[Mega Thread] - Safe Zones
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@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Just to be clear,
A social hub for player to interact with one another on land, free of PvP conflict...
Not a safe haven for ships and there cargo hold full of treasures...Or if they DO put the faction NPCs on this island, have them give a dramatically reduced reward for using them to turn in. A sort of penalty for taking the easy way out.
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@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@kinggzanga said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas 0/35/45 i believe to balance the first chest gains. Then it grows exponentially from there, but yes, the investment initially isn't very great. What @Neveren is saying, is once you get up in rank, the missions cost more, and to be griefed/PKed, you lost all that and if you are low on money, and can not afford another mission... you are kind of SoL in a way, you have to island hop or wreckage hunt and try to find chest spawns... So I can identify with him, because once you rank up your Pirate levels, the lower level mission, aren't available any longer... So, yes, it can be problematic, especially if players were continually being hunted and lost all their money...
Still the payout is significantly higher then the amount of money invested, where as with the higher tier voyages you end up digging 3 to 4 treasures from a single island and can have a mix of up to 8 maps and riddles, resulting you return with a cargo hold packed with treasures, ranging from common, rare and mystical ones...
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
What, we have been advocating for, a safe-zone to mitigate another players ability misuse, overuse or abuse the killing mechanic in game, in and around the Outpost (which is seemingly rippling outward now), to facilitate a griefing/harassing/camping or Pking atmosphere for players who are trying to use the only progression/cosmetic/money turn in focal points currently in game. It's a protection measure from toxic behavior only, not to detract from intended healthy game play.
I clear understand why people want a safe zone and I'll not object to a zone (or zones depending on the world size), were one can spend money on upgrades in shops and vendors, hang out in a tavern, get drunk, puke on people for all I care and have general fun without any PvP conflict. In short a safe zone for social interaction.
However, as soon as a NPC is added to those safe zones, where one can cash in there valuable cargo, it will become the place to flee to as means to avoid conflict, for that what the safe zone offers a zone where conflict isn't possible, those exact zone will also need to render interaction a ships cargo not possible, for else it can still be stolen etc etc...
This is a merged thread, but sadly way to many focus and cry outs are focused on getting a safe zone where one can safely cash in there treasure and that's the core component for the risk/reward and tensions other crews on the horizon brings to this game.
Exactly this, I agree. That's why the island I and many others have suggested, is plausible.
Just to be clear,
A social hub for player to interact with one another on land, free of PvP conflict...
Not a safe haven for ships and there cargo hold full of treasures...YES! Please read my previous posts. All the concerns you have, are addressed. However it doesn't have to be void of PvP, a duel mechanic can be added like I've said previously to please both sides. The player who wins the duel, wins gold in a wager.
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@balakp said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Well I am kinda against the safe zone, this game is pirate game, pirates had no safezone.. you are pirate, you should know, there is no safezone, pirates are crominals, so if you are not careful, you can loose your chest on outpost... it could be very stressful if someone starts camping there, but there is other outposts to go or your crew can protect you... pirates are cruel and cheaty, not safeseekers... thats my opinion =))
Matey, a quick google search will show you they did have “safe zones” that are pretty identical to what I and a majority of other people are suggesting, search Tortuga or read a few of the above posts, there were places pirates could go to avoid capture from the Spanish fleets if they were being sought after (think of this as a crew that is griefing and continuously following another crew for an hour or so). Of course this would be abused if said crew has a chest, so you would have to make it so chests could not be taken to these islands, and they would be more of a social hub than safe zone. My problem isn’t getting sunk once and having my treasure stolen, it’s the toxic people on this game that follow you everywhere hellbent on sinking you even if you have no chests. For these people to stop ruining the game would need a function of some sorts to make griefing useless
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@treblucfayle said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Just to be clear,
A social hub for player to interact with one another on land, free of PvP conflict...
Not a safe haven for ships and there cargo hold full of treasures...Or if they DO put the faction NPCs on this island, have them give a dramatically reduced reward for using them to turn in. A sort of penalty for taking the easy way out.
They keep 75% to 80%... Turning your 5 gold coin investment in a possible 10 gold profit... Maintaining the peace is expensive business...
Jokes aside, No...I'd rather not see any NPC's to cash in rewards, for player will still see it as mean to make some profit and preventing any aggressors from stealing it and this will stil have a negative impact on PvP, for the PvP orientated player interested in stealing your cargo will feel cheated, for there is this game mechanic preventing them from killing you and stopping you from cashing in your treasure...
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@kinggzanga i think thats a great idea. i originally was opposed to any type of safe zone, but i think something like this could totally work. my only concern is the island might have to be pretty big to have enough room for so many ships to be docked at the same time
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@mistavanvleck said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@kinggzanga i think thats a great idea. i originally was opposed to any type of safe zone, but i think something like this could totally work. my only concern is the island might have to be pretty big to have enough room for so many ships to be docked at the same time
My suggestion would be in the top left of the current world, out of the way. I agree that the port would have to be large, but considering four to five boats can anchor up at an outpost I don't see it being too much of an issue. Thank you for the feedback and sharing your concerns sailor!
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@kinggzanga
I like the way death is managed in Elite: Dangerous, if you lose your ship you have to pay an insurance but back or you only get the basic ship back. Elite does have a loan system for this which automatically takes 10% of your reward as you get them to pay back the loan and does have a maximum loan value as it is designed to help out new players. -
Safe Zones? Are you kidding me?
The Game is called Sea of Thieves. Not Sea of Babies.
Playing the Beta I've dug up treasure, stolen treasure, and lost treasure. Nothing is more exciting than digging that chest up and looking behind your back to see if you are going to get jumped or not. I've even had enemy pirates help me find treasure. The same goes for turning it in. All you have to do is reach the vendor and hit the F key or X button.
When you start floating the idea of safe zones to settle the crying of people who do not understand the idea of the game then you begin the long downward spiral of slowly ruining the game. What will be next? Safe spawn timers where the person who just spawned can kill you but you can't kill them? Areas of the enemy ship you cannot hide in? Next thing people will want is a PvE server to play Sea of "Thieves" without any.It's a Pirate game! There is no honor among thieves.
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For my vote, i say keep everything PVP like the beta was. It was annoying some times but you should always be worried. I would add 1 thing though. I think that people should get bounties over their heads for each ship they sink, person they kill, and chest they steal. When it gets high enough, maybe make their sail a pirate logo (which would be awesome for both the person who gets it and everybody around to see!). It would also be cool if you could get a revenge award. If somebody kills you and you kill them back, you get an extra reward of some point.
I don't want a full on reputation system, but i think some level of that could be fun.
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I would like to see the PvP element stay as is. I am not against a social hub, like a pirate island as I mentioned earlier in the thread. Here are some of my other thoughts on helping people who want more of a PvE game:
There is a distinct disadvantage for 1 and 2 people ships. Here is a couple of suggestions to equalize the field:
- Reputation, like light and dark side in SW, good actions will move you to say a title of Honorable Pirate and bad actions will move you toward Ruthless Pirate.
- Create a vendor to join a navy or mercenaries guild/pirate hunters. Instead of maps to locate treasure you can buy information to locate the most ruthless pirates. The more ruthless, the larger the payout.
- Create a frigate class of vessel that allows for use only by military or mercenaries. Allow for a 6 man crew and make it a 12 gunner.
- Allow an alliance function where a small crew ship can request the support of mercenary or military ship. Based on the reputation of the military or mercenary captain will determine how much the treasure is split.
- Lastly a 10-15 timer where you cannot attack the same person you just did after they respawn. It is one thing to be a ruthless pirate and it is another thing to be a jerk.
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You know how it is. You get to a outpost... rush as fast as you can to the gold collector to get your reward, then see a few ships approaching, so you bolt as fast as you can to avoid a gun fight. This destroys the community and world building aspect. The outposts are so empty because being there is dangerous due to them being central hubs for incoming ships, all of whom are hostel. If the outposts were places where you're safe and guns can't be fired, I think people would be inclined to stick around, meet new players, build a community. People who get together and head out on quests together in multiple ships. Maybe you can have card games in the bar players can play at a table and other fun things to do. Target practice. Whatever. The more I think about it, I'm more on the side of outposts being safe zones and feel it would greatly improve the community involvement and world building, and make the Outposts feel more alive.
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@hourlywhisper25 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
I find the idea of the safe zone really interesting, we need this kind of place to build a friendly community and have fun with others pirates.
But this place should not have any outposts which allow people to sell them chests there, it will ruin the PvP part of the game.Ha-haar! Another scurvy sailor on the same wavelength! Check out my previous posts above, a lot of us have the same opinion. I think it would give you an insight into how a place like this might function.
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Exactly and it would be a great place for new player to team up with others, allowing them to create a kind of small fleet and don't be rushed by experienced pirates.
It's a win/win for every one :
- new players will feel more secure and don't be sink in 20sec.
- experienced players will have a more challenging and satisfying sea fight.
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what he said. especially the part where chests and other loot cannot be taken to the island. add a faction to the game that makes sense of this, such as a pirate government that runs the island and "confiscates" any supplies of interest to them; such as treasure chests and gunpowder barrels, but not ammo and food, of course.
only problem is the possibility of people camping this island, so place it on a different server.
more suggestions:
- allow players to accept new voyages from all factions on this island.
- allow players to engage in 1v1 brawls: send a "invite to brawl" to a another player, player accepts, countdown starts, and they are allowed to deal damage to one another until one is knocked down.
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The whole idea of having safe zones makes me sick to my stomach. My biggest concern is half my crews profits will indefinitely be from sinking ships. So is it right to take away our margins by allowing these players to sit AFK for 30-60 minutes or more? Problem being persistent chests and limited player slots per lobby.
This being said, I'm ok with a safe zone is if it is not an outpost, and they're forced to turn in or drop chests before entering the safe zone. Then I really wouldn't mind. However, I'd rather something more functional and not tied to game lobbies, such as a social hub. Perhaps it could be used to gather crewmates without needing to use the alpha club or forums.
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@mysticdragon297 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
what he said. especially the part where chests and other loot cannot be taken to the island. add a faction to the game that makes sense of this, such as a pirate government that runs the island and "confiscates" any supplies of interest to them; such as treasure chests and gunpowder barrels, but not ammo and food, of course.
only problem is the possibility of people camping this island, so place it on a different server.
more suggestions:
- allow players to accept new voyages from all factions on this island.
- allow players to engage in 1v1 brawls: send a "invite to brawl" to a another player, player accepts, countdown starts, and they are allowed to deal damage to one another until one is knocked down.
Great opinions and input! Most of the concerns you have, have been covered by me and many others. Especially regarding crews patrolling outside the zone. 1v1 duel mechanics were also mentioned, with a wager being placed before hand between the two pirates. Great to see this thread full of such constructive comments.
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@sour-patch-mcoy said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
The whole idea of having safe zones makes me sick to my stomach. My biggest concern is half my crews profits will indefinitely be from sinking ships. So is it right to take away our margins by allowing these players to sit AFK for 30-60 minutes or more? Problem being persistent chests and limited player slots per lobby.
This being said, I'm ok with a safe zone is if it is not an outpost, and they're forced to turn in or drop chests before entering the safe zone. Then I really wouldn't mind. However, I'd rather something more functional and not tied to game lobbies, such as a social hub. Perhaps it could be used to gather crewmates without needing to use the alpha club or forums.
I completely agree on the matter of outposts. Great to hear! Although I don't agree that this social hub should be in an instance of its own, I do respect your opinion. If you would like to know my preference on how this could be added into the game, I've posted above. Have a fine day sailor!
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We definitely need to do something about this situation because it is clear that there is too many instances of it happening.
While a "safe zone" can take the fun out of the idea of a pirate game, we do well to remember that outposts were likely inhabited by a local "law enforcement" of sorts. I'm not saying you cannot be attacked while on the island but should a crew try they should have to face some sort of consequences. A bounty system would be interesting to implement if they were successful in their attack, a form of revenge for griefing.
But having one outpost as a Central Hub for players would be great that could be considered a "safe/no violence zone", especially for the idea of just socializing. Maybe even Rare could host events like Timed Quests for Crews from the Hub. For example: You all start at the Hub island and must hunt down a specific treasure with limited information. Should someone find it, they need to deliver it safely back, of course being a pirating game they are open quarry for anyone to take it for themselves in the Open Sea but are safe when they reach the Central Hubs waters.
But regarding players trying to steal your treasures at outposts, if the Hub is still a traditional outpost where you can cash in your gold, it should give less loot than one that is considered "unsafe". More Risk = More Rewards.
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@motherflame said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
But having one outpost as a Central Hub for players would be great. Maybe even Rare could host events like Timed Quests for Crews from the Hub. For example: You all start at the Hub island and must hunt down a specific treasure with limited information. Should someone find it, they need to deliver it safely back, of course being a pirating game they are open quarry for anyone to take it for themselves in the Open Sea but are safe when they reach the Central Hubs waters.
Wow, awesome idea! That would be a great weekly community event. Good to see so many people getting behind this idea of a social hub, a grand port city for rare purchasables, mini games and to socialise.
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@kinggzanga Your idea with safe zones is definitely something that needs to be addressed. However, I think we're both thinking about this too hard.
Having a safe zone in a biome would break the immersion of being a pirate. You can't go and raid docked ships in this particular area in the open world. Though it's not really ethical do so, there are definitely going to be people that want to just because they can, regardless if ships have anything on them; because pirates.
However, I think there may be a solution. What if the devs just created a separate area that is a safe zone with just a few islands with everything you mentioned that should be included? Players can sail to this area, zoning them out of the biome and into the safe zone. This would eliminate the need to force a safe zone in every map, so that every biome is designed how the game was intended: with maximum piracy. Players leaving the safe zone area would be spawned in at a random outpost within the biome. Of course, there should be some balancing and playtesting done to deter players from camping the entrance. Perhaps it can be something similar to sailing off the edge of the map if you're too close for too long? Maybe there can be an NPC at each outpost that will take you there if your ship is free of loot? Regardless, creating safe zones in the world would be a difficult task, and may take away from the nature of the game. That's why I think it's best to separate the two entirely.
The true problem here is trying to balance immersion with quality of life. Should the devs take away from immersion by creating an immortality bubble? Or should they put it in for a higher quality of life? It's difficult to decide. Though I think the best middle ground is to keep the biomes untouched in regards to safe zones, and create a different biome entirely for the safe zone.
In regards to your comment about crew sizes, I can only see this game being truly difficult for solo players. Manning a sloop by yourself isn't easy, and it's not designed to be. Playing in a 2-man crew with my friend is what I prefer, and we do pretty well for ourselves (sank 5 galleons and 11 sloops without being sunk in one session). So it's very possible to be successful in any size ship so long as you have enough skill and wits, and going solo requires pirates to have exceptional quantities of these. The game is about risk vs. reward. Choosing a 2-man crew forces you to depend on one other person. Going by yourself forces you to depend on yourself. The risk is greater with smaller crews, but you can control more aspects of your adventure and streamline tasks more effectively which may lead to great rewards. This was the case with my 2-man sloop experiences. I find that sailing on the galleon with 3-4 other players tends to slow down progression since everyone has something they want to do. This can lead to great times, especially in battles against other galleons, and there's little risk since there's more players that can take care of the ship; but the reward may be small because things can move slowly due to the wants of everyone on deck. I find that it's much easier to control battles playing on a smaller ship since you can control the amount of resources you're expending to a greater degree. There were many times that a galleon ran out of cannonballs while we still had a large stock because we made our shots count. This aspect heavily contributed to our success. We micromanaged our resources and used them efficiently. This can be done on solo ships as well, but is by far much more difficult to do so. Sometimes running is all you can do, and I found that the solo ships that we did sink decided to fight rather than run more often than not.
The game isn't balanced for solo players, and it's not meant to be. It said on the button to select a solo ship that it's exceptionally hard. The devs purposely made it difficult. The odds are inherently stacked against you. It wouldn't make much sense for every crew size to be on an equal playing field. The galleon has more guns and crew members but is cumbersome. The sloop is agile and smaller, but has a quarter of the firepower with less crew members and slower at full sail. In theory, a galleon should win in most cases. But it truly comes down to the synergy of the crew and their ability. Solo players aren't exempt from this rule, and it holds a special place for those players that are daring enough to go alone. Essentially, going solo is "hardcore mode".
But I digress.
What do you think about separate zones for regular play and social hub?
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@toastchoppa
I can definitely see the advantages and practicality of your idea, I understand entirely. For me though, it breaks immersion. I know a 'safe' social hub doesn't exactly sound immersive, but sailing after a long voyage to spend gold on better exotic items, rather than instance out and back in sounds much more natural. Plus no loading screen. There has to be a place that enables new players to learn the mechanics and understand the game undistracted. I feel the romance and appeal of having a living, breathing city within the map that players sail to, out of the way of any traffic lanes is too much a good thing to pass up on. We have all seen the messy social hubs, with absolutely zero character and personality in CoD: WWII and Destiny. This can be so much more.
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I still do not read ONE positive thing about having a safezone, ((a place for to meet the players? the outpost bars are very good for that, a place to make duels? (not very pve this idea) why not on boats too? Are you tired of being killed multiple times? ask for a change on respawn times, respawn places etc)).
All the games that have of safezones, have undergone abuses, quote me only one game where a safezone did not destroy the game.
I do not really understand you. -
@faramous To be quite honest, I don't think it should be more complicated than it has to be. If there are four Outposts, two should be considered "safe". A larger radius surrounding the outpost's waters is also probably a good idea. My idea of how it'd work would be that once you're inside, you just don't take damage from ships outside of the area, and you cannot shoot your cannons. Once you're outside, you're fair game.
Many people said, "wouldn't that just make people stay just outside the border?" No, not really, considering there are other ships that choose to do the same, so why not attack them?
I think it's fine having these zones. Some days, people just don't feel like engaging in PvP, and that's alright. Other days, that's all we want to do. That's fine, too! Either way, the fact remains that PvP is a core system in SoT and once you leave the safe zone, you're fair game. You can't stay there forever.
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@binbasher Like that we will see all the boats arrive at full speed, crashing on the island (not serious they have no damage) it will be beautiful to see, and to be serene to sell the chests (since one will not be able to die) . so why take the risk of going to the other outpost that will be risky?
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@kinggzanga said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@mysticdragon297 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
what he said. especially the part where chests and other loot cannot be taken to the island. add a faction to the game that makes sense of this, such as a pirate government that runs the island and "confiscates" any supplies of interest to them; such as treasure chests and gunpowder barrels, but not ammo and food, of course.
only problem is the possibility of people camping this island, so place it on a different server.
more suggestions:
- allow players to accept new voyages from all factions on this island.
- allow players to engage in 1v1 brawls: send a "invite to brawl" to a another player, player accepts, countdown starts, and they are allowed to deal damage to one another until one is knocked down.
Great opinions and input! Most of the concerns you have, have been covered by me and many others. Especially regarding crews patrolling outside the zone. 1v1 duel mechanics were also mentioned, with a wager being placed before hand between the two pirates. Great to see this thread full of such constructive comments.
than can you create a "suggestions" list on your first post in the mega-thread? and list the suggestions weve made so far?
you are the first post, after all. so the devs will see your's first.
here are a few more suggestions(if not mentioned already):
- an intimidating pirate government that runs the island (specifically the ones that "confiscate" loot before entering the island)
- more than one of the same shop. specifically ones that have different clothing styles, weapon types, and equipment types (for example, a music shop, royal relics shop, gentlemen's wear, etc).
- faction guilds/HQ
- lifelike NPCs, such as beggars, drunks, singers, brawlers, etc.
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@kinggzanga Now this a good discussion. I can see the appeal of having a social zone seamlessly integrated into the world, and that's something I can definitely get on board with. However, how would we stop players from griefing others? I'm still not sure about the immunity bubble though. Perhaps the island should have NPC guards that fire on offensive ships, and notifications to players that their ship has been hit?
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@kinggzanga I'm all for a social safe zone, as long as the protection comes from NPC's and players. I don't want a no damage zone or anything like that, instead there should be guards that sniped and bombarded anyone who engaged in PvP combat within the zone.
I like that there's no chest allowed, it also prevent people from using it as a cheap escape, but if people are hunted, the island should be like Thieves Haven, 3 or 4 parts of an island, connected with bridges, high enough for any ship to sail under, with a harbour/town in the middle, so people can escape to any side, and there should be enough room between the island, so you don't bump in to other ships and take haul damage.
I would prefer it to be an island on the map, you can sail to without a loading screen, but if there aren't more players per server on release, it makes more sense to makes it an instance.
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@mysticdragon297 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@kinggzanga said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@mysticdragon297 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
what he said. especially the part where chests and other loot cannot be taken to the island. add a faction to the game that makes sense of this, such as a pirate government that runs the island and "confiscates" any supplies of interest to them; such as treasure chests and gunpowder barrels, but not ammo and food, of course.
only problem is the possibility of people camping this island, so place it on a different server.
more suggestions:
- allow players to accept new voyages from all factions on this island.
- allow players to engage in 1v1 brawls: send a "invite to brawl" to a another player, player accepts, countdown starts, and they are allowed to deal damage to one another until one is knocked down.
Great opinions and input! Most of the concerns you have, have been covered by me and many others. Especially regarding crews patrolling outside the zone. 1v1 duel mechanics were also mentioned, with a wager being placed before hand between the two pirates. Great to see this thread full of such constructive comments.
than can you create a "suggestions" list on your first post in the mega-thread? and list the suggestions weve made so far?
you are the first post, after all. so the devs will see your's first.
here are a few more suggestions(if not mentioned already):
- an intimidating pirate government that runs the island (specifically the ones that "confiscate" loot before entering the island)
- more than one of the same shop. specifically ones that have different clothing styles, weapon types, and equipment types (for example, a music shop, royal relics shop, gentlemen's wear, etc).
- faction guilds/HQ
- lifelike NPCs, such as beggars, drunks, singers, brawlers, etc.
I have been doing so and will continue to add suggestions by fellow pirates on this hub and how to better it. Thanks for being so productive and positive sailor!
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I feel there should be NO safe zones anywhere in this game. I do feel that there should be a large island were players can meet do play mini games free of people cashing things in. The island would have games that would allow you to put your hard earned coin up for grabs if someone wins a game, I think that would be enough of an enticement to call sailors in and prevent them from killing everyone. The only thing that would need to be put in place would be a 'cannot kill player while in mini game' rule. After the mini game ends and you feel they stole your gold by cheating, shoot him/her in the face!
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