[Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service (Part 1)
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I don't understand all these people who claim that "back in the day" there were no microtransactions. Sure, that's true for single player games and session based games with player hosted servers, but online games with official servers, like SoT, traditionally had an accompanying subscription fee AND paid expansions.
I'll take optional cosmetic pets over $15/month and a new $40 expansion every year, thanks.
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As i said in the press thread, this sudden addition of microtransactions, out of the blue, and the lack of information regarding them (yeah, ok, you can buy pets. How many? How much? Directly with real cash? Is there a premium currency? Are they in the game? Will the premium shop be physically present around outposts?) is a big, no, a massive flipped parrot to costumers.
It's no mistery this game is built around costumization and cosmetics. What we hoard in our voyages can be spent either in "harder" (aka longer) quests, or simply objects and tonnes of skins for them. It's part of the reward system, a crucial part of the gameplay loop, to ensure veterans and newbies, while visually different, could still compete fairly.
It is also well known Rare always said lootboxes and microtransactions were out of questions. Just like tons of studios, they surfed the tsunami following the Battlefront fiasco.
And yet, here we are, talking about microtransactions for cosmetic stuff in a heavily cosmetic focused game.
Coincidentally, just after Microsoft's talks about "games as a service" (guess the whooping they got back at E3 2013 was not enough).
Right after SoT's inclusion in their game pass (and their first flipped bird to preorders, but i digress).
I cannot shake off the feeling this whole mess was more a rushed addition to follow xbox's latest suicidal trend (well, outside the US at least) than a well thought business plan. It's almost glaring, i swear, and not only for me, but for those who were not yet that convinced to buy the game. For real, the moment i said my mates about these news, those who were curious about SoT, around a dozen of people, backed off immediately.
No wonders.
Even if they pull out a WoW-like shop (up and running since 2008, and not a whine from the playerbase), the very addition seems and feels wrong, as a matter of principle. No matter how optional or minor is the shop, its very inclusion this late in development, after years of talks about "horizontal progression", feels like a shiv in the back, and will be probably the straw that broke the camel for many, now lost, potential customers.Tl, dr: bad timing and lack of info regarding such an hated feature is bad for business, nobody is surprised.
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Wanna make everyone happy (I mean most of them). This seems the way:
*Things you can buy are only cosmetic, no effect (advantages) on game play.
*Everything you can buy with real life money is available for others for lots of in-game currency. (Serious grind but non the less available). Maybe a few items exclusive for buyers, MAYBE.
*Some legendary, mythical stuff you can only get for completing some tasks, for hard earned achievements. When you see someone with that item you know, that pirate has seen some things, been through some storms, and returned from the Davy Jones locker.
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@the3lackfrozt said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
Wanna make everyone happy (I mean most of them). This seems the way:
*Things you can buy are only cosmetic, no effect (advantages) on game play.
*Everything you can buy with real life money is available for others for lots of in-game currency. (Serious grind but non the less available). Maybe a few items exclusive for buyers, MAYBE.
*Some legendary, mythical stuff you can only get for completing some tasks, for hard earned achievements. When you see someone with that item you know, that pirate has seen some things, been through some storms, and returned from the Davy Jones locker.
totally agree with you, would be perfect, and exclusive skins for premium shop is not that a huge problem for me, but I think we all should have access to at least one pet, even a generic one, in order to have the same experience
a super cool skeleton skin for the pets is not experience, it's purely cosmetic, but I consider the pets as a new content/experience because you can interact and have fun with them (take them in your hands like a barrel, put them in cannons and fire!, etc.) -
@xx-tim-toxic-xx you should read more carefully. You should be able to obtain basic pets (dont know which one but maybe it will be, brown monkey/blue parrot/black cat), all other pets will be purchasable by $$ (persian cat, cat in the shoes, monkey with a captain hat etc.)
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@xx-tim-toxic-xx, in my head i wasn't counting pets in the maybe exclusive for buyers thing. My bad for not making that clearer. Thanks for pointing it out. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
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I think this is a fine thin line to walk down.
As all know SoT is all about creating a reputation, grind coins to buy cosmetic stuff as there isn´t a real progression system (levels, skilltrees and so on). From all reading they seem to add pets first of all, but what stops them to start also create outfits that is behind a paywall? If so then you ruin the "feeling" that you have obtained an cool outfit through playing the game a lot and really deserves it... Like i said in the beginning, its a fine line and decisions needs careful thoughts before the players get access to it.
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@scheefinator oh, get your head out of the sand.
Since the beginning you say? How come there is not a single piece of evidence then? How come so many people are surprised but this sudden change of course?
I cannot find a single piece, a single article about these so planned microtransactions, only denounces against ptw transactions and lootboxes.
Not a clue to any other kind, no sir.
Not that i'm surprised: during Microsoft Central's interview at E3 2017 right after Xbox show, both Joe Neate and Gregg Mayles of Rare said they did not had a consolidate business plan.
That's not "having MTX planned since basically the beginning" lad. That's reddit speculating at best, or Rare outright lying.
Can't say what is worse. -
First, I don't really know how big Rare is as a company or how much Microsoft is interested in supporting this game in the future. So I can understand MTs are a thing (and they were to be expected some way) even if I don't really like them.
However, if having MTs will keep this game going for years to come, I welcome that.There are just a few things I think regarding MTs:
- I expect MTs items to have the same quality of the rest of the game, not a "better version". I don't want the Devs to put more effort designing MTs items, those should be on par with in-game items.
- Let us buy MTs items with in-game money. For example, you coul buy a set for 5 euros or for 20,000 gold (prices should be balanced). That way we could obtain the same items putting a lot of effort (and grind) in the game, if we really want that item. We'll have fun and keep the progression going.
Some MTs item could be bought only with real cash though, but not most of them. - Don't have items we are able to obtain as achievements or rewards after beating challenges or events to be MTs. If you'll do that, you're going to break all the promises about your progression system. I'm sure it won't happen, but I'm saying it anyway.
Oh, I'm fine with having pets as MTs only. Maybe put some in-game and the rest available only with MTs. I'll buy a raven for sure.
Please Rare, add a raven pet to the game ;) -
@arcangelo87
As far as I know the Micro-Transaction currency will be obtainable in-game as a reward for completing highly ranked missions or by finding specific objects hidden around the world of Sea of Thieves.I don't think that we will be able to buy these MT pets with tonnes of gold coins, but we will probably be able to buy them only with the MT money in the game, which will probably be called something other than gold.
Hopefully you get that Raven! :)
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As far as I know the Micro-Transaction currency will be obtainable in-game as a reward for completing highly ranked missions or by finding specific objects hidden around the world of Sea of Thieves.
I don't think that we will be able to buy these MT pets with tonnes of gold coins, but we will probably be able to buy them only with the MT money in the game, which will probably be called something other than gold.
MT Currency and In-Game Currency aren't the same thing. I think you mean In-Game Currency because, as far as we know MT Currency hasn't been confirmed yet in sea of thieves.
Micro-transactions are the purchase of content using real money. 😊
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Personally fine with the Microtransactions. Already got money to lay down on a parrot! As long as the cosmetics never affect the gameplay mechanics/ give advantages to people. I really don't care what they put behind a paywall.
I'm more than willing to support rare with this game, especially if they add cool and exciting cosmetics worth £10 or something.
It would also be nice if they added in the option to grind for the items to buy with in-game currency (but make it like extremely long to unlock). So paying is a "fast" option.
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@dhg-ixxrmacxxi I remember the days when people would praise games for not having micro transactions at all. No for some reason sense the line has been too far crossed everyone is praising them for not having lootboxes. They are making money anyways. It dosent make much of a difference. I wish we could bring that line back down and same companies for having micro transaction in general. To be completely fair atleast they arnt taking transactions right away
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@d4king55 you are blind to development progress. First of all games are more complex. Second is that the devs are making updates/dlcs/seasonal events.
They can make a game without microtransactions like then in the good old days but it will be solo or multiplayer with dedicated servers game, without dlcs/updates/events. -
@scheefinator I do agree with you, but I also see where people are coming from. Why should something at all be put behind a paywall when the content its paying for should have been in the full game from the beginning. Its a change in methodology. Back in the day when you bought a game, you bought a game. Everything was already there. Sure games took 10-12 years to make back then, but they also released with a lot more content, and it was before the online community really was a thing.
Now consumers are demanding more than ever before, and they have a voice enabled by the internet. Unfortunately this puts a lot more pressure on the developers, and it gives people a platform to make demands or complain. And one of the easiest ways to avoid blow back, is to release the game as soon as possible and add to it later on. Sadly, its just the age we live in now, and us that saw the glory days of games being released in full have come to and end.
But to reiterate, I am fine with these microtransactions. They don't offer me anything important (pets I believe are the early signs) and honestly I just do not care. If I see some person with 8 cats on the Sea of Thieves, well then that person is clearly got a thing for cats, but it doesn't really effect me as a player.
I would have an issue if they offered up things like the Rapier, Blunderbuss, or Eye of Reach, or any other weapons. Those items do have functionally different advantages, and are earnable in the game. Thus they should not be instantly purchasable from a store with real money. But it sounds like they won't be doing that, so no harm no foul.
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I wish everyone would stop getting up set about these mtx’s it’s all cosmetic and it’s all optional it’s not game breaking at all you don’t need to buy them in order to play the damn game no one said you have to buy them it’s there for people to want to spend alittle to look nice and another way to support rare as long as the prices aren’t outrageous then who cares just wait and see! Simple as that! If you don’t want to spend money THEN DONT!!!!!!!
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@Scheefinator
@Ant-Heuser-Kush
@ShadowStrider-7
@KnifeLife
@Arcangelo87
Ahoy mateys!Haven't been online for a couple of days but I've read previous comments on this thread.
MTX : It's the year 2018, if you wanna go big you can't go without some sort of income generator:
Xbox Live fees go to the Xbox brand, not Rare as one of the numerous developers on their (MS) platform.So if you need to make a choice between MTX and monthly fees I'd stick to MTX because ofcourse Xbox Live users already have a monthly subscription (BTW!!!! You can buy your xboxlive sub for 12 months for 36$ or so at a non-official reseller online. Their codes work the same as it does from the xbox store so if you can pay half why not? I've had 5 years of sub on the xbox360 for about 36$ each year.)
Lootboxes?
Hell no! no gambling please, maybe you don't realise but as a person who works with childern, these lootboxes are as addicting as raffinated sugar & C*****e (you can laugh but you know it's true).so?
There just are people who want to buy the most fanciest outfit in the store, just because they can or because they support further development of the game.There is no need to feel left out because there will be a lot of items to gain in this game. And yes there'll probably be some items that only $ can buy but hey, that's life! In your day-to-day life lots of you can't buy everything they see or want.. some people do, they have the money for it. It's okay to feel sad about that but please don't envy them for it.
DLC? Hell yeah! If it's worth it (brings an actual update which has new content worth of exploring I'll probably buy. I mean there's no need to make it monatized if they make enough with MTX.. That means all you people who don't wanna pay additional after buying the game for 70$, you don't have to. If they don't add MTX they might gonna charge for DLC's..
(all of this is pure speculation ofcourse but think about it).My opinion
I'd buy a monkey with a golden claw as one hand, if it'll sell for 5$ I'll pay up 5.. if it's 20$ I'll pay 20$.. It's about what it's worth it to you as a person.I don't think you should make every item obtainable from playing aswell as buying.
I think there should be a:BUY ONLY -- BUY AND QUEST -- QUEST ONLY
distribution. In this case all players can have a unique outfit:
- Toughest achievements/gears can't be bought.
- Santa's outfit can be quested as well as bought
- The golden glowing parrot with a rainbow trail of dust particles following it when it flies can only be bought
Like to hear your opinion guys and girls! Keep it civil we are one happy family :) See you this weekend on the rough seas!
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@ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
I agree with everything you said, but the last part is really where I stand. You have to strike a balance somewhere.
YES! that's exactly what I mean :D
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@knifelife im aware that progression in SoT is cosmetic. thats why i dont have a problem with the pets only being purchaseable with money. you 100% know what is and what isnt bought with real world money. this seperates the progression of the game from the microtransactions and in doing so, keeps the unique clothing and weapon skins relevant and meaningful
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@djm-xr07 Calling cosmetics in SoT progression is a misnomer that's being repeated due to there being no vertical gear progression. Your progression is your rank with the various Trading Companies, or the other unknown activities that progress (keyword right there) you on the path to becoming a Pirate Legend.
Some cosmetics are unlocked after reaching certain stages in your progression, as marks of achieving that stage, but that doesn't make them the same thing, because none of them are required to progress.
As for the subject at hand, no problem with MTX, DLC etc. Games are a ridiculously cheap form of entertainment, especially compared to most other things we as consumers spend our money on, and unlike most I'm well aware of the high running costs (in addition to the initial production costs) that they incur.
Of course, I won't buy something unless I think it's worth it, none of it is compulsory, as at the end it's just a luxury hobby.
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@oldmansutii Your breakdown on progression is perfect. it helps clarify why MTs will not matter to individual characters. Nothing purchased progresses your rankings within the various factions. Simple enuff'
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Personally I like the idea il get an exclusive skin with my controller. Nothing is worse then paying money for someone to get it for free. I have no problems with micro transations as long as they are fun and do not make a game p2w. However I am a grown adult with money so I can understand frustration for younger players / lower income players.
I think aslong as there is reward for playing and reward for paying for extras its all good. I am hoping my ferryman costume doesnt get made redundant from late game rewards but we shall see. -
@oldmansutii said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
@djm-xr07 Calling cosmetics in SoT progression is a misnomer that's being repeated due to there being no vertical gear progression. Your progression is your rank with the various Trading Companies, or the other unknown activities that progress (keyword right there) you on the path to becoming a Pirate Legend.
Some cosmetics are unlocked after reaching certain stages in your progression, as marks of achieving that stage, but that doesn't make them the same thing, because none of them are required to progress.
As for the subject at hand, no problem with MTX, DLC etc. Games are a ridiculously cheap form of entertainment, especially compared to most other things we as consumers spend our money on, and unlike most I'm well aware of the high running costs (in addition to the initial production costs) that they incur.
Of course, I won't buy something unless I think it's worth it, none of it is compulsory, as at the end it's just a luxury hobby.
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I only hope that the MT are really only cosmetic things and not overly expensive and they keep their word and do not add very little effects that would consequently be p2w :/ I don't have any problem paying more money in MT trust me, I am just afraid they are making half-lies to ease the player base now and maybe earn a ragestorm afterwards.... :(
My fear is born because of Black Desert....pay2play and they said the cash shop has only cosmetic that are not needed/no real advantage...what happened: good effects on the costumes ( one outfit 30 bucks O: )and looting pets (10 bucks each but with an awfull breeding system)that made a HUGE difference in playing and grinding...at the beginning they were not sellable through the market place so if you wanted a loot pet you HAD to pay 10 dollars for one pet :( you could say players were mad as hell -.-
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@shikia-caeleaum I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.
If they are adding pets, a feature A LOT of people were requesting, as a microtransaction, this is not going to end well.Maybe it doesn't really matter now, but when they add them, and then you realize you're gonna have to spend another 30$ for that outfit that looks a lot better than the ones available to purchase for in-game currency, and a pet, i don't think people are going to be happy, because this is straight F2P model bs, with a 60$ price tag.
Pets might not make an impact gameplay wise, but they still have relevance when it comes to social elements of the game, and that is when MT's stops beign "Cosmetic only"
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@darlain said in [Mega Thread] - Microtransactions, DLC, and Games as a Service:
Pets might not make an impact gameplay wise, but they still have relevance when it comes to social elements of the game, and that is when MT's stops beign "Cosmetic only"
I understand that point, but I disagree with it personally. I play games for fun, not to prove "socially" what a blinged-out bad-stern I am. I could honestly care less, as clothing, weapon/item skins and add-ons like pets will have zero impact on my ability to find fun within the game.
I guess for some people that really matters, but I have to ask; Why?
