[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

  • @deadactionjones been there and done that with games with penalties. It's much easier to manage and deal with when you know what you lose. Right now nobody even knows the amounts everyone's jumping to conclusions about what could be 50 gold at max

  • not a good idea sense PvP is already not as risky as PvE. with this change, it would apply more risk for PvE than PvP, further motivating players to attack one another than working together to survive waves of skeletons. this is not to say that it should apply to both pvp and pve, i just think it should not be added at all.

    i would like it if we focused on other things besides gold. such as spawn time or the amount of supply you get upon re-spawning, or the the location of where you have spawned (Currently, you spawn within the region you have died.).

  • I am fine with this. But what will happen to a pirate when he has no gold b/c he is on his 1st quest and dies. Also what is to stop pirates from just logging out and rejoining the game so they don't lose anything or just start a new game b/c they had no loot to lose to avoid this tax.

  • Let me be upfront, and say, I do not want to see a death tax implemented. I don’t see any good reason for it, and it has the potential to make toxic players happier with their unwarranted kills.

    That said, if there must be additional cost for dying, how about extra time on the ferry? There’s even a possible compromise position: if you currently spend 30 seconds on the ferry waiting for the door to open and it’s increased to one minute before the door opens, what if you could pay a fee and get out after the original 30 seconds or pay nothing and wait out the full minute?

  • So now not only will I play for 4 hours and only get one turn in because of griefers, but now I'll not even net a profit if I die too often in an OoS voyage? Rare, I feel like you know what to do to fix this game, and are doing the opposite for some reason.

  • @capn-light9g I can see where paying money to spawn faster could be something interesting to add to the economy. I like that. I just don't see what problem a death cost solves in PVE. The disincentive to throwing yourself at a skeleton fort over and over is that it gives other crews more time to disrupt you.

  • @crash4654 said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Admittedly skeleton forts are rather rough at the moment. It took 4 shots from the rifle to kill one skeleton. That's a little much in my opinion, especially when they have ridiculous accuracy with every gun they use, including the cannons. But as it stands right now you don't have to employ any strategy for any pve stuff. Just run at it til it dies eventually.

    You could say this for PvP as well though. Just start with an empty ship over and over and keep ramming people until you win. Except they get no (additional) penalties in this plan. I am in favor of punishing losing your ship whether it's PvP or PvE though.

    Ship re-spawns should be pushed farther away to avoid spam attacking another crew. If there are living crew mates on shore they can either wait for their crew to come get them if they're protecting treasure, or just use the mermaid. If they choose the mermaid rather than wait, once the whole crew is far enough away the game could even seamlessly change the instance and that would keep everyone from seeing the same crews over and over.

    Also if you lose the voyage with the ship this would mean that the team could just plop down a new voyage and head somewhere completely different anyways.

    If you're the aggressor you cant spam attack. If your the victim, suck it up, you lost your loot. Try again.

    Everytime your ship goes down with treasure on it or you get robbed you're losing money. Keep the reserves where they're at.

    Also there would be no point in a bank. It would just add another tedious step of things to do on the outpost.

    Lastly, people say there is no economy... Without PvE producers there is no gold circulation. Don't punish the producers.

    Edit: PS.
    Also there is an indirect penalty for dying multiple times in a row. Whether your on a regular island or on a fort you are leaving your ship either sitting there or undermanned and a prime target for attack. The less efficiently you clean house the more likely you are to lose all the chests you've loaded up on your ship anyways.

  • Well right now everytime I log in my weapons are bugged out. I have to let skeletons kill me multiple times before I respawn with the ability to change or equip weapons. Just go ahead and implement a weapons tax then. How about 1000 gold everytime I left click? This is getting rediculous.

    also, gamma slider pls. I can't see.

  • @khaleesibot What about death by glitches? I've been dropped off more than one cliff because my character whilst running around exploring has randomly jumped 10 foot within a 360° radius. Who pays for that? This is just a way to sell in game currency when it arrives. This serves no other purpose as far as I can see.

  • I am also against a death tax at this point. I feel that getting a spawn point farther away from the combat to dissuade people to have comeback attacks is a great death penalty - you are much less likely to get your treasure back, or to take that keep, or to be able to finish off the other team before they move on. I'd suggest focusing on that, rather than a death tax. If there are PvE things that are too easy because of repeated deaths, making the ferry ride take longer the more times you die in a period of time could be used (perhaps with the pay to get out earlier that was mentioned before) to mitigate those circumstances.

  • @khaleesibot I think death gold costs are a bad thing in general, for PvP or other reasons. This game is quite fun even when you are just dicking around, and if you add death costs in gold it will just make people "tryhard" a lot more, and i feel like that is a bad thing for this type of game.

    Additionally, I feel like gold, as a resource, should be final. I think it's very important that people can hold on to their gold after they have worked hard to get it.

    Back on track about death costs though, i am fine with them if the cost is not in GOLD. If for example you fall of a cliff, or die to snake you might get an extended death timer, or something similar.

  • When PvE Deaths will cost gold the should lower the 90% Aimbot from those Skells......

  • Certainly yes, as an additional thing, there should be a cost for having your ship sink. Whole crew would then have to pay for that one. And as it's pretty much impossible to be "spawn sunk" there is no problem in charging for the ships sunk in pvp!

    Another think I'd like to add however... If you make PVE deaths cost us some gold, there is something you need to make sure about. Either that we will be getting more value of the PVE voyages (more gold for the skeleton forts and the skeleton skull hunts), or that the other voyages that are more based about just fetching chests and animals in cages are more npc dangerous. And also you have to remember that if you make it all really hard for us, we may just go and instead of voyages do some treasure hunting on the beaches and in sunk wrecks.
    I'd say the best way would be that in any time there is a chest or another valuable item somewhere, the higher the chance of more and stronger enemies spawning. Be it skeletons, sharks or anything that can come in the future. Obviously only until it gets picked up once.

  • Death cost would just be another reason not to play this game. I find it's cutlreent value at 15$ add death costs and maybe I'll pay 10$ is that cost enough for death costs?

  • Buttload of skeletons
    From Reddit user DrDubology

    PvE Death Tax... Good luck to the Order of Souls!

  • @crash4654 said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadactionjones the concept of loss and actual penalty is the subject, not the games themselves. I could also bring up borderlands, dark souls, Mario, monster hunter, 7 days to die, cuphead, I could go on. The point is that there's some sort of penalty in all of them for death, some worse than others. That penalty is your incentive to not die. You don't want bad things to happen to you, so you get better to avoid death and keep your progress.

    Yeah, and the current incentive is losing your loot and leaving your ship vulnerable to pvp. But pvpers don't have that same death loss, so dying doesn't matter. This only punishes pvers who obtain the treasure in the first place.

  • EVE Online applied a 'death cost', scaling by the number of skill points (or experience) a player had.

    There was also the cost of replacing your ship. But EVE needed these 'gold sinks' to counter in-game inflation because it has a player run trading market.

    SoT doesn't have a market so the only role for a Death cost is to influence behaviour. Bloodthirsty players will revel in it (they don't care for progression or customizable clothes), but they do care about tears: other player's. I know this because in EVE Online I was a 'bloodthirsty pirate'.

    Players who don't care much for PVP, or new players will simply find it frustrating.

  • I think-and as many others agree- that you guys should really focus on fixing the spawn-camping issue before introducing a fee for every time you die.

    Might I mention: how "small" of a fee is it? You say small, but if it's 500 gold a death like someone said it might be, then that will really put off casual players like me who aren't grinding the game for 6+ hours every single day.

    I know some players are already in the 70k-100k gold range, but I've only gotten to about 20k. I'm not playing the game every day, and chest payouts aren't that big.

    If dying will be the price of a chest, yikes...I dunno. I guess we'll have to see how much this fee is going to be. For those of us who like to solo things or duo skeleton forts (where you die quite a bit), I don't think those event payouts will be worth while. What will the game do if you can't afford the fee upon dying? Will your account go into negative? There's already plenty of glitches in the game, I fear if I have a balance of 0 gold and die, that my account will be permanently glitched in the negative because I won't be able to afford the fee.

    I just see this update as more glitches/bugs being added into the game and not something that the user base is asking for at this time. I'm trying not to be negative, but I don't like this one bit. Seems like something that will benefit campers more so than the rest of the user base.

    That being said, if the majority cries go unheard to not implement this. I will try to enjoy the death fee to the best of my ability. & HOPE it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100.

  • @jinxybinx actually they do, provided you fight back and win. Happened to us. We killed an aggressor and took all of their loot.

  • @retto-elbaroda said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Certainly yes, as an additional thing, there should be a cost for having your ship sink. Whole crew would then have to pay for that one. And as it's pretty much impossible to be "spawn sunk" there is no problem in charging for the ships sunk in pvp!

    Another think I'd like to add however... If you make PVE deaths cost us some gold, there is something you need to make sure about. Either that we will be getting more value of the PVE voyages (more gold for the skeleton forts and the skeleton skull hunts), or that the other voyages that are more based about just fetching chests and animals in cages are more npc dangerous. And also you have to remember that if you make it all really hard for us, we may just go and instead of voyages do some treasure hunting on the beaches and in sunk wrecks.
    I'd say the best way would be that in any time there is a chest or another valuable item somewhere, the higher the chance of more and stronger enemies spawning. Be it skeletons, sharks or anything that can come in the future. Obviously only until it gets picked up once.

    there is like a 30% chance that yoru ship will just sink on it's own or will fly into the sun when you first spawn into the game. who pays for that? you literally spawn in and see your ship go down and a mermaid appears. because that happens ALOT.

  • @lvl100-mage said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    I think-and as many others agree- that you guys should really focus on fixing the spawn-camping issue before introducing a fee for every time you die.

    Might I mention: how "small" of a fee is it? You say small, but if it's 500 gold a death like someone said it might be, then that will really put off casual players like me who aren't grinding the game for 6+ hours every single day.

    I know some players are already in the 70k-100k gold range, but I've only gotten to about 20k. I'm not playing the game every day, and chest payouts aren't that big.

    If dying will be the price of a chest, yikes...I dunno. I guess we'll have to see how much this fee is going to be. For those of us who like to solo things or duo skeleton forts (where you die quite a bit), I don't think those event payouts will be worth while. What will the game do if you can't afford the fee upon dying? Will your account go into negative? There's already plenty of glitches in the game, I fear if I have a balance of 0 gold and die, that my account will be permanently glitched in the negative because I won't be able to afford the fee.

    I just see this update as more glitches/bugs being added into the game and not something that the user base is asking for at this time. I'm trying not to be negative, but I don't like this one bit. Seems like something that will benefit campers more so than the rest of the user base.

    That being said, if the majority cries go unheard to not implement this. I will try to enjoy the death fee to the best of my ability. & HOPE it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100.

    @lvl100-mage said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    I think-and as many others agree- that you guys should really focus on fixing the spawn-camping issue before introducing a fee for every time you die.

    Might I mention: how "small" of a fee is it? You say small, but if it's 500 gold a death like someone said it might be, then that will really put off casual players like me who aren't grinding the game for 6+ hours every single day.

    I know some players are already in the 70k-100k gold range, but I've only gotten to about 20k. I'm not playing the game every day, and chest payouts aren't that big.

    If dying will be the price of a chest, yikes...I dunno. I guess we'll have to see how much this fee is going to be. For those of us who like to solo things or duo skeleton forts (where you die quite a bit), I don't think those event payouts will be worth while. What will the game do if you can't afford the fee upon dying? Will your account go into negative? There's already plenty of glitches in the game, I fear if I have a balance of 0 gold and die, that my account will be permanently glitched in the negative because I won't be able to afford the fee.

    I just see this update as more glitches/bugs being added into the game and not something that the user base is asking for at this time. I'm trying not to be negative, but I don't like this one bit. Seems like something that will benefit campers more so than the rest of the user base.

    That being said, if the majority cries go unheard to not implement this. I will try to enjoy the death fee to the best of my ability. & HOPE it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100.

    ive played everyday since the game released and have maybe 35k due to RL, a job, etc. where are you finding 500 gold chests left and right? because my level 20 gold hoarder missions just give me like 7 seafarer or castaway chests. (id much rather just have one rare chest than 7 garbage tier ones. I dont even think there is a rank multiplier on them so its just a bunch of pointless hauling.)

  • @DeadActionJones

    Where did I say I was finding 500 gold chests left and right? I said at the end of my post: "I hope it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100." Most chests I've found only sell from 100-300, I only find 500 gold chests by chance on maps that have 3+ X's on them or by exploring uncharted islands outside of my voyages.

  • @lvl100-mage said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @DeadActionJones

    Where did I say I was finding 500 gold chests left and right? I said at the end of my post: "I hope it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100." Most chests I've found only sell from 100-300, I only find 500 gold chests by chance on maps that have 3+ X's on them or by exploring uncharted islands outside of my voyages.

    i misread where you said deaths may cost up to 500g and that they may cost the price of a chest. those mashed up in my head and i went "wut?" lol my apologies.

  • @deadactionjones said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @lvl100-mage said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @DeadActionJones

    Where did I say I was finding 500 gold chests left and right? I said at the end of my post: "I hope it's not above 50 gold, since some chests only sell for 100." Most chests I've found only sell from 100-300, I only find 500 gold chests by chance on maps that have 3+ X's on them or by exploring uncharted islands outside of my voyages.

    i misread where you said deaths may cost up to 500g and that they may cost the price of a chest. those mashed up in my head and i went "wut?" lol my apologies.

    as far as chests go i feel that they should have value multipliers on them depending on your faction rank. because as i have reached level 20 instead of turning in 2 garbage chests i am now having to go and dig up 6-7 of them and they are all still only worth like 1-200 usually.

  • So it's confirmed that PvP deaths will not incur any penalty?

    In that case i'm all for this. Actions should have consequences, and tougher content should be for more experienced crews / those willing to accept the risk (Currently many players will throw themselves at Skele forts and just brute-force it. Do you really think after 30+ deaths that you deserve that loot, or should be in a position where you can claim victory for this PvE content?)

    Providing the death tax is for PvE only (As stated). Then I have no issue whatsoever, it will make people consider their actions a little more and overall become better players as a result. And that's a god thing.

  • No death cost please, gold is hard enough to get with everything being insanely overpriced. I know that PvP related deaths won't charge you anything but it kinda ruins the whole make your own fun thing. Instead make death costs a longer wait time on the ferry so ships sink quicker when someone dies instead of having to spawn camp them to make sure it sinks. But first change the ship respawn distance so fights are actually won not dragged out by a stubborn crew

  • @khaleesibot I've noticed a lot of people saying that the pvp will get insufferable from bullying/griefing/spawn camping or whatever you want to call it.. I have a suggestion if it does start turning in that direction.

    By all means keep the death toll but perhaps consider a system where the more ships you sink/people you kill the larger your toll is for a temporary amount if time. I'd imagine it as a judgement of your damned soul on the ferry and breaking the pirate code by mercilessly hunting people down would cost a pretty penny to return.

    I think it would greatly reduce the amount of people going around just to ruin others voyages, they might make a little coin but one slip up in X amount of time and it was all for naught.

  • @deadactionjones Well, that of course would have to be taken care of first. A fact that a bug would destroy a good feature isn't a reason not to implement the feature. It's just another reason to fix the bug...

  • @retto-elbaroda said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadactionjones Well, that of course would have to be taken care of first. A fact that a bug would destroy a good feature isn't a reason not to implement the feature. It's just another reason to fix the bug...

    death taxes are not "Good" features. new types of missions are good features, new weapon types are good features, parrots or monkeys or whatever would be a worthwhile time investment. but charging people part of what little gold they earn for playing the game is a terrible idea. it is always a terrible idea and will always be a terrible idea....

  • @deadactionjones If you have that opinion, it's all okay, but let me just say one thing. This feature wasn't in game at first and many people on this forum asked for it. Not just a few people in one post but literally tons of posts. Many people including me think that death should have some kind of penalty as it doesn't feel like it really matters all that much. Ever wondered why in Minecraft you drop all your stuff? Or why in Borderlands you pay for your respawn? That is because death is a moment when you mess up. Be it a fail during pvp or just a plain jump of a cliff too high up. No matter. Your decision was wrong and you should pay for it. Rare noticed that people knew this was a case and this post is an outcome of just that. Not everyone certainly shares my opinion. Not everyone shares yours either. But there is certainly many reasons that prove death cost should be a thing.

  • Definitely don't think this is a good idea. The sheer anarchy of the game and the ability to freely revive has been a huge draw for me since the alpha. Combat with the different skeleton types is already unbalanced with the five shot ammo limit so a death tax would make me avoid anything other then say maybe searching for wrecks. A reward for staying alive longer would be better even if it's only a 1% increase for cashing in loot. It's hard enough trying to save up for items that are only cosmetic and a tax on dying would just push players away from the game

  • Rather have longer respawn times. If you make it a minor gold cost then really no point in adding it in the first place just a waste of time. To much of a cost just in the case of skull forts makes me want to stay on my boat and let someone else do the work.

    Tho yes I could be more careful, take my time etc. That just adds more of a chance of someone showing up stealing my loot or having a endless ship battle because boats and players respawn so close to where they die. Idk I just find a death cost a waste of time

  • @khaleesibot honestly what am I grinding for other then skins. No really what?

  • I posted this elsewhere but more may see it here in this mega thread.

    I think all the greifing issues would be solved if there were safe zones and the player sunken ship spawns were better. There should be no penalties on death besides the wait to respawn and the loss of whatever loot and time you were working at, in my opinion. The way it is now is cool, we just need incentive not to shoot first on fellow pirates. Having a few zones that discourage this shoot first mentality will eventually fix this within the player base. People WILL get bad reps, and maybe that is a good system too... a pirate honor ranking system that adds more to your title and maybe viewable through the spyglass to identify the ships aggressiveness? Maybe have voyages for those with a certain negative titles. The have fame for being bullies and dishonored pirates. People will want to play that way and that's ok. Anyways, back to safe zones which seems to be easier to do.

    By safe zone I only mean that those outposts have accurate NPC cannons guarding it from aggressive ships and invincible NPC guards that will whoop yer scallywag butt in a hit or two, but you can outrun them. (This way you still have PvP but it is discouraged around these areas) A death tax could be imposed on those that dishonor the pirate code in these places. Overall though... the open seas should be no man's land as it is for reals. Be careful.... see spyglass suggestion above.

    I think Rare would see that people would gather at these guarded honorable pirate safe havens and be social. They would gather near the fires or in the tavern and decide what to voyage for next. I want more information on the voyages, more flavor text. Everything is so same-y and I just pick whatever because they are all "meh, whatever". I hope this all gets fleshed out more and I can be excited talking about a voyage I want to go on. Meanwhile I keep losing at cards and dice against my crew mates while getting drunk, dancing, fishing, and playing music. (Add more instruments please, to buy with my gold!)

    The social aspect needs to be played up in this game if I am to make my own stories. Just some more details and flavor text to guide those stories is needed. Also, add drop in and drop out multiplayer because the matchmaking is a pain and really kills the fun when dropping in and out of ships and waiting and waiting for schedules of friends to line up. :-/ I'm solo 90% of the time! Zzzzz...

    This WILL be the best pirate game when and if there are more systems built into it, I hope, like dice and card games you can wager your gold on with friends anywhere in the world by using your card/dice items and fishing you can do with a fishing pole to fill crates for fish. More trading options like NPC merchant and navy ships you can loot and then trade or sell loot would be great! Trade should be a huge focus and right now the merchant mission are so janky. But I digress...

    Biggest Point:

    Pirates had some honor between them and there is no reason to even be a pirate here. Everyone is out to make this the next PvP pro-League shooter contender or something with the shoot first mentality and that is for other games! A pirate would kill another pirate when wronged by pirate code and it's best when this get role-played with the emergent game play and stories that happen already in this great sandbox, but we need some big brother NPC enemy Navy presence around that justifies the need for "pirates" in the first place! Pirates were outcasts from society and formed their own and had a common enemy. The sandbox world is amazing and there is so much to explore above and below the seas, it just needs more content to be filled in with some small backstory as to why we are pirates out here. As of now it's Sea's of Anarchy and I hope eventually I really can be the pirate I want to be with a reason.

  • In order for me to be onboard with this idea, the amount of gold earned from everything should be buffed (or prices of items lowered).

    Otherwise this just artificially inflates the grind.

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