[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

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    @khaleesibot thinking about the obvious "what if I have 0 gold?!" I think the Death Cost should be considered as a "bribe" more than a toll to escape the Ferry of the Damned.

    Meaning, escaping sooner would be possible but at a cost, so if unwilling (or unable) to pay, one would simply need to wait the usual (maybe increased) timeout to escape the Ferry of the Damned.

    That's part 1 :)

    Part 2: The cost.

    If "Death Cost" is meant to be payed in gold, then different prices for PVE death vs PVP death should apply.

    "stupid" deaths should cost more, so player learn some sense into their thick skulls.
    In this order (more expensive "bribes" on top):

    • Fall Damage (you're not Super-Pirate-Man!)
    • Drowning (you're not Aqua-Pirate-Man... btw, where's our Water-breathing potions?!)
    • by (Skell) Cannonball (didn't you see it coming? Literally! It's a frickin' big ball, c'mon!)
    • by Shark (hey, weird things happen at sea)
    • by Skell (tough world out there)
    • by Lightening (this one I think we should be payed a reward instead! xD)

    (not sure if I forgot any other PVE deaths)
    EDIT: Oh, of course, FORTS (duh)!!! Thanks @AssassinsKing98 for reminding me!
    I guess death at Skull Forts would be the "PVE" exception and pushed into the "PVP" style of "death cost", briefly mentioned below.

    Then, the PVP deaths, to me, those would cost less than the ones above, since those are (usually!) less... uh... "stupid", at least compared with the ones above, IMHO :P

    Part 2 B: Not paid in gold but as a ghost quest

    Now, if "Death Cost" is to be paid by running some errands or doing chores for the death ship Captain, then this would open another level of gameplay, where our ghost would be sent out to do some quests in the world of the living but still as a ghost, with the disadvantage of not being able to do any PvP or gain any gold or rewards while sailing a ghost ship to retrieve some obscure treat or object that the Ferry of the Damned Captain would love to get, from the living.

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    Rare needs to take the time and read all these complaints/suggestions for "death cost" cause of a lot of the community has great alternative suggestions.

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    @khaleesibot

    Fine with me, as long as they make fixes to the respawns maybe you are not able to respawn in the middle of boat battles

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    I don't like this idea for the sole reason of forts' existence. If you manage not to die more than 5 times while trying to take over a fort, even in a crew but especially alone, you are truly deserving of the legend title. However, if you're not, forts would seem entirely unappealing, especially when soloing them. I personally can't say I like the idea. However, I do like @Koshdukai 's suggestion about new quests instead of paying gold. That I could stand behind.

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    @khaleesibot this is one of the worst things that could possibly happen in this game just now. Nobody is actually getting money in the first place for them to have money taken away. The money and reputation issues need to be 100% sorted before anything like this is implemented.

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    @deadtree-alive every tried taking a fort it’s a little hard ppl die a lot

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    If you implement this and at some point start selling cash packs in the MTX store the comparisons to GTA Online will kill this game very quickly. That Shark card store disguised as a game gets away with it because people had invested substantial time in it before it gradually and sneakily turned into a wanton cash-grab. With all of the ill feeling there already is about this (admittedly wonderful) game, implementing a way for player's progression to slide backwards is a very, very bad idea. Stick with the design mantra of "is this fun?" as it seems you have been doing so far. It's not fun to lose what you already have, you already potentially lose enough if you are carrying goods/chests/skulls.

    You've set this game up as a casual, lighthearted PVP/PVE experience, it's not a hardcore survival sim or a rougelike and to change it in this manner after release would be disingenuous and disrespectful to everyone who purchased it to enjoy it rather than be stressed out by it.

    There are many good suggestions beyond a gold cost for death. Add a bounty board/black spot for crews getting lots of player kills, extend the time on the ferry the more a player dies, move ship spawns further away from the site of death each time, signal a griefing ship on everyone's maps or black crows that fly over their ship and add gold for taking them down.

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    I'll just link to my thoughts in the announcement thread >.>
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/40329/release-notes-discussion-launch-1-0/76

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    I definitely share the concerns of others, that we're going to punish pve players even harder. We definitely need a more clear proposal. This is so vague it could mean anything and have all sorts of different implications. Are PVP deaths even considered avoidable? If another crew shoots first, and I kill them all are those deaths considered avoidable?

    Also we still have bugs like the same weapon type glitch which prevents you from even using both weapon slots that to my knowledge is only fixable by death. I've drowned myself so many times to fix this bug when the game loads me in with 2 random weapons that happen to be the same type, that I've lost count.

    What is the intention here? Is it to try and create some real threat from krakens and skeleton forts when I'm sailing to them with no treasure? If so, fine, but then we need a forgiveness window of X seconds after being damaged by another players to mitigate PVE last hits while engaged in PVP.

    Is the intention to prevent the same ship sailing up on you over and over and over again while you fight them off and your supplies dwindle away each time they sink? I think there are better solutions if this is an attempt at a PVP fix- move their respawned ship farther away? send them to a different server (i know this one is taxing)?

    Rare, we REALLY need you to elaborate on how precisely this will be implemented and what you're hoping to accomplish with the change. Whether or not I hate the idea is entirely dependent on the fine print.

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    This post is deleted!
  • 4

    @silver2shine 12/10 would upvote again

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    Boo! This is a completely unnecessary feature. There is nothing fun about playing a game that makes you pay to redrawn. If this gets in the game I'm out.

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    Hello everyone,

    I'm really glad to see that most are against the Death Cost update.
    If implemented despite the community's wishes, please make it a very soft penalty.

    Thanks,

  • 2

    @prime-of-war said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadtree-alive every tried taking a fort it’s a little hard ppl die a lot

    Its actually not that bad with 3 or 4 people. 2 people is admittedly rough, and we're not looking to punish small groups of players here right?

  • 5

    I dont understand why there would be a price / cost for when you die and board the death ship.

    In my OPINION thats not nessasary.
    I mean you died. So most likely you didnt finish bringing the chest back, or finish the merchant quest, or win a fort... So instead of gaining gold, you lose some?

    Also how many times do people get killed for like no reason or during no active quests/job/adventures....

    Thats bassically saying, if you suck at this game, get stalked, spammed or get hacked and killed then you will never be able to buy anything. Have fun.

    Watch how many people ask for game refunds or dont buy it cause it just wasted $60 of their real life money. Oh wait Microsoft already got paid, and most game stores give you pennies for games once they are opened.

    I guess all the online buys will then bombard the call centers L***O

    In My OPINION this will be more of a downfall to this game.

  • 0

    Not sure why all the talk about the concerns of PvE'ers in an inherently PvP game. I mean if they had separate servers for PvE and PvP then sure.

    Anyone who bought this game in the hope they could cruise around solo or with friends and not deal with other players is a fool. So Balance the penalties around PvP situations.

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    @knifelife I agree!

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    @assassinsking98 forts are a gradual challenge, that’s the problem. I die 10 times a fort. This works horrible with forts. Shouldn’t be implemented.

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    I disagree with this. I would only agree if you incorporate a bank/vault where I can store my money, so it can be safe. Then I can withdraw it when I want to purchase something. Also incorporate features where a player can benefit in bringing money with them on explorations. A feature such as hiring npc pirates on islands that aren't on outposts to protect the boat. A feature to give a crew money to prevent them from killing you, and possible having them work together in big missions. I've also talked about this on my forum.

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    @dfxyxeno You mean add something additionally on top of the death penalty to totally nullify it in the first place?...

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    As many have said, I think this could be a good idea provided it is implemented correctly. I absolutely think avoidable PvE deaths could be charged (granted the fee should never be more than can be earned from a chest), this would exclude deaths to event related enemies (OoS bosses/Skeleton Forts). PvP deaths should not have a cost, especially with the spawn camping problems we've seen. Losing your ship should have a cost that would have some implications in PvP and discourage scuttling a ship simply to avoid combat/resupply. IF the spawn camping problems are addressed, a PvP fee could be implemented. But until then it should be restricted to the more easily avoidable deaths.

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    @sickleh exactly...

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    That is a very bad idea! Only way it would be better is if you pay him to let you out faster not too simply let you out to begin with...

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    @counthollow Ooooo. That actually makes loads of sense to me. Per my earlier comment, this could be a good way to handle PvP deaths after spawn camping/griefing has been fixed. If you have valuables on your ship you're naturally going to pay to get out fast so you can keep up the fight. If you have nothing you can just dance around and wait it out.

  • 5

    Honesty we need inventive to stay alive and DO stuff, before being punished for dying.

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    It’s been mentioned so many times about outpost camping and ship camping that I feel we aren’t being listened to. I’ve been part of SOT for the guts of 10 months and I largely play solo, I don’t whine and complain about getting beat by bigger crews or boats but I gotta draw the line here. I’ve been griefed so many times and camped on so much I couldn’t count and now you want to punish me for getting tortured, please think this through before you make this a game for campers and griefers to be rewarded for their trolling

  • 2

    Death (in this game) should require a complete fresh start. That means starting anew far from where you died to prevent instant revenge attacks on your attackers. This alone would balance out rather than losing gold.

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    @khaleesibot Am I the only one to see that as a funny feature ?
    I think it's great and hoping a lot of funny quote from that ghost captain.
    I see that as a good way to laugh about our fails.
    Maybe even try to die in funny ways to see what you have prepared from us.
    Can't wait, hit me with your Monthy Python's humor fellas !

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    Hey guys.
    If you are spawnkill, there is a feature to sink your boat, and get a new one further away. Sink it while you're dead. It's in menu.

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    I think this is a terrible idea, and entirely contrary to the spirit of the game I thought I was signing up for.

    It would kill the experimentation (why risk being killed by a gunpowder barrel or shark?),
    it would kill the relaxed vibe (if I'm slowly saving up for a Sovereign Sail, or something, then every death is going to feel like it's driving my target further and further away and I'm likely to quit the game mid-battle/Kraken/Shark attack to find a new server, rather than it being a situation I can have fun and engage with until my valiant defeat),
    it would kill the community (no downtime in which you can safely interact with other players without risking a penalty for doing so, no grog in the tavern together, no shanties on each other's boats).

    I haven't looked through the whole thread yet, but there are at least half a dozen other ways this makes an a**e of everything the game has set itself out to be. If I want to have a fully stressful experience with no downtime, then there are games I can play that reward that much better than SoT. SoT was going to be something I could play in a much more relaxed way, and if this change is made I simply wouldn't play at all and would be requesting a refund.

    Because, yes, I've already been suckered for my £50 because I was completely sold on the concept and spirit of the game, even though I understood that the content wasn't as deep as some were expecting, the atmosphere sold me.
    I have friends who are trying the game out on gamepass, and if this is implemented I'll be encouraging them to follow my lead and not purchase the game or continue with their gamepass subscription. Turning the game into GTA: High Seas will find you plenty of fans, but few of them that supported the game up to this point.

  • 8

    Thanks for all the passionate responses on this, we appreciate you keeping us on our toes and helping ensure Sea Of Thieves stays a warm and inviting place to play!

    Please note, we never intended to charge players for PvP related deaths, as we understand the negative impact this would have on player experience.

    We understand that this addition to the release notes was a little confusing, and in the future we will ensure that any future updates we discuss give you a better understanding of how and why we're implementing it. Sea of Thieves is constantly evolving, and any feature we will test, monitor data and listen to your feedback to ensure we're making the right decisions.

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    @khaleesibot Love you, even more.😘

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    @khaleesibot said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Please note, we never intended to charge players for PvP related deaths, as we understand the negative impact this would have on player experience.

    We understand that this addition to the release notes was a little confusing, and in the future we will ensure that any future updates we discuss give you a better understanding of how and why we're implementing it. Sea of Thieves is constantly evolving, and any feature we will test, monitor data and listen to your feedback to ensure we're making the right decisions.

    Still immense dislike. It takes away from numerous points both I and many other people posted in the thread. Skeleton Forts become even harder and costly for smaller crews. The game punishes players for trying new things (jumping off a cliff, dancing with a snake, sailing into a storm, etc.). The game is supposed to be lighthearted and fun. How can we experience a fantasy pirate life if we're being taxed and losing progress for doing just that?

    Also how can you distinguish PVP and PVE? I have a powder keg. I jump onto an enemy ship and blow myself up. PVE? Penalized. PVP? Epic.
    Also killing players with powder kegs, PVP? PVE? What if one hits your ship as compared to being shot by another player? I feel like this could just cause more griefing

  • 4

    @khaleesibot if the intent was to help lesser experienced players from being ganked because other players would consider whether it was worth it or not, it would do the oposite now galleons will always just chase sloops of that happens because its an easy kill and less risk for the bigger crew, it would cause more "griefing" (a very loose term in this game) than anything

    if you want to help the more pve orientated players this is not the way

  • 1

    Here's my idea love it or hate it doesn't bother me at all. taxing people for dying is fine if done correctly. I think you should have to enable PVP to attack a player say (raise a flag) to show the world your hostile. now do not change it to there are safe zone make it to anyone can be attacked at anytime no where is safe. However you just need to raise your flag to actually attack someone if your flag is down you do no damage to other player this give the PVE people some sort of assurance. The PVP would like it because it would actually strike fear in to people because they would see the flag and get scared. again no safe zones no where to hide just a change to where the flagged party would lose gold if they died. The unflagged party would just lose what ever loot they have. also you can raise your flag at any time but you know the risk. I think it would give the game more of a reputation then just the cosmetics.

    Again just my thoughts love it or hate makes no difference I'm still going to sink people because I'm still a pirate after all.

    EDIT: I also think this would promote a little more CO-OP experience I would really like to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

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