Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design. They know it, too, which is why they keep player density low so it doesn't happen so often that the PvEers quit.
Well... it's happened enough the past few days that me and my son are taking a break from the game. I would pay a monthly fee to play on a private or PvE server with progression.
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design. They know it, too, which is why they keep player density low so it doesn't happen so often that the PvEers quit.
Well... it's happened enough the past few days that me and my son are taking a break from the game. I would pay a monthly fee to play on a private or PvE server with progression.
That is completely false and shows that you don't actually know anything about the game itself.
The reason why they keep playing count low is because the servers can barely handle it. Bugs, hit registration, and basically all the mechanical issues are because the servers are already being pushed to the limit. Which is why they lowered the player count to 5 recently, to help with hit registration.
PvE'ers aren't used a some kind of treat for PvP'ers. You are suppose to learn how to defend yourself and if you fail to do so then that would be a personal problem and I suggest you rectify that by learning how to play. I can PvE just fine and never have any issues. I can also PvP just fine. Also your view of what is unethical game design is also a personal issue. Your morality has little to do with another dev team's game design.
There is an entirely simple fix to all your problems. Get better at the game.
You will get to play on your private servers all you want. With zero progression as it should be.
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design. They know it, too, which is why they keep player density low so it doesn't happen so often that the PvEers quit.
Well... it's happened enough the past few days that me and my son are taking a break from the game. I would pay a monthly fee to play on a private or PvE server with progression.
Euhm... if anyone wants to think I am an offering while I am doing PvE, feel free to drop by and we will see who ends up in the offering pit. This is a PvEvP game, you are just as much of a pirate as those that come by to steal your loot... you aren't a merchant out and about that is helpless. The only person that makes themselves the offering is you... not them.
Anyone that buys a PvEvP game and expects to never encounter PvP... kind of missed the point of the genre. The game provides the tools for you to flee and play around the PvP element or the weaponry to stand your ground and fight or a speaking horn to test your negotiation skills... which ever path you choose is yours, but it is you that will need to execute it. You are in control of your adventure.
So it seems RARE is leaving money on the table. Take your current game, strip out the PVP stuff that people don't like, name it Sea of Adventures, and sell the dang box for $40.
Lots of people love an open water, hunt for treasure, solve the puzzle stuff. A lot of those same people don't like having their ship sunk while they state at an X map in the middle of the island.
The PVP I have encountered has been lackluster at best. Gank crews of 4v1 taking out an empty boat so they can have my loot - whatever. Sinking my respawn point, setting me back an hour on my chain voyage, etc... my time is important to me. The game and its players are able to disrespect that time investment b/c PvEvP - Lame and direct excuse.
RARE made a great game with a very fun engine and LOTS of PvE content for us SHEEP to gather with. As for the bottom line, they would be foolish not to just make a PvE title and sell it to that crowd. So glad I did the xbox pass for $1. No way would I spend full price on a title to just have random trolls sink me all day. The player base is pretty lame and I am on like day 3 of playing. Nothing sours my mood more than seeing a player ship sail by me. That is the problem, nothing else like this game on the market for people who just want to sail open waters with some friends and have some lite "pirate" adventures.
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design. They know it, too, which is why they keep player density low so it doesn't happen so often that the PvEers quit.
Well... it's happened enough the past few days that me and my son are taking a break from the game. I would pay a monthly fee to play on a private or PvE server with progression.
Unethical? Accusing a gaming studio of being "unethical" is actually quite the accusation. If you do not want to PvP then simply do not play games with PvP in them. Calling a studio "unethical" over it is a rather ridiculous.
I hope you and your son can find a new game to play together. Maybe look for one without PvP.
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design.
I don't think Rare has a gun to your head forcing you to play their game. If you don't like PvPvE games, don't play PvPvE games.
@tyfex3896 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
So it seems RARE is leaving money on the table. Take your current game, strip out the PVP stuff that people don't like, name it Sea of Adventures, and sell the dang box for $40.
They are doing very well though, they have a growing player base and are focused on making their current game and target customer happy. Why would they even bother with that?
People always come here and talk about how businesses should do this or do that inorder to make more money. That is not always the secret to success. I speak from someone with experience.
@mferr11 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design.
I don't think Rare has a gun to your head forcing you to play their game. If you don't like PvPvE games, don't play PvPvE games.
Sometimes it sure does sound that way around here!
There is a MEGA thread discussing this topic of people wanting a PvE style game. Its a silly argument to make, saying that a PvE version of this game wouldn't sell - they have a player-base asking for it since launch.
Say whatever you want, it won't change the fact that I will stop playing this game since I don't like my time wasted. Nothing fun about being the sheep for wolves, nothing fun about having progress reset, nothing FUN about it. See the problem? Games are supposed to be fun and a large set of players feel as I do, hence the MEGA thread.
Keep your PvEvP game - I won't play it. Just you know, release a game that looks the same, sails the same, has a lot of the same PvE content, and remove the annoying playerbase for me. I will pay for that, as I am sure others would too - so yes, definitively they are leaving money on the table.
@combatxkitty I have to agree, despite any issue I have with PVP, even I would not go so far as to call them "Unethical". (especially for game, its not like this is a literal hunger games or anything)
The reason why they keep playing count low is because the servers can barely handle it. Bugs, hit registration, and basically all the mechanical issues are because the servers are already being pushed to the limit. Which is why they lowered the player count to 5 recently, to help with hit registration.
I got to agree here. Honestly I cannot imagine the issues that would be present if they increased player density (technically speaking at least).
@john-arkham
While some will continue to partake in pve in the PvPvE mode, their number would decrease, increasing the chance of aggressive interactions, which would in turn change the risk / reward proposition, appealing to even less pve activities. The most logical outcome would be that only purely pvp players and the extreme end of risk lovers would en up on PvPvE servers, purely pve players on PvE servers. Leaving no real home for the middle of the curve PvPvE players.
I cannot disagree with the logic your presenting , I am simply more optimistic about the outcome of such an implementation. Though I appreciate the understanding that its a subjective viewpoint. Obviously anything is possible, and we can only guess as to which would occur.
@tyfex3896 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
There is a MEGA thread discussing this topic of people wanting a PvE style game. Its a silly argument to make, saying that a PvE version of this game wouldn't sell - they have a player-base asking for it since launch.
Did you read the title? Its PvE and PvP playstyle discussion, so its not just all about PvE.
My post went over your head. I never said a PvE version of the game would not sell. I simply said why would they create a PvE version of their game? You want them to release and market an entire new game identical to their own but without PvP and call it Sea of Adventures? What? Why? I mean why would they waste time and resources when they have a successful game now? "Saying well they can make money!" is a generic response from someone whom I guess has no business background, correct me if I am wrong.
Say whatever you want, it won't change the fact that I will stop playing this game since I don't like my time wasted. Nothing fun about being the sheep for wolves, nothing fun about having progress reset, nothing FUN about it. See the problem? Games are supposed to be fun and a large set of players feel as I do, hence the MEGA thread.
Progress reset? There is zero progress resetting in this game. Not sure what you are talking about. I play games with progress reset and SOT is not it. I am pretty much a PvE'r in this game and I do just fine. I see a problem with people who do not understand what a PvPvE game is coming here and getting angry about SOT having PvP in it.
I do agree with you games are supposed to be fun. However not all games are everyones idea of fun. If I did not have fun on SOT I would not play either so if you are not having fun on SOT then sure dont play, I dont blame you one bit.
As far as this megathread. Myself and other posters had mention in threads to create one because we had an issue with alt accounts and one and done's and there was a rummer alliance server discords were having people create accounts to flood the feedback section so anyways that is why this was created.
Sure this thread is the hot mess of the forum however Im not saying nothing good can come from it. I mean I myself would not mind a PvE mode that did not compete with adventure, something different and fun however I just do not see direct competition with the Main Game happening. Custom servers are coming so lets see what that is all about. I personally would not mind one day a rent able private server with locked progress either. However I see that more down the road.
Keep your PvEvP game - I won't play it. Just you know, release a game that looks the same, sails the same, has a lot of the same PvE content, and remove the annoying playerbase for me. I will pay for that, as I am sure others would too - so yes, definitively they are leaving money on the table.
"annoying playerbase" Its always people with negative attitudes who seem to come here with all these issues with others. Not everyone is annoying. Some people are pretty cool on there. Why not try finding a crew here or using discord? I have met up with some great people from the forum and we have a blast. I met my bestfriend on this game. Do you have a crew? Have you tried reaching out to other players?
EDIT: I think I know what you meant by progress reset. You dig treasure and then lose it. Sorry I play game were if you die you literally get a new character and start all over from scratch so thats why I was confused. Rare is adding in next update I am pretty sure getting rep during voyages just not when cashing in and they already added Tale Tale check points, this should help with that.
I do have a background in business and taking products/services to market. If you want to make money, you make what sells. The fact that there are players that enjoy all the PvE aspects of this game, and not the PvP portion means they are here b/c they don't have somewhere else they can be. So, SOT has a winning recipe for the PvE crowd, but force them to partake in a portion of the game they don't enjoy. So.. strip that portion, brand it something different, and sell? Cola, Diet Cola, Cola Zero.. you get the point? its changing a couple of the ingredients and making a new product for a different market, since your original product was such a success. It is good business.
"Time is money" as the saying goes. So while there isn't progression reset, there is a since of "sunk" time. Time you aren't getting back and you got nothing for it. That is the rub that makes PvE players quit. Everything is enjoyable in the moment, until something sets you back and you are faced with the loss. It isn't a big loss, no not at all. That isn't the point. The point is there are players out there that just don't like PvP in any regard. So why not make them their own brand of game with your winning recipe and tweak the ingredient they don't like?
When referring to the annoying player-base, I am referring to literally the annoying players I have encountered playing this game in the last 3 days. I want to say 4 out of 5 encounters with other players were just plain toxic. Trashtalking with the mic, 4v1/4v2 encounters. Sinking empty boats to force distant respawns, etc. Just doing whatever they can to slow me down, trip me up, or take the wind out of my sails. I guess when you are at the peak of the game, farmed all your cosmetics, and have nothing left to gain or lose, it leaves you to just troll the newbies. For that reason, I don't drink plain Cola.
I'd be happy to pay for a different product that is a LOT like SOT, just doesn't have the PvP aspect. It isn't a hard concept to understand, and apparently there is a gap in the market for a game like that.
@xultanis-dragon I don't even know where to begin with this. First and foremost I can't speak for all PvEers, but I personally have a moral quandary with competition on its core fundamental level. I disagree with the concept of competition in nature itself. I'm one of those "why can't we all get along" sorts. I have NEVER asked for any PvE content to be nerfed, and in fact I'd love for some of the things you mentioned to be made more challenging. PvP just goes against my core personal beliefs on competition. I won't engage, I won't compete. That's simply how I play my games. Now, I'll continue to play Sea of Thieves with my friends on small crafts, we will continue our merchant ways and slowly grind towards finishing the tall tales but I will never engage in PvP. If you or any other pirate fires on me, we immediately server hop. So, if nothing changes my friends and I will still be happy with the adventure we are crafting for ourselves within the game, one that doesn't involve other pirates unless those people are also our friends. There should be enough challenge in a PvE sense that we don't 'need' PvP to pose a threat to our loot. They SHOULD buff up the Kraken again, make skeleton ships more common and powerful. Add in more types of roadblocks to progression from a PvE standpoint. Make both sides of the game just as intriguing and exhilarating. Do not dramatize the situation about the playerbase split either. We both know, as does everyone here, that PvP only servers would be wildly popular amongst the Sea of Thieves community. As would PvE only servers. Hence the creation of this topic in the first place. It is clearly a widely debated topic, so as much as you want to tell us to "shut up and git good", Rare wants to hear ALL sides of the topic, or we wouldn't be where we are right now. The fact that people are still having the same complaints tells ya something, for sure. I still stand firmly by my suggestion/opinion. We should have a choice what sort of high seas adventure we want to go on. There are many ways to be a 'Pirate'. Hell, I would've even be against adding NPC dialogue systems, character traits and perks that would allow us to swindle NPCs. Perhaps there will be other PvE crafts sailing the seas that we can sink and loot, or could sink us. That would be fine and swell.
Players employ some of the most game-bending methods of combat imaginable. I bought this to play a video game, not take a full-on college course on the intricacies of various pirate combat styles. How to pull off this exploit versus that. It's not why I'm here, not why my friends are here. I know so many like us will continue to have the same concerns, and ask for a separate mode. Again, as to your accusation that people like us want it 'easy', that is far from the truth. I would LOVE to see more challenge added to what's in the game, and more PvE events that push players to their boundaries. Just...no PvP for me thanks.
I have played this game since release. I have my day 1 eye patch. I am in several of the advertising videos. I have seen so much added to this game and I find it a LOT of fun. With that said, I see absolutely no downside to a pve server. Full progression even. Giving the player choices is a good thing. It will promote a huge influx of players that have been screaming for this since the beginning. With them come their wallets spending money on cosmetics. If someone just wants to run tales or hunt NPC let them. Who cares. They will get into the game at their own speed, and likely venture onto a regular server. If not. Who cares ?? Why do people have to play a certain way. Or not play at all because they dont like pvp. We should WANT PEOPLE PLAYING. I just cant understand this argument. Progression dose not matter. With the invent of these aliance servers people can have millions of gold and max factions at record speed. Seriously, Millions an hour. A pve server would SLOW progression.
I love the game as is. But I think giving the player a choice is a good thing.
Money is walking. Terrible business idea.
The point is there are players out there that just don't like PvP in any regard. So why not make them their own brand of game with your winning recipe and tweak the ingredient they don't like?
Because it will mess with a key ingredient in your current product, namely the player pool out of which the server is created. The game is founded on the idea of player interaction, a shared world adventure where players with different motivations and playstyles meet and interact. Which players are in the world will therefore be a very key aspect of that world, simply taking what you have... molding it into something else and taking your current product to extract a specific play style means that the mix you were trying to create is now no longer balanced in the same degree.
If you have a cola, but you extract the sugar and offer it in a different format lets say sugar clumps... because you know there is a market for that. Will the cola still taste the same?
@cotu42
No. It wont.
people are not playing at all because of PVP.
Our normal servers would remain just fine as they are now. In fact I bet you after a short time we would see a increase in players.
@kazzy1917 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@xultanis-dragon I don't even know where to begin with this. First and foremost I can't speak for all PvEers, but I personally have a moral quandary with competition on its core fundamental level. I disagree with the concept of competition in nature itself. I'm one of those "why can't we all get along" sorts. I have NEVER asked for any PvE content to be nerfed, and in fact I'd love for some of the things you mentioned to be made more challenging. PvP just goes against my core personal beliefs on competition. I won't engage, I won't compete. That's simply how I play my games. Now, I'll continue to play Sea of Thieves with my friends on small crafts, we will continue our merchant ways and slowly grind towards finishing the tall tales but I will never engage in PvP. If you or any other pirate fires on me, we immediately server hop. So, if nothing changes my friends and I will still be happy with the adventure we are crafting for ourselves within the game, one that doesn't involve other pirates unless those people are also our friends. There should be enough challenge in a PvE sense that we don't 'need' PvP to pose a threat to our loot. They SHOULD buff up the Kraken again, make skeleton ships more common and powerful. Add in more types of roadblocks to progression from a PvE standpoint. Make both sides of the game just as intriguing and exhilarating. Do not dramatize the situation about the playerbase split either. We both know, as does everyone here, that PvP only servers would be wildly popular amongst the Sea of Thieves community. As would PvE only servers. Hence the creation of this topic in the first place. It is clearly a widely debated topic, so as much as you want to tell us to "shut up and git good", Rare wants to hear ALL sides of the topic, or we wouldn't be where we are right now. The fact that people are still having the same complaints tells ya something, for sure. I still stand firmly by my suggestion/opinion. We should have a choice what sort of high seas adventure we want to go on. There are many ways to be a 'Pirate'. Hell, I would've even be against adding NPC dialogue systems, character traits and perks that would allow us to swindle NPCs. Perhaps there will be other PvE crafts sailing the seas that we can sink and loot, or could sink us. That would be fine and swell.
Players employ some of the most game-bending methods of combat imaginable. I bought this to play a video game, not take a full-on college course on the intricacies of various pirate combat styles. How to pull off this exploit versus that. It's not why I'm here, not why my friends are here. I know so many like us will continue to have the same concerns, and ask for a separate mode. Again, as to your accusation that people like us want it 'easy', that is far from the truth. I would LOVE to see more challenge added to what's in the game, and more PvE events that push players to their boundaries. Just...no PvP for me thanks.
What he said, ditto, exactly that.
@naero2 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@cotu42
No. It wont.
people are not playing at all because of PVP.
Our normal servers would remain just fine as they are now. In fact I bet you after a short time we would see a increase in players.
Really? And what are you basing this on? Are only players that currently not playing the game going to use this option? Are those players that fill their PvE needs in the new PvE mode going to enter our beautiful PvEvP mode to do PvE or are they just going to become what they claim they hate the most about the game to go out there and hunt other pirates?
Therefore what you are saying, players want to do their PvE without ever being hit by a pirate. Yet when they feel like it they want to join the Adventure mode to hit everyone else... if you are unable to handle people hitting you, what gives you the right to come and hit others? We on the Adventure mode side, the PvEvP genre side, are not there to be your punchbags. We take our beatings with pride, because we know sometimes were are the ones dishing them out. That is the nature of a PvEvP game.
@naero2 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
I have played this game since release. I have my day 1 eye patch. I am in several of the advertising videos. I have seen so much added to this game and I find it a LOT of fun. With that said, I see absolutely no downside to a pve server. Full progression even. Giving the player choices is a good thing. It will promote a huge influx of players that have been screaming for this since the beginning. With them come their wallets spending money on cosmetics. If someone just wants to run tales or hunt NPC let them. Who cares. They will get into the game at their own speed, and likely venture onto a regular server. If not. Who cares ?? Why do people have to play a certain way. Or not play at all because they dont like pvp. We should WANT PEOPLE PLAYING. I just cant understand this argument. Progression dose not matter. With the invent of these aliance servers people can have millions of gold and max factions at record speed. Seriously, Millions an hour. A pve server would SLOW progression.
I love the game as is. But I think giving the player a choice is a good thing.
Money is walking. Terrible business idea.
I'd buy at least 10 copies for friends and family alone, who would enjoy a game like this, that is just good ol' pirate style fun. The game is gorgeous, the mechanics are great, and I just want to enjoy the adventures and stories me and my friends can make. If in the off event night I feel like PvPing, I can just click the pvp button at the adventure mode select screen.
@tyfex3896 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@naero2 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
I have played this game since release. I have my day 1 eye patch. I am in several of the advertising videos. I have seen so much added to this game and I find it a LOT of fun. With that said, I see absolutely no downside to a pve server. Full progression even. Giving the player choices is a good thing. It will promote a huge influx of players that have been screaming for this since the beginning. With them come their wallets spending money on cosmetics. If someone just wants to run tales or hunt NPC let them. Who cares. They will get into the game at their own speed, and likely venture onto a regular server. If not. Who cares ?? Why do people have to play a certain way. Or not play at all because they dont like pvp. We should WANT PEOPLE PLAYING. I just cant understand this argument. Progression dose not matter. With the invent of these aliance servers people can have millions of gold and max factions at record speed. Seriously, Millions an hour. A pve server would SLOW progression.
I love the game as is. But I think giving the player a choice is a good thing.
Money is walking. Terrible business idea.I'd buy at least 10 copies for friends and family alone, who would enjoy a game like this, that is just good ol' pirate style fun. The game is gorgeous, the mechanics are great, and I just want to enjoy the adventures and stories me and my friends can make. If in the off event night I feel like PvPing, I can just click the pvp button at the adventure mode select screen.
Aah the classic, I will buy it and play my PVE needs in peace. I will just hit that Adventure button when I am ready to be the PVP bully! I will hit you, but will never place myself in a position to be hit. You the Adventure mode community, are my punching bag! Just don't hit me back... you bully! give me a PVE mode.
This here is the problem with the PVE requests. This is not a PVEVP game what you are asking for. You do not want to play a shared world game.
@cotu42
You sound upset. But, Yes.
The player should have the choice to play as they wish. How is someone flip flopping pvp or no pvp upsetting to you? Let them pve their butts off. If they get bored and want some spice, common over.
Really....I just dont get it.
You will still have me to shoot at =)
Sadly, you aren't seeing the potential from a strict PvE players perspective. The games PvE side is so strong, that there are people who want to only consume that side of the product. The Product itself can support both populations, thrive even. Games like The Division, give players the choice in the side of the product that best suits their play style, in the moment, at any given moment of the players choosing. That is player choice and empowerment, which would make the game appeal to a broader audience, thus driving sales, increasing revenues, which in turn builds a better product for the consumer. I REALLY don't understand how this is such a hard concept to grasp. Let the product support the product. LISTEN TO YOUR CONSUMER BASE ASKING FOR SOMETHING!! It is THAT simple.
@naero2 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@cotu42
You sound upset. But, Yes.
The player should have the choice to play as they wish. How is someone flip flopping pvp or no pvp upsetting to you? Let them pve their butts off. If they get bored and want some spice, common over.
Really....I just dont get it.
You will still have me to shoot at =)
Join us in the adventure mode, you have all the tools to PVE to your hearts content. I literally do PVE all the time on a solo boat... and know how to haul in huge amounts of gold.
If you want to be the one handing out the punches, you have to be able to take some yourself. You cannot ask for people to be your punching bags, but that the game should protect you if they want to hit you back.
@tyfex3896 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
I do have a background in business and taking products/services to market. If you want to make money, you make what sells. The fact that there are players that enjoy all the PvE aspects of this game, and not the PvP portion means they are here b/c they don't have somewhere else they can be. So, SOT has a winning recipe for the PvE crowd, but force them to partake in a portion of the game they don't enjoy. So.. strip that portion, brand it something different, and sell? Cola, Diet Cola, Cola Zero.. you get the point? its changing a couple of the ingredients and making a new product for a different market, since your original product was such a success. It is good business.
Sure as someone with a background in business then you should also understand why focusing on target market and not simply releasing product to make more profit is always a good idea. I dont think comparing video games to sodas work at all. Even with coke, diet coke, coke zero its still coke right? SOT is a PvPvE genre game you want them to completely switch genres. I helped a friend start up a law practice, helped run a boutique with one other and also currently launching a pet design business(I am a woman of many trades lol). Example, for the shop sure there were items we could have added to expand profit however at end of the day we focused on our target especially since we were doing well with it. Trust me a I saw another shop adding cheaper clothes to their store. I asked her why and she said "to get more customers!". Well it looks good on paper however our shop stuck with high end and what our target wants. Sure we could have put out a cheap clothing rack and yeah made more money however it was not worth alienating our base and not worth the time and resources because yes time is money for people who are not even our target customer.
Rare has their target market which is the PvPvE'r. They are still a relatively new game and their Main Adventure still in my opinion needs more pizzazz. I think from a business stand point it would be foolish of them to create and market a new game. You did not say simply add a PvE mode you want a new game to be designed and brought to market. We can disagree on it but to me it makes no business sense to do that and I guarantee you they wont do it for this very reason. Rare devs have already grumbled about how much time it would take them to add a PvE mode.
If I am wrong please come back and let me know however I do not think I am. Time shall see.
"Time is money" as the saying goes. So while there isn't progression reset, there is a since of "sunk" time. Time you aren't getting back and you got nothing for it. That is the rub that makes PvE players quit. Everything is enjoyable in the moment, until something sets you back and you are faced with the loss. It isn't a big loss, no not at all. That isn't the point. The point is there are players out there that just don't like PvP in any regard. So why not make them their own brand of game with your winning recipe and tweak the ingredient they don't like?
Time is money but not when you are playing a video game.
When referring to the annoying player-base, I am referring to literally the annoying players I have encountered playing this game in the last 3 days. I want to say 4 out of 5 encounters with other players were just plain toxic. Trashtalking with the mic, 4v1/4v2 encounters. Sinking empty boats to force distant respawns, etc. Just doing whatever they can to slow me down, trip me up, or take the wind out of my sails. I guess when you are at the peak of the game, farmed all your cosmetics, and have nothing left to gain or lose, it leaves you to just troll the newbies. For that reason, I don't drink plain Cola.
Well have you only played three days? Look I am not going to sit here and pretend people are always pleasant. PvP, PvE , PvPvE does not matter, online gaming requires no personality tests to access. Just last night I was on a game with my friend and some random guy started messaging. me that I was his "ho" and a "his B" and to do nasty things to him. Then he started to message her. We were literally minding our own business, no idea who this guy was.
Im a day one player and I will go out of my way to help newbies or anyone who needs it. Just a couple weeks ago had the chance with my crew to rob a new player on a sloop blind however we didnt and instead tried to help them. Trust me we arnt the only nice people out there. Also keep in mind just because you know your ship is empty does not mean other players do not. I dont agree with trash talk however if someone is simply just sinking you they arnt being "toxic".
You may want to try to find a crew or some cool people to sail with, could be an entire new experience for you.
I'd be happy to pay for a different product that is a LOT like SOT, just doesn't have the PvP aspect. It isn't a hard concept to understand, and apparently there is a gap in the market for a game like that.
Well good luck then.
Rare has their target market which is the PvPvE'r. They are still a relatively new game and their Main Adventure still in my opinion needs more pizzazz. I think from a business stand point it would be foolish of them to create and market a new game. You did not say simply add a PvE mode you want a new game to be designed and brought to market. We can disagree on it but to me it makes no business sense to do that and I guarantee you they wont do it for this very reason. Rare devs have already grumbled about how much time it would take them to add a PvE mode.
That was more of a tongue in cheek request, as it is understood that the game has the word "Thieves" in it, and that somehow HAS to reflect it be the player base that do the Thievin' all the time.
My point is, if Rare doesn't want to support the PvE request in the base product itself, as an option prior to loading adventure mode ala "PvE or PvPvE" mode selection, which supports a broader community as a whole. I sincerely believe that option will attract people to buy the product, but if they refuse to make it, then someone should sincerely copy this games PvE formula, mechanics in all, and make a pirate game. The market needs one, knowing there is a HUGE community of High Fantasy Pirate RP/PvE players, that would love nothing more to ally with other players and raid the PvE encounters, splitting the treasure. Its a fun sandbox story adventure game in all its own right, without the need to have negative encounters with other players. There is enough of a pool for each to swim in their chosen waters. Let players have a choice and grow your community.
@tyfex3896 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Sadly, you aren't seeing the potential from a strict PvE players perspective.
Yet you yourself stated you are not wanting a strict PVE players perspective. You want to be able to hit that Adventure mode button and come and PVP...
Then learn to use the tools in the game! You can play pure PVE in this game without ever shooting at a fellow pirate. It is literally an open world sandbox game that offers everything you need to play the game in the style of your choice. You just actually need to play it and execute your style. You know how I know this is possible... I have literally done the PVE as a solo. I just don't need to hit a different menu button to keep myself safe, I take the tools the game provides and learn to use them. I play the game, instead of asking for the game to keep me safe when I don't want to be hit, but expect the game to allow me to hit others when I want to. PvEvP players are not here to be the punching bags of the strict PVE people nor the loot piñata's for the strict PVP people. We are PvEvP players, we expect everyone to do both elements of the game and Rare to provide us with the incentives to do just that.
The games PvE side is so strong, that there are people who want to only consume that side of the product. The Product itself can support both populations, thrive even. Games like The Division, give players the choice in the side of the product that best suits their play style, in the moment, at any given moment of the players choosing. That is player choice and empowerment, which would make the game appeal to a broader audience, thus driving sales, increasing revenues, which in turn builds a better product for the consumer. I REALLY don't understand how this is such a hard concept to grasp. Let the product support the product. LISTEN TO YOUR CONSUMER BASE ASKING FOR SOMETHING!! It is THAT simple.
Division isn't really a PvEvP game though, it has two very distinct fields they offer and sure they do it pretty well. Yet that just means they offer a PvE or PvP style and they reward both. Rare kinda tried making a PvP choice and reward it... it is called the Arena and that flopped. See it as a proof of concept, which failed. So... yeah... doubt they want to go that route and move away from the PvEvP concept they started out with and made them successful. A PVE game with a PVP option is just not the same as a PvEvP game and that is the consumer base mainly for Sea of Thieves.
Let me put it in a way you maybe understand better:
HERE IS A CONSUMER ASKING TO NOT ADD IT! LISTEN TO YOUR CONSUMER BASE! I WILL LEAVE THE GAME IF YOU ADD IT... ooh wait... we are yelling different things... what now? You aren't asking for the product to support the product, you are asking it to compete with itself.
What is the hard concept to grasp here, the demographic of the game is a PvEvP one. Therefore their target audience kinda wants a shared open world that they promised. You can go like the strict PVErs want this, the strict PVPers want this... but that isn't the consumer base they focus on. We don't want the game to fight with itself to determine who wins the PVE style or the PVP style... we want them to mingle, be intertwined chill out together hoomie.
You offer cola, yet coffee is really popular as well, but so is beer... Should you try and dominate all those markets by adjusting your cola or stick to your own? That is the better comparison when you are talking about game genres. Sure they are all drinks, but they have some real core differences. I like them all, but doesn't mean I want my cola to start tasting more like coffee or beer, just because some people would like it and they only like one type of drink. The options the game offers isn't different products like with soda, you don't pick one and buy that one... you get them all, it is one product, one drink.
I am not seeing the potential? I actually do and I really am liking what they are doing with it. A casual, horizontal progress, off line raid free PvEvP game in a pirate theme, it is a great game with lots of potential, a niche market with nearly no competitors and a development team that seems to get it (for the majority). There is a reason that after 3 years I am still here playing it...the game has gotten better with time as well, though some minor choices could use some work.
@tyfex3896 They can't sell a PvE version because then, people would play it instead of this. The purpose of this game is for skilled PvPers to get their rocks off butchering unskilled PvEers. That is why I say it is unethical.
If I'm wrong, make the PvE servers, already. Oh, they haven't and they never will? Well, there you go.
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@tyfex3896 They can't sell a PvE version because then, people would play it instead of this. The purpose of this game is for skilled PvPers to get their rocks off butchering unskilled PvEers. That is why I say it is unethical.
If I'm wrong, make the PvE servers, already. Oh, they haven't and they never will? Well, there you go.
Be a good sport. Sea of Thieves is a pirate game, and stealth, stealing and battles are all part of the fun. All pirates on the seas accept that, but be a good sportsman in both victory and loss.
Maybe... understand what you are walking into before calling foul play. Nobody is forcing you to step into the ring, you choose to do that yourself. You are not some helpless merchant, you are a pirate and the only reason you are unskilled is because you clearly aren't trying to learn.
@mferr11 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design.
I don't think Rare has a gun to your head forcing you to play their game. If you don't like PvPvE games, don't play PvPvE games.
If I quit, if people like me quit, where does that leave people like you?
What's the difference between me quitting and me getting a PvE server, except Rare getting less money?
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@mferr11 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
Offering up PvEers as content to be consumed by PvPers is unethical game design.
I don't think Rare has a gun to your head forcing you to play their game. If you don't like PvPvE games, don't play PvPvE games.
If I quit, if people like me quit, where does that leave people like you?
With a game that we enjoy? Where we want to play and enjoy both the PvE and PvP elements the game has to offer.
What's the difference between me quitting and me getting a PvE server, except Rare getting less money?
What is the difference between you quiting or me quiting, because they make a PvE server? I have no interest in mindless PvP or no pirate PvE in this game.
Your premise assumes that the choice will not cause others to leave... you cannot please everyone. Rare isn't by definition losing money, the question is what is their demographic: the PvEvP players.
@cotu42 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@tyfex3896 They can't sell a PvE version because then, people would play it instead of this. The purpose of this game is for skilled PvPers to get their rocks off butchering unskilled PvEers. That is why I say it is unethical.
If I'm wrong, make the PvE servers, already. Oh, they haven't and they never will? Well, there you go.
Be a good sport. Sea of Thieves is a pirate game, and stealth, stealing and battles are all part of the fun. All pirates on the seas accept that, but be a good sportsman in both victory and loss.
Maybe... understand what you are walking into before calling foul play. Nobody is forcing you to step into the ring, you choose to do that yourself. You are not some helpless merchant, you are a pirate and the only reason you are unskilled is because you clearly aren't trying to learn.
Why can't PvPers be asked to be a good sport?
Ambush me at an outpost (with NO LOOT doing a tall tale) and kill me over and over and over.
Kill my son and steal his tall tale item, forcing him to restart.
Kill us and camp our boat, even with no loot.
Why should I be a good sport about that? Why must I be gracious in defeat, but they cannot be asked to be humble in victory?
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@cotu42 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@puggins7318 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@tyfex3896 They can't sell a PvE version because then, people would play it instead of this. The purpose of this game is for skilled PvPers to get their rocks off butchering unskilled PvEers. That is why I say it is unethical.
If I'm wrong, make the PvE servers, already. Oh, they haven't and they never will? Well, there you go.
Be a good sport. Sea of Thieves is a pirate game, and stealth, stealing and battles are all part of the fun. All pirates on the seas accept that, but be a good sportsman in both victory and loss.
Maybe... understand what you are walking into before calling foul play. Nobody is forcing you to step into the ring, you choose to do that yourself. You are not some helpless merchant, you are a pirate and the only reason you are unskilled is because you clearly aren't trying to learn.
Why can't PvPers be asked to be a good sport?
I am a good sport, what are you talking about and I sink people without loot, I have sunk people at outposts, I have sunk people on a Tall Tale, I have embedded myself in an alliance and stolen the Athena chest (while not being part of the alliance) and even claimed an island and kept killing a full galleon crew that sunk my ship while I was doing PvE and prevented them from progressing their Athena voyage for over an hour. I have even tucked on ships, I have done a lot in this game, from both PvE and PvP perspectives. Not every combat situation is with the PvP elite, actually most are not.
You cannot claim all people that do activity X are toxic, or bad sports, because frankly... I met some really nasty PvE folks as well.
Ambush me at an outpost (with NO LOOT doing a tall tale) and kill me over and over and over.
Simply throw in the towel by scuttling your ship. You are most likely at the outpost they want to sell their stuff at. You are the only one coming back to get killed over and over again... the game has the option to simply admit defeat.
Kill my son and steal his tall tale item, forcing him to restart.
Tall tales have check-points, reach them and you can continue from that point forward. This issue has already been addressed by the developers.
Kill us and camp our boat, even with no loot.
Killing is once again not something bad as long as you keep coming back the battle isn't over, it is like asking a boxer to stop punching people before the towel is thrown or the bell has rung. You are in a PvP conflict, a battle...
Why should I be a good sport about that? Why must I be gracious in defeat, but they cannot be asked to be humble in victory?
Who says they aren't and yes we expect those that win to also be good sports about it. I have shared a grog with many of my opponents after they sunk my ship, won the battle, sold my items. Sure I meet some less friendly people out on the seas, but it is both those I attack and those that attack me that showcase this behavior. I have also had people roll up on me with their new ship after I won asking for a tall tale item back and all that... which I just handed over, gave them a tip on how to improve and send them on their way, didn't bother them again.
I have a big suspicion that me not saying a word or just talking in-game to my team would already make you salty, because I boarded your ship, shot down your mast, killed you multiple times... this isn't bad sportsmanship, that is just: part of the fun.
Really gotta love the armchair CEOs thinking Rare aren't already taking the decisions and measures that are bringing them the most money lol.
If they thought that a full progression PVE server of any kind would have had no negative repercussions over the main game, they would've done it by now :)
Enjoy the Tall Tales checkpoints, and make sure to practice over in the custom servers when they come out, so you may be less fearful of venturing in the public seas to earn your progression.
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