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@dragotech123

You are that guy

Pvp in any game is never fun. You will always find those who cheat or beat you every time and that is never fun. For anyone. To lose.

It’s combat. You either take the W or accept the L
Regardless of what your goals are. To be the better sailor, cannon operator, boarder, or earn the rewards faster than anyone.

yeah after reading this thread there are def some valid points. The HG community dunks on adventure players as soon as they que, and i see how this can be insanely frustrating. Its not only boring for the Casual but also for the HG player, since hes after good fights and not levels mostly at this point in time. The People still grinding HG are in it to compete and not for the lvls.

There are different solutions and this has been brought up in the forums in the past.

The elo system. It just doenst make sense that every win/loss is worth the same amount of reputation. Sinking a loss farmer is worth the same as sinking an HG endboss. This mode desperately needs a better elo system.
The Q times. Providing Players with shorter que times comes with a loss of evenly matched opponents. Im sure a lot of Players are fine with a longer Q time if they get matched with an opponent thats on their skill lvl. This requires an elo system tho, im pretty sure there is none.
The lack of work on it. Just as Arena, there has been no effort put into HG since its release. Arena had the most restarded rules where it made sense to scuttle your own ship in order to deny points, or keep opp ships afflout to farm points. It didnt make any sense and it received no work post release.
HG is kinda the same. The system is very basic and there is no signs of improvement.

I think those are all valid points, regarding the time a game takes thats just very vague, yeah solos might take a while sometimes, and maybe duos. In general tho i think the average match is under 10 -15 minutes. If someone just keeps running and mast enjoying just scuttle and Q a new fight. watever. From my experience this is not an HG related problem. HG regs dont turn out that often, its more of the inexpirienced players reseting fights all the time.

Also if you are looking for training grounds just go into adventure mode. Go practice cannons and helming on skellyships. Go shoot your own boat some holes and see how many you can bilge. Go circle an island and snipe the phantoms on it. Go fight bigger crews on Adventure. Learn to ladderjuke someone, learn to shoot from the ladder. Learn how to defend ladder. Anchor yourself against another ship and try to defend/turtle as long as you can. Go to youtube and watch guides, there are guides from some of the best HG players in the world on basically every subject, and its not some thing thats challenging mechanicly, there are easy to use guidlines that everyone can follow, like which holes to repair first and which ones to leave open etc. The opportunities are infinite.

I think HG is great, yeah u might have a bad experience here and there, but at least people are in it to fight and not to run away.

yeah speak for yourself fam. me and a lot of my friend enjoy hourglass, even without any rewards.

absolutely!
i have got to level 80 and I'm so done with this. i don't know why but i've started to get unreasonably upset when i lose because i did everything right, and still lose.
what can i do when i get one balled, masted and boarded by a sniper blunder god with a hale dozen blunder bombs?
sure i win some, but i can tell they don't like losing any more that me and i don't like doing that to the poor newbz.

and why is it so hard to be cursed with the most lore common cures in the game anyway? Are we to believe every bounty gold skelly is a high ranking member of the Servants of the Flame? Or the phantoms of the sea forts are Guardians of the sea?

@legatus-crow
HG really isnt funny, I totally agree. I did the lvl 1000 athena, but I wont ever go for the reaper, simply because its not funny.

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

i dont expect to win, i expect to increase the amount of times i am able to even get into a match and complete it per night because i dont have that much time to play in the first place.

So if that's the case, wouldn't it be more effective to just raise anchor, dive, and loss farm? It's not meant to be an easy grind that every player completes. There are just some things that the average casual player won't be able to get done in certain games and I think that's fine. It'd completely take away any reason to grind if the rewards were just handed out like participation trophies.

Somewhat related I suppose, but it makes me think back to all the players who chose to abuse the hourglass exploit and got their level 1000 gold curses within a few days - not only does it ruin it for people who did the grind legit, but it makes it worthless to them as well. Afterall it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

@v1ne6 I earned both curses predominantly solo slooping. Duo sloop HG is probably the SWEATIEST mode. It can be done and you will lose until you get better with the meta. Totally doable though. I’m no sweat lord

I don't often try to do Hourglass because, as a solo player, the matchmaking and the grind both have issues. An even bigger issue is that there are zero tutorials or practice areas where you can improve without getting dunked on for months.

If we look at the history of piracy, almost all pirates were sailors, merchants, or naval soldiers before becoming pirates. They all had some semblance of skills at sea before they decided on a pirate life. SoT does not offer that sort of training. I wish they did, though. A practice course or moving "target dummies" would help so much with learning naval combat.

I would like to have some of the skeleton cosmetics, but as a solo sloop player, that will probably never happen. Yes, I could join a guild and make friends, and I likely will, but that's a big ask for people who want to play a game in their free time. Especially when the game requires you to go do Discord (or elsewhere) to even find a guild.

Hourglass could be fun, but right now, it's only fun for really good veteran players. Everyone else seems to hate it.

If I could buy the Skelly cosmetics, I would barely ever play Hourglass—at least not in its current state. PVP is not where I find my enjoyment in this game, but I can see how it could be fun. Even if we want to try PvP in HG though, we get dunked on so mercilessly that we can barely even practice.

That being said, I'd still like to play it to improve my PvP, but it needs to do a better job of matching us with players of similar skill.

To echo what others have said

I do find that when fighting newer crews or players matches take much longer than experienced crews. Experienced players will generally toss hands and stay in it. Newer player get his a couple times and immediately move to reset.

Yes chains work here, but not every player has mastered them and I get their woes as every time they get close to a win someone pulls out and drags the fight on another 20 min.

@legatus-crow I think that newer players to PvP are so adverse to sinking that they rep IMMEDIATELY and pull out of the fight. It is something that needs to change, but it’s ultimately that player’s decision and right. What if they are on a large streak and wanna keep it going?

I am VERY against a shrinking circle. This isn’t COD where you can sit stationary, the ships continually move, what if you demast and board that ship but then the circle moves to where the anchored ship is but now you sink because you are outta bounds? It is not a great method. I would support a time limit if no damage has been done in x amount of time.

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

![alt text]@shadowseas6979 said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

With respect I understand where you might be coming from, however I have to politely disagree, I like PVP hourglass as a thing to do when I'm board, not because it has a curse (Though the curse is cool), and it's not just me I have experienced players with the gold ghost curse and they still do PVP for Athena (before you could level up Athena to 500.) just for fun. So if Rare did remove the curse from PVP, yes the player count will reduce but the match making will still be as quick as it is now.

If you were to take a gander at forums regarding feedback for this gamemode you'd see that my complaints about the hilariously obnoxious match length compared to the grind are seemingly nonexistant and ill tell you its 100% because everytime I see one in recent posts on reddit and elsewhere the mods just remove them less than 3 hrs after someone gives this sort of feedback. Rare needs to accept that this sucks and we need other options for increasing this rep rank. Anything faster. God, even a temporary weapon specific to hourglass, like a boarding axe you can use to make holes in a ship once you board. It's so slow that people loss farm, devise cheese where they sail you out of bounds or stick to the usual unfun experience of spawn camping and I'm guilty of it too but its just a sign that it isn't fun period

also, yes, if you encounter someone who bails no water, repairs no holes, and basically afks the second they get into the match, you can sink them with 1 cannon ball. if you encounter someone who has more than 10 pieces of wood, you aren't sinking anything with 10 cannonballs objectively 98%+ of the time. I'm smart enough to know that isn't true

Drop mast, put 9 holes in, 1 ball and camp you can absolutely sink someone. I’ve boarded straight away and sunk them with no cannons. Either lock down the ship and spawn camp with fire, slam their ship into an island or rocks, or sail them out of bounds.

The game mode is still fun to me. The thing is MOST People go into this like is a High Seas fight, it is NOT, it couldn’t be further from a high seas fight and if you treat it as such you’ll probably sink quickly. The game mode is intense and can be quite frustrating when you lose but how do you celebrate a hard fought win? Ecstatic right?! That’s the point of this mode.

Also a ton of super high level HG players exist and this is the only mode that they play, should we delete it because YOU don’t like it?

Did my time in HG, and I will admit I havnt touched it since I got my gold bones.

I would intersct with it again once they revamped it, added new rewards, did SOMETHING for it after 2 years of neglect

@legatus-crow hurt your feelings? I think you're overthinking it. Your original post had no purpose as far as I'm concerned. A whiny title and a request to move a reward you need to work to earn behind a pay wall. I disagree with this on every level. Hourglass could definitely do with some improvements to increase engagement but yours wasn't a request for that (at least not originally)

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

@hiradc said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I for one will be sad to see you go once you have your curse and miss out on all those free wins.

i know you think this is a clever response that's meant to hurt my feelings but i want you to know i dont care about how good you think i am at this game, because i know you dont get paid to play it and neither do i so your efforts and achievements are totally intangible and worthless; what youre tacitly admitting is you would prefer if the people you fight didnt fight back at all because youre presuming im a loss farmer who never tries (which is funny, again, because it proves my point. both that you encounter these types, and that you dont enjoy hourglass enough to admit that pvping against people who dont try is preferable). i do try, sometimes, but when i do, the bottom line is that it isnt fun; mainly because it takes so long, but honestly because i dont like the pvp loop in this game and would prefer it to be arena style if i was going to do it rather than a potential hour long battle of attrition. sometimes i do just play suicidally, like ram my boat and try to get a kill, and sometimes it just ends up with both ships sinking and the result being a coin toss but this is the preferrable outcome to me because i literally dont want to play against people who are willing to sit there for 40+ minutes to secure a win.

there are so many ways to make the hourglass grind reasonable and less of an obnoxious loop, and PvP in general and they basically havent come up with anything to spice it up in the entire time this game has been out because the weapons they just released are dog and everyone uses the same 2, maybe 3. they could have made the arena shrink over time, they could even add weapons available specific to this gamemode specifically so that sinking takes less time once an entire crew is dead and youve boarded so you dont have to resort to spawn camping and fire bombs so much. boarding axes have shown up a pretty large chunk of times in the search results, i get that they might be a bit much when youre considering how easy it should be to ruin and profit for yourself off of 2-3 hrs of someone elses collecting loot, but in a PvP gamemode i am pro sinking ships and less spawncamping and people staring at the holes i put in their ship nonstop and bailing constantly. my commentary isnt even 100% specific to hourglass either, its commentary on pvp in general. spawn camping is boring, chasing people is boring, getting chased is boring. the weapons feel good to use in pve, and horribly, awfully imbalanced in pvp and the usage rates are undeniably, objectively and inarguably skewed. it is bad design

@capt-greldik said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I’m all for ideas on how to make HG more rewarding , especially from 0-100, but not on the basis of “I can’t sink people quickly please change HG”.

Ok, but unfortunately that's what my suggestions are, because my feedback is that HG sucks because it takes too long, and there are incentives in it to be obnoxious, sail away and drag it on for 40 minutes almost as if you hope your opponent will go to sleep in order to work the next day before it's over so you can get some rep. 5 days is a decent amount of time to me, and im using others experiences, where their forum and reddit posts get deleted, to show that if you dissent they silence your opinion even though its an extremely common experience and common suggestion/feedback that HG matches should be shorter because they simply take too long. That included with the earlier poster said, someone has to lose and get basically nothing. Of course I want the curse. If you think tall tales take too long then I don't even know what I would say because its basically guaranteed with the inclusion of safer seas and you could probably complete all of them in less time than it takes to get to 100 tbh. What I'm insinuating is that the pulse means nothing because a valuable curse is locked behind it and I am throwing in suggestions but if none of them make the matches less grindy or decisive, then no, sorry, I think that HG sucks and that's my feedback lol. Maybe if it was based on time spent in a single match I could get behind it, then the guardians i killed yesterday would have left with something after 40 minutes of fighting rather than it being a gigantic waste of time to them, and loss farming wouldnt be lucrative because if you spend 3 minutes and then die youll get less

I don’t use reddit and I don’t see forum post about HG getting closed on these forums, so I don’t really know where you’re coming from on that.

It sounds like you don’t think tall tales are too bad, that’s great, and I think that HG is really fun. It’s just a difference in opinion. I don’t care for tall tales but I don’t think they should be quicker just to get me the curse faster. I’m 25/45 out of shores of gold but hit a mental block, I also did them all on high seas with almost no interference so changing seas doesn’t make a difference to me, I’m just not into it. My point is that changing HG so that someone who has admittedly only played it for 5 days, and admittedly doesn’t like it, is not good for HG, it’s just good for you. And again, once you become more efficient at sinking people your match lengths will decrease, even as a solo. I almost always play with a group these days but the majority of my HG matches are still solo overall.

The take-away here is as you get more lethal you will without a doubt have faster matches. Competing against other humans always has a learning curve to overcome or at least get acquainted with.

@fiberfrag said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I mean if you dive without even crating the outpost quick, how do you except to win in a reasonable time frame? That seems like an issue you can fix on your own. Don't get any chains or captaincy food didn't work when you bought it? Just dive to another outpost and stock up before queuing up.

i dont expect to win, i expect to increase the amount of times i am able to even get into a match and complete it per night because i dont have that much time to play in the first place. i try to win, but i usually make it quick and its usually an attempt at a high risk high reward maneuver and thats really it. if me and the person i was fighting against didnt loot the island, one of us would run out of cannonballs or wood. that would be the ideal to me because it would at least go by faster. the general experience for me is that ill put a ton of holes in someones ship each time i have an angle on them and theyll just fix them and bail every time by sailing away, sometimes theyll even have it fixed if i shoot holes and then board. the fires spread very slowly and barely do any damage as well, so its usually a slow burn of spawn camping and me eating all their food to waste it. not really my idea of fun pvp. id have actually engaged with arena pvp if the reward was a skeleton curse, id have done it for fun from time to time too if the resources were a little more scarce as well, nevermind streamers or whatever, but id still be here talking about how there's an obvious weapon imbalance that nobody at rare ever seems to care enough about to touch

Everybody is dunking on the OP

im absolutely not the only person who feels the way i do, ive seen threads and posts just get deleted by mods before for criticizing hourglass like i said. if people are doing it, its not an indication that people enjoy it.

also putting "git gud" through chatgpt isn't considered dunking to me and honestly it's kind of sad that there's even an expectation amongst players to "do their homework" on the intricacies of a game that seems to be designed to be extremely simplistic and has so many immense and obvious pvp issues like the imbalance i previously mentioned. people constantly asking for more safer seas stuff in spite of Rare having gone on record saying they don't want to do that is a testament to how little people care because of how much they can see themselves enjoying almost every other aspect of the game with their friends alone. id at least rather there be some kind of economic reason for a game to waste such an immense amount of time if the obvious lack of foresight wasn't bad enough

@hiradc said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I for one will be sad to see you go once you have your curse and miss out on all those free wins.

i know you think this is a clever response that's meant to hurt my feelings but i want you to know i dont care about how good you think i am at this game, because i know you dont get paid to play it and neither do i so your efforts and achievements are totally intangible and worthless; what youre tacitly admitting is you would prefer if the people you fight didnt fight back at all because youre presuming im a loss farmer who never tries (which is funny, again, because it proves my point. both that you encounter these types, and that you dont enjoy hourglass enough to admit that pvping against people who dont try is preferable). i do try, sometimes, but when i do, the bottom line is that it isnt fun; mainly because it takes so long, but honestly because i dont like the pvp loop in this game and would prefer it to be arena style if i was going to do it rather than a potential hour long battle of attrition. sometimes i do just play suicidally, like ram my boat and try to get a kill, and sometimes it just ends up with both ships sinking and the result being a coin toss but this is the preferrable outcome to me because i literally dont want to play against people who are willing to sit there for 40+ minutes to secure a win.

there are so many ways to make the hourglass grind reasonable and less of an obnoxious loop, and PvP in general and they basically havent come up with anything to spice it up in the entire time this game has been out because the weapons they just released are dog and everyone uses the same 2, maybe 3. they could have made the arena shrink over time, they could even add weapons available specific to this gamemode specifically so that sinking takes less time once an entire crew is dead and youve boarded so you dont have to resort to spawn camping and fire bombs so much. boarding axes have shown up a pretty large chunk of times in the search results, i get that they might be a bit much when youre considering how easy it should be to ruin and profit for yourself off of 2-3 hrs of someone elses collecting loot, but in a PvP gamemode i am pro sinking ships and less spawncamping and people staring at the holes i put in their ship nonstop and bailing constantly. my commentary isnt even 100% specific to hourglass either, its commentary on pvp in general. spawn camping is boring, chasing people is boring, getting chased is boring. the weapons feel good to use in pve, and horribly, awfully imbalanced in pvp and the usage rates are undeniably, objectively and inarguably skewed. it is bad design

@capt-greldik said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I’m all for ideas on how to make HG more rewarding , especially from 0-100, but not on the basis of “I can’t sink people quickly please change HG”.

Ok, but unfortunately that's what my suggestions are, because my feedback is that HG sucks because it takes too long, and there are incentives in it to be obnoxious, sail away and drag it on for 40 minutes almost as if you hope your opponent will go to sleep in order to work the next day before it's over so you can get some rep. 5 days is a decent amount of time to me, and im using others experiences, where their forum and reddit posts get deleted, to show that if you dissent they silence your opinion even though its an extremely common experience and common suggestion/feedback that HG matches should be shorter because they simply take too long. That included with the earlier poster said, someone has to lose and get basically nothing. Of course I want the curse. If you think tall tales take too long then I don't even know what I would say because its basically guaranteed with the inclusion of safer seas and you could probably complete all of them in less time than it takes to get to 100 tbh. What I'm insinuating is that the pulse means nothing because a valuable curse is locked behind it and I am throwing in suggestions but if none of them make the matches less grindy or decisive, then no, sorry, I think that HG sucks and that's my feedback lol. Maybe if it was based on time spent in a single match I could get behind it, then the guardians i killed yesterday would have left with something after 40 minutes of fighting rather than it being a gigantic waste of time to them, and loss farming wouldnt be lucrative because if you spend 3 minutes and then die youll get less

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

@a10dr4651 said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

Alot of people taking part already have the curses, you see plenty of complaints about hourglass stating unfair match making, "I keep getting matched against skelly curse sweats". So no I don't think removing the curses would stop the small group taking part from playing.

What stops the majority of the playerbase jumping in is the lack of reward, lack of variety and lack of the PvPvE/risk vs reward gameplay that makes adventure so popular.
It needs daily deeds, first win bonus, defensive to be more relevant and some form of PvPvE event tied into it for more to take part.

ive encountered a single person with the skeleton curse after like 5 days of trying hourglass and absolutely no one with the fortune curse. i can win matches where i try just fine, but 90% of the time if i try even a little bit it takes like 20-30+ min per round. I just got out of one with some guardians of fortune where it lasted like 40+ minutes because they would sail as far as possible anytime i hit their ship so they could bail and repair holes. they had the most god awful aim i'd ever seen, predictably only used blunders, and never tried to board, not even once. they had no loot, no incentive, just constantly waste time, spend time sailing around a limited circle and stay out of range. rare will add 2 brand new weapons after how many years that are god awful for pvp rather than add anything at all that helps sink a boat. a dollar store sword you can throw and a pistol with twice the barrels and 1/3 the punch. why in the world didnt they consider a boarding axe or some kind of tool to damage ships by boarding even if it was just specifically for arena type fighting? why not make the HG arena shrink after 10 minutes? where the hell is the hourglass part of hourglass? how tf is this fun actually?

is anyone who has approx 3 hours a day or less of any leisure time just not meant to play this game? why?

So you’ve tried hourglass “for 5 days” and now you’re telling everyone what the pulse of HG is? I encounter curses all of the time, but I’m guessing that it has something to do with however the matchmaking works since I have both curses, 200 in guardians, nearly 400 in servants, and I HG frequently, so perhaps the matchmaking works in some regard.

When I first started doing HG my matches tended to last longer as well. The reason for this was simple, I was not very lethal and neither were my opponents. If both participants aren’t great at sealing the deal then the matches will go longer. This is doubly so when playing solo since solo play is inherently less lethal as it is. As you improve you’ll be able to sink your opponents faster, and the matches you get will probably be versus other opponents with better abilities. This is a you thing. Keep at it and your HG matches will go quicker because you’ll make them go quicker.

My entire guild does HG regularly and we have a variety of skill levels and faction ranks. They love it, otherwise they probably wouldn’t do it; which is totally an option btw, you don’t have to do HG, but you want the curse and so you do.

I’ll be completely frank with you, this post reads just like some of the other HG post on these forums read - you don’t actually like it but you want the curse as quickly as possible. You want HG changed to suit you, not to improve HG, and I’d wager that after you get the curse you’ll never look back, leaving us all stuck with the changes you advocated for even though you don’t even like HG.

We aren’t all entitled to every curse, you don’t have to get every curse. I want the shores of gold curse but I really don’t enjoy doing tall tales, but I don’t come on the forums asking for Tall Tales to be quicker. That would be a disservice to those who do like tall tales and have taken the time to complete them.

People do like HG, and some people don’t, that’s normal, you are not an authority on who does it for what reason, especially not after trying for “5 days”. Get better at PvP, which HG will inevitably do for you, and your matches will become quicker. I don’t know what my average HG match time is but I’d wager around 8 minutes. Some longer, some shorter. I play on NA West and the queue is healthy.

I’m all for ideas on how to make HG more rewarding , especially from 0-100, but not on the basis of “I can’t sink people quickly please change HG”.

Everybody is dunking on the OP but people are willing to pay obscene prices just for the old promo cosmetics on ebay because they wanna look cool. Imagine how much you could charge for a fully customizable ghost or skeleton player model with its own separate cosmetic shop? So many live service games these days fight for your time/money and you know damn well time is more valuable if the person has the option to pay up instead. Anybody i know who still plays SoT is not playing Hourglass just like how they werent playing Arena unless they happen to be a twitch streamer in which case of course theyre going to play, its their job more or less.

The fact that Hourglass has seen no major shakeups to its mechanics or rewards after this long is not a good look. It made a horrible first impression on me at launch so i never looked back even with the minor changes it got post release. Im sure im not the only one considering how rarely i actually see other players with these curses in my sessions even before the influx of PS5 players.

Not every aspect of this game appeals to everyone, and if you’re loss farming for your curse, then you’re making our lives easier, so I thank you for that.

@legatus-crow said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

If you put a grindy but unique curses behind the most unfun gamemode possible, and people still do it, it isn't a sign that people like the gamemode.

You don't think hourglass is fun? Fair enough, that's your opinion. Personally, I still enjoy it as it's pretty much the only thing I do in the game. I've had both level 1000 gold curses for about a year now and still play even though there's nothing to work for regarding commendations or cosmetics (except the titles at 9999 I suppose).

I promise you it will go in the gutter. So, so much faster than arenas ever would be

Arena and hourglass are just two completely different things man. Arena was a separate mode, whereas hourglass is integrated into adventure. No matter how much the hourglass population fluctuates, it probably won't get removed as it's just a feature within the standard game mode. With that being said, I'd love to see them make some improvements to hourglass, such as adding more incentives to play it, as there's not really enough to convince the average player to even consider putting the time into it at the moment.

the fights take so long if both people haven't looted anything before starting the match

I mean if you dive without even crating the outpost quick, how do you except to win in a reasonable time frame? That seems like an issue you can fix on your own. Don't get any chains or captaincy food didn't work when you bought it? Just dive to another outpost and stock up before queuing up.

@hiradc said in Don't take hourglass player counts as a sign that people actually enjoy hourglass:

I for one will be sad to see you go once you have your curse and miss out on all those free wins.

That was so cold 👀🤣