[Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service (Part 1)
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@mdk-popinfresh said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
@suave-beard said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
@alexgambrel12 said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
@secretcodrin They need to be able to afford to pay people to make this game a year, two years, etc, down the line. Continued development a'int cheap!
Oh, C****t, another White-Knight-Pirate looking out for the bottom line of Microsoft and RARE.......
People need to stop with this way of thinking because it isn't reciprocated by these mega corporation.
Sea of Thieves is a Free-To-Play game, built as a Free-To-Play game in terms of content and progression, with future 'services' and DLC being that of a Free-To-Play game. Literally nothing about SoT is structured as that of a traditional game. The upfront ask of $60 on what they are openly promoting as a "service" is hilarious.
Do you honestly believe Microsoft (As of this writing worth $724.24 Billion USD) can't show a return on Sea of Thieves with only one monetization route being used, F2P or Retail? This is also ignoring the merchandising that is going on along side of it, as well as the savings seen by being their own Publisher, Developer, Distributor.
No, but please, continue to worry about their business operations and how they achieve a satisfactory ROI. Not about what you actually get for your money.
If Sea of Thieves isn't vastly overhauled by launch it will either go Free-To-Play at launch, or, shortly after to survive. You can not ask $60 for a game that has zero progression outside of cosmetic/social standing and then tie in micro-transactions that fills that progression, cosmetic or not.
With Sea of Thieves' current state the only different between Pirate Bob with 2,000 hours and Pirate Dope with 1 hour is how they look. Great, right? Well, except when Pirate Dope looks just as 'amazing' or 'better' because he tossed down an extra $100 on cosmetics.
People don't respond to that well.
Cosmetics as micro-transactions are debatable enough as it is but when the game they are in only has cosmetics as its progression......
Iceberg!!!!!!!!!!
Cool story bro, seems to be working for Fashion Wars 2. If you only play something so that you can get things that are better than what someone else has, you are an envious person. You are missing the journey for the destination. In your example, a player spent an extra $100 and looks cool. Good for him. The first player has 2000 hours of enjoyment and adventures they have gone on.
This has to be the most half-A*s attempt to defend a money grab I have ever seen.
Pay for progression is suddenly O.K. because it is Sea of Thieves?
Please.
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@dhg-ixxrmacxxi RARE should be extra careful with the way they do microtransactions. The ratings board is going full on with their rampage against in game purchases.
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I feel like microtransactions done such as rare is supposedly doing them is ok. If I know exactly what I'm getting and they don't top 5 bucks how are they different from cosmetic dlc packs? Randomized loot boxes are the real problem and we all know it so rare said they won't do them from what I understand.
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@dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
Following the infamous EA fiasco, we've seen a great many discussions around Microtransactions, DLC, and the Games as a Service model in Sea of Thieves.
As referenced in this announcement, any and all discussion and opinions on Microtransactions, DLC, and the Games as a Service model can be posted here.
As a reminder, the Pirate Code is more than just guidelines, but the rules of the community and game that we expect all members to abide by when participating on the forums. Any member who fails to abide by the code may find themselves put in the brig, or removed from the community.
Thank you!
Articles for Reference:
(http://ca.ign.com/articles/2018/02/13/sea-of-thieves-will-add-microtransactions-around-3-months-after-release-2)Just balance out the Micro transactions to where people who don't work, can level up without buying micro transactions but people who only have 1 hour a day to play this game should buy things from the score that would give the same amount of levels for that day.
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I was going to rant for a while about micro transactions but it seems like you’ve got it handled haha. Keep the money and “gaming” separate. Cosmetics are all yours. with a game this good Id like to just donate some money to them. But If that donation makes me better at the game then it’s just cheap and ruins the balance of hard work
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My only issue regarding micro-transactions is this: SoT is a purely cosmetic game. Would it have been a purely cosmetic game if they didn't want to incorporate mtx? There's a double edged sword with mtx. If gear, itself, becomes stronger and stronger as you progress (most rpgs) then any gear you would want to buy from mtx would need to be strong otherwise you wouldn't ever use it. But, if mtx gear is strong then the game is "pay to win." But by making gear purely cosmetic they eliminate this quandary. So my only concern is, would this game have been a lot better if we got actual loot that progressed our character from completing missions? And was that progression eliminated just so that Rare could incorporate mtx? Could the game itself have been better and more rewarding if mtx didn't exist?
For whatever reason, I feel like this particular game is better off being cosmetic only, and mtx don't really hurt the game. I guess we'll see what the end game is like once a good amount of people attain legendary status.
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@ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
Operative word. Optional. You're not forced to spend optional money. It boils down to jealousy. That person looks cool and I don't.
I hope, if any micro transactions at all; that they are purely aesthetic.
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Coming from someone who is weaning away from Destiny2 due to what I precive as a focus away from gameplay and functional gear in favor of cosmetics that are just as little important as the stuff you can earn- I think I'll lay out my thoughts on micro-transactions for SOT.
Let me 1st say, if we are just gonna buy pets and emotes from the shop- that sounds perfectly fine ESPECIALLY since there isn't any randomness involved in our purchases.
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What players work to earn shouldn't crossover into what they can buy: The obvious expample being gold, don't let players buy their way through the game. Less obviously- things the regular vendors sell shouldn't be the same TYPES of things that you can buy in the premium shop, don't sell outfits, guns or tools.
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Keep it simple, keep it safe: Again, selling Pets or emotes is fine. Keeping those things exclusive to the shop is fine (though making some earn able through special feats would be super cool, earn a baby Kraken pet from killing the Kraken as a silly example). But keep the shop simple, sell a lot of what you already sell but don't focus on expanding what you can sell or make it a focal point. Just let it be there and sell some side stuff that the other shops don't have.
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Avoid making new things exclusive to the premium shop: If you do decide to add cool new items to the game, making them accessible outside the shop is the better way to go. Lets pretend peg legs weren't in the game whatsoever- try avoid adding them to the game exclusively within the premium shop. The shop shouldn't be the only portal for new content.
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Free updates vs DLC: Free updates funded via micro-transactions are great, as long as you actually do that. DLC is great for massive campaigns or new content/items that you for whatever reason choose to avoid selling in the premium shop. Just be transparent if you decide to do paid DLC vs the free updates.
I know that all seems very opinionated and I am just a nobody. But that was my 2 cents. Mega look forward to this game and just hope I won't be driven away from it for any reason.
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As long as you can EARN it in game, you should not care that I can buy it.
I have tons of disposable income, I want to look the best while I am conquering your ships with my mates.
Just because you CAN'T buy it, doesn't mean its right to stop me from buying it.
If you can earn it in game, then go earn it. I'll still play and just buy it. Money buys convenience and I have a whole LOT of convenience.
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Just throwing my two cents on the tiny chance a dev reads it and cares.
Charging a SMALL amount of money, say £1 each, for a small collection of cosmetics and pets is something that I could swallow (assuming the game's servers are consistently good and the game is given regular content updates) but with the base price for the PC UK version being £50, it's a joke.
A first party developed, first party published, first party distributed, digital video game at £50 + micro-transactions is just too far. I can get a physical XBOX One game that was third party developed, third party published, third party distrusted, and physical, on launch for £40-£45. Either charge the £50 and never have micro-transactions, or charge £39.99 and have your micro-transaction, the latter being the better option. Both is just pure greed.
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lootbox and another microtransaction are very bad , but now my problem it's only te see this game (for xbox) at +/-45$ < 45€ and the PC version only at 69 ! In the Microsoft store !
Never i have buy a game 69€ on PS4 and never for PC game !
Ok at 69€ it's for PC and XBOX , but many PC gamers play only PC or dont have the xbox (and with crossplay it's not necessary) ! Why Amazon or another stores dont have the PC version only ?? -
I am personally a fan of the way Siege handles its updates and DLC, even if it is controversial among other gamers. Basically, they use their new content as sinks for their in-game currency. Players have a choice of saving up the currency to buy characters as they release or to use real money and invest in-game currency into their cosmetic loadout.
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@Devs,
I don't know if this goes against the spirit (or you know, financial backers) but I think it would be super cool if there were tiers of cosmetics that can be purchased via micro transactions that are tied to your reputation levels.
I was talking to someone that pointed out that it didn't matter how much swag they earned - Someone else could show off even more swag by simply buying it. Of course, you know, "pride and accomplishment" and all that, but you have an opportunity here to do both. Have like tiers of outfits that get unlocked with certain tiers of reputation levels, and certain outfits available at all steps. So if you see someone with Fancy Pirate Set A from the cash shop, they'll still be swag-tastic, but if they're wearing the "Pirate Legend Fancy Pirate Set A" set, they'll be swag-tastic AND bragadocious which is the entire point of the system
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I think that Microtransactions make sense. I want this game to last into the long run and that takes money. Rare needs to keep earning so they can keep paying a team of staff to keep working on a game. A full project team is like a Hollywood production. They're probably around a few hundred people on this project right now, and even if they do ramp down a bit they'll still need to pay 50-ish people to develop new content efficiently. If you look at a AAA developer like Ubisoft, better than 40% of their considerable revenues now come from in-game transactions. It's necessary for the developer to stay in business and I want to support that.
I also like the approach that the in game purchases don't affect your experience outside of looks or a pet
Thanks for taking this approach Rare.
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My opinion on microtransactions and DLC is that it's your choice. a company does not force you to buy extra things with real money. what I have played so far on the scale test is that everything is cosmetic, even the weapons are all the same and you cant buy "better" guns. I also noticed that you can unlock everything by earning gold and spending it like a real pirate.
If there are microtransactions for cosmetic items, so be it. I might or might not spend money on it. it really just comes down to if you wanna buy it. and with DLC, I mean if you love the game wouldn't you want more of the game? One more thing, wouldn't you want to support a game that you're really excited about?
I'll see you all on the open sea!
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I'm a bit of an old school gamer. Back in the day, we had "expansion packs" for games. They were much, much more than just little game fixes, they had additional content, and usually it was significant. It could almost be a game in itself, but required the original game to work.
Being a "completionist",I hate micro transactions, especially if I'm paying full price for a game. I think they charge way too much. For example, those "free to play" games on your phone, you can buy DLC resources to keep playing the game, rather than wait for a time out, or asking friends for "help". Opening their store, you can buy a few resources for five bucks, more for 10, a "Best deal" for 20, a super pack for 50 or the mega pack for about 100.
If you pay 100 bucks for dlc, that should be more than enough to unlock the entire game, and any future DLC.
Now imagine paying full price for a game, either the $60 version or the super deluxe edition for $90, then being offered the opportunity to buy another $100 for DLC.... No thanks.
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Full disclosure. I read the first two pages and most of the last to kinda hear the discussion before chiming in.
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Rare has to be profitable through product life.
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Rare is three years running on credit, savings, loans, investments. All of which will have to be paid back after launch. Imagine working your job for free for three years hoping you will get a large payday.
a 60.00 purchase helps pay that back. But 2 years from now they may be at the end of financial life. no more updates. no more content. no more support. just another dead end title. Your XBL membership will keep the server light on. That's it.
This game will need support beyond initial content if we want it. Here's the deal. If the game is terrible we will be gone in 3-6 months. Complain, and move on.
If the game is great, and you want nothing changed, then you have gotten your 60. worth and XBL will keep the light on for you. But if we are still here in a year, then Rare will need our financial support for continued play. -
SoT is an established cosmetic reward game. I do not want to see MT for cosmetic items that can be earned. However I am fine with exclusive MT shops. So you can't buy Admiral Sinks-a-Lot's hat, but feel free to buy a gold sail that is only available at a MT shop. I don't come home and rant on the internet about the movie theater offering popcorn, and not giving me any because I paid 10.00 for a ticket. Nor do I complain that the guy in front of me bought a large. (because I'm a business owner who knows that...) The Theater cannot survive on ticket sales alone. Not everyone wants cheap Chinese products, or willing to trade a smiling talkative human cashier for a self checkout robot because it's cheaper.
4.DLC I love well done DLC. Imagine it in SoT. We have a world map, we sail we fight we steal we cheer. DLC is a new section. Especially an "After life". you sail your ship into a rising green mist as the sky grows eerie and dark. The soundtrack shifts. The waves crashing against your hull have the distinct sounds of chains rattling. But if you navigate these waters a world of treasure awaits. If you don't have the DLC you are simply returned from the fog. But if you and your crew have it then you get all new islands and shops. Your character transforms into the un-dead. The items you purchase in "After world" are available as every other item. So that glowing eye patch is a part of your attire as much as the bilge rat boots. This works because If you don't want to buy it, you don't have to. No loss..keep playing the game you paid for. Remember that floor mats and extended warranty and service on your car cost extra.
The point is that I don't mind continued support for something that I want to build upon. Making money is not a crime. No-one here would be okay if their co-workers cried foul every time you cashed your paycheck, or got a raise, or asked for a promotion, or furthered your education and experience to go get it.
- Summary. Charge for exclusives. Do not allow earned equipment or gold to be purchased. Charge for optional DLC expansions. Give us a well built expansion once a year until not needed.
Thank you for reading my sea of text. Stay salty my friends.
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Well, considering that Microsoft want $10 so I can change my name from whatever it was several decades ago when I had an Xbox to the one I use in all my other games (Steam, Origin etc... and now this obfuscating Xbox app in Win 10, I can imagine that re-naming ships etc... will be a MT thing.
Not that paying for a renaming isn't a thing in other games, it's just one of the few things I despise about MT's. I don't mind paying for cosmetic items, and I've spent a LOT of money for cosmetic items in other games (GW2, Planetside 2, other MMO's), or even for 'convenience' items such as extra bank slots. However, XP (or other forms of levelling currency), gold boosters should be in game only.
I like the current idea of a level playing field. Skill and teamwork are going to be the defining factor, not grind or $$$/£££.
[edit] I should add that I'm a fan of the cosmetics for £££ MT system where us folks with plenty of spare cash can keep the game funded so those who can only afford the initial cost. It's a good way to keep server numbers at playable and enjoyable levels. I was quite happy to subscribe to Planetside 2 when it went F2P, as well as buying cosmetic items because I knew it would keep the servers up and devs in wages whilst other players could play for free and have access to all the upgrades in the game, but it just took them a while to grind out the XP.
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In my opinion, I wouldn’t mind paying for new content as long as it does not add to player progression and power. Which wouldn’t seem to be a problem since Rare has been completely avoiding horizontal progression by means of stronger items (e.g. a stronger damage pistol earned through quests). But if a DLC had things like new animals or companies or etc then I wouldn’t mind paying for it.
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MICROTRANSACTIONS
| premium goods and services
- cannot sense a decent way for these to be utilised believably
- no point to implement into a game with innate traction
- unless tapped into added addiction enhancements
- company that relies on these variables isn't reliable
| manipulative variables relate to following features
- incoherent rewarding asking results before proficiency
- pseudo-randomness asking loot without ventures
- r******d progression asking joy thorough maximisation
| consider educated actions when a feature fails at these sources
- the obvious
- calculated predictions
- offered roles
- elaborate storyarcs
- appropriate itemisation
- tactical countermeasures
| some characteristics that should raise an alarm at a detailed level
- flaky limitations
- abstracted content
- false advertisement
- meaningless feeding
- zero impact
- power tapping
| failure examples that eat believability and therefore clientele
- can cross tall walls with ease, but not IKEA tables
- trace and RNG surplus leads to bloated repetition
- hype a character and deliver it as premium
- expanded reward pool only for social gambling sources
- item textures or fantasies don't fit the theme
- power creep and other similar number games
PREMIUM ADVERTISEMENT
| word about in-game advertisement
- educated newbies don't buy anything at start so no pre-ads
- pre-adsing is a form of bullying and a predatory practise
- never bully your customers
- no ads during sessions, ever
- no after-session ads either
- don't post any ads outside their respective shops
- no prompt ads on screen
- no still ads on screen
- no menu shortcuts
- leave out the shallow booster wares and corner cutters
- they only work to drain effort and bloat numbers
- the premium shop needs to be away from the basic ones
- players have the right to never find the premium shop
- so make sure it stays hidden well enough
| premium shop characteristics that work as a whole
- best one never misses the theme
- best one always fits the theme
- best one never competes with basic content
- best one always promotes the basic content
- best one never offers pay-to-win and pay-to-awe items
- best one always offers balanced items
- best one never finds itself in the game
- best one always resides outside the game
PREMIUM INFLUENCE
| word about premium currencies in games
- use only one premium currency if you really like the concept
- otherwise leave premium concept out altogether
- use of premium currencies bloat repetition
| something perhaps unusual to consider
- with premium shop residing outside the game
- and no premium currency in place
- instead, devs could rob the Gold Hoarders occasionally
- this means the game and the shop communicate with each other
- deprive them from half the gold of each voyage carried in
- this means each gold amount rewarded to players is copied
- and then offer that gold to the players located at the shop
- via shop, copied gold can be bought to covet surplus
- buying gold directly is simple and a further supportive act
- no hassle and affects gameplay whenever players want
- leaves more room to focus on actually meaningful content
- meaningful content is what brings movies and books alive
| how gold costs are to be restricted
- same type items must cost the same amount
- this means no fantasy is above another at the cosmetic level
- item price range has to be influenced by the offered item amount
- this means the more is offered at once, the less gold each costs
- items have to require materials to craft them
- materials are spread across the environment
- material requirements need to match the fantasy of the item
- leather and string for boots, wood and string for clogs
- less materials given means more gold is asked instead
- the more gold is given, the longer it takes to complete the order
- more materials given means less crafting delay suffered
- crafting delay has to account merchant's efforts as well
- after crafting delay, delivery delay remains
- distance between the ship and the shop forms the delivery delay
- the closer the ship is to the shop, the less delivery delay is suffered
- same delay variables apply to any shop in the game
| further clarification
- gold is mandatory so items and the exchange won't feel exclusive
- serving attained gold keeps the economy manageable
- and technically allows us to keep the company in check too
- in other words, let us utilise blockchain of sorts
- you can't sell gold that you don't have
- you can't rob Gold Hoarders from gold that isn't there
- no treasure chests sold means no gold at Gold Hoarders
- works as a reasonable motivator
- and provides simple statistics
- zero gold generated implies zero customers
- involvement is not limited to just Gold Hoarders
- any gold reward receives the same procedure for coexistence
- this way any voyage is equally important at this level
| heads up, the best simple "premium" shop, ever
- the shop resides at the site
- at the shop, sell real accessories
- no need to buy the game to be able to buy accessories
- no need to buy accessories to get ahead in the game
- accessories need to be practical and useful
- plushie satchels, bed sheets, lamp shades, dimming curtains etc.
- keyword; tailored accessories
FOCUS & FUTURE
| suggestions with the future in mind
- always focus on new content
- keep tactics and item diversity as the primary directive
- use your 'reasonings' young Skywalker
...or should I say Seavoyager, LOL
More information at [MegaThread] Predictions & Ideas Part 1 and 2.