[Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4)

So I've tried to set sail with my friend 3, 4 if you count the time it actually let us in the game to crash on me and force my friend to exit, totally different times now as a small sloop crew and the only thing I've been able to accomplish is getting spawn camped by a 4 man crew. It doesn't matter what we do we die and lose the ship every single time we spawn. What's even more irritating is that WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, the people are doing it just to be trolls. Even when we spawned on a different island we look out for the galleon and by the time I can get the boat moving it's already on top of us. That is HORRIBLE game design and it needs to be fixed. In the past 26 hours I have not enjoyed a single moment of game play. FIX THIS for the love of god.

There could be a system similar to WoW, where you're set to "passive" and no one can attack you, unless you either attack first, or set yourself to "aggressive."
I've been playing the release for two days and it's a fairly barren sea, but when I do encounter players they're nothing but aggressive, always attacking unprovoked. There's no easy way for PvE progression when you lose the damn chicken coop every time you die. And yes, the respawn system is wack. You respawn on your ship, where your killers sit idly, waiting for you to return, and kill you over and over.

@wipe-nd-clean Thanks, I'll try that. Didn't know that was an option.

I would like to be able to do something to show that I'm not going to attack unless provoked like a small flag or something that be raised and lowered to show being hostile or neutral. Also, I wish that the devs could make it where people can't spawn camp, because I kept trying to respawn for like 30 minutes, and a crew just kept one-shotting me as soon as I spawned.

It's quite ironic. The low population and frequency of encounters actually contributes to more encounters in which players chase you to the ends of the map because they haven't seen anyone in a while and they gotta get their fix like a dog humping your leg.

Aside from the "far extreme" PVE viewpoint that there should be a 100% non PvP option in the game, the main issue with PVP vs PVE in this game is the "novelty killing".

That is when a crew kills another crew, perhaps spawn-camping their ship to repeatedly do it, with no benefit to them. Or sinking their ship parked on an island when there was no treasure aboard, or getting on and driving it away.

My suggestion is simply to engage matchmaking / PVP only when a crew is on an active voyage. This still retains the spirit of the game - forced multiplayer encounters - while giving some small respite to crews during the times when engagements would simply have nothing to do with pirating anyway.

I do have to say that this is a pirate game. With that being said, pirates and PvP (or pillaging) kinda go hand in hand...but not everyone is simply playing this game for the historical aspects of it. Once you include monsters like skeletons attacking, you include the PvE aspect to the game. With that added, I am a strong believer that there are 3 types of gamers in this world: PvP, PvE, and PvEVERYTHING. I personally enjoy a PvE game much more than anything else, but I still have fun with the occasional PvP battles.

I have to say that this game truly does need a much more solid balance of PvE to PvP. I had just played yesterday, 15 hours after launch. When I joined a Galleon with a large crew...sadly it was a crew of friends that simply voted me into the brig then had fun killing me multiple times until I left the game. That is just petty bully c**p that ruins games right out of the gate. It honestly made me immediately regret my purchase...I am going to check the LFG forums in the hopes of finding a crew (that's NOT made up of sociopaths). But if I find myself struggling any further to even play this game, I will be taking it back to the store...

So if it ever comes down to a vote, I hereby cast my vote for a separate PvE / PvP experience. Like different servers to join. One with 0 PvP, one with PvP and PvP, and one solely about an ocean full of PvP war. It has worked for COUNTLESS online games over the years, it can work for this one as well.

Honestly, I'd say we just enforce our own community pirate code. If we see a ship of 4 attack a solo player, go in to assist. I was wondering why there wasn't a crew or fleet system in this game. It would have been cool to have roaming groups designated as peace keepers, that kind of act as a community driven police force to make sure the code is being considered. At the end of the day, yeah, it's a pirate game, but when I play solo and a group of guys ram into me, kill me, for no reason (I didn't even have any loot lol) it kinda stops being pirates and more...just another multiplayer game.

I usually try to avoid MP and PvP when I can. Too many egos and people being jerks...I just don't find it fun. I hope something can thought up for this game to help keep the PvP aspect fun and fair.

@its-vill basically you're saying, if you keep killing a player, they should be punished for dying?
Makes perfect sense.

I think if you're being attacked and you're not dying, you shouldn't be complaining. The people that want some respite from pvp are those being spawn killed, or just plain trying to enjoy the game's atmosphere without being attacked unprovoked.

I think a "passive" and "aggressive" mode would work best, with an indicator like World of warcraft... change color of name to indicate hostile or friendly. Once you attack unprovoked, you go aggressive and name changes color to red. Every unprovoked attack against a "passive" player increases a bounty on you, claimable by any player regardless of status. If a passive player retaliates against a hostile player or kills a player with a bounty, they stay passive, so other players can't just team up on the passive player without going "aggressive" themselves (creating a bounty on themselves).

@pikaaroon

When you sink a pirate ship and kill the entire crew they should spawn in a different sermover. My crew sank a galleon several times during a skeleton fort. It was complete domination, however they kept sailing back for us. After several times sinking them and depleting are resources we had no planks and cannon balls left. They however kept getting re stocked with supplies everytime their new shipped spawned. They eventually ended up getting away with most of the loot because we simply ran out of supplies sinking them so much and they wouldn't stop coming back. Having them spawn in another server would have solved the issue.

Hey everyone! So I would like to add my mark on this topic, as I absolutely love the game but absolutely hate losing almost 3h of missions and sailing with my friends because of some lunatic ramming into our ship on a suicide mission to blow us all with an explosive barrel. The waste of time feels very frustrating and randomly aggressive maniacs should not obliterate other's game enjoyment.

I feel like some kind of karma system should be implemented or in parallel to the existing "guilds" add an outlaw guild with ranks. You only have to reward PvP-oriented people for kills and sinks on other PvP-oriented players (ones in the outlaw guild, not on others) so they get great battles against each others and also are rewarded for PvP, so they don't have to leech onto PvE players.
On the other side, PvE players could have some sort of insurance (not mandatory) from the guild they took the mission from. In that case, if their ship is sunk they could retrieve something like 1/3rd or 1/2 of the treasure value of they get killed. This will prevent the feeling of total loss and waste of time in case they are killed by other people while they only wanted to crew up with their friends to enjoy the game. Remember that not everyone wants nor have the skill/competence to fight other crews.
With this you don't forbid random PvP and encounters but you guide people towards the play style they like while rewarding them for it. You get less frustration for PvE players that want to get some treasures and sail with their friends, and also less frustration for PvP players with better fights and rewards.

This reputation system should punish fun killers and reward every other players willing to enjoy the game regardless of their PvP/ PvE preferences. It could also bring some kind of leaderboard for the more hardcore players who wants to be the best and allow everyone to feel less alone on the sea.

Last thing, I saw people talking about changing servers when the crew is wiped out or the ship is sunk : supremely good idea!

Cheers everyone, enjoy the game and most of all be respectful to others. We are all here to enjoy the game so remember, behind every character on every ship is a real living human being ;)

Let’s make this game a hit that last forever! Quick list of a few things that would improve it;
*Drop in multiplayer. The main menu being the ONLY way to play with friends even when you were on a galleon with a crew then they leave and now you on that galleon alone! When you can easily add a friend or 2 and stay in the action.
*Upgradable gear that only effect PVE like stronger swords and better weapons. The Skelly’s are overpowered in the forts and never miss you with shots. Other crews just fight us instead of helping
*GRENADES,
*Social hub safe zones where pirates can’t kill eachother. Like maybe the outpost are a bit less about dropping off loot and leaving as fast as possible so that you won’t get “snuck up on” by camping players just there to take loot. The community as of now does not incentivize working with other pirate crews so you find yourself fighting everything.
*“Pirate mystery story” Faction voyages that really just involves you and your crew discovering the mystery behind the world we are playing in. Gold is earned directly rather than loot that most likely will get stolen. I love this game and I love social experiences and I think most people on Xbox could agree with social gaming being the way forward.

I haven't read all of the replies to this thread as it is a lot. But after my first experience of the game for a few hours last night, I feel like I could contribute a few things to the conversation.

About a safe zone - I do like the idea of a centralized place that could be used as a safe zone. A place where there is a truce between pirates, where groups can come and meet up without the threat of getting killed or loot stolen. A place to play mini games sounds like an amazing idea to meet people, and get a convoys started. All the promo pics show 10+ pirates together, and that is something I don't think we'll see in the game world

PvE ideas - This is where my mind couldn't stop thinking about after playing the game. While my first experience was awesome (one of the best gaming experiences in the last several years), I do see on how it can become repetitive. You get a map, sail to island, dig it up, turn it in, and don't get killed along the way.

The historic pirates were known for stealing from merchant ships. So what I am picturing is random groups of 3-5 merchant ships with different supplies/loot on board. For example a group of 3 ships just carrying bananas. You won't know what is on board until you board their ships or have different markings saying what could be onboard. Convoys with chests onboard would have armed guards or guard boats with them, making it riskier to take, but a better pay out. The catch would be, if you sink the boat, no loot would be given.

Talking about guard boats, it would also be cool to see boats from the French or British navies sailing around trying to take out pirates. Maybe more of a boss battle type. Google the pics of the French ship Royal Louis (1758), for ideas. I'm picturing more of a GTA type element of, as you destroy other ships and rob merchant boats, your negative reputation will increase, the Royal Navy will mark you as wanted and start sending their fleets your way. You could try and fight them or run away and wait for the pursuit to die down and the coast to clear. I think that would be a great gaming element.

I just wanted to add my ideas. I can't wait to see what is in store for the future!

Posted this elsewhere --------

I typically do not like PvP. Not my cup of tea and find it a nuisance. That said, I believe this game is made better by its inclusion and lack of interference.

What I would do with PvP is try to add a Bounty Hunter's Guild which will monitor the notoriety of a given pirate and offer rewards for capture.

The way I see this working is that as a player engages in PvP, their notoriety is increased. As this notoriety goes up, the Bounty Hunter's Guild will offer increased rewards for tracking down and ending the life of a bloodthirsty pirate.

This, creates incentives for player's to hunt down the pirate which is a win-win for players that love PvP. They will get more players trying to hunt them down - which will increase the amount of PvP they are involved in.

The Notoriety rating would be permanent to the player/crew in that it does not refresh on log out and does not decrease over time. The only way to reduce the level is to pay off the Bounty Hunter Guild. Dying will reduce the wanted level marginally for short periods of time, but the only way to permanently remove the bounty is by paying off the guild.

This means the downside to PvP is that if a player wishes to reset their rating, they must bribe the Bounty Hunter's Guild themselves to end the bounty. Going on wanton killing sprees can have a lasting effect on the pirate.

The Bounty Hunter's Guild will give information on pirates on the server with high piracy ratings and rumors on their general whereabouts. (ie. "It has been said that Black Bart is sailing near Mermaid's Cove.")

Additionally, the other aspect that I would add are FLAGS.

Flags would be this game's equivalent to flying your country's flag. They would give us a way to identify other players on the ocean and what they may be up to.

For instance, if you are on a Merchant Guild quest - your flag would be the Merchant Flag. As you progress in Merchant Rank, the Merchant Flag would indicate your rank.

Zooming in on the flag with a spyglass would give other crews an idea of what they are up against. It would always show the ship's notoriety rating as well.

The other aspect for flags would be that no pirate can engage another without hoisting the BLACK FLAG (whether on land or sea). Their vessel will need to have the black up in order to engage in PvP - except in retaliation or if they have an active bounty for the player. The black flag will help the system identify which player is the aggressor in any engagement - and thus which player will receive the notoriety points.

If both players have the black hoisted - then neither player receives notoriety.

Obviously it would need to be fleshed out more - but that's what I would do to make PvP have meaning and allow other "less PvP" type players know who they may want to avoid.

@hobosloth28 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

Get rid of the gamer tags on enemies so we can utilize stealth tactics!!!
The big white letters completely blows your cover when trying to sneak onto a ship.

Not sure I would 'get rid of gamer tags' completely. Perhaps to get a gamer tag to show, you have to spot them with a spyglass?

@its-vill either you're not explaining it correctly, or I'm misunderstanding you...
If YOU have loot on your ship & someone attacks you for it, you kill them & (should) sail away. They cannot keep spawning on your ship because it doesn't work that way. When you respawn, it's on or near your own ship.
So maybe, You're on their ship killing them over & over, which makes you the a*****e.
Which is it?

Oh my God fix the spawn killing already. Add a passive mode or something. This community is already so toxic...