[Mega Thread] - Safe Zones
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@knightx13 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@avecrux Not if it is treated like leaving the Dark Zone in The Division, where you cannot bring unrecovered caches out with you - chests and other bounty items could be forcibly dropped before you leave the area.
Another option would be to leave from an Outpost via the Shipwright.
@KnightX13 As a player who played a lot of The Division a zone such as as the Dark Zone is a great idea in my opinion because you can always choose between handing in your loot or just leave it where it is and return without anything to the safezone
@ZenZuki great ideas bro! I think it complements well with the dark zone idea @knightx13 posted.
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what about implementing different types of servers ? Say:
RP ( Safe zones protected by Colonial law.... so Sea is fair game)
PVE ("P-p-please ... I just don't like confrontation")
Pirates life for me! (All is fair in Love and Piracy)That way you can offer the option to your gamer and making the gaming experience exactly what they're looking for. Which is one of your headlines and promises ?
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@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@summer-scholar I see and can identify with your point. The only option I am, have been proposing is not being able to be killed. A group can still go aboard a ship and take chests off of it, thus "Pirating" the ship, but what is being done currently in game is abusive un-needed Player Killing. Endless PKing of players. If you read up further in the posts, you will see a more detailed post of mine describing some ideas I propose.
I am just seeking some additional clarity. So for argument sake ...
You and I are a crew. So while we are docked you run out a chest to score, I stay to "Guard" our ship that is still laden with booty (phrasing). While you are away, a rival crew shows up and attempt to board and seize our ill gotten gains.
What is the nature of the conflict you propose without the ability to kill the invaders/defenders? A game of TAG around the ship ? Some sort of mini game? Or do I have to stand on the gang plank and watch them walk around me like a pedestrian only to take the loot regardless ?
I am not nit picking . I realize I don't offer a solve. just trying to understand.
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@kinggzanga
I agree, I would say a huge pirate fort that you can just park your boat outside or inside a HUGE cave. You can’t fire cannons or guns or grab chests.I’m fine with people being able to hide in other person’s ships as it would be hysterical
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@flyingxnimbus93 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@balakp said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Well I am kinda against the safe zone, this game is pirate game, pirates had no safezone.. you are pirate, you should know, there is no safezone, pirates are crominals, so if you are not careful, you can loose your chest on outpost... it could be very stressful if someone starts camping there, but there is other outposts to go or your crew can protect you... pirates are cruel and cheaty, not safeseekers... thats my opinion =))
Matey, a quick google search will show you they did have “safe zones” that are pretty identical to what I and a majority of other people are suggesting, search Tortuga or read a few of the above posts, there were places pirates could go to avoid capture from the Spanish fleets if they were being sought after (think of this as a crew that is griefing and continuously following another crew for an hour or so). Of course this would be abused if said crew has a chest, so you would have to make it so chests could not be taken to these islands, and they would be more of a social hub than safe zone. My problem isn’t getting sunk once and having my treasure stolen, it’s the toxic people on this game that follow you everywhere hellbent on sinking you even if you have no chests. For these people to stop ruining the game would need a function of some sorts to make griefing useless
I do know what the Tortuga is and I agree with somehow doing safezone like Tortuga, but it shouldnt be on outpost or nearby outposts.. you have absolute right about toxic people you described, I hate this game-ruining playing too, but for the other side, this types of players are in every game, you cant avoid them, but okay, they can build something like Tortuga, but this place just cant be on every outpost.. this trade, friendly safezone could be only one or two on whole map, not just on every outpost 😊
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That feeling you get when you are trying to return a chest and other pirates are at the outpost is a rush that most games are unable to provide. I don't know why anyone would want to remove that.
I could maybe get behind a "peaceful" zone where chests cannot be sold and voyages cannot be purchased.
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@balakp said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@flyingxnimbus93 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@balakp said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Well I am kinda against the safe zone, this game is pirate game, pirates had no safezone.. you are pirate, you should know, there is no safezone, pirates are crominals, so if you are not careful, you can loose your chest on outpost... it could be very stressful if someone starts camping there, but there is other outposts to go or your crew can protect you... pirates are cruel and cheaty, not safeseekers... thats my opinion =))
Matey, a quick google search will show you they did have “safe zones” that are pretty identical to what I and a majority of other people are suggesting, search Tortuga or read a few of the above posts, there were places pirates could go to avoid capture from the Spanish fleets if they were being sought after (think of this as a crew that is griefing and continuously following another crew for an hour or so). Of course this would be abused if said crew has a chest, so you would have to make it so chests could not be taken to these islands, and they would be more of a social hub than safe zone. My problem isn’t getting sunk once and having my treasure stolen, it’s the toxic people on this game that follow you everywhere hellbent on sinking you even if you have no chests. For these people to stop ruining the game would need a function of some sorts to make griefing useless
I do know what the Tortuga is and I agree with somehow doing safezone like Tortuga, but it shouldnt be on outpost or nearby outposts.. you have absolute right about toxic people you described, I hate this game-ruining playing too, but for the other side, this types of players are in every game, you cant avoid them, but okay, they can build something like Tortuga, but this place just cant be on every outpost.. this trade, friendly safezone could be only one or two on whole map, not just on every outpost 😊
Yeah completely agree mate, if it’s on every outpost it’ll be too easy to escape someone, whereas if you have to go to a far flung corner of the map it would balance a bit. Of course the ideas are there, it’s just down to RARE to implement them in a fair way
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@summer-scholar
I think a fun idea to alleviate the concern of campers would be to create a zone at this proposed safe island perimeter, which, when you cross it to exit the area, it drops your ship in a random location on the map.
I haven't read all of the posts, so this very well could have already been an existing idea. -
@newbornsatsuma8 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@summer-scholar
I think a fun idea to alleviate the concern of campers would be to create a zone at this proposed safe island perimeter, which, when you cross it to exit the area, it drops your ship in a random location on the map.
I haven't read all of the posts, so this very well could have already been an existing idea.Good input, sailor! If you scroll up and check my OP, there are quite a few potential solutions listed that address this issue including one mirroring your suggestion.
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The easiest, simplest solution I see is making the taverns a no gun/sword zone. Once you walk into a tavern, you're safe. All outposts, all taverns.
If you'll notice, most of the tavern buildings are MUCH bigger than the inside area you can walk around. Open this up, put in some bar games and you're set.
Yes, you can bring chests in and yes you can't get shot, but you better not put that chest down because anyone can take it.
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@qm-ginger-beard said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
For the entire outpost to be a safe zone would, as people have been saying remove risk or intensity of cashing in chests but think of it like this:
You are being chased by another ship and you're heading for an outpost with 5+ chests on board. You reach the outpost and now your safe with 4 of your chests. But the other crew runs along behind you with another (how ever many) of your chests and because it's a safe zone you can't do anything but watch them hand in your chests.
I'd sooner go down with a fight than have to watch people cash in my work for nothing.
Not true.. you can still go in an pirate them, you just cant kill them, meaning you can steal their treasure and turn it in for yourself.
What, most of the pro-safezone advocates want (because I do not speak for all of them), is a place where they cant be needlessly PKed or griefed over and over, not where they are safe to turn in treasure because you cant steal from them... understand what is really being requested here..
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@qm-ginger-beard I have read this thread in its entirety, and i have read most (if not all of) the greifing/harassing/camping and PKing threads dealing with safe-zones. I can, with a pretty sound mind, say that I speak for most (i didn't say all) of the pro safe-zone players, when I say what those players want... a place where players can have some protection (a diminished/decrese or mitigation of) from griefing/harassment/camping and PKing. What is needed is a healthy PvP experience in the game, that doesn't enable toxic players, which in the games current state, does not do, because no protective measures are in place currently.
EDIT: Please do not tell me the option to scuttle and quit and find a new instance, that is not a protective measure nor is it fair. Nor is forcing a player to group, the solo description isn't a means for justification for ganking or griefing, or you should expect "hard mode" it means the player has to do everything on the Sloop alone, vice having a crew to help, but that does make them a prime targets for the griefers/campers and gankers unfortunately...
I would encourage you to read mine, and a few other posts further up in the thread for a more robust understanding of what exactly has been happening. I do not want to keep repeating what most have already posted. :)
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I like that the game has no safe zones, but a social area that the mentioned games, duels etc could take place sounds good. Pirates didn't kill everything they come upon and did socialise with each other.
The problems with me lies with spawn killing and camping then cashing the chest in.
People that wait on your ship until you spawn just to shoot you in the back need to learn gaming etiquette. I understand pirates that are grabbing loot and the enemy spawns back while still searching but when there is nothing and the entire team is killed I don't understand how standing in a corner waiting and shooting as soon as they spawn is even playing a game. There is no scoring, no kill:death ratio, no level grinding, no gold earning and definatly no skill involved. Your a pirate, get in there grab the treasures and get the f outa there.
As for the camping and waiting til someone rocks up with a ship load of gold, again you are not playing a game!
Maybe outposts should be protected by a handful of npc's. If you initiate combat on an outpost you should not be allowed to cash in at that area or use services and the npc's become hostile until you've been to another outpost. -
I quite liked the idea of 'The Continental Hotel' from the movie John Wick. It functions as neutral territory for hired assassins. So there isn't anything special at the hotel that keeps everyone from behaving well and following the rules like tons of guards or anything. It's the fact that if someone does break the rules (eg. start a gunfight) they are branded an "Excommunicado". Basically what happens is, they can't enter the hotel anymore and are hunted by all the assains.
I believe this could be nicely implemented into the game- a fun social island/outpost full of dangerous pirates with their own strict rules and laws. And should anyone break those rules (eg. kill a player), they would become a pirate-outlaw and there could be a bounty on them or something like that.
Other than that, I don't think there should be totally safe safe-zones. Afterall we are pirates and a pirate's life is a dangerous one.
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Safe zones don't seem like a good idea. A much better one would be to eliminate the problems at the outposts by creating a feature out of them like said in one of my posts.
If a chest is stolen, it should be only possible to sell to a special "trading company". Call them outlaws for example. They could have their own outpost island or just hiding somewhere in a ship wreck, cave, dark creepy places... All the outposts of the Outlaws would be far away from normal outposts and if a stolen chest was brought to a normal outpost, it would be rejected by the trader. The Outlaws would have their own ranks and item unlocks (probably weapon skins) to accompany some level milestones just like normal traders. -
alright, to anyone who thinks that the Ship of the Damned is a Safe Zone.
yes, it is safe and no one can kill one another there.
however, the thought of people dying just so they can socialize makes it a safe zone of bad design. this on top of the fact that you are a pale ghost and cant use any equipment and cant show off your stuff as one. all with the fact that its the size of a boat and there are going to be over 100 players on each server. betrayal is possible as well: you can tell another player "hey im friendly, come meet me here!" and just ambush him once he gets there.
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Use the upper section of the tavern as an out of lobby social space with minigames and social crewing. Illiminate the so called grief issue by spawning on boat or on the island near your boat whenever you die, this tied in with scutteling the boat removes spawn killing by moving your spawn point. Finally if you die in one area move the new ship to a much further area from that which they just died in. This will stop the frequent suicide runs to wear down opponents.
Also for those more evil pirates out there, implement a new faction, something like the outlaws or near do wells. This group could give bounties or contracts on the more violent or high earning ships, buy ships for salvage (if you wanted to add hostile take overs) or even run fetch quests (bring an NPC to them for a human trafficking quest) obviously take the fable styled tounge in cheek humor (maybe add fable styled brothels in which a random NPC may blame you for them being there) alternatively you could reunite them witb family by taking them to the correct outpost but that sounds boring.Just spitballing some ideas.
My 2 cents.
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I think there should be a big port city (cities) that is a “safe zone.” To prevent camping, the water around the safe zone would be on a timer- once entering you have a minute to reach shore and vice versa, this would create a big enough zone that would prevent camping and allow a place for socializing/teaming up, gambling, showing off unique trinkets and gear... many possibilities. Fighting would be allowed but it would people would lose reputation if they actually killed someone without challenging them to a duel. This would also be where your ship would respawn to prevent spawn camping.
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@kinggzanga said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
'Safe' Social Zone
This certain zone in question, would not allow the cashing in of chests or any other trade company missions. Nor would this island allow any chest within its safety radius, in order to stop people fleeing and camping with das loot. This island would strictly be a safe place for socialising and games. Maybe a great place to buy better cosmetics and a place to trade with other players. Poker to play and bet against other pirates, put your gold on the line in other mini games against players such as blackjack or some creative twists on mini PvP games. Find a crewmate. Just some island or place in which pirates can just kick it back and relax rather than worry if there ship on port is receiving plentiful of cannonballs to the hull.Personally I feel like the ideal way to implement something like this, would be to add an island that players can travel to in order to socialise. Our very own pirates paradise, a vibrant Tortuga where rival crews can drink grog and new friends can be found. If a player was being griefed, this could be an escape or refuge from those pirates. Seek help in the social hub port town. The other suggestion was making it into an instance which was a good idea, however the main point of this 'safezone' and topic of discussion is to alleviate the congestion at outposts along with griefing and I don't see how it would do that. Placing it in the world as we know would help griefed players and would add more things to do resulting in less congestion at outposts. Having this place in an instance also takes away the romance from a place like this. A well lit port city after a long and successful voyage to travel to in order to spend your gold with more exotic cosmetics and purchasables being here etc. Fellow crews docking in the port, customising their vessels with expensive paint along with buying supplies. A crew of fresh faced sailors about to set sail on their first adventure, not after hearing out tips and tricks from the battle scarred pirate they met, DiscoDarren73 first though! The potential is huge.
As for crews patrolling outside this 'safe' social hub; You simply punish crews that choose to patrol outside the safe zone, whether that is done by the community themselves as a collective destroying the hostile crews or if developers have to add in cannons to keep order outside of the dome. These crews patrolling the border wouldn't be getting treasure either, as this social hub doesn't allow treasure into it's safe domain. If worst comes to worst, scuttle your ship and start from your new island. Another great suggestion was to add a seedy looking merchant in the social hub that would allow players to place a bounty with their own gold, on another pirates head. The bounty hunter who kills said pirate, sails back to the social hub to collect their reward of fine gold! Collectively we can create a solution that pleases and benefits the entire community.
Adding a duel mechanic to this place, to please everybody would be a welcome addition. Simply challenge a pirate to duel, agreeing on an amount of gold for the winner of the duel. It adds abit more excitement into the place and really gives the feel that PvP players want, of a pirates haven such as Tortuga with fistfights and guns shooting. That way players who are there to browse, buy, socialise, earn a small fortune playing poker and drink grog can do so uninterrupted and those there to cause a ruckus and beat a pirate up for there gold, can go about there business too.
This or nothing. Tortuga as a social hub that you MUST TRAVEL TO BY SEA would be fine, especially as a place to find a crew and show off your piratey qualities and accomplishments. But other than that, NO SAFE ZONES. This is a pirate's game made for the pirate's life. Safe zones completely destroy the immersion of the game.
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@kinggzanga I really like the idea of a safe zone, it could be also used to recruit or meet new people, and the countermeasure of that "anticamp" system would be good, offering quest to clear the hostiles could be good, however it would be good that the "law enforcer players" flags themselves to do so, so they cant clear the bandits and then start camping themselves. If the game has (I dont know if its implemented) an option to "raise" a "bounty" imposed by camping players of the safe zone, maybe as a punish at some point of this bounty they will be treated as hostile for a bunch of island and cities, that may be a good countermeasure...
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I think that a lot of people are being put off any of this due to the verbiage "safe zone"! The pvp'rs want none of that, and while I tend to lean more on the pve'r side personally, I don't want "safe" zones in the main play spaces either. But there needs to be something!
What I think most of us really want is simply a SOCIAL zone moreso than a safe zone.
I've suggested an idea above that proposes a social zone while still maintaining the greater zone just as it is! (i.e. no safe zones)
Everyone gets what they want :)
Thoughts?
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@zenzuki Fleets/Guilds could help. Having a group of ships able to protect an island from invaders while they are there doing their business. Implementing a social list where you can call on friends to hop on and help out. I personally like the thought of a NPC fleet of ships that protect a group of islands against pirates who plunder within the territory. Like a "Pirate's Holy Ground." Depending on the size of the map you could make a safe/less safe/danger zones to represent the NPC's inflence over the waters. Or maybe Faction territories where, if you're in good standing with the faction, enemy players will lose reputation with the faction for killing the factions allies. Then NPC's in the territory can attack pirates with notoriety or negative reputation. Maybe pirates can have a bounty put on them that can be claimed by other pirates.
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@zenzuki Ok, here are my thoughts...
Then lets call it a No-Kill zone... doesn't matter the term, for it. What matters is, that a protective measure is implemented into the game where mitigation and reduction of toxic behavior is reduced in and around the central turn in hubs, the Outposts, where most of this behavior is being conducted currently.
I will say it again, for the hard of reading, nobody is asking for the inability for stealing or thieving there, we have been asking for the inability for killing at the Outposts (due to the current griefing/harassment/camping/ganking and PKing which is happening at and around them currently), which in all honesty, isn't that big of a deal due to the ability to still steal treasure, just not kill.
I consider myself reasonable person, so if any of the anti-safe/kill zone people can provide an adequate reason why Outposts should stay a kill area (dont give me its a pirate game reason, or this isn't hellokitty, breaks immersion, or players should group cuz solo is hard mode, you can never get rid of them all... etc. etc. I have already provided adequate reasoning countering why, although all have merit to some degree, the overall games player-base protection from the players who thrive on and who's sole purpose is to grief/harass/camp/gank and PK, promoting healthy healthy PvP vice enabling the toxic PvP takes precedence than all of those, in my humble opinion) because in truth, Outposts are already designed to be a focal point for progression, turn-in's and a social hub (they already have a pub on them...), not a PvP centric area, if you truly look at what the make up of the island has and entails. I will look for another solution to stop the toxic behavior in the game and endorse that fully.
I would encourage those people also to read mine and a few others posts though, before answering this, because we have offered up some rather detailed solutions to this already...
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Rare have already said numerous times though that they don't want any NPC's roaming the seas. Any ships seen on the seas will be "human" manned! So I'm not sure NPC fleets will be a thing.
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@diver0129 because wasting hours of time getting chests and then seeing everything stolen within minutes isnt fun at all.
Its like imagine Monster Hunter and you would have to bring the monster materials back to your HQ and you would get griefed by other players. That would be garbage too.
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For my money, and for everyone who dislikes the idea of a safe zone, I would propose instead the "very unsafe zone" the zone around any shop keeper, in the tavern, within 5 feet of the quest givers, etc...
Pirates don't refrain from attacking people there because safe zones. They don't attack people there because those shop owners deal with pirates all the time, and they are not having you wrecking up things in their shop or screwing with their patrons.
The "safe zone" (very unsafe zone) should be that if you attack someone well you or they are beside (like right beside, not "on the outpost island" but clearly at the shopkeep something like 5 paces or less) the NPC kills you. (or in the tavern period, because spawn point for new players, we don't want you camping that killing people, and neither does the tavern owner, it's bad for business) There's obviously a reason no one is running off with all that gold on the ground around the gold hoarder guy, and it's not because it's a "safe zone". The Order lady has crazy voodoo magic, and you probably can't work the bar at a pirate tavern if you can't murder anyone who gets out of line. These people need to be pretty amazing or the pirates would have just taken their stuff already long ago.
That's just my two doubloons, but I think it would create some needed "safe" area without breaking immersion.
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Really i don't see, that it would be hard to solve this problem, and truly it is one right now.
I like PVP sometimes, but I love doing PVE in an PVP world, I really love the thrill.But toxic play-style, griefers, and campers are no thrill, they are annoying and will bring people to stop playing the game at one point. When I want to get insulted buy angry kiddies I can went out on a backyard playground don't need to spend 70 € on a game, and wasting time to sail around for hours...
Some people say: the community will handle this on their own, but how? This will never work with non persisting servers, because there is no persisting server-community. -There need to be an ingame solution.Safezone outposts sound very boring, in most of the ideas, same counts for: I put up a white flag and so I am invincible...
Why not adding strong NPC guards on some outposts, which attack if somebody pulls a gun. So the people have to think if it worth try to attack there or not.
And one major pirate town with really strong guards, and no "turning-in-npcs", but where people can socialize.So there is only the problem of sea harassment, here another user hat a great idea of player convoys or kind of pirate-hunters.
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@ghroznak said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
I like the idea of having a sort of Tortuga town where you can socialize, drink at the tavern, play minigames with other players (e.g. cards, Liars Dice or other types of games where you bet your gold), as well as other types of activities (pretty sure a brainstorming session regarding activities just like Rare had players suggest different types of cursed chests would bring up a lot of fun stuff).
However, where I deviate from others when it comes to a social hub is in the fact that it's a safe zone.
Why?
In what movie or book have you read about Tortuga, a pirate haven, being safe???
Watch the first "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie when they go to Tortuga. It's gunfire, yelling, drinking, gambling, people fighting eachother. It's everything EXCEPT safe.
The only time I see you should be safe (from others shooting or stabbing you) is if you are doing a minigame like playing Liars Dice with another 3-4 players. You would then be safe from harm from others only because it would be entirely disruptive to the minigame if you kept getting prodded by people not playing it.
In my opinion such minigames should also have the option to attempt to cheat (like you can in the game Blood & Gold), HOWEVER, everyone who is playing against eachother should be able to accuse an opponent of cheating and attack them.
This way the different minigames could end up in a brawl in true pirate fashion.
One thing I would like to see in such a pirate hub though is no option to reload your guns. That is, when you are there you have X shots with your pistol but once they are spent you would have no more ammunition and would have to rely explicitly on your saber (or whichever other melee weapons might be in release).
Bottom line: I would be very disappointed if I sailed into the pirate haven of Tortuga and it was a total safe place where not a single shot was fired or a single punch was thrown.
I like this.