[Mega Thread] - Safe Zones
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@flyingxnimbus93 Copied the text into the post above
as that topic exists in the Pioneer's section of the forum as some of the content is still under NDA. -
@flyingxnimbus93 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Well, I understand that it can take a while, why couldn’t that be incorporated into the timer? This place also doesn’t even have to be a safe zone, if you made it so there is only player damage, so you can’t keep getting griefed and sunk over and over, but the attacking players can still kill the crew of said ship and take their chests also? Kind of would be a compromise for everybody?
If there was just player damage, you would respawn on your ship - resulting in a big spawnkill party. It is already annoying enough that players spawn next to their sunken ship.
And most people asking for a safezone seem to worry most about their chests, not about their ship. Ships can easily be replaced, gathering new ressources doesn't take that long either.
For me, the voyage isn't over until i handed in the last chest. If something about an outpost seems fishy we can circle it and scout with our spyglass. In case of doubt, there are lots of other outposts without campers. And if i get chased, i either try to escape (or make em so bored of chasing me that they give up) or fight them.
And an example: a ship starts attacking us, runs out of cannonballs and tries to get away. It would honestly p**s me off if i couldn't get my revenge cuz they fled into a safe zone...
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I understand this is a touchy subject, but the inclusion of a safe zone is something that should be implemented into the game, but with constraints.
Let’s get the obvious facts out of the way right now: First, Outposts are a focal point. They the ONLY place where players can rank up, earn money and buy customized costumes/equipment for play. Secondly, it is the only hub where players spawn into the game at and first gear up at, and new players will be introduced to the game here, their initial first impressions will be gained here, good or bad, and it will stick with them. It was also designed to be a social hub (Pub/Tavern) where players can gather to drink and do whatever they want.
Immersion breaking Folly…. Safezone will not break your immersion The biggest reason why is players need to feel there is an ability to turn in their treasure without being griefed/camped/hunted or PKed. Now, this DOES NOT mean they can’t be PIRATED! They just can’t be killed. Nothing is stopping other pirates from going onboard their ship and taking treasure for themselves and turning it in, its just stopping them from killing them needlessly over and over. I would ask, is the Outpost a place where I am getting easy rewards because I want to kill players and take their treasure vice experiencing the game, or is it a place where I come to turn in treasure I have found myself. You create your own immersion, you can’t have it robbed from you because of a game mechanic…
Players abusing Safezones/Safezone Camping (Constraints restraints) So, how does one crack this nut.. well it’s there are a lot of debate and a lot of good ideas out there. Here are a few of mine:
Safezone Camping:
If ship(s) X is loitering for Y amount of time outside of the safe zone then a Kraken sinks their ship. AFK flags and player movement is taken into account and a simple algorithm will solve this.
If Ship(s) X traveling at Y speed enters the safe zone and crashes into ship Z or what is considered “land” or a dock, then Ship(s) X will sink and players aboard will die. This will solve two issues, first the players who are trying to avoid conflict, and the other players who are trying to grief “docked” ships.
Safezone abuse (staying in too long):
If Ship(s) X are in safe zone for over Y amount of time, then they will disconnected from game. Again, AFK flags and player movement should be taken into consideration (algorithm again).
Another idea I had was to put a player flag/buff when entering the Outpost which lasts for X amount of time (NOT indefinite), making the player invulnerable. This will allow for players who are logging into the game getting ready to sail, and also allow for players who are docking to turn in, but have a time limit to get their business done before they are open game. Again, you can still pirate them, steal their treasure off their ship and turn it in for yourself, nothing is stopping you from doing that, this is just affording them from being griefed and PKed over and over is all.
I want to say I really enjoy this game, I enjoy the PvP I have experienced and look forward to playing at release, I am trying to afford all players the ability to play they way THEY want to, as advertised by Rare, from solo to multiplayer, free of griefing as much as possible. I want to see this game thrive and have a viable and prosperous future.
Captain JonAtomm
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I dont get it .. why would a Savezone hurt? you have 90% of the map where you can still kill and steal... i don't get the Problem..
Why not make something like: "the one with the chest in Hand, reaching the outpost/isle is the "official" owner."
that would prevent people from Camping on the Island. you an still kill someone off on the ship. But as soon as he steps on the isle, it is his chest for sure.And you can't tell other people how they are supposed to play this game! (Play with more players/friends, play more agressive, if you don't like it, Play something different) These are not helpful or constructive..
People forgett, that this game is supposed to be fun for more than one target audience.
Every person is different, has a different kind of playstile, has different friends. You can't make everyone like your stile.
It is ok if a 4 man crew shoots my single player ship. But if the same group killls me, or drives me away over and over (and they know that i dont have anything on board) then i feel frustrated. -
@kinggzanga Maybe we should call it a social zone, since a safe zone is so easily misunderstood around here. Honestly a social area to banter with other pirates and gather your friends together seems perfectly logical to me, and I fail to see why anyone would speak out against it. I know I personally am not asking for all inclusive in-game safe zone, where I can run to when being chased by a bunch of baddies. I mean a actual social space, possibly instanced away from the core game, where we can play games and show off our hard earned gear.
Glad to see at least me and you are on the same page, as well as a few others.
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I do not understand Mike Chapman said that there will be safe areas where players will be able to display their wealth and train safely that was mentioned on an interview with IGN.
"Chapman doesn’t get into the specifics of this all too much, but makes mention of NPC-manned ports with ship merchants and quest givers, as well as islands peppered with buried treasure and stalked by skeletons or the like. He also mentions “safe zone outposts” - presumably those ports will make up some or all of these - where players will be able to wield swords and show off their in-game wealth, but seemingly not be able to go full PvP on strangers’ booties or booty (I promise this is the only time I’ll make that joke)."
Sea of Thieves: What the Hell Actually Is This Game? - IGN
Answering the "yeah, it looks cool, but what do you actually do?" question in 14 separate answers.
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That’s great thanks! Great to see this is a genuine discussion, I think it’s also a great feature that completely enhances and adds to the experience!
One thing I’d like to say, and please let me know if this should be posted in a feedback thread, but I definitely think that the social area should have mini games such as card and dice games, shooting ranges, unique quests to the social area? There are so many possibilities with this, I think it would really help you form alliances and rivalries, which could only improve PvP instances surely?
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@dennis-box I would agree if this community wasnt prone to PK , camping etc... And since you d have to trust the goodwill of the players to not spam outposts constantly, having no options or alternatives to being robbed by lazy players is still unacceptable.Pretty sure the day you keep getting robbed blind and helpless no matter how many times you log out , that you d start seeing some gd in a compromise. ^^
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@knightx13 I don't know how Rare works, or how many people they have tasked with this title, because of that I find it hard to judge if something could make it to release or not. My guess is they're a pretty decently sized staff, and if 300+ people are working on this project towards its release then I don't see any reason why something like this couldn't be added to the game before its release. There are already a done of building assets in the game, so that would be pretty easy to create. There also seems to be a lot of vegetation and land assets in the game that a designer could barrow from. Quite possibly the most time consuming part would be the coding of the instances and the allocation of servers. Which depending on how many coders are working on it, could indeed take a while to complete.
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@superiorewe4833 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Suck it up yall!!! Oooo I got killed oh no. Come on #bemorepirate it’s a game built on pvp and should stay that way
It’s not being killed and having your treasure stolen that’s is he issue, please don’t mis-interpret this, it’s about having something that can be a place to do more than just sail the seas looking for chests 100% of the time I’d like a place to meet other crews form alliances and rivalries, play some mini games and crack open a cold grog with the boys, before and in between sailing the seas and finding chests and getting into battles. I love the thrill of a battle on this game, I don’t like the feeling of people griefing when there is literally no point
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@xredx-harlow And there very well still could be. They might already have planned out a social space and simply not shown it off to us yet. But we do not know for sure.
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Outposts should definitely NOT be safe zones. but a single social hub is a good idea. maybe it's in the center of the map... Somewhere you can see the crazy designs of other pirate ships docked, puke on people in the street, and get into fist fights. the game needs something to do solo while you wait for your friends to log on. It's a beautiful and rich world. give me a reason to be in it when my friends are not.
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@ethnine I’ll be honest I wouldn’t mind if this is implemented after release, but I would like to see it implemented, Its a hard job to add something that has a new function into an already existing game, and you don’t want anything tampering with the game if it’s not ready to be implimented
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I mentioned it on another thread I think, but the only way I can see safe zones work is just a small area. I think the tavern would be a suitable spot. You spawn there at the start of the game, you can drink there and talk to other pirates and hopefully there will be tavern games that you can play there.
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@flyingxnimbus93 This is true, but it really comes down to if its something they've actually already started or not in my opinion. @xReDx-HaRlOw brings up a valid point, in that Mike Chapman and others have certainly hinted at the addition of social spaces before. If this was something they already had planned and were working on but was one of the things they wanted to keep secrete, I could see it being in at launch.
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@lostscotman said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
No safe zones should exist in a game called Sea of Thieves set around piracy.
Cmon mate pirates never had a social hub? Look at Tortuga, Barataria Bay and port royal, they were all places where pirates gathered and socialised. Plus it fits in with the games intentions and I truly believe that it would only add to the experience
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@lostscotman Yes, but it would be necessary to put a police that stops the pirates who kill in public areas and have to pay a premium to get out of prison or play a mini game to attract a dog that carries keys it will leave the time to a player of to reappear and run away if he does not want to be spawn kill
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@thebostonbean said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Please, please, someone protect me from the pirates! LOL
I don't understand why people are unnecessarily confrontational in a thread meant to discuss an issue which has merit on both sides.
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The only safe zone I would be okay with would be a social hub of some sort. It could be a pirate haven of sorts. And since Sea of Thieves is a very romanticized version of pirates, a pirate haven wouldn't feel out of place. It could even be a gated fortress with cannons everywhere. After you dock, you have to enter through a specific gate where two very large intimidating pirate NPC's wont let you through unless you "check in" your weapons at the door.
This would make the inside safe to pirates, but your ship can still be attacked. In which case the cannons around the island can fire back on any ship that chooses to attack another ship that is within the hub.
Heck, you could even make this place a "Pirate's guild". Have some huge torch visible from afar for ships. If it's lit, then there is a bounty on another player available. If you're a player that likes to attack ships in the hub, or kill players while shopping (which is pretty dishonorable), the Pirate's Guild could put a bounty on your head. Which might make you think twice about chasing a ship to this location where other pirates might be looking for you.
And this place could purely be a social and cosmetics hub, none of the other guilds (except for the hypothetical Pirate's Guild). So you can still come here to meet other pirates, check out each other's ships, buy cosmetics, etc. But no place to end your voyage.
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There is no honor in killing a defenseless, unarmed person carrying a chest of gold. How are you supposed to defend yourself when you are on the outpost with your loot and someone shoots you in the back of the head, steals it and cashes it in? Without a safe zone you are only making it enjoyable to the people who want to camp and steal loot. That is not going to have long term enjoyablity for everyone. Take cues from GTA and ARK. Either have private server options or a passive ghost mode option.
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The game is already pretty easy. Why make it easier. It will just end up being boring.
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@thebostonbean said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
The game is already pretty easy. Why make it easier. It will just end up being boring.
Have you even read the arguments and have anything constructive to say?
Or, are you just here to troll?
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I am still not seeing any real tangible reasons to not make all Outposts safezones. It wouldn't detract from being a Pirate, because you can still take treasure (that's Pirating), you just wouldn't be able to kill, so that's a moot argument.. There is a social space there now, the Pub/Tavern... So tell me again why being able to kill a player on the Outposts is SUCH A NEEDED mechanic that not having it implemented would be an overwhelming game and immersion breaking thing? You can still take treasure from other Players (off their ship) there, and turn it in, thus being a Pirate.. you just wouldn't be able to kill players and/or grief them. It also wouldn't break immersion because, immersion is made by the player not by game mechanics, and to be honest, the players who are killing on the Outposts aren't being immersive Pirates, they are being griefers, not playing the game in the spirit of how it was intended to be played: Get a quest, gather the treasure, protect your treasure and turn it in, and to defend that point may be singling you out as a potential griefer yourself.
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@jonatomm You don't have any tags and your reputation is 9, you are as experienced as someone who just instaled the game.
The only not that bad idea about safezones is making the tavern one, inside it you cannot shoot or get hurt, that would also create problems and be explolited but it's a middleground I could understand, anything bigger than that is mental.
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@knightx13 said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
Currently however, less so much of an issue with trying to turn in quest items and being ambushed, the bigger concern is if you are in one of the shops or speaking to an NPC vendor for quests, you could be attacked and killed while in menu. What sort of restrictions/protections (that make sense) could be placed that prevent players from being killed while trying to purchase something, and how can this be avoided from being abused as well?
There will certainly be griefing, trolling, etc but hopefully maybe there will be a majority willing to make it a peaceful place. So I think, what it will need is tools.
- A way to report troll players active in an instance to a NPC (when you talk to him, it would open a list with the players on the server). When there's more than X amount of reports (depending of the total number of players in the instance), the player is kicked from this instance. There would be a timer or something to prevent spam report.
- Maybe something like the brig (for more RP interactions) that would work on the same basis as above.
- An honour duel that you could propose to another player. The one who loses it is kicked from the server.
You can force the hounour duel to another player if he killed you at least 3 times in a row.
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@wturok said in [Mega Thread] - Safe Zones:
@jonatomm You don't have any tags and your reputation is 9, you are as experienced as someone who just instaled the game.
The only not that bad idea about safezones is making the tavern one, inside it you cannot shoot or get hurt, that would also create problems and be explolited but it's a middleground I could understand, anything bigger than that is mental.
I figured you would say that, tags and medals do not add weight nor do they reference experience. They are just decorations on your gamer tag, and mean nothing.
I offered, reasonable middle ground ideas, but you want to speak for all the "experienced players" what defines that? A tag, by your name? I think not.. I consider myself experienced at this game, from my game play, and time in the game, which I spent a lot of this past week, and you Sir, do NOT speak for me.
I am for Safezones and I am an experienced player.
