[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

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    @khaleesibot Death cost is a terrible idea and bad for the game. Do not do it.

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    Even with the “PvP deaths won’t be taxed” pledge, how do you justify taxing us gold for getting stuck in a shipwreck? Dying by a hidden snake while mid battle with 7 angry nightshade skellies? Slipping off a cliff? Running out of bananas (I’m looking at you PIG!)? ...and the algorithm to determine which death is more avoidable would need to be pretty robust to know a player shot that powder keg and not that eagle-eye, boney so&so creaking behind him.... I can’t see this being a good idea at all Rare. The biggest point being it’ll take all the fun out of the game.... literally ALL of the fun, not just some.

  • 4

    Hurray! Death costs no more!

  • 1

    But we still need something to happen when you lose a fight. Winning and losing in pvp should matter - a sunken ship respawning 2 minutes away with more resources and dropping nothing for the winner doesn't feel good.

    The ideas I like best are: respawn as far away as possible or on another server AND have sunken ship resource barrels float up to be scavenged.

  • 4

    @khaleesibot thanks for listening and doing away with the idea of a death cost 👍

  • 1

    This is the complete opposite approach I feel. Why punish players for dying? It's already pretty glum to have your ship sunk or be killed and have to wait to respawn as you hear your friends struggle to save the ship and then lose all your loot and get spawned away from where you need to be. I think it's fair punishment enough to make me not want to die.

    There's obviously a much better solution to this problem. Reward me. Can't I get some gold for killing a player? Maybe just 100 gold for killing a player and 500 for sinking their ship. Something like that would encourage me to care about winning a fight because I have something to gain, not because I have something to lose.

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    No to “Death Cost,” but yes to Distance Cost. Distance Cost meaning that when your ship sinks, you and your ship respawn at an outpost on the other side of the map. PvE “Death Cost” would cause even more casual gamers to quit, which is already becoming an issue with veteran gamer griefing and camping.

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    @khaleesibot

    same sloop and gallion attacked us 4 times. each within minutes. spawn is not far enough away. im ok with a very very small slight death cost but nothing crazy.

    1. first time ship is sunk by other players it should respawn at the far end of the map.

    2. second time ship is sunk it should be server switched upon respawn with your systems awesome seamless server swapper.

    biggest exploit of the game right now is the ability to spawn in close by and reattack over and over and over and over.

  • 1

    I don't see the usefulness of making our death pay, as we can win x1000 times more in 2 hours, except penalize people who have less than 1k gold, what is the purpose of this? is it really a priority? there is just one thing to do for death, nothing to see, but it is to spawn the new boat of the losers, as far as possible from the winners.

  • 0

    My Suggestion is this:
    For Players who actively seek to PvP frequently, such as killing a large amount of players (factor in spawn camping) they incur a larger death penalty. This penalty comes in the form of a gold cost and a longer respawn timer that increases with players killed. Putting a limit on when this activates will allow standard PvP but beyond that, such as senselessly killing other players will rack this counter up, making it less and less profitable.
    If a PvP player isn't making any gains, then they are actively sabotaging themselves.

    This game should encourage light PvP. The problem is there is no real loss or gains for killing players. Cosmetics do nothing, so even with a real loss tacked on to the game, it is still meaningless.

    I hope Rare will do what is best for their game and player base, not what is best for their ideals. The excuse (for anonymity of other ships) of "we don't want to do that because we like the mystery" Doesn't help your game. The ego and idealistic stance they have taken can only hurt them in the long run.

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    Lets be honest, here.

    This wouldnt even be in consideration if folk didnt take the whole concept of piracy to foolish levels and do nothing but kill sloops in their galleons and grief them constantly.

    There is being a pirate, then there is being overly stupid for your own hollow sense of self-gratification. Thank those pirates for any incoming mechanics like this to deal with the fools of the sea, as its a direct response to them acting “extra” just becuase there is a PvP option.

    Steal loot and sinking ships are of course part of the game, but if we dont put on our own self limiting factors, well, GodHammer will fall and make changes, and by then its too late.

  • 1

    @hypnotiksykotik This is a dumb idea. You think that a gold penalty is going to stop someone who enjoys making adult-sized children angry from making adult-sized children angry? You want to stop being griefed? Stop being griefable. Everyone knew, or should have known if they have a normally functioning brain, what the game was about the very moment that they knew it was going to be a shared world game with the possibility of running into hostile players.

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    Well it seems the death tax is dead and this thread will probably be locked soon.

    I for one do not understand the majority of player's angst about the death tax. Gold in this game has no value currently. You can buy cosmetic items that won't change your gameplay at all. So honestly who cares if you have a death tax? Right now I have nothing of value to spend gold on. I am sitting on a Smaug like pile of gold and I wish there was something to do with it.

    I never liked the idea of a death tax, but I kinda shrugged it off as
    'who cares?' Apparently a lot of players value their worthless gold more than I do.

    I do really like the idea of having to pay to have your ship respawned from the shipwrights though. It's a meaningful use for gold and it's realistic to expect to have to pay for a new boat. A pirate's ship was of immense value. Right now who cares if yours gets sunk or lost? Just get another identical one for free at next to no time penalty.

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    I dont think punishing people for playing agressively and taking initiative is a good thing. Gold loss on death would mean that in a way, overly cautious or cowardice playing is rewarded while the more intense and fun playing is punished.

    While PvP doesnt have that, it still affects it, like using a gunpowder barrel on opponents boat and die to the explosion that you caused guite likely counts as non-PvP death. Other example is trying to board opponents ship agressively and getting eaten by a shark.

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    they just said on the new update notes that death cost is dead. thank you for listening to the community Rare!

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    @ttargetpractice Haven't been griefed myself at all actually, let alone actually engaged in PvP except for a small island engagement against a 10 yr old who thought he could trick us.

    As for stop being griefable, I'd like to ask how a player does that when being spawn camped and chased down repeatedly. The only real option is to quit and join a different server altogether. That is not a plausible fix.

    I don't mind the PvP aspect as it adds to the allure, and I understand it's part of the game. I seriously doubt spawn camping is an intended mechanic, nor is killing people for fun. That is not piracy. That's why I proposed the mechanic in my earlier post: Allow PvP to extent while limiting the maniacal tendencies. Killing two ships in an hour and then dying will have little to no affect upon the player, and with any chest they gain will still net a positive in gold income. Spawn camping and ship killing sprees while dumping chest into the water or chasing players who just spawned will net a more negative outcome as they will forego the income. If they dump chest into the water they obviously don't care about the gold to begin with.

    As my final point, I can respect your opinion, but being a jerk about it doesn't spur discussion and devalues your own opinions. If you have any thought to grow the longevity of the game beyond "that's just how it is", I'm all ears.
    If you want to sink players, find some way to keep the player base without being condescending and alienating them.

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    @deadactionjones ha detto in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    they just said on the new update notes that death cost is dead. thank you for listening to the community Rare!

    Hi!
    can you link that "new update notes" ?
    thank you very much :D

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    @hypnotiksykotik You should understand that I didn't share an opinion in this topic. These are logical consistencies. I'm not speaking about what I like, dislike, or think about certain things. I'm speaking about what is.

    And yes, changing server is a solution to being chased. That, or turn and kill your attackers.

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    @ttargetpractice One solution for one problem. You did not address spawn camping, nor do you understand that changing servers only lets you escape your current attackers, not any new ones. You're welcome to turn and kill your attackers as well, but that just allows them to restock and chase you down again, not like they are far away.
    Try attacking a fort, then getting attacked by another group, kill them and then watch them come back a few minutes later to try to take you on again.

    Minor workarounds and not actual solutions.

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    Sounds Good when you kill some enemy pirate player and you grab some golds/xp !

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    @r3dmidnight said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadactionjones ha detto in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    they just said on the new update notes that death cost is dead. thank you for listening to the community Rare!

    Hi!
    can you link that "new update notes" ?
    thank you very much :D

  • 0

    @deadactionjones said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @r3dmidnight said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadactionjones ha detto in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    they just said on the new update notes that death cost is dead. thank you for listening to the community Rare!

    Hi!
    can you link that "new update notes" ?
    thank you very much :D

    Thank you for this!

  • 0

    @cloudedmonkey no problem. :D

  • 3

    @katttruewalker said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Rare read the forums, they are aware of issues that the Community are discussing and they will act on the feedback received. We've seen this time and again since the first Alpha tests.

    This is what the Mega threads are for.

    Thank you for posting this!

    And also: a really big thanks to Rare for listening to the community. And not just for listening, but for first communicating the plans ahead of time, and then actually watching the community's response and being willing to consider how we felt.

    That's huge.

    Looking forward to sailing these seas with all of you, friend or foe, for a long, long time.

  • 0

    @brigs-maroon Well said Mate, Cheers!

  • 0

    Death Cost not coming.

  • 1

    @frosenborg said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Death Cost not coming.

    Excellent, in that case @Deckhands this thread can probably be locked down, no? No need to discuss further about something that aint happening anymore :)

  • 1

    @khaleesibot I think every pirate should start with a random number of lives, never to be revealed, and when the last one is spent, you're forced to start over and the only cosmetics you keep are the ones you can't buy (black dog, mercenary, et al.).

    This was the mechanic implemented for Drow on a Neverwinter Nights server I used to play on to simulate the difficult life associated with Drow society and it made us all think twice about engaging in unnecessary combat. You never knew which mistake would be your last.

  • 0

    I'm interested in the idea of giving pirates a incentive to be more careful but I think that depending on the implementation it could greatly deduct from the overall enjoyment of the order of souls voyages.

    I think a bigger issue is with respawning ships being able to harass the same crew even if they've been sunk an uncountable amount. It's really disheartening for a good crew to have to keep wasting resources on the same ship.

    That's my two cents

    -Blake

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    Maybe on the flip side, we can have a reward for pvp related deaths like a small allowance of experience for all three companies, or some token of gold. But only once against the crew that was defeated for a certain amount of time so the players don't get farmed.

    Another idea would be to have an entire ships' load of supplies be transferred to the winning crew in some way as a reward by sinking the ship. So you would have the death cost for pve casualties, and an incentive for pvp victories. A pvp penalty could be things like increased spawn times, farther distances, or some other way to convince the ferryman besides gold.

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    So my thinking is this implement the death tax but make it a game. You can pay to leave or you while dead have a map that only you can see. You have to tell your crew to sail to a random x on the map by a certain time to witness the Green Flash thus springing you from the ferry without having to pay. Maybe the live crew has to fight off skeletons while waiting

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    @cypherius-nl
    I’d prefer it done this way.
    How about you are encouraged to wait longer than the 30 seconds depending on the death. Not forced to wait longer, but if you only wait 30 seconds, you’ll face a small temporary curse when you respawn.

  • 0

    This is absolutely the worse idea Rare had so far.
    They want to punish sloop player getting killed by skellies, while galleon players can try to lunge on an enemies ship over and over again, without getting any penalty?! Seriously this will unbalance the game even more.
    Also what about the extremely random respawn back to ship thing, or fixing respawning players after their ship got sunk???? People have been complaining since closed beta, and its still not fixed

  • 0

    @hypnotiksykotik Actually, I attack forts regularly and get attacked over and over and over by scrubs who just respawn and come right back. Just earlier, we sunk 3 galleons about 6 times each but they kept coming back. Yes, it's annoying and they should be spawned farther away. But should they be unable to attack me at all? No.

    Re: Spawn camping. At one point, one of the galleon's crew's got onboard our sloop and killed us both. They tried to "spawn camp". We waited, spawned together, and made a concerted effort to push them off our ship which was successful. Even if it wasn't, we get another try because they're "camping" after all. The solution is to get better, or even scuttle your ship.

    There are no real solutions because these aren't the real problems. The problems lie with the players and not the mechanics. You all seem to be either maniacs or cowards.

  • 1

    Not sure why this thread still exists or why the forum staff have neglected to update the Release notes section, but the Death Tax idea has been removed. As in not happening.

    The devs tweet is here: https://twitter.com/JoeNeate1/status/978306578020556800?s=19

    And it is sticked in the SoT sub-reddit.

Locked