[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

  • 2

    Reverse the roll and make it if you kill a person it takes your gold. Also add bounty on the killers head.

  • 7

    so yesterday I sword charged into a tree/plant and became stuck, lucky me that skeleton was still alive to kill me .. 500 gold plz!

    apart from that, isn't losing all your stuff enough payment?

  • 1

    @toastywrath I can't disagree with that!

  • 0

    @sickleh my thought was people intentionally missing in order to bait out attacks. Of course it’s purely speculation I am not attempting to speak for other people’s actions just what I assume would happen based of my experience in the game.

  • 6

    @tonyferelli said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @keepitlowkee said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Quoted from RaKKe83 from another thread which I agree on his suggestion if a death penalty was implemented

    "Our suggestion in terms of the player death cost, would be do double the respawn time, and introduce some kind of bribary of the captain of the ferry to half that back down to what it currently is. (I also saw someone mention above doing tasks onboard the ship, this is also a great idea). This would provide a pretty happy medium, and the cost remains a choice."

    This actually would make a ton of sense if it was implemented in this fashion. I wouldn't mind it at all.

    That would be funny double your time to re spawn bribe your timer shorter or clean the toilets of the dammed to half your time would fit the games theme and add choice to weather you loose money or not.

  • 6

    We really do need more details on 'how avoidable each death is' means. I thought the vision of the game was fun and a bit silly. This is such a bad idea and am curious what it is meant to achieve, doesn't seem to be the respawn issue or earning too much too quickly.

    I can't say it'll improve pvp issues but it's bad for pve and all the fun players can come up with. If I want to re-enact an Assassins Creed dive off the top of Galleons Grave drunk that's in the spirit of the game. If I fire myself out of a cannon onto an island, mis-aim and get a face full of rock and die, I shall have a laugh about it. I like exploring the world below, so will drown and get eaten by sharks a lot.
    Anything creative that a player or crew can come with will be at a cost and will inhibit exploration and experimentation. Even if you have to pay 1g that fun would leave a bad taste. Firing yourself off a cannon is silly but is part of that spirit otherwise might as well remove that ability. Having a cost on environmental death I don't feel fits with that vision and spirit.

  • 2

    @j3r8z said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Reverse the roll and make it if you kill a person it takes your gold. Also add bounty on the killers head.

    Like the bounty idea seeing as that I’m a rather aggressive player. However taking gold for killing people would remove any reason to partake in the first place. So I’d have to say I disagree.

  • 0

    @pilks4k Perfect. This expands on the respawn timer increase based off of death perfectly. I would love to see that idea considered and played with a bit.

  • 5

    Thankyou for the megathread @khaleesibot :D

    I think dying to pvp would be a terrible thing based on the fact its going to create the scenario of do I just give up my gold or do I potentially waste what Ive saved to protect said gold...especially whilst spawn camping can still exist on ships. Its forcing people to quit out to save money.

    Im personally not opposed to paying for stuff like running a gunpowder into a crowd of skellies suicide style on forts for example but that all depends on the cost. As I never want to be at point where I want to do something stupid for the entertainment value but cant because im worried about some gold. This I think is a bigger issue in the early game vs having played for some time however.

    Personally id rather the cost be for the ship, the crew all pay an equal share because it would make people value their ships more. Which interestingly I know this was an unfavoured idea back in the tests, however thats far better than paying for each death...so im confused on why ship cost is bad but a death one isnt??

    However, what happened to working on the ferry of the damned? That idea has been thrown about before, why not try both? Can pay and leave quickly or youll have to hang around and do a job for the captain first like adjust sails, that would also make the ferry entertaining as itll be a ghost crew!

  • 0

    I like it.
    But i want to see the ghost taking my money...
    ANIMATIONS PLZ... im playing this game for the RP!

  • 4

    @j3r8z Punish people for doing PvP in a PvP game?

  • 0

    Yarr thar must be a toll fer vistin the Ferry, Do ye not Fear Death?

  • 0

    @sickleh technically i think there should not be one. but it would help control over killing one person. but hey, its a pirate game, you pvp...you lose gold. it might be fun. lol

  • 0

    @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @khaleesibot I believe work needs to be done on the ship spawn camping before this gets implemented or i can see it getting abused and alot of people getting frustrated.

    I'm also in a split mind, before the game launched i was up for this. But now its out im not so sure, people die alot and especially when you are doing order of souls quests and 5 skellies with blunderbusses spawn ect.

    Normally im up for being careful and having a punishment for death, bt i just dont think this is the game for it. I like doing crazy jump or insane plans and wouldn't not want to do them for fear of having my gold slowly trickling away.

    But the defining factor for me will have to be when we get actual prices ect.. Or have a sink tax instead, that means you can go nuts with your life but need to protect your ship, best of both worlds.

    When being killed in PvP, it would be best to scuttle your ship immediatly when they are spawn killing. Yeah you miss your loot, but you'd probably have lost it anyway.

    A PvP death shouldn't have much of a tax, death by environment either. But death by skelly, drowning, snake, those can be punished a bit harder imo. We don't know the rate yet, I think that is the most important.

  • 1

    Giving reason to team kill with boom barrels?

  • 0

    @m0ustacho Yeah i know about the ship scuttle, however that isnt originally what the scuttle option was for, and due to you only being able to do it once per session its not really a viable solution.

  • 1

    @aprovoked-mango sagte in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Thankyou for the megathread @khaleesibot :D

    I think dying to pvp would be a terrible thing based on the fact its going to create the scenario of do I just give up my gold or do I potentially waste what Ive saved to protect said gold...especially whilst spawn camping can still exist on ships. Its forcing people to quit out to save money.

    Im personally not opposed to paying for stuff like running a gunpowder into a crowd of skellies suicide style on forts for example but that all depends on the cost. As I never want to be at point where I want to do something stupid for the entertainment value but cant because im worried about some gold. This I think is a bigger issue in the early game vs having played for some time however.

    Personally id rather the cost be for the ship, the crew all pay an equal share because it would make people value their ships more. Which interestingly I know this was an unfavoured idea back in the tests, however thats far better than paying for each death...so im confused on why ship cost is bad but a death one isnt??

    However, what happened to working on the ferry of the damned? That idea has been thrown about before, why not try both? Can pay and leave quickly or youll have to hang around and do a job for the captain first like adjust sails, that would also make the ferry entertaining as itll be a ghost crew!

    yes yes yes :D

  • 4

    Oh, also remove Cannonballs/Bananas/Planks that people have on hand. Make them drop them on death, maybe, so others can pick it all up.

    That way people can't just hold onto 10/5/5 and respawn with a fresh batch of stuff ready to use on their ships and whatnot. Freshly respawned body = no more supplies on hand, and the same should go for freshly respawned ships.

  • 2

    @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @m0ustacho Yeah i know about the ship scuttle, however that isnt originally what the scuttle option was for, and due to you only being able to do it once per session its not really a viable solution.

    Oh the once per session I didn't know. Then this should be somewhat reverted to a couple of times per session. It is currently the only option to get out of the ganking and spawn killing in my knowledge.

  • 6

    @khaleesibot Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Thats my thoughts on taxes.

  • 1

    @sorenthaz said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Oh, also remove Cannonballs/Bananas/Planks that people have on hand. Make them drop them on death, maybe, so others can pick it all up.

    That way people can't just hold onto 10/5/5 and respawn with a fresh batch of stuff ready to use on their ships and whatnot. Freshly respawned body = no more supplies on hand, and the same should go for freshly respawned ships.

    So much yes.

  • 4

    The respawn distance of ships should also be double or triple. It almost seems like the ship respawns 0.5 a mile away..

  • 5

    No. The lack of consequence for death is actually in part what makes this a great PvP game.

    If you increase the consequences you merely strengthen the arguments for 'safe-zones' tbh.

    It would be a short-sighted design decision and run contrary to your stated design intent to create a positive gaming environment/community.

    Raising the stakes would only raise the salt at the expense of a non-toxic environment.

    PvP games can be a positive experience but having long-term impact/consequences for death truly detracts from that.

    Please do reward cooperation but don't punish failure beyond loss of current progress (a reversion to checkpoint in essence; the last reward you clocked).

    With little consequence for death, people will be happier to learn how to PvP/crew a ship efficiently & effectively.

  • 1

    @varples That's not how people work.

    With little consequence for dying it will mean more people will try to grief even if they suck at it.

  • 3

    @khaleesibot This honestly feels like a bit of a money grab. We know micro transactions are coming. Less gold is more sales assuming the same items can be purchased with cash.

    That being said any sort of permanent punishment that can be caused and abused by other players is a really bad idea. I don't look forward to someone figuring out how to grief me into poverty.

    Risk / reward is a better approach. Let the player choose wether or not to take on risk of permanent loss. Death cost is not choice.

    Now if you could pay the ferryman for a faster respawn that might be okay.

    EDIT: looks like they clarified in the patch notes that pvp related deaths won't get the death tax. This addresses my concerns.

  • 4

    So I’m not going to say that this should never happen. But I will say that this should not happen right now.

    At this time I dont Think the timing of this is good with all the angry people right now. It will just poke the bear some more.

    I’m also not realy sure what it will accomplish. For a first content patch I was hoping for something more positive not negative.

  • 4

    This sounds like a terrible idea, There is a huge number of people who camp other people's ships and spawn kill them. This would make people extraordinarily frustrated on top of them being punished for being griefed. This would require an overhaul of core mechanics before this should even be discussed. Maybe Rare should implement a bounty system for enemy players that are out pirating which could maybe allow players to "Hunt" pirates that are on "killstreaks." With prices of the bounty depending on how many pirates have been killed along with how many ships they have sank. This would allow another method for players to make money. A way this could be done would be to implement a method to capture the pirates (or kill them) for a reward.

  • 3

    @sickleh
    I get what your trying to say but griefers won’t care if they lose money. As of right now once you buy everything you want what’s the point of caring about gold anyways!

  • 1

    @knifelife I agree with a lot these points man. Im not against the "death toll" as it may make everyone think twice about attacking, though true trolls don't care. Ship spawn/respawn when being camped can be an issue. Maybe some sort of incentive to not kill the same player over again in 30mins?An aggressive player tag or a bounty on their ship?
    Also the Order of Lost Sous (my absolute fave by far!) missions are combat orientated. Maybe these should give a higher output due to the risk of dying if there is a death toll.

  • 2

    @sickleh said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @varples That's not how people work.

    With little consequence for dying it will mean more people will try to grief even if they suck at it.

    Hmm but that means the amount of grief experienced is greater...

    .. do you think there would be less PvP if there was a rebuy cost/penalty?

    I don't.

    I think we want players happy to PvP & enjoying it even if they are losing.

    I can, however, see both sides of the argument.. but if people suck at griefing, they will die.. right?

  • 4

  • 3

    Yah I have to agree that this is not the best of ideas. I am not sure why you would need to do something like this it cost so much to upgrade everything that you don't need to find more ways of bleeding us. At most I could see like in the old days 2 coins for the boatman when I die.

  • 3

    @Rare-Employee
    Can you explain what the point of this added feature is or what the goal is of the death toll?”

    My only thought is this is to try to prevent people from defending the skeleton forts with a term I will call reverse griefing. Aka it doesn’t matter if I die, I’m just sailing at them and eventually their ship will run out of resources or they will get tired of dealing with us. We had a ship battle for 2 hours last night. They sunk us once because we were at the fort and didn’t have enough people on our ship. We sailed back and sunk them. They care back and we sunk them again, and then again. It took awhile to sink them because both teams were fairly skilled. After two hours we gave up on the assault and hopped servers ourselves to look for another fort.
    In addition there is currently a glitch with weapons where if you own multiple skins it will randomly select what weapons you spawn with. If you spawn with two cutlasses or accidentally try to equip a second one you will only be able to use one weapon. Even when you switch weapons both of them will change to the same weapon. If it’s a gun you only have five shots and hitting 1 and 2 to swap weapons doesn’t do anything. Currently the only way to fix this is to equip 2 different weapons after the bug occurs and then kill yourself. When you respawn it’s fixed.

    Will this penalty help avoid this tactic? Yeah, sure maybe a little.
    Can the gold charges make your gold balance negative?
    Is this going to be for bother PVP and PVE deaths?
    What about the painful problem if we are out of cannonballs so I board a ship kill the players crash it and then have to defend off waves of players to prevent them from repairing the ship while I wait for it to sink? This is painful for both sides. Is the goal to make them scuttle rather than respawning over and over as I wait for the ship to sink painfully slowly?

    I think the better solution is just to bounce players to a new server after they have had their boat sunken twice. Yes I realize this puts more of a toll on the servers since you’re moving players around. Maybe the sink rate is so high that this is not an option? If this is an option then it gives players one chance for revenge. After that if you die again you’re shipped to a new server so you can’t sail back every 2min. Basically if they sink a second time spawn them on a new server after they die. Just reload them all like what happens when you get stuck. The screen goes white and p**f you’re back at your ship.

    You can even set this so that it’s a limit like you sink twice within 40min you’re bounced.

    I’m not sure what other things you intend on “fixing” with this change. It makes griefing more painful for the more PVE oriented players if there is a charge for PVP death, and if there isn’t one I don’t see what you’re trying to accomplish.

  • 4

    I hope Rare designers take some time to read all this and rollback on the death cost idea.

    This will only help griefers of all kind and reduce the fun overall and when you add the bugs on top of that this will only lead to frustration. Increased respawn timer can be a great solution.

    I also like the idea suggested that the ship doesn't spawn automatically and that respawning the ship is a collective choice (like scuttling it) that moves the whole crew to another server (therefore preventing griefing).

  • 4

    Its a no from me

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