[Mega Thread] - Death Cost
@khaleesibot garbage idea devs wow... The list of how many ways this idea is trash would be far to long.
@khaleesibot Thank you for your concern. Here's my take on this topic.
In PVE, death is used as a mechanism to get back with full health/ammo without worrying of having bananas at all. I made several quests against skeleton captains like this. A death cost is needed to make the challenge bigger, and giving a purpose to seek for bananas, otherwise the healing mechanic is pretty useless here. However, probably not a death cost in gold. I'd say a cost in reputation, like some old MMOs did back then when they removed you a part of your experience when you died. It's a failure in progression, and should be "punished" as it.
During a voyage, it's the related company reputation that should be decreased. You are in expedition for this company and you are actually beaten... well, you can't really improve your reputation or your progression as a legend this way, do you? But outside voyages, there's no real reason to make the death cost anything, aside PVP I mean.
In PVP, your company reputation isn't engaged. What we want here is to make the death cost you something so you don't use the death mechanic as an easy solution to respawn and get back in fight fully operational.
My guess is that when you are on the ferry, you should have the choice to go back in the battle and pay a tax based on your reputation and gold, or respawn far from it for free. For example something like a base of 1% of your gold, up to 50% if you are rep 50 in every company: ((50+50+50)/3) * 1% — I insist to recall it's just an example.
A legend should obviously loose more of his gold than a newcomer if he dies, because he's supposed to be an experimented player. If you wan't to be the best and keep your gold, you have to act like the legend you are supposed to be. It's quite simple.
There should not be a cost to death.
But, there should be a penalty, and here is how.
Increase death respawn timer with 15 seconds on every death.
30 sec - 45 - sec - 60 sec - 75 sec... etc.
And reset back to 30 sec. every time the an item is sold at an outpost, or you loose your ship.
This way, death will become a serious matter for the player after just 3-4 deaths, because there is no quick return to battle. And battles where you just die and respawn with no end, will put a natural limit to that "exploit".
A skeleton fort battle is suddenly a more serious matter.
And having 2+ ship fighting endlessly will end faster, since someone will give up when they have to wait too long, or they will loose their ship because the ship will be unprotected for longer and longer periods.
B******t. How about you charge a fee to the people that kill other players. If they're stealing loot and getting the reward gold, they should be charged for killing. This might make others think twice about griefing others (namely solo players) over and over. Obviously increase the fee amount for every kill to the same player. Multiple player kills will stack as well.
This is B******t! Killing the same player multiple times? What do you do in a shipfight? Let him walk on your ship only because you have to fear loose of money because of killing him a second or third time?
But yes i think some mechanics should change but a tax for death would only punish small crews in this state of game and it is the wrong way.
The changes i would prefere:
- First of all i wouldn´t allow to spawn on a ship! Spawn only on an island. You jump off a ship and miss, pff your problem.
- Maid Teleport to the ship should cost 500 gold
- The spawntimer should be 5 times higher
- Ship spawn should be random and much further away from the point it sunk
@khaleesibot Hanging around waiting to respawn is pain enough. Gold cost as well? You must not want me to play this game!
Something I forgot to mention earlier.
Currently there are bugs (such as the one weapon only bug, or can't equip items bug) that can sometimes be fixed by your character dying.
Until these bugs are fixed (rather than the current suicide workaround), any death tax would be highly inappropriate; punishing players who are trying to workaround a bug.
Also, any bug that requires a reload/re-log highlights the failures of the grouping system that currently requires several hoops through which to jump.
First post, just want to add my voice to the pile of disagreement - I am in LOVE with the game, but I really don't see the benefit of this idea at all, and think it would be massively off-putting to everyone. It's already inconvenient enough to get killed, it doesn't need to be any worse. And it adds too much direct competition - the 'race' to be the richest, most famous pirate legend is perfect and positive, but if you add the ability for people to handicap their opponents it turns extremely negative...
@shinbabo Well my reasoning for charging the person that wins a fight would be only if they initiate the fight. This would go along with one of my previous mentioned ideas for a "passive" & "aggressive" flagged system that would be beneficial to both PvE and PvP in the same environment. This system would deter griefers. If you attack someone because you want to get easy money, and you win, then you should be charged for the attack. It shouldn't be an issue because you'll have the loot to sell.
Also, being charged over and over would only be if you initiate the attack multiple times. If you sink a ship & kill the players... you're charged for that. If they then retaliate, you wouldn't be charged for defending yourself, yet they wouldn't be charged for their attack because you'd be flagged as "aggressive."
This system would allow more PvE players to play with less anxiety of being griefed.
Also, respawns would have to change. If the ship isn't sunk & dead players want to respawn on it, they'll just be killed again, and the ship shouldn't have to be scuttled to get away from the griefer. So, a respawn at the nearest outpost on the ship would give the respawning player the option to seek out the killer and retaliate, or sail away without worry.
This is an appalling idea.
The current mechanics work perfectly. My crew and I must weigh up whether we push our luck with loot on board for another voyage or return to home port. If we're engaged and sunk, we know we might lose our loot.
Tactically and strategically, the interesting decisions are centred upon preventing your ship from being sunk and safely ferrying loot back to the vendors.
The other day I snuck up on a galleon of four players with my buddy in a sloop. They weren't looking and didn't see us and we blasted their galleon to smithereens. We could hear them panicking and two came to try and kill us. One of us died and two of them died while their ship sank.
A brutal fight over the loot they were trying to ferry to the vendors ensued. I believe they managed to get two skulls in. My buddy and I got in one of their skulls and two chests.
In my opinion, their poor strategy i.e. not having a player looking out for potential strategy cost them dearly. They lost out on cashing in two chests and a skull. They suffered a financial penalty.
Punishing players for death in any additional way is idiotic and would have been appallingly unfair for those players. If I were them, I would have been less inclined to continue playing.
Do not make this change.
@kinganzelak *for a potential enemy, not strategy (typo)
@roosterilluzion What if there is no loot? Then you have to pay for nothing. This will kill PvP because the moste we have hunted till today had no loot or only c**p.
I said something like that in a post days before. It´s a pirate game with a lot of PvP but you don´t get anything for this PvP. No title, no reward, no reputation, nothing.
A way i would much prefere:
- You kill/sink an enemy so you get wanted but get reputation, titles and their loot or no loot (that is your own risk)
- A identical flag, that shows you as a dangerous pirate
- A reward for those sinking/killing you who get flaged as well
- The more you kill/sink the higher is your hunt reward
- Edit: A information about the ships on the server you´re playing to get information if the sea is dangerous at this moment because a dangerous pirate crew is sailing there
But this has to come with the most important point i mentioned before.
- Maid teleport should cost some gold. It should be a help to get on your ship not a way to get your loot safe to the outpost
I wouldn´t have no problem to get marked as a dangerous pirate. But it´s a mess if we hunt an other ship and they jump off near the outpost with their loot and get with the maid instant to their ship again. This makes PvP sensless and any other configuration of PvP usless.
Edit: The next point: If you kill this much you get one time hunted by all on the servers together. This is a Legend! The kidplay we do now with treasures and this mess is no legendary in any form.
I believe this to be a bad idea. Silly and careless deaths are part of the fun of this game, jumping off cliffs, fighting sharks, firing myself up as high as i can go in the cannon all for the laugh. Everything in the environment is out to kill you. Spend too long in the water diving a wreck? Sharks. Caught in a storm? Two Lightning strikes and you're out, Skull forts would see people lose a good chunk of their cash too.
Death is something that happens a lot and for a lot of silly reasons adding a penalty to death is just going to make people bitter and salty about dying and that's just what griefers, trolls and salt miners want.
@deadactionjones It could be like 10 gold or so. I think itis more a symbolic value. In different Mythology this is a common feat.
Long time reader / tester but I think this is the first time I've posted.
Just to say that my little family (3 players in this house) and myself are against the idea of PVE death costs. We like to mess around, have fun, bite off more than we can chew and that's the best thing about this game, the freedom to have fun.
If it's just to counter people trying to solo the fort then - and I'm not sure this is an issue anyway but - make accessing the forts location cost money... the skull guides you to a dodgy geezer who you bribe to let you passed - what would otherwise be - an impenetrable hail of cannon fire from the towers. Each time you die, you have to repay.
Or just increase the death timer each time you fall to a hail of Skele-Fire until the ship sinks or some form of cap (height of cap debatable / tune-able obviously).
What about the bugs that are in the game right now where the fastest and sometimes only way to clear them is you kill yourself?
These bugs include:
Inventory no showing up, or limiting you to one item even though you are maxed out.
Weapons de-spawning and unable to re-equip
All tools de-spawning and leaving you only to use planks, cannon balls, and bananas
Every round I play someone complains about one of these things happening, sometimes multiple times. So at least fix these bugs before any death tax, because we are using death to fix the game right now.
@uberkull Why do you assume 100g is less realistic than 1000g per death? What are you basing this assumption on?
I like the idea of a cost for dying to NPC enemies, but environmental deaths (fall damage, etc.) shouldn't deduct gold. If environmental deaths cost people money, they wouldn't take nearly as many risks (i.e. launching from a cannon).
Maybe drowning, since that's super avoidable (unless you're in the grip of the kracken) - I dunno.
So I am new to the forums but here is my suggestion rather than having a gold penalty. I saw other people talking about losing reputation with the different guilds which I do agree with but here is my other suggestion that can fix this constant respawn abuse. I will be splitting these suggestions based off how you die and whether you ship is sunk or not.
Ship afloat but you die Same as it is you simply respawn in your ship after a short time.
Ship sinks and you die You get transported to the underworld or whatever you want to call it and you have to sail to reclaim your ship from the ferryman and his skeleton army. Basically you get a ship and fight the ferryman once you kill him you repawn with all the supplies you had minus treasure at the nearest outpost. Alternatively you can chose to not fight the ferryman if you didnt have much and respawn right away but you spawn far away from where you were sunk.
I think this can fix the issue of losing a lot of supplies when on a four person gallion that sinks while also giving fresh spawns a chance to get away from trolls that kill them over and over. This will also fix people constantly attacking people at forts because if they sink they essentially have to go through a whole other ship fight with the ferryman before they can try to attack you again giving the people at the fort time to regroup and think of more strategy. Also as a side note im really into immersion and I think this will help with that since it gives an explanation as to way you can come back from the watery grave and that reason is youve proven your worth to the ferryman.
@khaleesibot the biggest problem I have is when you sink a ship they are close enough to be right back in your face while your trying to take the loot you just earned from sinking them. I think this should be looked at you shouldn't be able to constantly come back to be an annoyance without a penalty whether its a death time or the crew that wins gets some of the gold from the losing crew because without the risk of losing loot they will just keep coming back and sooner or later you will run out of supplies and your not gaining anything. PvP is rarely rewarded since most people just run to an outpost and do drive by drop offs
Absolutely. I'm definitely in a camp that appreciates survival mechanics in almost any game I play, so I know I'm weighted in one direction.
I do agree ramping longer respawn times and ship death tax is probably a safer bet for the entire community.
All I wanted to express is that a death tax isn't a fundamental evil; It has merits that can add/change the game in a positive way for a certain crowd.
@katttruewalker apologise for posting a thread about the death tax being ..dead. I did search for the topic but it didn't find one. Lol
Rare read the forums, they are aware of issues that the Community are discussing and they will act on the feedback received. We've seen this time and again since the first Alpha tests.
This is what the Mega threads are for.
Very happy to hear this. Glad they are listening. I am having lots of fun with this game so far and look forward to the future content.
This is a horrible idea. No sloop will touch skele forts, The minute man skele gun squad will take all your money. What's a player to do when they are out of gold and can't buy a mission? We don't need or want a death toll we need ships to spawn far from it's sinking point then the problem will be fixed.
@donnydanger78 No worries at all!
@khaleesibot Death cost is a terrible idea and bad for the game. Do not do it.