[Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4)

  • @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388
    It seems like currently ship encounters are fairly uncommon though making pure pvp play extremely unprofitable.

    In one encounter though while playing on a sloop solo I got lucky and was able to board another players ship, steal a chest, and return to my own ship only to lead a 45 minute chase that got joined by 2 other ships and crossed the entire map, all over one seafarers chest. It was hilarious and super fun, and since we all were sailing at pretty much the same speed it didn't end until everyone just got tired of chasing me. Oh and i got to stand on the back of the ship and taunt them the entire time.

    I have had ship encounters swing both ways. In the last scale test, my buds and I spent 3 hours constantly fighting other ships, but then on my last play in the final beta, it felt like we went 4 plus hours without getting near a soul. I attribute this to the unpredictable nature of people.

    Fantastic story! Sounds like an epic journey! Lol.

  • @mri1ama Well, good for you that you had such luck, but when so many people get the feeling of hostility everywhere that means ther is something wrong. Also we're seeing this as what developers tell it is. It's supposed to be really friendly game for everyone and right now it's far from this. It looks like you're confident that you know what type of game it is supposed to be, but I don't think you're right on this.

    When it comes to structures in design they simply needed. There are many games that tried to give players options to kill each other in sandbox setting and most of the time they just ended up being typical killing and backstabbing simulators. It's not that I want to a proper way to play, because I want exactly the opposite, but if things stay this way that's whats gonna happen for the most part. Of course there will be cases of friendly encounters, but it's not worth my time trying and searching for such cases and being attacked multiple times in the process.

    When it comes to sandbox I don't think having something attack you under certain circumstances (having low reputation for example) is that much out of place in this type of games. GTA for example have such thing in form of police. Yeah, maybe it's not full-on sandbox, but it's sandbox-y nature is quite important.

    Anyway, you just enjoy how it is right now and came here to fight for the game to stay the way it is and not for actual discussion how to balance this game and I think it's fine. But I simply disagree on what this game is supposed to be and what lots of people expecting from such title. I simply don't think that the current state of the game can stand up to what developers claim it to be and after reading lots of your responses I think we won't agree on anything outside agree to disagree and lets wait what RARE will do having all of these threads and opinions.

  • @wrothamoeba388

    In the end, you want to tell the pve player that hates pvp that is just the game, but then you don't like the results of pvp in the game and want more. Sorry, that's just the game. The gamble to get no loot for your hunt is part of pvp.

    I never said I didn't like that aspect of PvP, but you saying this paragraph right here is siding with my side of this discussion. Both sides have equal and opposite problems with their chosen actions. Therefore it is balanced and doesn't need penalties on PvP.

    If pvp players gain extra rewards for those battles then they literally get it all. No downside to playing pvp at all. Where as a true pve player is always faced with the downside of getting preyed upon by the pvp player.

    I said in my posts that the PvP player having a chance to get no loot is how the game is balanced. Ontop of that if no one does PvE then there will be no loot and PvP players WILL be forced to do PvE if they want to progress.

    You also upvoted @DaBOMBER117 's post right after this post that i'm quoting which is also towards my side of the discussion which is PvP is already extremely unprofitable so adding a penalty like no rep is like kicking someone while they are down.

    As for adding the video they explain their core values to the game, which "finding the loot is only half the battle then you have to cash it in for the REAL reward" With that being said, the loot is the more important part of voyage rather than the voyage itself so it only makes sense to give rep to whoever cashes in the loot whether its stolen or not, these merchants live in a game called sea of thieves I doubt they'd care who they get the loot from.

    @BeakedHawk74801 I think they said it pretty clearly in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJUG-Xrh_g

    EVERY ship on the horizon will be manned by a crew of real people, and you will run into ships other ships in the game and how you interact with them is COMPLETELY UP TO YOU.

    I think I laid out all of that in my post, so i'd say I did a pretty decent job at summing up what they want for their game.

    And to both of you this game is called Sea of THIEVES, if you really thought this game was set out to be a PvE haven I really don't know what to tell you. But everything they are saying in their videos and press releases is that they support both sides which they should it's a PvPvE game, which means not hindering one side of the equation because some people don't like getting stolen from in a PIRATE game called Sea of THIEVES.

  • @mri1ama And it' simply naive to think that without certain rules it won't be a case of simply shooting right away. I've heard enough people that tried to be friendly and ended up being attacked all the time. This way it will end up with only pvp players, because lots of people that seeks socialization with others (which is something the devs want for this game) will leave or turn into not trusting anyone pvp players as they won't get enough of this friendly encounters that this game claims to offer.

  • Just to add something constructive to this. I think if any npc ships were to be added, ghost ships would be really cool and would clearly stand out from player ships.

  • @beakedhawk74801 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @mri1ama And it' simply naive to think that without certain rules it won't be a case of simply shooting right away. I've heard enough people that tried to be friendly and ended up being attacked all the time. This way it will end up with only pvp players, because lots of people that seeks socialization with others (which is something the devs want for this game) will leave or turn into not trusting anyone pvp players as they won't get enough of this friendly encounters that this game claims to offer.

    I don't trust anyone already. I fire on approach. The betas taught me that.

  • I think it would be cool to be able to put a bounty on infamous "bully pirates" for our hard earned gold or something like that. (:

  • @beakedhawk74801 You get a mixture of both is what they are aiming for, I do both I will sometimes sail the seas and sink anyone who gets close to me. Othertimes i'll sit on the end of my ship and play my music for passing ships. It's up to the people what they act. It's naive to think that everyone is going to run away from this game except people who only like PvP. Because I love ALL aspects of the game, and there are a lot more people like me out there.
    If I get sunk and lose loot, oh well thats part of the game they bested me and I will learn from my mistakes.
    If I run into another ship and we end up just playing music and chit chatting for a while then go on our own separate ways cool.
    There isn't enough in PvP to hold an only PvP hungry crowd.

    @DaBOMBER117 They literally just said in a video they posted today EVERY SHIP WILL BE MANNED BY ANOTHER PLAYER. They aren't even considering NPC ships as an option.

  • @syrnevar Better yet, have a npc that sells player bounty voyages which give you a mark on your ship map showing where the bounty target is. Bounty targets would be the ships with the highest kill streaks.

  • @mri1ama OMG. Do you even read my responses. Sigh. I feel pvp is a necessary part of the game. Understand?

    I am not looking for a sole pve game. Understand?

    There is a reason why Rare didn't put in pvp missions at this point. They want people to play the pve content as well. You keep acting like pvp is the only spirit of the game. It does need to be PvPvE. There should be motivation to PvE as well. Not just give the PvP players all the rewards for no risks.

    I just don't feel PvP players should get even more rewards then they do now. If they wasted their time and got nothing, sorry, that's just the game.

  • @wrothamoeba388 What do you think of the idea of having an npc faction that sells voyages to hunt down other pvpers?

  • @wrothamoeba388 I literally just said I don't want them to get more rewards than they already get I want it to remain the status quo. If you get rid of rep rewards from PvP it will KILL PvP. I also literally said there is already motivation to do PvE, doing PvE gives you more rep/gold per hour than PvP ever will. Is this that hard of a concept?

    And the only reason i'm defending PvP so hard is because there is no need to defend PvE because as I said no one is attacking it. You don't see these mysterious hardcore PvP players I hear so much about coming in here saying all PvE needs penalties to promote more PvP but you do see PvE fanatics in here saying PvP needs penalties to promote PvE.

  • @dabomber117 I'd hope that the information given would be at best the last known location, crew names and ship colours. If bounties are open and anyone can collect on them, they'll bump into someone hunting them soon enough.

  • @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 What do you think of the idea of having an npc faction that sells voyages to hunt down other pvpers?

    I think that the idea has merit, or to have a faction that would guard players as escorts. (I would love to do that!) The problem is without UI assistance how would you bounty hunt players? It would be extremely hard to pick out one ship on the horizon.

  • Just passing by to keep up to date, please continue. :)

  • @wrothamoeba388 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 What do you think of the idea of having an npc faction that sells voyages to hunt down other pvpers?

    I think that the idea has merit, or to have a faction that would guard players as escorts. (I would love to do that!) The problem is without UI assistance how would you bounty hunt players? It would be extremely hard to pick out one ship on the horizon.

    They're hunting ships. Find any ship and stay with it at a distance; the target will find them.

  • @ironuzuka Literally the same old song and dance from the last 3 threads, some hardcore PvE players mad that PvP is in the game and they want to throw punishments out on people who steal loot in a pirate game called sea of thieves.

  • @mri1ama Didn't our whole conversation start with the concept of pvp players getting a ship figure from every ship they sink. Something they could turn in to make pvp worth it?

  • @arecbalrin said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 What do you think of the idea of having an npc faction that sells voyages to hunt down other pvpers?

    I think that the idea has merit, or to have a faction that would guard players as escorts. (I would love to do that!) The problem is without UI assistance how would you bounty hunt players? It would be extremely hard to pick out one ship on the horizon.

    They're hunting ships. Find any ship and stay with it at a distance; the target will find them.

    True. I guess I was thinking specific bounty missions. Like go hunt X pvp pirate for Y reward.

  • @wrothamoeba388 And I said that was folly like 5 posts ago, I put that out there as a benefit to PvE because people always complain they get nothing from sinking a ship that's attacking them if they have no loot. But if it's too much of a problem because it would make PvPers happy because they get something from every ship they sink whether or not they have loot then screw the idea.

    The only gripe I have here is penalizing people for playing the way they want to and stunting your reputation because you participate in one aspect of the game and not the other.

  • @wrothamoeba388

    @wrothamoeba388 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @arecbalrin said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 What do you think of the idea of having an npc faction that sells voyages to hunt down other pvpers?

    I think that the idea has merit, or to have a faction that would guard players as escorts. (I would love to do that!) The problem is without UI assistance how would you bounty hunt players? It would be extremely hard to pick out one ship on the horizon.

    They're hunting ships. Find any ship and stay with it at a distance; the target will find them.

    True. I guess I was thinking specific bounty missions. Like go hunt X pvp pirate for Y reward.

    Yep, Just a wanted flyer handed out by the npc with all the info on it that can be voted on just like any other voyage.

  • @mri1ama said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 And I said that was folly like 5 posts ago, I put that out there as a benefit to PvE because people always complain they get nothing from sinking a ship that's attacking them if they have no loot. But if it's too much of a problem because it would make PvPers happy because they get something from every ship they sink whether or not they have loot then screw the idea.

    The only gripe I have here is penalizing people for playing the way they want to and stunting your reputation because you participate in one aspect of the game and not the other.

    Then we have no real opposition.

    I would like to see pvp players also play the pve side of the game as well though. If the game stays as is, then I really don't have a huge amount of grief. I believe the game should have something to draw the pvp player to the other content as well.

  • @mri1ama Oh, and the figurehead idea was no benefit for the pve player, just a way to increase gains for pvp. Be honest. Lol.

  • @wrothamoeba388 I honestly couldn't care less if they increased gains for PvP or not. I like the fact that there is a chance of not getting loot because as I said it balances PvP. Even though i'm in here defending PvP I play way more PvE, I just don't want the thrill of stealing loot from another crew to be diminished because it is worth less than if you did it with PvE.

    As I said I love both aspects of the game and think it is great as it is, it just needs more reasons to bring people together. Penalizing PvP won't bring people together. Adding content that encourages people to socialize will bring people together. IE. Mini-games, music, and grog.

  • @mri1ama said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    The only gripe I have here is penalizing people for playing the way they want to and stunting your reputation because you participate in one aspect of the game and not the other.

    So you do understand that people can, in fact, participate solely in that one aspect (PvP) if they so choose, that PvE will never suddenly appear on the horizon and actively chase them away from their PvP targets.

    Do you also understand that PvP perpetually appears on the horizon to chase PvE players away from their targets? That this is a legitimate imbalance in how approachable each play style is?

    Finally, most importantly, do you understand that the purpose of this mega thread is not to doggedly defend the sate of the game as-is to the bitter end, but to invite discussion, especially from dissatisfied players, as to ways in which the game might be improved in the future? The community and RARE are well aware by now that you feel the game is fine the way it is and requires no further development in terms of balancing. You have stated your opinion clearly, vehemently, and repeatedly. There's really no need to continue replying to every new post you don't like about why the poster's ideas are wrong and would harm the game and if they're unsatisfied they should find another game.

    Sorry to be so negative but at first I had high hopes for this new, 4th mega thread (foolish I know) but every time I come back most of what I see is you arguing continuously with anyone and everyone who's asking for changes... I get that RARE has already made statements against a lot of those changes, but that doesn't mean they have no interest in knowing how people feel about those decisions. Just let the conversation happen. The game and RARE will be fine without you here shooting down every naysayer who comes along.

    Having said all that, I won't be bothering you with this opinion again. Cheers mate, hope to see you on the high seas, I would love the opportunity to try (and likely fail) to escape for you, or to fight you, or to sing, dance and drink grog with you... In the end, we are mostly in agreement about the game, I just take exception to your conduct on the forums. But again, I've said my piece, now I'll shut up about it. Thanks for reading.

  • @jinxybinx a dit dans [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4) :

    @ragga95 Skeleton Forts are intended for multiple crews to work together (with possible back stabbing), but not something that can be solo'd or just 1 crew.

    At 4 yes it's possible and 3 too:) you want to watch video ? But single pvp or pve in this island oucchhhhh no no it's not a activity for us but Rare work only for multiplayer :)

  • Here's an idea for a bit of extra PVE content. How about a Bermuda triangle esque area of the map with some new enemy threats (possibly ghost ships) and new environmental threats. It might be a great way to lose perusing player vessels and escape.

  • @wrothamoeba388 Oh! This just hit me. What if we could open chests and get the gold, but no reputation? That way if an enemy ship is after you and you don't think you can win the fight, you can open the chests.

  • @deusnecrotis
    For your first point that is entirely part of the game, I really don't see why this is viewed as such a terrible thing. If you literally cannot handle PvP or hate it. You need a game that has no PvP instead of a game that has PvP as a core part of the game. The reason you get rewarded as much as you do for loot is because of risk. Without PvP the risk is minimal at best. This is a PvPvE game, take all of it or take none of it, it's that simple.

    If you want to just do PvE cool go ahead and do just that and realize you are gonna have to run from ships when you have loot.
    If you want to do just PvP cool go ahead and do just that and realize you are gonna get less rep/gold per hour than if you were doing just PvE.

    If it wasn't just the same blabber as the past 3 threads I wouldn't have to reiterate the exact same things i've said in previous threads. My opinion is just as viable as anyone elses. All i'm doing here is reiterating logical points that were made in the previous threads because people seem to either not read them or dis-regard them. I'm all for things that make this game better and on the previous threads every 100 posts or so someone would post something innovative instead of the same "less loot for pvp, mark pvp players like they are witches in salem etc etc."

    I realize that if Rare is reading this they get my point, i'm here to try and educate people to think about their posts and what it actually means to the vision of the game. If I wasn't here it would just literally be an Anti-PvP thread where fanatic PvE players would feed off eachother into a frenzy because most players who are satisfied with the game like myself don't come to the forums for just that reason.

    But to be honest, this will be my last post here and i'll prove my point.

  • @mri1ama I dont know about you but I'm on the forums because I'm so hyped for the game. I just wanna hear people's ideas and share some.

  • @mri1ama said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @deusnecrotis
    For your first point that is entirely part of the game, I really don't see why this is viewed as such a terrible thing. If you literally cannot handle PvP or hate it. You need a game that has no PvP instead of a game that has PvP as a core part of the game. The reason you get rewarded as much as you do for loot is because of risk. Without PvP the risk is minimal at best. This is a PvPvE game, take all of it or take none of it, it's that simple.

    Yeah I get that PvP is a wholly unavoidable part of the game, I'm not arguing that point. More specifically, I'm arguing that PvE is definitively not an obligatory part of the game. But that's not really even the point of the post, perhaps I shouldn't have included that bit. I also get that you don't understand why not everyone is happy with the state of things as is, that you think they should come to this thread already armed with all available knowledge on the subject so as not to post anything that's been said before, and that if RARE has made any statements about their intentions people should just accept those decisions and if they're in any way dissatisfied move on and not buy the game.

    If you want to just do PvE cool go ahead and do just that and realize you are gonna have to run from ships when you have loot.
    If you want to do just PvP cool go ahead and do just that and realize you are gonna get less rep/gold per hour than if you were doing just PvE.

    This still isn't really balance though. Whether you personally choose to acknowledge their existence or not, there are pure PvP players who regularly post their intentions to wholly ignore all PvE rewards including gold, rep, cosmetics, Pirate Legend progression, and the rest. By their own words, all they want is to hunt and kill, and they like this game because literally nothing holds them back from that beyond their own willingness to invest time. That's the real reason no one is in here begging for a reduction of PvE, because PvP is already wholly unrestricted and nobody centered on that play style has anything to complain about regarding how PvE is constantly getting in their way. Not so the PvE player.

    If it wasn't just the same blabber as the past 3 threads I wouldn't have to reiterate the exact same things i've said in previous threads. My opinion is just as viable as anyone elses. All i'm doing here is reiterating logical points that were made in the previous threads because people seem to either not read them or dis-regard them. I'm all for things that make this game better and on the previous threads every 100 posts or so someone would post something innovative instead of the same "less loot for pvp, mark pvp players like they are witches in salem etc etc."
    Again, you've stated those opinions... if other people, including new posters, are not allowed to re-iterate the same views they or others have already posted, why are you allowed to continually re-post your ideas? Is it because you are right and people who aren't right should not be allowed to speak? Why do feel so compelled to correct every wrong person who comes in here failing to understand the nature of the game? Are you afraid RARE will cave and ruin the game? Are you just mad that they don't get, even after all this time and all your posts?
    I realize that if Rare is reading this they get my point, i'm here to try and educate people to think about their posts and what it actually means to the vision of the game. If I wasn't here it would just literally be an Anti-PvP thread where fanatic PvE players would feed off eachother into a frenzy because most players who are satisfied with the game like myself don't come to the forums for just that reason.

    Ok. Could you direct me to the part of the OP for this mega thread where is says players who are happy with the game should continually correct and shoot down any ideas or posts they don't agree with, or that they feel RARE doesn't agree with? Because I only saw the part about...
    "One of the most important topics, the topic of inclusion as we all want to make sure that Sea of Thieves appeals to as many gamers as possible and everyone enjoys the game regardless of their own personal motivations.

    Discuss below.

    Thank you! :D"

    Ok, one reply. Now I'm really done, I won't be replying again to this particular subject. Much like the other ongoing arguments you are engaged in, I feel it clutters up the forums with unnecessary information RARE already possesses. The new people coming in to express old ideas count as necessary, because if they don't come in and post their thoughts at least once each, how will RARE know how many people are actually unhappy with their design decisions? Near as I can tell, the thread exists so RARE can get a sense of of how the community as whole feels. Let the people talk... that's all I'm really asking. There really is no point to individually arguing with every wrong person who comes in, other than whatever it is you think you're getting out of it. As always, thanks for reading.

  • @deusnecrotis You get it. Thank you.

  • @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 Oh! This just hit me. What if we could open chests and get the gold, but no reputation? That way if an enemy ship is after you and you don't think you can win the fight, you can open the chests.

    That would guarantee no rewards for pvp. As every pve player would crack those babies at the first sign of trouble. But, thanks for thinking outside the box. Maybe collectively we can find a amiable solution that satisfies both types of gamers.

  • @wrothamoeba388 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @dabomber117 said in [Mega Thread] - Balance between PvE and PvP elements, to ensure a great experience for everyone (Part 4):

    @wrothamoeba388 Oh! This just hit me. What if we could open chests and get the gold, but no reputation? That way if an enemy ship is after you and you don't think you can win the fight, you can open the chests.

    That would guarantee no rewards for pvp. As every pve player would crack those babies at the first sign of trouble. But, thanks for thinking outside the box. Maybe collectively we can find a amiable solution that satisfies both types of gamers.

    This might work if they added consumable key items that you could buy at outposts or find on islands

  • @dabomber117 the game is PVEVP there is no solution its open world free for all.

213
Posts
140.6k
Views
2 out of 213