[Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion

@xultanis-dragon So I highly doubt people would get banned for "grouping" (not sure what that even mean) Bad Language for sure but banning for spawn camping, especially in Arena would become quickly problem for Rare. As commendations in Arena clearly require you to obtain each weapon kills, and this is multiplayer game so having multiple players on the ship seems like something that would happen often in multiplayer game, I see hard argument here to defend. Those bans if existed would be easy to "resolve" through XBOX services. There will always be PVP fights in multiplayer game, so people may as well get used to. Lets hope Rare listens and turns Maiden Voyage into single player and those "sensitive" can explore on their own.

@jadescissors32

If you group to TDM you are fine. If you group to force players out of the server for not TDM'ing that is bannable.

Basically you aren't allowed to group/team that gives you an advantage. Grouping/Teaming and switch out wins every other match or one ship just does all the killing while the other one does all the winning. Hard to prove but still a no no.

Grouping up to land in the same server to TDM is okay. Grouping up to land in the same server to TDM and then spawn camp players out of the server for not TDM'ing is bannable.

Its very self explanatory and shouldn't be too hard to understand.

SIDE NOTE Not saying that the concept is hard to understand. Saying that I run into this a lot in Arena where players think that they are allowed to group up and spawn camp any ship that doesn't want to TDM with them and then magically they stop playing the game or I don't even see their player tag anymore on xbox after a week or so after reporting.

@turkaspy

Its a by product of the teaming.

What do you think those particular players are saying on the mics while spawn camping or trying to force players out of the server??

I'll be honest, I run into a TON of salty PvE players that have used every kind of slur imaginable simply for attacking them. I haven't even said anything and they go off. However, in Arena, I have yet to meet a TDM'er that is cordial on the mic when spawn camping. Its almost a guarantee of every kind of slur you can find which ends up leading to a perma ban because its all in the report video.

EDIT I've experienced both. Players teaming to force players who don't want to participate out of the server, this happens not as often but often enough. Then theres the spawn camping from players attacking them while TDM'ing. That I don't think is generally the issue since they were attacked, its the aftermath that I believe is the issue because after that, every subsequent match after they go after the ship to try and force it out by teaming against it. Again still a no no.

@xultanis-dragon They maybe banned for language or something else, but they are not getting banned because they were on your ship spawn camping you. Nobody can force you to quit because nobody has access to your "Leave Game" button.
Anybody can spawn camp you on your ship all day long as long as you stay in the session. So not sure where this idea of people getting banned comes from. My account is "friends" with a lot of TDM people and they are all online. Sorry mate, but I think you making things up a little bit. Maybe to scare people from TDM.

@turkaspy

TDM community probably stick together in some kind of discord so I haven't run into those. I can only attest to the ones I do run into and that is the "slur of many colors" kind.

Its the context of the ban. I explained it a lot but you are still ignoring the key differences.

TDM'ing. Not bannable.

TDM'ing and then attacking someone who attacked you. Not bannable.

TDM'ing and then spawn camping any ship that doesn't want to participate - Bannable.

TDM'ing and then spawn camping then going after the ship that attacked you in the previous match spawn camping and trying to force them out of the server. Bannable.

TDM'ing and then sinking the ship that attacked you, next match that same ship attacks you again and you attack and sink it. Not bannable. If that ship doesn't bother you the next round but you guys go after it and spawn camp it, bannable.

@JadeScissors32

Every single person I've reported has been banned. Even the ones who weren't even going slur crazy on the mic. Again it depends on the context on whats happening.

SIDE NOTE It has to mainly do with the number of ships. Teaming/grouping is not generally allowed in Arena. This was stated by Rare in one of their videos and they tried to make sure they got rid of it when they fixed server merging. However with the low number of players in Arena they can't swap around players in lobbies anymore.

You a single ship spawn camping someone, nothing going to happen, 2 ships doing it, a no no.

@turkaspy

Again the context of the situation, Please people how hard is this to get??

You can sit there and spawn camp a ship and get all the kills you need for the commendation. YOU AND ANOTHER CREW ON A SHIP WORKING TOGETHER IS A NO NO.

The only reason Rare turns a blind eye to the TDM'ing grouping is because they are generally leaving the players who are playing Arena ALONE. Once you team up again a single ship thats where the line gets drawn depending on what you are doing and WHY.

EDIT the ones I'm running into are probably the ones not involved with those streamers or part of the discord that has the tdm'er group or I wouldn't have run into them. Trust me, I'm not the only ones.

Also Adventure and Arena play by different rules. So you can't say what is allowed in adventure is allowed in Arena.

@turkaspy

I meant as in a group. A single ship doing it is not going to get them banned, when all 2 or 3 or however many ships are doing the spawn camping to force the players out of the server THAT is bannable.

Again its the context. You aren't allowed to TEAM for an advantage. If you want to team and do your own thing you are more than welcome. You team together for wins or for forcing players out of the game that is a no no.

SIDE NOTE The thing I don't understand is that if you are part of the group that doesn't do this, then why are you worried?? lol.

If its a small majority then they are obviously big enough for me to run into them frequently enough. The slurs are more common then uncommon when I run into TDM'ers, however that only pertains to TDM'ers that try to force their way onto the servers. I've played in lobbies with TDM'ers that have minded their own business and have sank the ships that attacked them and moved on. Once the match was over they go to another server. However the ones who get mad at players not TDMing or mad that they are being interrupted, they go awol and those are the ones I run into more, probably again because they aren't part of the actual group of tdmers.

SIDE NOTE I stipulated many times that the ones I have run into and have said that a lot of the perma bans happen because of the language used on the video being used for the reports. I always stipulate group and always specify my experience and reasoning. I didn't say all and I didn't say the WHOLE community. Just a majority of the ones who ACT that way usually are also using the slurs. Right??

@xultanis-dragon said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

TDM'ing and then spawn camping any ship that doesn't want to participate - Bannable.

TDM'ing and then spawn camping then going after the ship that attacked you in the previous match spawn camping and trying to force them out of the server. Bannable.

TDM'ing and then sinking the ship that attacked you, next match that same ship attacks you again and you attack and sink it. Not bannable. If that ship doesn't bother you the next round but you guys go after it and spawn camp it, bannable.

@JadeScissors32

Every single person I've reported has been banned. Even the ones who weren't even going slur crazy on the mic. Again it depends on the context on whats happening.

SIDE NOTE It has to mainly do with the number of ships. Teaming/grouping is not generally allowed in Arena. This was stated by Rare in one of their videos and they tried to make sure they got rid of it when they fixed server merging. However with the low number of players in Arena they can't swap around players in lobbies anymore.

You a single ship spawn camping someone, nothing going to happen, 2 ships doing it, a no no.

This sounds more like wishful thinking. If Rare does not want more than two ship fighting they should have made Arena with 2 (TWO) ship only and not 5. So there is no case here for complaining about grouping or spawn camping.
If Rare did not want the same crew camping you every round they would have made teams rotate in and out of session.
Again if any of these are put as a reason for ban, it would get lifted quickly by XBOX services.
What you wrote has no standing. And again Rare can not make up their own rules.

@turkaspy

I will go check my post and see if it could be misleading and if it was then I apologize and if I catch it I will correct the problem as that was not my intent.

@turkaspy

yes, my apologies if I couldn't convey that correctly.

@JadeScissors32

Rare has tried to rotate players but they can't, the population for Arena is too small. It worked really well in the beginning for a month or 2, but then more and more players got their wins and they stopped playing and so the population for Arena got smaller and smaller. Ever wonder why sometimes when you leave to try and get another lobby you end up back in the same exact one you left??

The one of the reasons why its so easy to queue up with your friends in the same region and get on the same server.

Usually the only way to get into another server is the leave and then wait until that server you left has a match and even then sometimes the game won't load you in until that match is over.

Its a by product of the small population for the mode. Its not like Rare hasn't tried to fix it, just can't do much about it at this point.

@xultanis-dragon said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

@turkaspy

yes, my apologies if I couldn't convey that correctly.

@JadeScissors32

Rare has tried to rotate players but they can't, the population for Arena is too small. ......
Its a by product of the small population for the mode. Its not like Rare hasn't tried to fix it, just can't do much about it at this point.

Yeah but that's on Rare to solve, and if they tried to solve that through bans it would not fly for too long. If people got banned for Voice/Chat harassment or cheating then that's the different story but I highly doubt anybody got banned for any of the other things you listed.

@jadescissors32

Lots have, and Rare's intention to fix it is by saying its not allowed which they have said. Its not as if its the companies responsibility to make sure everything works 100% as intended. It would be nice if that were true and the game had no bugs but we would never get a chance to play if it were true. Somethings are just easier said "hey don't do this or we'll ban you".

Lots of games do it that way and its no surprise that it happens. WoW did it with that glitch to one of the raid bosses where you can circumvent the whole raid and get straight to the boss and best part is that they retro'd banned everyone who used the exploit before they fixed it.

There are clear lines not to cross and clear intentions. Rare made it clear on their stance for teaming in Arena in one of their dev updates and even took steps to prevent it from happening. The intent is clear and players have been banned for it, especially the things I've mentioned because I've reported and they got banned for it. Its all about context.

@xultanis-dragon said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

@jadescissors32

Lots have, and Rare's intention to fix it is by saying its not allowed which they have said. Its not as if its the companies responsibility to make sure everything works 100% as intended. It would be nice if that were true and the game had no bugs but we would never get a chance to play if it were true. Somethings are just easier said "hey don't do this or we'll ban you".

Lots of games do it that way and its no surprise that it happens. WoW did it with that glitch to one of the raid bosses where you can circumvent the whole raid and get straight to the boss and best part is that they retro'd banned everyone who used the exploit before they fixed it.

There are clear lines not to cross and clear intentions. Rare made it clear on their stance for teaming in Arena in one of their dev updates and even took steps to prevent it from happening. The intent is clear and players have been banned for it, especially the things I've mentioned because I've reported and they got banned for it. Its all about context.

I am not sure where you getting your information from, but no, no game developer is allowed to substitute fixes with bans, and yes they are required to have 100% working environment. Its in their agreement with XBOX and other game services. And if you want to know what happens when game developer fails just look for most recent case of Cyberpunk drama and them getting de-listed from multiple game services. I honestly think you are trying to scare people off, and I am pretty sure nobody is going to get banned by playing game as designed with out doing something outside norm like harassment, or racist behavior. Rare can easily stop TDM and multiple ships attacking single ship (for whatever reasons) by flipping configuration from 5 to 2 ships in Arena (probably would remove all that stuttering from servers).
Clearly they don't see this to be a problem, otherwise they would have done it already. Context here does not matter because this is not a guessing game.

@jadescissors32 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

@xultanis-dragon said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

@jadescissors32

Lots have, and Rare's intention to fix it is by saying its not allowed which they have said. Its not as if its the companies responsibility to make sure everything works 100% as intended. It would be nice if that were true and the game had no bugs but we would never get a chance to play if it were true. Somethings are just easier said "hey don't do this or we'll ban you".

Lots of games do it that way and its no surprise that it happens. WoW did it with that glitch to one of the raid bosses where you can circumvent the whole raid and get straight to the boss and best part is that they retro'd banned everyone who used the exploit before they fixed it.

There are clear lines not to cross and clear intentions. Rare made it clear on their stance for teaming in Arena in one of their dev updates and even took steps to prevent it from happening. The intent is clear and players have been banned for it, especially the things I've mentioned because I've reported and they got banned for it. Its all about context.

I am not sure where you getting your information from, but no, no game developer is allowed to substitute fixes with bans, and yes they are required to have 100% working environment. Its in their agreement with XBOX and other game services. And if you want to know what happens when game developer fails just look for most recent case of Cyberpunk drama and them getting de-listed from multiple game services. I honestly think you are trying to scare people off, and I am pretty sure nobody is going to get banned by playing game as designed with out doing something outside norm like harassment, or racist behavior. Rare can easily stop TDM and multiple ships attacking single ship (for whatever reasons) by flipping configuration from 5 to 2 ships in Arena (probably would remove all that stuttering from servers).
Clearly they don't see this to be a problem, otherwise they would have done it already. Context here does not matter because this is not a guessing game.

Cyberpunk?? That only failed on the old gen's and the developers WANTED to keep fixing the game it was the COMMUNITY that wanted it released. So thats not on them at all.

Also I've seen tons of games BAN for using glitches that they have openly said "DON'T DO THIS OR WE BAN YOU". I don't know what type of games you play of if you been under a rock but lots of multiplayer games have done this in the passed and still do.

Fixing takes time and sometimes developers don't bother releasing the patch because an expansion is right around the corner. Lots of MMORPG's have done it and the biggest one on the list is WoW because they have been notorious for it as the only developer I know that RETRO bans players for using an exploit before they even made an official statement on the issue.

Developers make the game, they can try to make it 100% but some never do or can't like Bethesda that basically has support for a game 6 months after a release and then dissapears. The modding community takes over and releases their own patches to fix glitches in the game which is one of the reasons why almost all of their games are allowed to be modded where most other companies don't allow players to do that.

Broski when it comes to gaming what you are saying makes absolutely no sense and I have no idea how you have come to any semblance of that belief you have but its not true because gaming history has proven otherwise.

There is a Rotten core in this Game.

that Rare have enabled Toxic behaviour on the Part of players who engage in PvP in the Player vs Environment part of this game against the will of those who just want to play against the Environment.

I get that it is a mixed environment, but those engaging in PvP against the will of the crew they are attacking is ruining the enjoyment of the content in the game for the other players.

That is a toxic behaviour. there needs to be a mechanism (or better RoE that are enforceable) that allows players who want to engage with the Player vs Environment content (particularly new players) without falling prey to harassment and constant attack by other players.

don't get me wrong, occasionally i'm happy to engage in a bit of PvP in the Player vs Environment part of this Game, but most of the time the players engaging in PvP are an inconsiderate pain in the as often I find glitching and finding any means they can to manipulate the game engine to their advantage, completely taking the fun out of PvP.

makes me wish most of the time that they would expletive off to the Arena and leave the rest of us to it.

but of course like the Toxic Gaslighting group they are one of them will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.

I'm just dropping my personal opinion and experience but I sadly cannot enjoy this game. I loved it on release. I played for a few months. Got my friends to try it too. Unfortunately when it got big on Twitch and everyone decided to be hostile all the time it stopped being fun for me. It went from forming alliances and having epic fights to getting constantly chased and attacked even when I didn't have loot. At one point I was attacked within 5 minutes of spawning before I even took off. They would not back off even though I had no loot(which they confirmed since they looted my ship while I was checking the shops before sailing away. I understand the game is meant to be PVP but my problem with it is the lack of balance. I've sank ships with full 4 people crews solo only to have to fight them again with minutes. Put a bigger respawn restriction on them or something. I don't mind fighting but it seems like there's no way out a lot of the time. Specially now that there's an arena mode. I shouldn't have to deal with so many griefers. And I would not post this normally but I fight so many battles and win only to lose everything because they respawned and caught up by the time I repaired or tried to reach an outpost. Either provide better PVP or give us a PVE mode where we can enjoy the adventuring without the griefing. Heck, even servers with specific crew/ship size restrictions would be fine. Solos only, duos, etc. I hope this becomes a reality soon so I can come back to the game but unfortunately until then, I'm out.

I'm just adding my feedback in this thread in the hopes that the game gets better for people looking for a more casual experience.

Grabbed this off of the Game Pass to play with friends, and we have been loving all the small touches. The sailing mechanics, embarking on Voyages, following random maps we find, it's all been fun.

And then a pair of screaming jerks camped us while we had no loot or anything worth taking.

I understand that people are citing this being a PvPvE game, but given the sheer un-fun nature of what other players can inflict on you and how long voyages can take, not having any kind of private group/friends-only mode has put this game squarely on the do-not-buy list for me. I was actually debating picking up some cosmetics (such as a Pet) from the cash-shop before my solo voyage this morning was interrupted by a pair of people on a sloop screaming racial slurs at me while they chased me.

If the goal is to attract this kind of player, job well done. But I'm certainly not going to be retained as a player, nor will I be spending anything on this game. Take from this single anecdote what you will.

@bluethunder1177

What region are you in where players keep coming back after you sink them?? I at most I might get 1 crew that comes back after 2 weeks of playing.

@Crazy-Rokero @GabeMobius1473

Don't worry, PvE servers will never happen. I know this for a fact because I am on the dev team and I work with Joe Neate personally.

Sounds like BS right?? Because it is.

This is what you guys sound like everytime you say "we had no loot so they are the bad guys"

Do you know how many times players have said "we have nothing" and they have like an ashen winds skull or I've even found a crew with an athena tucked away.

Saying "I don't have loot" is not an automatic get out of jail free card. There is no way for us to tell if you have ANYTHING.

"But we are brand new" - HOW DO WE KNOW THAT??

"because we told you!!" - Well be assured that I will talk in depth with Joe Neate personally as he is planning to come over for my 20th childs birthday tomorrow. Don't worry we will be social distancing.

I told you I work with Joe Neate, that means you HAVE to believe me because I just told you.

This is for everyone else says PvE servers are needed and how everyone wants them.

Have you realized yet that 99% of the players who want PvE servers are posts from Castaways?? Probably from alt accounts because almost every single one of those profiles has less than 1m meters sailed or has only set sail and hasn't really don't anything.

You know what, I need to make a discord of my own for PvP players where we make nothing but alt accounts and have players say that PvP is the best part of the game. See what happens then. Honestly.