but I think it sorta ties in with what you are thinking

    I'll link you and you can see what I mean:

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/49011/wanted-system-for-pvp-players

  • @sbvstw

    I've been thinking of a kind of notoriety system as well. Essentially, the more kills a player has under their belt the bigger the bounty they're worth and players can try to take them down.

    @Sweltering-Nick also had a pretty solid bounty system a little further up in the thread.

  • As it's currently suggested, it would be way too easy to just trade soul tokens with another player(s) by keeping their sloops docked and safe near each other and just killing each other over and over again. Three people could continuously agree to get killed, cause some damage (to remove cooldown), get a kill, then get killed, over and over, repetitively till they maxed their level or tokens

  • @moonmonster11

    That's a good point. Perhaps there could be a limit to the number of tokens you can receive from a single player per day. Once you get 5 tokens from killing someone you can't get another token from that person for 24 hours.

    This would also further limit griefing for tokens.

  • I've changed some things around and added a notoriety and bounty system.

    Let me know what you think and what changes you would make.

  • @subaqueousreach This is the best PvP idea I've seen in a while. A few comments which came into my head...

    1. When you say it's a PvP faction vendor, is it additionally a new faction in the way that you need reputation? Or is it purely a new vendor which sells things for soul tokens? In other words, how does this function like a faction? I'd think of it more as a new type of currency in the game and a new NPC shop.

    2. I've also made a similar bounty suggestion but one thing which came into my head... if you accept the quest and try to hunt the target and move to their server, you do not want too many people hunting that target at the same time, Rare want to limit player encounters to every 15-30 minutes. In light of this, perhaps only one person could accept a quest for each notorious pirate at each time? Or a maximum of two at once until they are sunk or something?

    3. With my idea people lost their bounty/notoriety on being killed.. people have already complained on my idea that it makes people a target which is a form of punishment. (very debatable in my mind), your idea takes this to another level... but I suppose if players kill enough and aren't killed back, to a point where they get the sufficient level of notoriety required to be a target, they will probably enjoy increased PvP interaction/the challenge.

    4. This is a great idea but wouldn't it only give PvP added incentive until someone has acquired all of the cosmetics they desire from this NPC? Then what?

    I'd appreciate your feedback on my idea too! https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/49649/new-faction-combat-pvp/104?page=3

    Thanks :)

  • @AngryCoconut16

    Thanks for the feedback! You've raised a lot of good questions.

    1. It would function similarly to other factions where you gain reputation upon completing quests successfully. Ranking up would unlock new titles, equipment cosmetics and more challenging quests (such as having to sink two or three different galleons or perhaps having a time limit). The Bounty Vendor would be separate from the PvP Faction Vendor, but successfully completing a bounty would also gain you the PvP faction reputation so you don't solely have to hunt innocent players.

    2. The Bounty system would only allow for one pirate to hunt another at a time. Though this does make me feel like the Bounty vendor's voyage system would have to differ from the other vendors however since it would have to update in real time. Perhaps having multiple lists with targets sorted by the different tiers of notoriety (Fiend, Terror, Scourge, etc...)

    3. Essentially the bounty system is in place to balance the new PvP incentive. It's to try and sway people from going too far overboard with the PvP, but also to provide some players who want to PvP a target who is all about that aspect of the game. The notoriety won't last forever though. If a player goes long enough without killing anyone their notoriety will start to drop.

    4. I've said the same thing about the current faction vendors in the game. That's what cosmetic updates are for. Until the recent update I had all the clothing I wanted from the vendors and was saving up for my ship hull, but now the Sea Dog Corsair jacket has perked my interest.

    I've actually taken a look through your thread before and it's a solid idea. Players being worth more for being a higher rank makes a lot of sense and it would further deter assaulting less skilled PvP players.

    I think I'm going to go over my initial post again later today and put it all into more detail so as to make the idea more clear. Do you mind if I include your idea about making higher rank players worth more? I'll credit you for the idea obviously =)

  • @subaqueousreach

    1. Ah ok. Quests = soul token and rep reward. This actually works quite nicely with my idea, a handful of people mentioned that they also wanted gold for successful kills but I was sort of against that.. I think it's good to encourage PvPvE and that also means encouraging PvE to do a little PvP and vice versa. Obviously if they completely hate it they should never be 'forced' to do it any more than necessary... but this idea still gives unique items in the place of gold which is a great idea. Obviously gold could still come from loot the victim has but this is inconsistent. I think it would also be good if this quest was 'ongoing' so it isn't like a voyage, but an ongoing thing which can be started. Then if a PvE player such as myself sees a ship we can think 'ah actually, lets go and attack them now!', it would be helpful for opportunist players and sometimes finding ships isn't fun as it involves sailing around aimlessly :P

    2. Yea, I like that idea very much. But people can still choose who they want to. Perhaps some are intimidated by the top rank and want to go after a lower down one for instance. Nice plan.

    3. Yea. I agree with this too. If the correct threshold is taken with my idea people will only become a bounty if they achieve a certain number of kills WITHOUT being sunk themselves. With your idea I suppose if they kill multiple people, 1 death won't stop them becoming notorious if they are good at PvP as they don't lose all their notoriety on one death? I think this is probably a better system otherwise people may abuse mine 'oh hang on I've got too much bounty, here, it's your lucky day, kill us so we can reset our bounty'.. your system is less abusable :)

    4. Well I also like the 'grinding to pirate legend' aspect of it, that's what I was mainly after, so if there is reputation too then that satisfies me :P I just think these things need a long term aim, which rep is. Cosmetics are a bit shorter term but always nice to have!

    Yes of course! Add any ideas from mine you need. It's funny how we came up with similar principles and I honestly don't mind how the idea gets implemented, I just think if something to this effect was implemented it could be very positive for the game. Incentive for PvP, discouraging less experienced players as targets.. etc etc.

    And oh awesome! I do like to share my thread where I think relevant to try to get a little more traction :) Do you know if you've commented on my thread before? If not would you be able to, just to give it a bump? :)

  • @subaqueousreach like all, except bounty, sadly, is a game you can just drop connection, and bounty system is gone, but all the other ideas, love em

  • Was slightly skeptical and thought you were going to overcomplicate the suggestion with convoluted systems, but the suggestion is pretty clean.

    I liked the server merge idea, the game has this system in place that can seaminglessly transport you to another instance, however I think this might be exploitable and cause very frustrating situations of endless chase over different instances, or even using it to flee or even team up with another crew for server domination. Wanting to actually leave an ongoing session with no hope of ever returning to it might be bad as well.

  • @urihamrayne To be quite honest if someone disconnects for a new server when being chased to avoid being chased, they deserve to be chased more. That's a ridiculous way to play the game and if people are a target, it's only because they have killed enough people to be there, so they shouldn't be against being chased themselves.

    As for 'teaming up', I think that's simple to solve, just award the bounty to whoever has the active quest. Then there is far less incentive for anyone to help.

    @mgbeares the bounty would be available while a player is offline too, but it would only become 'active' when the player logs in. Just make this bounty last 2 weeks or something, or whatever time is deemed suitable to prevent logging off to 'clear' themselves of the bounty.

    @subaqueousReach I've been thinking, I think I will add some of your ideas to my thread too if you don't mind? Particularly the idea of the server merge as that's a great idea and uses an in place system... but I might consider adding the shop idea too.. I probably won't get round to it for a little while but I'll definitely credit you :)

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