Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?

  • LotharLive
    Founder

    I just lost hours worth of treasure, after being chased across half the map because a huge ship is apparently much faster than a small one.
    Intricately maneuvering through rocks, small passages and playing the wind doesn't count for anything apparently, because once I was in open waters the galleon would just catch up to my sloop fast.
    Definitely not playing the game today anymore. This is so stupid.
    Please, developers if you wanted players who play alone to have absolutely no advantages whatsoever, could you just delete the smaller ship instead?
    It's in no way fair or even realistic that a huge, heavy ship would be faster than a light one. Already having the advantage of multiple hands on deck.

    And no, I don't want to queue with total strangers the whole time, I'd like to have fun on my own aswell, thank you.

  • Login To Reply
    53
    Posts
    49.9k
    Views
  • CaidaLibree
    Marauder
    Founder

    @lotharlive I'm not sure about the physics behind this, but bigger and more sails might have something to do with it. Yes, a sloop is weighs less, but also has just 1 sail to go places. Whilst the galleon has 3 massive ones.

  • lumpaywk

    herehere. also make outpost safe. that way you have somewhere to outrun to. even at the same speed its just a matter of time or you will run around till you just decide to quit the game.

    i also despise the get good coments. the game should be open to everyone.

  • lumpaywk

    @caidalibree sloops are traditionaly fast runners specifically designed to be faster than large ships. its there entirereason for existanse.

  • Wo0dOx
    Master
    Insider

    Sloops can outrun a galleon going against the wind (rather than with it). Galleons move like a snail without billowing sails. They also can't turn fast without using the anchor, and even then they need to be on top of raising it up, adjusting 3 sails etc. to catch up to you again. Using rocks and tight areas is smart but don't get stuck or cornered if they just loop the long way around. I've heard of folks using storms or the edge of the map to lose pursuers but you've gotta be quick on your own feet too =)

    I hope your next experience goes better!

  • Ethnine
    Founder

    @lotharlive Is it? I have outran a ton of Galleons solo in my Sloop, and I always thought it was faster. Maybe they were just bad at sailing, in any case I have never been outran by a Galleon.

  • Aprovoked Mango
    Insider
    Founder

    If theyve caught you up in open waters I can only assume youve started sailing with the wind again. The sloops advantage is against the wind. Plus if theyve done it quickly I can only assume youve let it happen by thinking you escaped too soon and not kept an eye on it. Solo play is tough, its why it warns you its not for the inexperienced.

    @lumpaywk said in Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?:

    herehere. also make outpost safe. that way you have somewhere to outrun to. even at the same speed its just a matter of time or you will run around till you just decide to quit the game.

    i also despise the get good coments. the game should be open to everyone.

    Whiilst it is open to everyone, tbf there is a slight essence of "get gud", it takes experience to know how to escape other ships or best them in battle etc. If a new player takes on experienced players theyre very likely going to have a bad time, this is why the game encourages you to team up so you can get some experience before sailing solo. So in that respect yeah it is a case of playing and learning

  • Labarge28
    Master
    Founder

    @ethnine said in Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?:

    @lotharlive Is it? I have outran a ton of Galleons solo in my Sloop, and I always thought it was faster. Maybe they were just bad at sailing, in any case I have never been outran by a Galleon.

    Galleon is definitely faster if both ships are sailing with their sails set to the wind. So that should be the last direction a sloop should try to flee.

  • Rdizz
    Ship Mate
    Founder

    @lumpaywk said in Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?:

    herehere. also make outpost safe. that way you have somewhere to outrun to. even at the same speed its just a matter of time or you will run around till you just decide to quit the game.

    i also despise the get good coments. the game should be open to everyone.

    Outpost shouldn't be safe zones per say... but should fire at anyone who's shows aggression. Agree? Not just some magical spot where cannons don't work but a zone that has security.

  • Kenshin091
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    Galleons are definitely faster, as they have bigger sails. However, this is only true with the wind filling your sail. If you were to sail against the wind, you could see that the sloop would be faster than the galleon. Along with better maneuverability, as you said you had tried to lose them between islands, this could help you escape next time!

  • LotharLive
    Founder

    @aprovoked-mango I was aware they were following me the whole time.
    There was no way I could "think I escaped too quickly" since no matter whether it was against the wind or not, they were never further away from me than cannon range.

    After that going on for a good half hour or longer I decided to go with the wind, as it would make sense for my small vessel to be faster than theirs.
    Well, no. Apparently not.

    All in all a very frustrating experience that also doesn't make sense in my book.

    And for the "git gud" part, I have played since the first day of the technical alpha. Pretty sure I'm okay on experience.

  • FullmetalJakee
    Founder

    @lotharlive

    It's for balance, if you've been in a galleon having a ship battle against a sloop then you'd realise how much work goes into trying to manuver the same as them in a chase. If the galleon was also slower, then Sloops would be ridiculously over powered.

  • Aprovoked Mango
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotharlive I assume youre using a different gamertag as you profile suggests new player based on two posts, which are this thread? If not, did you never provide alpha feedback in the forums???

    if youve been playing since 1st day of alpha how have you not experienced any of this before?? This has been how its worked from the get go tbf and was pretty much accepted by the alpha community.

    The get gud statement also wasnt in response to you, it was the other player who was hating on the remark, which I agree its a bad term but it holds some truth.

  • SailorSnags

    As @wo0dox says, you can usually outrun a Galleon by going against the wind, but you have to maneuver and punish their need to adjust 3 sails. If you keep turning, either slowly or quickly, you will lose them if they don't tend to their sails. If they do gain on you, turn away from them as hard as you can, rotate the sail over then try to keep it just on the edge of being full. If they are all on the cannons (which they usually are), they get a few good shots at you going by, but you will gain time as they turn and fix sails. You should be able to fix your ship before they catch you again (if they do). Keep tacking against the wind and they shouldn't be able to catch you. Use islands as blockers and try to get them into dead wind. If you just sail straight in one direction they will power into you hard.

    BUT you will also need a lot of patience, it has taken me up to 40 minutes to lose a galleon that was at one point close enough to hear them co-ordinating. It's probably the most fun I've had in this game. At one stage they sniped me as I was steering. It would have almost been worth letting them catch up so I could congratulate them on that shot! About halfway into it I saw another sloop and headed for it and they unloaded on them for me, so that also seems to be another viable option...

    Oh also, finding choppy seas will ruin their cannon/sniper aim, that's probably why storms are good. Plus any sudden wind changes benefit sloops a lot more.

  • LotharLive
    Founder

    @aprovoked-mango
    As my founder title suggests this gamertag was indeed in the alpha testing phase.
    The few times I wanted to give feedback I couldn't find a proper place to give it. I have only stumbled upon the forum once I was looking at problems with the beta.

    To be perfectly honest in the alpha I only ever encountered a single galleon while on a sloop. And that was at an outpost. So no sailing involved.

    @FullmetalJakee
    I don't see a balance issue there at all, afterall if a sloop is within cannon range so is a galleon. Not to mention the skill/experience it takes to pull off navigating, hitting them with cannons frequently enough to do damage and staying out of boarding range at the same time.

  • Mad Jack Ketch
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    The way ships work with sails are;

    The higher the sails, the more wind it catches so the faster she goes to the sloop where she has a square sail can only catch a small amount of wind.

    But this is where creativity comes in, the galleon has speed over turn rate and the sloop is the exact opposite, I out ran the galleon yesterday not by speed but by wits. I baited the galleon in towards my sloop I then turned hard to port and dropped the anchor, then released again and sailed in the opposite direction. Even though the galleon can do the same, she has a hard time turning as well as getting that anchor back up.

  • FullmetalJakee
    Founder

    @lotharlive
    If you haven't noticed a balance issue then you haven't had much experience with Sloop vs Galeon combat.
    A Sloop can easily out manuver a galleon, this is a fact and everyone who plays knows this. It's also not hard for a Sloop to stay behind a galeon at all times while doing quick turns and firing cannons into the back, and when the galleon try's to turn, it can just continue to follow its tail. If the galleon was also slower than a Sloop, along with being less agile, then galleon Vs Sloop combat would be a game killer. People would only use sloops because of the huge advantage it brings. A galleon is only faster than a Sloop if the crew is good. Remember they have to angle three sets of sails into the wind to shorten the distance in a chase. If a Sloop has its one sail in the wind and a galleon only has two, it won't catch it. Pair this with the wind direction changing and the Sloop thats being chased changing its course. Catching a Sloop on a galleon is actually a hard task that needs good coordination.
    I've chased sloops that are constantly dodging round islands quickly, and trying to get a full crew to raise all sails while someone puts the ship on full lock, then angling the sails and dropping them back into the wind as soon as we have turned just to continue chase isn't an easy task; The same manuver on a single man Sloop is literally ' Turn the wheel full lock, straighten it out, now adjust the sail' sorted. Now if that was a two man Sloop, that manuver is completely seemless. There's the balance issue and as to why galleons are faster.

  • Hotel Actual
    Founder

    Because it has four times as many sails.

  • kasapsalih

    @lotharlive i think best idea

  • gOht
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Because it has 3 huge sails. Lol use your brain.

  • CPT Flounder
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I didn’t know they where! A random player and new friend and I, with treasure onboard our vessel, chased a gallon down. We out manoverd her got below her guns have her ten balls repelled her boarding attack before both vessels sank! It was epic. I don’t even mind losing the treasure for we mighty few sank a gallon ans sent her crew to the ferry if the dammed!

  • stem589

    @lotharlive

    In BETA, I personally care very little about my loot. It's about to go 'p**f' in a couple days.

    That said, when the game releases, I wouldn't risk carrying much more than I'm willing to lose. ;)

    Two chests max.

  • Sandman929

    @goht it's got nothing to do with the number of sails

  • Sandman929

    I'm no expert at sailing physics, but physics in general made me think the "more sails" arguments above sounded wrong.
    Here's an interesting article about hull speed for displacement hulls. Strangely, from a common sense point of view, the ships length (edit: water line length, not boat length) is the reason large ships have higher top speed.
    For the curious...

  • Sandman929

    If anyone wants to sound smart at pirate parties, remember that hull speed in knots = 1.34 * sqrt(hull width in feet), the wider the hull displacing the water, the larger the square root of that number, and the greater top speed.

  • TheRealsl0p0k
    Founder

    @sailorsnags said in Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?:

    As @wo0dox says, you can usually outrun a Galleon by going against the wind, but you have to maneuver and punish their need to adjust 3 sails. If you keep turning, either slowly or quickly, you will lose them if they don't tend to their sails. If they do gain on you, turn away from them as hard as you can, rotate the sail over then try to keep it just on the edge of being full. If they are all on the cannons (which they usually are), they get a few good shots at you going by, but you will gain time as they turn and fix sails. You should be able to fix your ship before they catch you again (if they do). Keep tacking against the wind and they shouldn't be able to catch you. Use islands as blockers and try to get them into dead wind. If you just sail straight in one direction they will power into you hard.

    BUT you will also need a lot of patience, it has taken me up to 40 minutes to lose a galleon that was at one point close enough to hear them co-ordinating. It's probably the most fun I've had in this game. At one stage they sniped me as I was steering. It would have almost been worth letting them catch up so I could congratulate them on that shot! About halfway into it I saw another sloop and headed for it and they unloaded on them for me, so that also seems to be another viable option...

    Oh also, finding choppy seas will ruin their cannon/sniper aim, that's probably why storms are good. Plus any sudden wind changes benefit sloops a lot more.

    This is super useful information! Haven't run into it yet, but I've been pondering how deal with a galleon in a sloop. Seamanship is going to a crucial part of this game, which is really fun and unique. I would have never thought to outrun a galleon by sailing into the wind. As time goes on, I'm very sure there will be plenty of "How to" videos with tips and tricks on YouTube. In the meantime, thanks for these here!

  • TheRealsl0p0k
    Founder

    @mad-jack-ketch said in Why in all heavens is a galleon faster than a sloop??? Why?:

    But this is where creativity comes in, the galleon has speed over turn rate and the sloop is the exact opposite, I out ran the galleon yesterday not by speed but by wits. I baited the galleon in towards my sloop I then turned hard to port and dropped the anchor, then released again and sailed in the opposite direction. Even though the galleon can do the same, she has a hard time turning as well as getting that anchor back up.

    Also very handy tips. Looking forward to learning more. Thanks!

  • Mad Jack Ketch
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @therealsl0p0k You are welcome. I learned some skills from Naval Action and adapted them here as well as progressed my learning curve here and it seems to work rather well.

  • Rich44Man
    Founder

    I did not play the alpha so the first time I was chased by a Galleon my instinct was to sail with the wind. I was amazed at how fast the Galleon overtook me. There are several great points in this thread about avoiding a Galleon:

    Do not sail with the wind

    Sail against the wind

    Sail around islands and rocks and avoid sailing in a straight line

    If you are about to get broadsided then turn the wheel all the way to one side, drop anchor, then immediately raise it (know as the handbrake turn)

    There is one maneuver that I would like to add that help me get away from one persistent Galleon. All I did was sail circles around one island. The tighter turning radius of the sloop and the constant changing of the wind gave me a slight speed advantage. I eventually ended up on the far side of the island compared to the Galleon. I then sailed directly into the wind the next time I came across the windward side of the island.

    One last note, I have not had much luck using storms to escape. It seems like most storms punch at least one hole in my sloop. Since I'm too busy sailing the ship I don't have time to repair holes and bail water so I end up sinking anyway.

  • Cable0312

    This is a good point the gallion has to weigh atleast 5 -10 time the weight of a sloop.

  • Gargantucon
    Founder

    @lotharlive just had this happen to me... I know how to sail in real life and I've been playing since the Alpha. I've never had a galleon make gains on me like this... It was crazy! Anything I'm missing?

  • pine gap

    Whilst Sailing with The wind, the galleon is quicker. Whilst sailing against the wind though, the soooo is quicker. That's assuming you've angled your sails.

  • pine gap

    @pine-gap sloop*

  • Seiino
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    So, in terms of a real explanation, it would be that whilst a Galleon is larger it has more sails, and a Sloop is small but with only one sail, it's sort of the everyday equivalent of a small car with a small engine vs. A large pickup with a large engine.

    However, this imbalance can be corrected on a sloop.
    If you find yourself with a Galleon in pursuit; turn yourself into the wind. A Sloop is smaller and so has less drag when the wind blows against it, whereas a Galleon moves substantially slower with all the sails and masts creating more drag.

  • pine gap

    @carcinogenetxc That's it! You smashed my comment out of the water! Haha

Login To Reply
53
Posts
49.9k
Views
1 out of 53