Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment

If players are griefing you, report them via Rare.

You're trying to punish organic PvP in a PvPvE game simply because you incorrectly associate PvP with 'griefing/harassment'.

Now imagine for a second if someone suggested the 'Black Spot' for overly aggressive killing of sharks and skeletons because killing animals and sentient magical entities is griefing/toxic. It would sound ridiculous, no?

Safer Seas exists. Use it.

@s74n70 said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

Basically the thought is "if you're not doing this with reasonable purpose, then it's more likely you're doing this with malice and it's not fun for anyone else". This black spot should have a cool down, should it follow you if you re-instance? Possibly only if you then repeat the behaviour.

There is no such thing as "reasonable purpose". A player can attack you for literally any reason based on whatever is going through their head. Using the game's mechanics and their own game knowledge to their advantage is something that shouldn't be punished (note: inappropriate communications do not count, obviously). To do so, is making a game about "tools, not rules" a complete antithesis, especially since said game is a PvPvE adventure game, where anything can literally happen whether you want it to or not.

Actually, I think it would be great if you could mark a target ship with a bounty offer. Either a reward based on ship type, or that posts as half the value of loot carried by the one placing the bounty. There are bounty mechanics in other pvpve games so it isn't a new concept.

It would certainly stimulate some old fashioned pirate hunting to the broth. I could enjoy bounty hunting. Safer seas is working fine though.

@s74n70 said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

Players that overly attack other players, harassment, griefing, etc. will gain 'the black spot' ...... in proportion to how frequently you've been killing other pirates, and if that's all that you've been doing.

Your idea isn't balanced. People repeatedly defending against multiple allied ships would gain the spot here.
I posted an idea recently that has a risk VS reward benefit for such a mark, and more importantly, a reason to want to wear it. Tell me what you think of it.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/164597/suggestion-wearing-a-stolen-emissary-flag

PvP isn't griefing or harassment. Sinking you isn't griefing or harassment.

Props for citing Treasure Island though, my favorite book as a kid. Have you ever heard the audio book version on YouTube by Stephen Stanton? It's amazing. His voice acting is perfect.

That isn't a 'black spot'. A real black spot would be more like an icon everyone can see on the map, so they can act accordingly.

@guildar9194 said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

Actually, I think it would be great if you could mark a target ship with a bounty offer. Either a reward based on ship type, or that posts as half the value of loot carried by the one placing the bounty. There are bounty mechanics in other pvpve games so it isn't a new concept.

It would certainly stimulate some old fashioned pirate hunting to the broth. I could enjoy bounty hunting. Safer seas is working fine though.

Actually, I think it would be great if you could mark a target ship with a bounty offer.

No. It would be used to grief players and streamers.

There are bounty mechanics in other pvpve games so it isn't a new concept.

This is not other games. This is Sea of Thieves.

Thanks for the reminder. I was worried the title on the web page might be wrong or something.

The bounty ability is only active when provoked by damage dealt. If you didn't shoot first you can activate a bounty. That is how it was done elsewhere. Conditions must be met or it can't happen.

Plus the posting party has to pay or they can't post. Plus the fee is known, so if it's cheap it won't be worth the trouble. Plus nobody is safe from griefing anyway, except on safer seas. Plus it gives Streamers something new to stream about, because Hourglass can get boring to watch.

Plus this is Sea of Thieves and I think this fits. Whoever heard of a world where pirates didn't get bounties put on them?

Anyway, fair seas to you.

@s74n70 So introduce an actual griefing mechanism to combat PERCEIVED griefing (AKA Playing the game as intended)....what could go wrong with that?

@s74n70 punishing players for engaging in a playstyle just because you disagree with it is just a bad idea. What people define 'griefing' varies wildly and is very unique and subjective to individual. In terms of rares stance it is more specific but still judged on a case by case basis depending on reports.

Some people define toxicity as attacking without consent. I'd argue (and rare would tend to agree based on their responses) that it's the player expectation at issue there.
You can get banned for spawncamping without intent to sink, bucketing or repairing to keep people afloat etc. Some would enjoy the challenge of trying to break that camp though and not report it.

Yes people who enjoy pvp (I'm one of them) can be on average more Salty compared to others (don't consider myself one of these). But I'd say the majority of actual abusive not welcome in a game behaviour I've had has come from players that dislike pvp that have taken it personally when attacked (including those with reaper emissary that invites attention for anyone on server).

There isn't really such a thing as overly aggressive pvp. I personally disagree with sinking people and leaving their loot to despawn as it feels like gatekeeping. It's not against the rules though.

Punishing a way of play that has been an intended part of the experience is just a hard no. High seas gives much greater rewards because pvp is the risk you are taking for those rewards. This seems like a request made out of frustration of being attacked in the mode that is intended to let people attack and pirate your loot.

If you want people who attack you to be punished, then it should be you that finds a way to do so, not some mechanic that tries to disincentive an intended play style. Stealing your loot or sinking you is not griefing, or harassments and that has been well established. You consent to other players being able to attack you at any time from the moment you enter high seas.

So someone sinking me for my treasure, which is 100% normal gameplay, will now be punished with a bounty?
No.

You have that backwards. Example, I'm attacking you, I shoot first, you take damage and have an opportunity to set a bounty, by giving up half your loot or in the absence of loot pay a gold amount based on my ship size. Loot must be offered if you have it, you just can't spam gold. Gold bounty is low and fixed so people may just ignore a gold bounty, where they would possibly leap at half the loot value.

An attacker (me) will know I'm risking a bounty but the target ship may not decide to lose half their loot up front to post it. The target loses the right if they wait too long (1 minute after first blood). A rich target is a greater risk, a poor target can only offer the minimum bounty, which is less inviting, and less of a risk.

Plus the posting party has to pay or they can't post

Ok? Don't see how that makes it any less of a bad idea.

It means if you were attacked you don't get to put a bounty on me for free. You have to quickly decide if it's worth it or if you just want to fight to keep it all. Your going to get attacked either way, only now you have a choice Do you think you can save all your treasure or do you want to lose half to a bounty? The more ships I attack, the more likely I am to rack up a large bounty. You don't get to add more than half your loot, but a hundred ships worth would make for an epic prize if I were sailing like B. Roberts.

Plus the fee is known, so if it's cheap it won't be worth the trouble

Again; That does not mitigate it being a bad idea, given that anyone except newbies have hundreds of thousands, or millions, of gold.

But you can't spend millions, you can only spend from your deck, or the default gold price if you have no loot. I'm guessing 30k tops for a galleon, 20k for a brig, and 10k for a sloop, or what gold you have below those amounts. It adds to the running bounty so multiple encounters can stack if you get attacked again. It's like reputation, but can be lost.

Plus nobody is safe from griefing anyway, except on safer seas.

That's not an excuse to add another mechanic to be abused.

My point is that abuse is endemic. Whatever you are doing I can come over and mess it up, and you can't put a bounty on me for it. I'm able to (theoretically,) keep squashing your efforts all day with zero fear for my reputation. I might even be praised for it by some. I can always fall back on 'This is Sea of Thieves' if some noob complains. Or some streamer. It's all the same in the end.

Plus it gives Streamers something new to stream about, because Hourglass can get boring to watch.

Except for those streamers who would rather not have a bounty put on them just for engaging in the game's PvP. But I guess they don't count, because you think HG is boring to watch?

I wouldn't apply it to Hourglass. That's it's own thing.

Look, everyone says if you play you have to risk pvp. This just heightens it and focuses it. Hourglass is more fun to do than watch, am I wrong? They can stream whatever, but a few have dropped Hourglass entirely. Now if a dread pirate should appear they can chase an all new kind of reputation for themselves. By having many battles in the high seas, you can gain a huge bounty that remains unclaimed until someone defeats you! Yes, it should stay on you till claimed, like legends of old!

Plus this is Sea of Thieves and I think this fits.

And other players think chase cannons, mortars, axes to melee-damage ships, the blunderbuss should be capped at 90 damage, and that Sovereigns should take a cut of all treasure, all fit Sea of Thieves.
You can think it, but I can also point out the flaws.

With respect, I think I've addressed the 'flaws' in my proposal well enough, but I agree with your broader concerns. Chase cannons ruin the ship balance, cannons practically already are mortars, and who brings an axe to a keg fight?! Etc. I'm not looking to change the whole thing, but it would be sweet to rack up a huge bounty, or to take down the ship that had one. This idea won't get traction so ...

Either way! Fair seas.

Players that overly attack other players, harassment, griefing, etc. will gain 'the black spot' on their character

So….anyone who attacks anyone will have the kraken spawn on them because they were acting like a pirate in a pirate game. As the game was sold and bought because of that.

Not harassment or grief. But simply sinking them for loot.

If you can’t take being sunk.
Go. Play. Safer Seas.

Game already has a bounty system. Emissaries.

Targeting another player is against ToS.

We don't need this system, people need thicker skin and to learn how to curate their experiences.

just today i got mindlessly sunk by a crew, and in return i sunk them. we had a blast.

@pithyrumble said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

Game already has a bounty system. Emissaries.

Targeting another player is against ToS.

We don't need this system, people need thicker skin and to learn how to curate their experiences.

Yeah, OK I concede about Emissaries being similar.

TOS? 🤔In pvp the other guy is always your target. I think I remember something about what is and isn't griefing, and how farming people for supplies is totally cool, or was that someone else I was talking to. 😉

Well Safer Seas then ...

To your Emissary point, they are targeted as well. A bounty isn't that different except it can't start till someone gets hurt and that means pvp was already going on there. Why are pvp people suddenly afraid of pvp consequences? I agree a lot of people could do with thicker skins.

We had a game called 'keep-away' when I was a kid. I guess the rules might vary from playground to playground. Basically one of us had a football and all we had to do was keep it from everyone else till the bell rang or we got tackled however long it took, whichever happened first. Rinse and repeat. Kids got banged up good. You had to want the ball and all that came with it.

A bounty is like that. You want to attack lots of ships? Do it! You want to have pvp? Have it! All of it! You want bragging rights? They would be yours until they became someone else's. Only you provoke it with pvp combat, not by raising a flag and running.

If you seek pvp and receive it how is it wrong? If implemented well it would be no more abusive then a typical Tuesday. Pve on High Seas would be better. Pvp would be more focused on those who want the ball, which would also be better.

I don't expect this to ever happen, but I sincerely wish it would. ✌️

@locke5474677 said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

just today i got mindlessly sunk by a crew, and in return i sunk them. we had a blast.

Cool! 👍🎸

@foambreaker said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky "...With respect, I think I've addressed the 'flaws' in my proposal ..."

Funny, the OP was @S74N70 agreeing with your alt?

I could have broke that post into clearer sentences.

Yyy@foambreaker said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@foambreaker said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky "...With respect, I think I've addressed the 'flaws' in my proposal ..."

Funny, the OP was @S74N70 agreeing with your alt?

I could have broke that post into clearer sentences.

"My proposal" could not be clearer.

1. Make post with alt
2. Use other alts to make it look like the idea has support
3. circa 1997, fools no one

Plus, oh look, this is not the only thread like this...

Well I'm pretty sure the moderators know what's what even if you don't. Which, wow, you really don't.

I did notice some similar discussion on another topic, but I see all kinds of matching opinions from people who have different views from me. Are they all alting then?

I think you are caught with nothing to say and are trying to change the subject.

So 2nd grade, and it fools no one.

Do you have anything rational to add, or is farther discussion with you a waste of time?? Bounties could be awesome, but you don't want it, and can't make the idea look bad, so you try this disappointing tactic.

Take it to the mods then. Or attack the idea properly if you think you are capable. Here 🍀🤞

@hiradc said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@s74n70 punishing players for engaging in a playstyle just because you disagree with it is just a bad idea. What people define 'griefing' varies wildly and is very unique and subjective to individual. In terms of rares stance it is more specific but still judged on a case by case basis depending on reports.

Some people define toxicity as attacking without consent. I'd argue (and rare would tend to agree based on their responses) that it's the player expectation at issue there.
You can get banned for spawncamping without intent to sink, bucketing or repairing to keep people afloat etc. Some would enjoy the challenge of trying to break that camp though and not report it.

Yes people who enjoy pvp (I'm one of them) can be on average more Salty compared to others (don't consider myself one of these). But I'd say the majority of actual abusive not welcome in a game behaviour I've had has come from players that dislike pvp that have taken it personally when attacked (including those with reaper emissary that invites attention for anyone on server).

There isn't really such a thing as overly aggressive pvp. I personally disagree with sinking people and leaving their loot to despawn as it feels like gatekeeping. It's not against the rules though.

I wanted to say I like this post of yours.

For my part I was thinking a bounty could be fun overall and not a punishment system. I think that part got lost somewhere. I know OP mentions griefing, but leave that aside. Right now we already have some bits of a similar system in game, but it could be tighter. Emissaries get targeted, Reapers etc. What about the true rogue pirate?

Think of having a bounty as an aspiration. Only rich targets would get you noticed, and glory hounds and such would offer endless opportunity for battle from those who relish it. The pvp players could hunt a clearly worthy pvp ship. Well see the other posts. I'm not here to punish. Just liked the black spot on a certain level.
✌️

@d3adst1ck said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

The bounty ability is only active when provoked by damage dealt. If you didn't shoot first you can activate a bounty. That is how it was done elsewhere. Conditions must be met or it can't happen.

I've played games that try this. All that ends up happening is a player will goad the other into damaging first. If a ship is coming at you full speed are you going to wait until they fire first? Odds are if you do, you're going to get sunk - so naturally you raise defenses first. Uh oh, now you've given your attacker the ability to set a bounty on you.

Basing PvP flags or bounties or anything else on "first damage" is a terrible idea because it poorly defines aggression in a lot of scenarios.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm playing it through my mind and while I'd considered it a possibility, I don't think that is a fatal problem. They still have to front the bounty price to post it so that inhibits the tactic somewhat. I'll think more on it.

It might also result in more ships attempting dialog before shooting. Might be fun.

Fair seas

@foambreaker said in Introduce the 'Black Spot' for Overly Aggressive PvP / griefing / harassment:

@valhalla-sky So then I get a friend to kill me for the bounty, because I don't get all emo over one pixel death.

Plus in most bounty systems people kill more because the size of the bounty is a badge of honor.

The prize in play remains the same whether you get it, your friend gets it, or those other guys get it. Also I guess your friend gets all your other loot also?

Of course the bounty is a badge of honor. Poor targets won't increase it as much, will slow you down, cost you resources, or they might take the bounty for you if they fight well. This was kind of a 5am coffee idea. It has rough edges and could be awesome.

It will probably never happen, so I don't know why I care, but it I keep seeing what I think it would look like in my head. If it came to pass I'd probably be terrible at getting a very big bounty. I'd have to try it though. As one gamer to another I wish you could see it the way I do. If you like pvp I think you would like this.

It's hard to put thoughts into words. Each thought a thousand pictures, each picture a thousand words trying to describe the most epic running nonstop pirate ship battle you ever saw. It's alright. I'm sure you are safe from my crazy idea.

Sincerely, good night and good sailing. ☕

@valhalla-sky there are already elements of this attention drawing. Reapers emissary, guild 5 emissary, champion streak for hourglass. They all show on the map to everyone on the server.

Never say never but if you keep adding to the pool of things that show on the map then you risk it becoming diluted and nothing standing out.