[Mega Thread] - Safe Zones
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@sidious8888 I don't think the "waiters" would manage to stop us in time from breaking through to the safe zone.
Better them camping a safe zone boundary than camping the one person you can sell a chest to.
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@summer-scholar I feel like, if there weren't any safe zones, you would have those people just spawn camping the outposts and waiting for people to run their chests in to sell them. I suggest safe zones to be implemented near outposts or either another spot to sell chests, but for a lower cost, maybe? What do you guys think?
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@neveren "you don't think ?" you think bad, and for moment on this map, there are many place for sell chest, there is not only one seller.
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@flyingxnimbus93 good points I respect your well put opinion (even if I don’t agree) i respect you not raging at me also thank you
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@sidious8888 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@neveren "you don't think ?" you think bad, and for moment on this map, there are many place for sell chest, there is not only one seller.
This is not what we are talking about here @Sidious8888. What most of the safe-zone advocates are for, is, the mitigation and reduction of the needless over abundance greifing and player killing that is happening at the Outposts centered around the turn in sites. I do not think, that any of us mind if you steal our treasure, that's Pirating, and in the spirit of the game, but not what is the main focus of this thread. What the focus is, the toxic repetitive needless Pking and griefing that is happening which is rippling out into the game, not focused on stealing treasure, but bent on murder only or harassment of players. That is what the safe zone is trying to mitigate, not the ability to steal treasure, but the ability to endlessly and needlessly murdering other players.. The counter to this is, well just scuttle your ship and move servers.. Why? Why should any player HAVE to do that due to a toxic player? Yes, we understand that there will always be players like that in a game, however, there should be protective measures in every game to help mitigate the abilities of those types of players to navigate in the game, not enhance them... and THAT is what we are asking for.
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There is going to be a problem with players camping other ships and killing over and over sailors when they resurrect from the dead. Some players will file this under harassment.
There needs to be either some type of option of where you and your ship resurrect or it automatically removes an enemy player from the ship (if you are playing single man). Or some other concept.......
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Well, after so many hours in Alpha and Beta tests, I think I'm slowly changing my mind.
On first, I was totally against. I was supporter of going fully rogue. Anywhere, anytime, just be on Your guard. However, I slowly think this is not the greatest solution anymore.
This is something totally different, if another crew can catch me on the sea, board my ship, kill me and steal my booty. Something totally different, if they go extra cheesy mode of sitting on the Outpost island, with scoped rifles, shooting people who just arrived from their voyage.
First option - I totally understand and admire. If You beat me on the sea, You earned Your Pirate rights, feel free to take Your hard earned prize.
Second one - that's utter b/s. This should be absolutely, absolutely forbidden.Damn, even real Pirates did not fight each other like this.
Therefore, I think we should have something similar to system which already exists in Elite: Dangerous, where ports are a safe zones. If You make it to the pier, You should be safe. Well, kind of "safe". Players should be able to open fire on their discretion, but they should be also aware that it comes with consequences.
Opened fire to a ship that's parked in the harbour? Outpost cannons will response.
Attacked somewhere on the island? Local milita will response with a risk, that if they suceed, You don't go to Ferry of the Damned, to continue Your crimes attempt - You go to Island's brig for f.e. 5 minutes.At least some of the "main" outposts. Maybe there could be few with less security forces (no cannons guarding the harbour? No militia in the city?). To make them more attractive, they could provide better payour or better missions f.e.
That would force player to do COMPETITIVE PvP. Spotting ships on the sea. Chasing them down and boarding. Like a real pirates. If You can't do that, and only way of stealing someone's booty is by killing him when he is defenseless with both hand holding his chests on the island. You're not a pirate. You're just cheesy, little s**m.
Absolutely no safe zones on the sea.
Auto-response "Safe Zones" for anyone attacked on the island, or with close to it (100 meters from the shoreline?)
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The biggest selling point of this game is the immersion. The idea that you're a pirate in this pirate world is key. If you implement areas where the laws seen in the rest of the game suddenly do not apply, that immersion is broken immediately. And yeah, you're always going to have little things that pull you out of the immersion (I would argue that showing the island names on approach do this) but the fewer points where the immersion is broken, the better. There's a purity to this game in its current state (after the final day of the beta) and while I'm excited to see the direction it goes, I hope the direction is not one that actively seeks more breaking of the immersion factor of the game, which to me is a huge selling point.
Feasibly, a "safe zone" could be implemented with guards that would kill you if you attacked another player, but A. that would still not be a true safe zone, and B. I would argue that this solution would be worse than just a big bubble where nobody could attack, because it would break the immersion and be ineffective at preventing camping. There will be camping in this game one way or another. I've been camped, and while it can be frustrating, there's already a mechanism to get out of it. And yeah, players guarding outposts making it impossible to dock and turn in loot will be difficult, but there are a lot of outposts. I really don't want to see the integrity of the world compromised in order to prevent some frustration.
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@summer-scholar said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
I don't think there should be safe zones in the game. Any safe zone will have a boundary that can be camped so the "problem" would still be there anyway.
Yes, but maybe this boundary will make the important difference?
It's much harder to earn Your trophies on the sea, and it's cheap and cheesy to just ambush kill anyone already on the island.
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It would be cool a safezone with with minigames (dice, cards, etc), challenging option for a duel, and other interesting things for pirates. However, many people complain that it opens the possibility of someone running away. What could help resolve this would be the rule to enter would be not to be carrying any chests or something like that. So, if the ship was being hunted, they would both miss nothing. Maybe this is a way to please everyone.
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Adding Safe Outposts would ruin the sense of tension and excitement that this game does so well.
If they can see you, you can see them. Watching streams, the people who got punished the most were playing with their head in the sand, not paying attention to their surroundings or making a lot of mistakes while sailing.
That does not mean the system doesnt need tweaking. I think it does. Crews Ships respawning to close to each other etc....
I am however, in favor of a safe zone that aloud people to meet up with others and play mini-games. This would be an area where turning in chests and other voyages would not be allowed. But simply a place meet new people and relax.
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@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@sidious8888 By avoiding conflict do you mean simply sailing away from your pursuers until either you or they get bored of chasing you? I don't consider 20+ minutes of cat and mouse chasing interesting or fun.
That's part of the game, living the pirate live isn't easy, with dangers lurking along the horizon.
@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@sidious8888 No, but I can cash in my loot and then scuttle my ship and spawn somewhere else away from the enemy ship
And this is exactly what I wish to avoid...
PvP suddenly becomes only ship clashing with one another, when both parties have little to no risk of loosing anything of real value and would there be valuable cargo on board, one would only need to sail away, outlast and focus on repairs until they reach nearest safe zone, cash in there cargo and only then possibly be interested in conflict, for they no longer risk loosing there cargo.
And as you so gracefully point out, you will just scuttle the ship, re-spawn else were and repeat.
In short, you don't enjoy the risk of carrying valuable loot on board and loosing it to others players who attempt to steal it and that ironically is the the core element where this game rest upon. Your valuable cargo, isn't your until you sell it, risk and reward, you will have to work for it and not just sailing to an island digging it up and sailing to the nearest outpost, avoiding conflict is part of this game and add's to the difficulty.
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I think that we should have SafeZones, but "not that safe"...
And multiple of them...So like, 3 or 4 Islands with Guards... that protect players...
but the guards can Die u.u
One of the main things i like in the game is the "roleplay".. so please, dont make a Safe island where you cant kill , because the guys just are untargetable...Make guards , For sure LOT stronger than you, that will shoot you down if you shoot someone...
But!!!! i want to be abble to kill guards if i group with like, 10 / 20 other pirates (Let players make their own events xD)So yep, I want "safe zones" .. but still, "not that safe"
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@prybar-bas which would all be fine if we didn't have to pay to undertake a voyage. I wouldn't mind having my treasure stolen if I didn't already have a financial investment in it. Other crews getting a full payout from chests I have paid to go collect seems like an unbalanced scenario.
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@flyingxnimbus93 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@superiorewe4833 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@flyingxnimbus93 good points I respect your well put opinion (even if I don’t agree) i respect you not raging at me also thank youNo of course, thank you for accepting it as my opinion and not flat out what this game should do. I like this game and really think (personally) a feature like this could be beneficial especially if we on both sides of the argument put forward constructive criticism. This is what I want from this kind of thread, to challenge others ideas and to in turn come up with a solution we can all (kind of) agree on lol.
Thanks for keeping it civil also my dude!
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In order to increase crew to crew interaction I think Outposts should be "safe" zones. In the sense that if someone uses violence against a player or there ship in a outpost area the offender would get a bounty on their head as well as some kind of marker on all players map tables to indicate their position. This would both encourage communication between crews as well as add a bounty hunter type play style. I think that the bounty should increase per offense, and that the marker indicating the offenders position should refresh its position over a set time instead of constantly showing the current position of the offender (Thus making players that are going after the bounty have to track and search).
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@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@sidious8888 By avoiding conflict do you mean simply sailing away from your pursuers until either you or they get bored of chasing you? I don't consider 20+ minutes of cat and mouse chasing interesting or fun.
That's part of the game, living the pirate live isn't easy, with dangers lurking along the horizon.
@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@sidious8888 No, but I can cash in my loot and then scuttle my ship and spawn somewhere else away from the enemy ship
And this is exactly what I wish to avoid...
PvP suddenly becomes only ship clashing with one another, when both parties have little to no risk of loosing anything of real value and would there be valuable cargo on board, one would only need to sail away, outlast and focus on repairs until they reach nearest safe zone, cash in there cargo and only then possibly be interested in conflict, for they no longer risk loosing there cargo.
Check out my previous posts, I have a possible solution that addresses your concerns.
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@thebostonbean I was thinking of perhaps when a ship is sunk you have to pay for a new one and select where you would want it to be docked, like marking the map as your home port. But you would have to pay gold for the ship to be spawned somewhere other than your home port, and pay even extra goods for it to be stocked with cannonballs, bananas, and wood. Your ship got sunk in the north east and your home port is in the south west? Then you better think if those captains chests were worth the gold cost of spawning the ship up north stocked with some lumps of lead.
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@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas which would all be fine if we didn't have to pay to undertake a voyage. I wouldn't mind having my treasure stolen if I didn't already have a financial investment in it. Other crews getting a full payout from chests I have paid to go collect seems like an unbalanced scenario.
I see your point, I do, might I offer that this for thought, because we need to tread carefully here, and please, don't misunderstand me either, there is a fine line between healthy PvP, Pirating in the spirit of what the game intends, the pressure and stress of taking up that voyage, going out and getting that treasure making acquiring that good haul and turning it in, with the risk of being Pirated, which IS the risk/reward the game intends, the healthy PvP we are trying to encourage and promote here. Where you get Pirated, your haul taken, and then you are left alone to regroup and set sail again.
VS.
What, we have been advocating for, a safe-zone to mitigate another players ability misuse, overuse or abuse the killing mechanic in game, in and around the Outpost (which is seemingly rippling outward now), to facilitate a griefing/harassing/camping or Pking atmosphere for players who are trying to use the only progression/cosmetic/money turn in focal points currently in game. It's a protection measure from toxic behavior only, not to detract from intended healthy game play.
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@neveren said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas which would all be fine if we didn't have to pay to undertake a voyage. I wouldn't mind having my treasure stolen if I didn't already have a financial investment in it. Other crews getting a full payout from chests I have paid to go collect seems like an unbalanced scenario.
Let me remind you that you start with no money, you can obtain voyages for nothing, zero costs, zero investment and zero risk, you can repeat doing them indefinitely if you like.
Anything beyond that point is risk and reward, you invest a whopping ..cough .. cough.. 5 gold coins on an early voyage, a very risky investment and this voyage can reward you with 8 to 10 times as much as a bare minimum, assuming you managed to overcome all dangers along the way and cash it in...
And why is it unbalanced, that others are able to steal treasure of a voyage you payed for? Rare balanced that out by allowing everybody, including you to do the exact same thing. Go look for other ships to steal treasures from, but you will find out there is also some risk involved in this profession and that it also cost fair amount time and effort to master...
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@prybar-bas 0/35/45 i believe to balance the first chest gains. Then it grows exponentially from there, but yes, the investment initially isn't very great. What @Neveren is saying, is once you get up in rank, the missions cost more, and to be griefed/PKed, you lost all that and if you are low on money, and can not afford another mission... you are kind of SoL in a way, you have to island hop, wreckage hunt and try to find chest spawns, or Pirate (if the player is comfortable with that)... So I can identify with him, because once you rank up your Pirate levels, the lower level mission, aren't available any longer... So, yes, it can be problematic (not unsolvable though), especially if players were continually being hunted and lose all their money...
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With the current set-up shown during this beta, it's entirely possible to spend all your gold on a voyage and get plundered by another crew on the way to turn it in. Meaning you have no way to buy a new voyage, and your time was basically wasted.
You would either have to randomly explore and hopefully find a random chest, or join a random matchmaking crew and do whatever voyage they have just to buy one for yourself.
Might not be so bad if you got faction gains (and maybe a small amount of gold) just for completing the voyage, and didn't require the chest turn in. Chests could be a bonus, but the voyage itself should award something IMO.
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@neveren If you don't think being chased is fun. Turn and fight. If you are being chased by a Galleon for 20 minutes and you are in a sloop. Then something is wrong . You should be able to lose a Galleon or make them run a ground in 5 or 10 min. It can't make the turns a sloop can. If you are being chased by the same kind of ship that you are in. Then that's what this game is for. Fighting other crews. Maybe try and negotiate over chat. Probably won't work. Or run quickly by an outpost and jump out with your chest. Leaving your boat to sail on. Turn it in while the other boat chases your empty one. There are so many things you can do to avoid evade or defeat other pirates. Changing to safe zones is a bad idea. It sucks when someone takes your gold. It's supposed to. But for the guy who took it. It's awesome. And it should be.
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Well I am kinda against the safe zone, this game is pirate game, pirates had no safezone.. you are pirate, you should know, there is no safezone, pirates are crominals, so if you are not careful, you can loose your chest on outpost... it could be very stressful if someone starts camping there, but there is other outposts to go or your crew can protect you... pirates are cruel and cheaty, not safeseekers... thats my opinion =))
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@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas 0/35/45 i believe to balance the first chest gains. Then it grows exponentially from there, but yes, the investment initially isn't very great. What @Neveren is saying, is once you get up in rank, the missions cost more, and to be griefed/PKed, you lost all that and if you are low on money, and can not afford another mission... you are kind of SoL in a way, you have to island hop or wreckage hunt and try to find chest spawns... So I can identify with him, because once you rank up your Pirate levels, the lower level mission, aren't available any longer... So, yes, it can be problematic, especially if players were continually being hunted and lost all their money...
Still the payout is significantly higher then the amount of money invested, where as with the higher tier voyages you end up digging 3 to 4 treasures from a single island and can have a mix of up to 8 maps and riddles, resulting you return with a cargo hold packed with treasures, ranging from common, rare and mystical ones...
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
What, we have been advocating for, a safe-zone to mitigate another players ability misuse, overuse or abuse the killing mechanic in game, in and around the Outpost (which is seemingly rippling outward now), to facilitate a griefing/harassing/camping or Pking atmosphere for players who are trying to use the only progression/cosmetic/money turn in focal points currently in game. It's a protection measure from toxic behavior only, not to detract from intended healthy game play.
I clear understand why people want a safe zone and I'll not object to a zone (or zones depending on the world size), were one can spend money on upgrades in shops and vendors, hang out in a tavern, get drunk, puke on people for all I care and have general fun without any PvP conflict. In short a safe zone for social interaction.
However, as soon as a NPC is added to those safe zones, where one can cash in there valuable cargo, it will become the place to flee to as means to avoid conflict, for that what the safe zone offers a zone where conflict isn't possible, those exact zone will also need to render interaction a ships cargo not possible, for else it can still be stolen etc etc...
This is a merged thread, but sadly way to many focus and cry outs are focused on getting a safe zone where one can safely cash in there treasure and that's the core component for the risk/reward and tensions other crews on the horizon brings to this game.
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@wype0ut-ger said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
My biggest issue with "Safe Zones" is the possibility of just running away from other ships, seeking shelter on outposts.
I had quiet a few situations where our sloop got chased and we sailed from outpost to outpost, handing in one single chest each time while the other one kept steering the ship. Would have been pretty lame if we just had to reach the very next outpost to completely avoid the fight.
And i would have been disappointed even more times if others just fled from us, hiding in some game mechanic... feels just wrong if others can bail by stepping over some invisible line...
Absolute agree!
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@balakp said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@wype0ut-ger said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
My biggest issue with "Safe Zones" is the possibility of just running away from other ships, seeking shelter on outposts.
I had quiet a few situations where our sloop got chased and we sailed from outpost to outpost, handing in one single chest each time while the other one kept steering the ship. Would have been pretty lame if we just had to reach the very next outpost to completely avoid the fight.
And i would have been disappointed even more times if others just fled from us, hiding in some game mechanic... feels just wrong if others can bail by stepping over some invisible line...
Absolute agree!
I too agree! That's why my previous posts have attempted to address this, take a look scurvy sea dog!
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I am open to a social hub. Create an island smack dab in the middle of the map and call it Tortuga. It will give those who want a safe zone what they want, it can be used to give people who want a social space what they want, and executed properly it will enhance immersion too. I know some people have requested mini games like cards or other gambling games. Good place to put that and it will be another way people can make friends.
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@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas 0/35/45 i believe to balance the first chest gains. Then it grows exponentially from there, but yes, the investment initially isn't very great. What @Neveren is saying, is once you get up in rank, the missions cost more, and to be griefed/PKed, you lost all that and if you are low on money, and can not afford another mission... you are kind of SoL in a way, you have to island hop or wreckage hunt and try to find chest spawns... So I can identify with him, because once you rank up your Pirate levels, the lower level mission, aren't available any longer... So, yes, it can be problematic, especially if players were continually being hunted and lost all their money...
Still the payout is significantly higher then the amount of money invested, where as with the higher tier voyages you end up digging 3 to 4 treasures from a single island and can have a mix of up to 8 maps and riddles, resulting you return with a cargo hold packed with treasures, ranging from common, rare and mystical ones...
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
What, we have been advocating for, a safe-zone to mitigate another players ability misuse, overuse or abuse the killing mechanic in game, in and around the Outpost (which is seemingly rippling outward now), to facilitate a griefing/harassing/camping or Pking atmosphere for players who are trying to use the only progression/cosmetic/money turn in focal points currently in game. It's a protection measure from toxic behavior only, not to detract from intended healthy game play.
I clear understand why people want a safe zone and I'll not object to a zone (or zones depending on the world size), were one can spend money on upgrades in shops and vendors, hang out in a tavern, get drunk, puke on people for all I care and have general fun without any PvP conflict. In short a safe zone for social interaction.
However, as soon as a NPC is added to those safe zones, where one can cash in there valuable cargo, it will become the place to flee to as means to avoid conflict, for that what the safe zone offers a zone where conflict isn't possible, those exact zone will also need to render interaction a ships cargo not possible, for else it can still be stolen etc etc...
This is a merged thread, but sadly way to many focus and cry outs are focused on getting a safe zone where one can safely cash in there treasure and that's the core component for the risk/reward and tensions other crews on the horizon brings to this game.
Exactly this, I agree. That's why the island I and many others have suggested, is plausible. Check out my previous posts scurvy sailor!
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@kinggzanga said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@prybar-bas 0/35/45 i believe to balance the first chest gains. Then it grows exponentially from there, but yes, the investment initially isn't very great. What @Neveren is saying, is once you get up in rank, the missions cost more, and to be griefed/PKed, you lost all that and if you are low on money, and can not afford another mission... you are kind of SoL in a way, you have to island hop or wreckage hunt and try to find chest spawns... So I can identify with him, because once you rank up your Pirate levels, the lower level mission, aren't available any longer... So, yes, it can be problematic, especially if players were continually being hunted and lost all their money...
Still the payout is significantly higher then the amount of money invested, where as with the higher tier voyages you end up digging 3 to 4 treasures from a single island and can have a mix of up to 8 maps and riddles, resulting you return with a cargo hold packed with treasures, ranging from common, rare and mystical ones...
@jonatomm said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
What, we have been advocating for, a safe-zone to mitigate another players ability misuse, overuse or abuse the killing mechanic in game, in and around the Outpost (which is seemingly rippling outward now), to facilitate a griefing/harassing/camping or Pking atmosphere for players who are trying to use the only progression/cosmetic/money turn in focal points currently in game. It's a protection measure from toxic behavior only, not to detract from intended healthy game play.
I clear understand why people want a safe zone and I'll not object to a zone (or zones depending on the world size), were one can spend money on upgrades in shops and vendors, hang out in a tavern, get drunk, puke on people for all I care and have general fun without any PvP conflict. In short a safe zone for social interaction.
However, as soon as a NPC is added to those safe zones, where one can cash in there valuable cargo, it will become the place to flee to as means to avoid conflict, for that what the safe zone offers a zone where conflict isn't possible, those exact zone will also need to render interaction a ships cargo not possible, for else it can still be stolen etc etc...
This is a merged thread, but sadly way to many focus and cry outs are focused on getting a safe zone where one can safely cash in there treasure and that's the core component for the risk/reward and tensions other crews on the horizon brings to this game.
Exactly this, I agree. That's why the island I and many others have suggested, is plausible.
Just to be clear,
A social hub for player to interact with one another on land, free of PvP conflict...
Not a safe haven for ships and there cargo hold full of treasures...