I’m suggesting we try 1 Sword and choose your gun. Remove the 2 gun hold aka dbl gunning, due to the fact recovery is not aligned with been shot so quickly. The animation bypass which I’ve been shown allows for a less time penalty. This was a major issue before dble gunning got slightly nerfed. The sword to gun switch is extremely difficult to manipulate so penalties apply adding for greater pvp combat. Those who can’t use the sword correctly of course will greatly challenge this. I’ve suggested this many times to well above average pvpers and some cracked players, they didn’t like the idea and when challenged to beach sword duals it seemed to bring them back down to earth showing it takes more skill then previously admitted. I’m no pvp god but I know the mechanics and do well with the sword and have killed some of the best pvpers in the game to their surprise ( no they don’t stream ) obviously with the rules been sword only and full health no eating till death. They all seemed to enjoy it. So not taking guns away but stabilize the pvp so new players also have the ability to be on more of a level playing field as rare states they want the “level playing field”.
Perhaps if not taking out the 2 gun option limit the rounds to 2 bullets each gun. Though this will not resolve the issue with animation glitch bypass for extremely quick shot offs it may help balance the lesser penalty for having two guns.
Still:
I stick with 1 gun 1 sword suggestion just choose which gun you want to use….
Show your skills not your glitches and exploits.
Thanks in advance for your feedback been negative or positive. I’ve been asked for a long time to bring this to the table, my opinion is it won’t go anywhere but for the massive amount of you who asked me to do it, you’re welcome. Prepare for responses 🤣
1 Gun 1 Sword
Double gun is not the issue. Quick swap is, and the devs have shown that they are against quick swapping. Rather than trying to remove a play style that many enjoy, its better to fix the actual issue.
You are far from the first person here to bring up the idea of removing double gunning and forcing sword, but double gunning is not an issue, nor is it bad. Double gunning brings variety to what people can do and how they can play. Im always against nerfing or restricting something that is not its self an issue, just because of some bad sports doing something they shouldnt be doing.
Let people play how they like, and only punish the bad actors, not the good sports.
A simple fix would be to include the equivalent of a debounce in the code which acts as a cooldown between shots.
For example, when you fire a shot the debounce timer starts to tick down, after 2 seconds or however long they want it to be between shots, the timer runs out and shot can be fired again. This debounce will be shared between all weapons, meaning switch weapons won’t affect the timer so it will still need to be at 0 to fire the next shot.
Why they haven’t incorporated such an easy solution is beyond me, currently the shots rely on animations, when the animation ends the shot can be fired, the animation is acting as a debounce, the issue is animations can be interrupted in many ways allowing players to bypass this cooldown which is why they should do away with this and actually put it in code to stop quick swapping.
okay im not sure if you know the mechanics since u said its hard to manipulate a gun-sword switch. gun to sword = no penalty aka the old quickswap. gun to gun is patched and if you want to shoot too quickly the game will force the animation.
fwiw i actually do think the sword is a good weapon for newer players, and gives them a chance against DG. and idk "leveling" the playingfield is becoming more and more of a thing in gaming and rare is certainly riding the trend(QS patch, harpoonboard patch, lootjugle patch thats been announced). i just dont like it, a player that has 10 hours ingame just shouldnt have a chance against someone who invested thousands of hours, if the skillgap is accordingly. i wouldnt call myself good at any game. but i enjoy playing competitive and i try to learn and get better. if some new player could come and just RNG me thats maybe nice for him, but i certainly dont like it. there is a lot of RNG in SOT already.
rare should have the best data on weapon balance anyways. they will know better than any of us.
@locke5474677 I understand the mechanics and tested it.
You are always relearning how to use weapons every update as they change constantly. Unfortunately we are forced to read the “release notes” which seem to lack critical information. I agree you should be able to master the process of PvP and a new player should not be able to own you. To many times have I attempted to use the weapons as I new them from previous months (while taking a long break) only to be killed by a newbie with 10-20 hours of play. Why they tweak them? Because people complain they can’t defend against them, this is what ruins the gameplay. And I’m sure the day 1 pirates are aware that the more game time/experience you have the more likely your play will be at a disadvantage to a new player and your experience level should counter this. Example: run a plain sailer ship, and start a new pirate. The advantages are there, it’s written in the code and have not only experienced it but also I’ve seen it. Problem with this is the ever changing environment, weapons tweaks and ship mods. All the surrounding actions that work in with all these things further disadvantages you unless you play 10hrs a day everyday to keep up with it all. So I disagree the sword 1 gun would not have the effect you mentioned. The weapons were deemed perfectly balanced with minimal hit reg only 3 times in the sea of thieves life. That’s only 3 updates that were deemed balanced by so many people, i remember how hot the topic was and much everyone enjoyed it. Know one we talked to cared about content just ecstatic with great PvP and smooth servers with balanced weapons. This is what gets people hooked on the game. And we always are hopeful it gets returned so we can once again enjoy it. They will not & probably cannot fix the issue so I change seems likely the way to go.@jellyfishapod2 'who can't use the sword correctly'.
You're kidding yourself if you think sword is higher skill with a large cone of cleave damage compared to needing to aim specifically with limited ammo.To each their own everyone has the choice and all are viable and have strengths and weaknesses.
@tek-lt said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
A simple fix would be to include the equivalent of a debounce in the code which acts as a cooldown between shots.
For example, when you fire a shot the debounce timer starts to tick down, after 2 seconds or however long they want it to be between shots, the timer runs out and shot can be fired again. This debounce will be shared between all weapons, meaning switch weapons won’t affect the timer so it will still need to be at 0 to fire the next shot.
Why they haven’t incorporated such an easy solution is beyond me, currently the shots rely on animations, when the animation ends the shot can be fired, the animation is acting as a debounce, the issue is animations can be interrupted in many ways allowing players to bypass this cooldown which is why they should do away with this and actually put it in code to stop quick swapping.
There is a one second cooldown that can't be bypassed, regardless of animation.
the weapons seem pretty balanced to me. DG is stronger but has a higher skill ceiling, all the sweats run it. that beeing said there are some insane swordusers out there that clearly could stand their own against any DGer.
thing is blundy and snipe both have very unique use and are very strong at it. u dont want to miss the opportunity to one blunder someone, and you also wanna be able to snipe from ship to ship. so the meta is set that way.
that beeing said if we leave to top10% out of the equation which is fair in adventure. id say similar skilled players fighting, the sworduser is gonna win a 1v1 more often simply because its easier to use.
like if somebody 2 taps you pretty fast, he is pretty good at this game, thats it. it is up to you to start dodging shots.
the sword has its benefits tho, like jumping thru a player? sworddashin and gliding? clearing like 30ms in a second? u dont have to reload it? its waaaaaay better for PVE.
i mean u cant have it all.
fwiw i do thing blunderbombs maybe could be reworked, they are pretty good and a DGers best friend vs sword once hes missed shots.
@locke5474677 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
the weapons seem pretty balanced to me. DG is stronger but has a higher skill ceiling, all the sweats run it. that beeing said there are some insane swordusers out there that clearly could stand their own against any DGer.
thing is blundy and snipe both have very unique use and are very strong at it. u dont want to miss the opportunity to one blunder someone, and you also wanna be able to snipe from ship to ship. so the meta is set that way.
that beeing said if we leave to top10% out of the equation which is fair in adventure. id say similar skilled players fighting, the sworduser is gonna win a 1v1 more often simply because its easier to use.
like if somebody 2 taps you pretty fast, he is pretty good at this game, thats it. it is up to you to start dodging shots.
the sword has its benefits tho, like jumping thru a player? sworddashin and gliding? clearing like 30ms in a second? u dont have to reload it? its waaaaaay better for PVE.
i mean u cant have it all.
fwiw i do thing blunderbombs maybe could be reworked, they are pretty good and a DGers best friend vs sword once hes missed shots.
Its a bit long winded, and there are some small points i dont 100% agree with, but over all this is fairly accurate. Sword and gun is on fairly equal grounds with double gun, especially if some one gets good with a sword.
Blunderbuss needs a longer reload time it’s always been stupid OP.
You don’t give only one weapon a OHK potential and then also give it a reload speed that enables it to be fired twice before a sword user can perform a 3 hit combo and a final swing.
Blunderbuss is by far the weapon you want always equipped for PvP.
Your secondary is situational.
@faintnote798922 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
Blunderbuss needs a longer reload time it’s always been stupid OP.
You don’t give only one weapon a OHK potential and then also give it a reload speed that enables it to be fired twice before a sword user can perform a 3 hit combo and a final swing.
Blunderbuss is by far the weapon you want always equipped for PvP.
Your secondary is situational.
The reload time on it is fine, i think it needs some other changes, namely removing 1 shot from full health, and over half the pellets should have to land for it to apply any kind of knock back. If that was done i think it would be fine.
@goldsmen said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@faintnote798922 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
Blunderbuss needs a longer reload time it’s always been stupid OP.
You don’t give only one weapon a OHK potential and then also give it a reload speed that enables it to be fired twice before a sword user can perform a 3 hit combo and a final swing.
Blunderbuss is by far the weapon you want always equipped for PvP.
Your secondary is situational.
The reload time on it is fine, i think it needs some other changes, namely removing 1 shot from full health, and over half the pellets should have to land for it to apply any kind of knock back. If that was done i think it would be fine.
Haha people will literally revolt if the blunderbuss damage is nerfed even by 1hp per pellet.
Plus a longer reload time is actually the real solution. It will perfectly match the high risk high reward potential of the shotgun.
In other words don’t whiff your shot.
@faintnote798922 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@goldsmen said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@faintnote798922 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
Blunderbuss needs a longer reload time it’s always been stupid OP.
You don’t give only one weapon a OHK potential and then also give it a reload speed that enables it to be fired twice before a sword user can perform a 3 hit combo and a final swing.
Blunderbuss is by far the weapon you want always equipped for PvP.
Your secondary is situational.
The reload time on it is fine, i think it needs some other changes, namely removing 1 shot from full health, and over half the pellets should have to land for it to apply any kind of knock back. If that was done i think it would be fine.
Haha people will literally revolt if the blunderbuss damage is nerfed even by 1hp per pellet.
Plus a longer reload time is actually the real solution. It will perfectly match the high risk high reward potential of the shotgun.
I dont think very many people would have issue. Nerfing its 1 shot capability is one of the most common requests surrounding the weapon. Especially since a long reload doesnt account for its first shot. Knockback from a single pellet being the second biggest issue people have with it.
@hiradc try switching sword to gun and gun to sword. Let’s see how fast you can damage and how quick you get a shot off. The animation won’t allow it. There are many ways to use the sword, and there is no aim assist either lol
We find most people actually don’t realize what can be don’t with the sword, it’s not just chop chop chop lol
There’s plenty more skill required than 2 gun shooting.
Thanks for your reply and no mate I’m not kidding myself nor are so many that bring this up.@jellyfishapod2 the irony is quick swapping which was *nerfed for double gun is still possible with the sword, so you can use it to ads quicker swapping from a sword to a gun.
I'm aware there are intricacies to sword use, I do both depending on situation. Sword definitely has a lower skill floor.@foambreaker said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
I don't see many double gunners on Xbox Only servers, swords are common.
My theory is that aiming on PC is too easy, too fast and that is the root issue. I have seen videos with deadly accurate split second aiming.
You’re very close but in reality it’s that the response curves for controller make it nearly impossible to track fast moving, strafing and jumping targets.
The 1.0 response curve ie the original curve is absolute madness trying to control it.
So later they added 1.5 - 5.0 and the default response curve is 3.0.
The goal of these new curves was to give controller players more fine control of their camera but they didn’t start from scratch they tweaked the original 1.0 curve.
So basically all the response curves are bad and here’s why.
I use a 2.5 response curve right in the middle of the options.
The initial acceleration when you barely move the stick is really really slow then and quickly the acceleration ramps up to a nearly uncontrollable level.
There’s only a small portion of the response curve that is actually useful for tracking targets and to get to it you first have to fight the slowness in the beginning and be extremely careful not to push the stick to far to where you lose control of your camera.
You cannot afford to play on a sensitivity lower than 6 or 7 or you won’t be able to turn around fast enough.
If you increase the curve from 2.5 you will notice the slowness in the beginning of the curve increases making it feel even more sticky and then the acceleration ramps up even more.
If you decreases the curve to 2.0 you will notice the camera doesn’t feel as sticky near the deadzone but you also lose fine control near the deadzone. So you compensate by increasing the deadzone to say 2.0 but that makes it feel sticky again.
The slope of all these response curves is just bad.
I really really wish Rare would redo the controller response curves.
We need less slowness/stickyness near the deadzone, more control/less acceleration in the mid range of our right stick.
I’m telling you I took for granted how good it felt to play cod on controller even way back in the days of modern warfare 1 and 2.
Those developers did a fantastic job with how it felt to control your camera and aim on controller decades ago so it certainly can be done.
If only Rare knew how much the bad controller response curves negatively affect the PvP experience for controller players especially when it comes to aiming guns.
I’ve brought this issue up many times before and they never take me seriously.
If it felt great to play on controller, like players could control their camera with precision the controller PvP experience would be significantly better.
@faintnote798922 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@foambreaker said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
I don't see many double gunners on Xbox Only servers, swords are common.
My theory is that aiming on PC is too easy, too fast and that is the root issue. I have seen videos with deadly accurate split second aiming.
You’re very close but in reality it’s that the response curves for controller make it nearly impossible to track fast moving, strafing and jumping targets.
The 1.0 response curve ie the original curve is absolute madness trying to control it.
So later they added 1.5 - 5.0 and the default response curve is 3.0.
The goal of these new curves was to give controller players more fine control of their camera but they didn’t start from scratch they tweaked the original 1.0 curve.
So basically all the response curves are bad and here’s why.
I use a 2.5 response curve right in the middle of the options.
The initial acceleration when you barely move the stick is really really slow then and quickly the acceleration ramps up to a nearly uncontrollable level.
There’s only a small portion of the response curve that is actually useful for tracking targets and to get to it you first have to fight the slowness in the beginning and be extremely careful not to push the stick to far to where you lose control of your camera.
You cannot afford to play on a sensitivity lower than 6 or 7 or you won’t be able to turn around fast enough.
If you increase the curve from 2.5 you will notice the slowness in the beginning of the curve increases making it feel even more sticky and then the acceleration ramps up even more.
If you decreases the curve to 2.0 you will notice the camera doesn’t feel as sticky near the deadzone but you also lose fine control near the deadzone. So you compensate by increasing the deadzone to say 2.0 but that makes it feel sticky again.
The slope of all these response curves is just bad.
I really really wish Rare would redo the controller response curves.
We need less slowness/stickyness near the deadzone, more control/less acceleration in the mid range of our right stick.
I’m telling you I took for granted how good it felt to play cod on controller even way back in the days of modern warfare 1 and 2.
Those developers did a fantastic job with how it felt to control your camera and aim on controller decades ago so it certainly can be done.
If only Rare knew how much the bad controller response curves negatively affect the PvP experience for controller players especially when it comes to aiming guns.
I’ve brought this issue up many times before and they never take me seriously.
If it felt great to play on controller, like players could control their camera with precision the controller PvP experience would be significantly better.
tldr; mouse is faster.
It’s not just faster. More importantly it’s more precise and easier to control.
Even on controller only servers people still don’t like using two guns because it’s hard to aim them on controller with the terrible response curves.
Rare ignores it though.
Haven't tried getting into the whole double gun quick spam meta, but I don't carry 2 guns for one simple reason.
If I run out of bullets for any reason, I cannot attack at all.
I guess in certain situations the double gun would be a safer choice, but the zero attack after no ammo feels like built-in balance.
Don’t sleep on blunderbombs they are arguably better than the sword and pistol.
Weirdly.
I have been sleeping on them, so thanks for the tip, they are still limited though. I usually carry fire.
@bleu-solo can block the sword lol
Which has an immediate impact on your swap. This doesn’t occur with 2 guns.
Hence the 2 gun advantage.@dabombtrigga if you can’t kill somebody in 10 shots there’s a problem. Or multiple pirates. So it’s not a very good built in balance.
In the ocean battles, the 2 guns win 99% of the time.
Now ignore the sharks as they are out of control on this current update lol
Now 2 pirates that carry 1 gun 1 sword have a far more balanced PvP battle.@jellyfishapod2
You're mentioning that if your sword has been blocked that you cannot swap to your gun quickly.. If your sword has been blocked then you're not fighting a double gunner; you're fighting another sword user. Which makes this point that someone having 2 guns has an advantage over you because you can't swap fast irrelevant because it's impossible for a 2 gun user to block your sword.@goldsmen Double gunning has been killed due to the simple reason quick swap has been removed. This was no easy thing to learn I have 747.2 hours on SOT and still was getting the hang of it and I LOVED learning it and LOVED how satisfying it was. Sword users hated double gunners because it had a bit of a higher skill ceiling, therefore the highest/best players would dominate the field, but sword was also excellent in its ways. If learned then they could outplay the double gunners with some what ease. Think about it sowrd has the lunger, dodge/dash, and a 3-hit combo which to add on stunned making it hard to escape the 3-hit combo. Double gunning all it had was: blunderbuss 1 shot potential, but hit reg being considered a lot of the time didn't happen, the eye of reach is an excellent weapon, but took a bunch of time to reload, the pistol is simply easy to fire and fast reload. They removed the only fluency between these guns. Now I need to shoot, stare at my opponent for a good second as they slash me or whatever, and then get out my gun. TO EVEN ADD ON, guns can miss often considering the waves, boat, trajectory, and the dash the sword is provided. Makes it really hard to even compare how bad double gunning now is to a sword. I can keep waffling about the countless issues this has, but this is the surface of my complaint
@kat5542 Removing quick swap did not kill double gun. It was an exploit that rare had been trying to remove for years.
There is nothing balanced about being able to kill some one instantly with even a single gun, but being able to make up for in optimal blundie range with an exploit is even less fair. You can still double gun effectively without a bug that everyone knew rare was trying to patch out for a long time.
@GoldsMen Double gunning is clunky and sad to use now. Sword has a bug where you block and then lunge you may lunge further, why not then remove that too? Yes, you can still use a double gun effectively, but the skill ceiling is extremely low compared to what it used to be, making the sword easily the better option and outplaying the double gunner as they stare at you as they try to switch their guns or reload. Because sword, as I mentioned has a 3-hit combo that stuns, and you don't need to reload a single time, AND you can dash to dodge or close up the distance to easily eliminate your opponent in a few seconds.
@kat5542 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@GoldsMen Double gunning is clunky and sad to use now. Sword has a bug where you block and then lunge you may lunge further, why not then remove that too? Yes, you can still use a double gun effectively, but the skill ceiling is extremely low compared to what it used to be, making the sword easily the better option and outplaying the double gunner as they stare at you as they try to switch their guns or reload. Because sword, as I mentioned has a 3-hit combo that stuns, and you don't need to reload a single time, AND you can dash to dodge or close up the distance to easily eliminate your opponent in a few seconds.
Sword lunging was moved to feature status a long time ago. It's not a bug.
Sword is also blockable by another sword, negating the combo. If you are moving using dashing/dodging to close distance you have zero range ability while doing that.
@kat5542 said in 1 Gun 1 Sword:
@GoldsMen Double gunning is clunky and sad to use now. Sword has a bug where you block and then lunge you may lunge further, why not then remove that too? Yes, you can still use a double gun effectively, but the skill ceiling is extremely low compared to what it used to be, making the sword easily the better option and outplaying the double gunner as they stare at you as they try to switch their guns or reload. Because sword, as I mentioned has a 3-hit combo that stuns, and you don't need to reload a single time, AND you can dash to dodge or close up the distance to easily eliminate your opponent in a few seconds.
The lunge "bug" has been addressed by rare. They accepted and embraced it as part of the game. Rare chooses what is or isnt a bug. And double gun is not made more clunky, its just got a fiddly bug removed from it that contrary to belief, not everyone was physically able to do since lower frame rate players physically couldnt do it.
Sword does have a 3 hit combo that stuns, but you can also keep your distance from them, or use your blunder to stun them still or can jump through them to get out of their attack. Movement skill has not been reduced, and you arnt running around with lead shoes now that quick swap was fixed. You can still use good positioning without standing there while you switch weapons.
This entire debate has been done to death really. All you have to do is search for any quick swap posts around the time it got patched, and you will see the exact same debate multiple times over.
@d3adst1ck consider a double gunner, he is so vulnerable during his reload or swap, the only option is to run. Yes, Sword vs Sword is good, but I am specifically talking about Dbl Gun vs Sword. Today sword can easily win by the fluency and movement it has access to, meanwhile, guns are slow, clunky, and vulnerable. Sword vs Sword is certainly fun and good, but removing guns out the equation is just disappointing. Not to forget quick swap is still a feature for swords/guns, which I find to be odd considering they "removed". This seems just to nerf guns overall, while they were perfect as they were.
sword quickswap
