Weapons are situational.

1 on 1s against sword most DG win

I've tested for fun against decent dg on island fight using sword and won.

I've tested dg against sword and won.

Basically dont get yourself pinched,

Against dg vs dg is usually your best bet.
Sword is a mobility weapon,

Most specially now have no clue how to use sword.
Have no idea when to time swings, when to block when to dodge.
Play styles are situational

(Imo lunge is fine as it is)

I enjoy playing against a good dg. It's a rarity.
And appreciate a player who can actually use sword well, as there is still combos that can be done with it.

I've seen players complain about using.sword.
I switch to dg the same players complain about dg
I switch again to sniper/pistol and still complain.

There is a counter to every style
Most have no clue how to counter it.

We all make mistakes in battles, most fight in pairs anyways

However, it is still mostly impossible to use against an experienced double gunner.

There's no easy way to say this dude but there's just a big skill gap between you and the DGers you go up against in the NAL. They aren't only winning because they're DG and you're using a sword.

It's not impossible to use against an experienced DGer, especially post-wallbang removal, but you have to be at least as good as them at overall CQC to stand a chance, and you're going to have to use both of your weapons, not just the sword.

@insaiity @Bugaboo-Bill 100% lunge dmg also a hard no. That would indeed be broken. 60% really is the sweetspot. Keep it there.

As for the keg argument: the sword lunge and keg are not the same. The keg brings a risk of being blown up yourself. You also have to bring the keg to the boat (which makes you slower when boarding). Not to mention, you have to have a keg around to use in the first place. And yes, you can hit multiple pirates at one time with lunge. I usually average two per lunge, which is pretty solid damage against an entire team.

Btw, thank you everyone for posting your ideas about changes to pvp combat. Whether I agree with you or not, I'm glad to see people interested in having this discussion, so thank you for taking the time to post your input!

@bugaboo-bill sagte in Another Sword Rebalance:

@insaiity if that's true it would be op, but some someone with a keg is the same tbh.

A Keg is something completely different tho. Like I already said.

Imho the lunge wouldnt go through two pirates and kill a third.
It would hit the 1st, then lock you down and you would get killed.

What are you talking about? I don't get it, after a successful lunge you are never locked down. And a lunge also doesn't just stop after hitting the first pirate.

If i board with a keg i lit it, drop it at the cannons and run below deck.

All who stand close together on the upper deck would be killed too.
Not my fault if people bunch together.

They are on a ship, there is not that much room, and a keg can be defused and or tossed over board, it also doesn't move around.

One thing we do if we are preparing for boarders is to spread among the deck / ship to not get killed, burned all at once if someone comes with a keg or throws his firebombs.

I said when you don't know someone is boarding, he'll be able to wipe a whole crew in seconds. That's OP as hell.

Have you tested or real experience with lunge going through a pirate and is able to kill another and even 3 or 4 in a row?

Yes everytime I get on a boat my lunge hits at least 2 pirates or more.

If so, ok, but then it would be better to nerf this anyway, because if this works you can literally do 240 damage with one lunge slicing through 4 pirates at once.

No it is fine as it is. The lunge takes time to charge and does 60 dmg. If you miss you are out of breath. It would only be a problem if it would do 100 dmg.

If I were to make an equally bad and insane proposition, than I would say that I want the very old DG back, where you could kill someone instantly, or just that a sniper shot does also 100 dmg.
Obviously that would break the game tho, as we have already seen. Your proposition is the exact same, porbably even a little more worse.

@bugaboo-bill said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@insaiity how? You mean if they all stand together.

Keg is the same.

keg is much much different

1: you can die to it yourself
2: kegs take alot longer to blow up allowing people to put the fuse out
3: the sword lunge is charged up faster

it would destroy the balance of the sword

@insaiity if that's true it would be op, but some someone with a keg is the same tbh.

Imho the lunge wouldnt go through two pirates and kill a third.
It would hit the 1st, then lock you down and you would get killed.

If i board with a keg i lit it, drop it at the cannons and run below deck.

All who stand close together on the upper deck would be killed too.
Not my fault if people bunch together.

One thing we do if we are preparing for boarders is to spread among the deck / ship to not get killed, burned all at once if someone comes with a keg or throws his firebombs.

Have you tested or real experience with lunge going through a pirate and is able to kill another and even 3 or 4 in a row?

If so, ok, but then it would be better to nerf this anyway, because if this works you can literally do 240 damage with one lunge slicing through 4 pirates at once.

@galactic-geek said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@kommodoreyenser
Removing the sword's stun and/or adding movement slowdown on a miss are both things that were already tried and changed due to how it created too much of an advantage towards gun-users.

Also, thanks for your input regarding reload times, but you need to use a computer and not a stopwatch in order to eliminate human error. The fastest way of doing this is to record clips of the reload animations, and note the time stamps from beginning to end, preferably in slow motion.

Fair enough, redid it and recording the timestamps down to .01 sec with OBS from shot to shot or swing to swing.
New numbers (which are surprisingly fast for the sword MISS!):

Sword: 1.17 sec on miss (no players around to figure out combo swing gap time)
Flintlock: 3.01 sec hip fire / 3.07 sec ADS
Blunderbuss: 2.93 sec hip fire / 3.22 sec ADS
Eye of Reach: 3.26 sec hip fire / 4.10 sec ADS

Video for reference if you want to download and confirm: https://youtu.be/rxgk4Da0hrg

Definitely showed I was a little slow on the stop button when having to also ADS but still relevant enough to show that ANY ADS is over 3 seconds. If anything it helps show the RIDICULOUSLY quick sword swing on a miss.

@bugaboo-bill sagte in Another Sword Rebalance:

@insaiity how? You mean if they all stand together.

Keg is the same.

If 3 are on the cannon and you climb up the ladder you can easily kill all of them in one lunge and then after that kill the helmsman. How is that not op?

The blunder at least has to be pretty close to an enemy and you can only 1shot 1 person. This lunge would be able to 1shot multiple people in midrange. Pls tell me you see that this would be more than just OP, it would be completely broken. It would be even worse than the DG exploit.

A keg is something you have once, something you have to find, something that can dmg you ander your ship aswell and can be blown up by all people.

@insaiity how? You mean if they all stand together.

Keg is the same.

@bugaboo-bill sagte in Another Sword Rebalance:

Lunge should do 100% dmg!

You could 1shot an entiere crew with that? A hard NO from me.

@galactic-geek most risky move in combat, why not?

Needs cqc like blunder, takes time to load, leaves you vulnerable when missed.

Why not reward it if you risk it?

Why shooting has no lockdown?
Shoot and be locked for 1.5 seconds.

@bugaboo-bill said in Another Sword Rebalance:

Lunge should do 100% dmg!

🤣🤣🤣

NO.

Lunge should do 100% dmg!

@kommodoreyenser There is a delay in between combo swings, but it's minor at best, and many advocate for its delay to be increased - I am not 1 of them. There is also a slight delay at the beginning of a swing prior to the hit, which can easily lead to mistimed swings that miss as a result. It's particularly noticeable as you attempt to knock would-be boarders off of the ladder while using the sword.

Removing the sword's stun and/or adding movement slowdown on a miss are both things that were already tried and changed due to how it created too much of an advantage towards gun-users.

Also, thanks for your input regarding reload times, but you need to use a computer and not a stopwatch in order to eliminate human error. The fastest way of doing this is to record clips of the reload animations, and note the time stamps from beginning to end, preferably in slow motion.

@xg12im12eaperx said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@kommodoreyenser Um what do you mean by "aim" the sword?

Right now it is basically a giant cone that covers your FOV. Basically it is 45 degrees out every direction from center.

Personally I think it should be maybe 45 degrees each side for a "swing" like motion but only include about 5-10 degrees above and below center screen. Actually creating some form of aiming needed rather than M1 mash and sweeping your FOV left to right in hopes of hits.

Also I either think stun needs to be removed again or they actually need to add a .5-1.0 sec move penalty on a miss equal to carrying treasure in your hand. Stun has all the upsides when you hit with none of the downsides when you miss beings there is also no real miss swing penalty unless you are in the middle of a combo.

@kommodoreyenser Um what do you mean by "aim" the sword?

@galactic-geek said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@kommodoreyenser Manually being the operative word. Are you including the entire reload animation, or just up until the hammer is pulled?

Since you asked I ran a test with stopwatch triggered off the shot. This is a shot-to-shot time both for hip fire and ADS done as a range over 10 shots/swings on hip fire and then again on ADS spamming M1 until fired except for ADS where you need to wait til your vision narrows before shooting (why would the hammer sound matter if you don't do any damage until the weapon is fired/swung?)

• Sword: 2-2.2 sec on miss (no players around to figure out combo swing gap time)
• Flintlock: 2.35-2.55 sec hip fire / 2.57-2.7 sec ADS
• Blunderbuss: 2.92-2.99 sec hip fire / 4.05-4.07 sec ADS
• Eye of Reach: 3.4-3.5 sec hip fire / 4.3-4.5 sec ADS

Now since the EoR is useless hip fired as is the chance of one shot with the Blunder, maybe folks asking for changes to these weapons can see why they are fine as-is. If you miss, that is a 4 second time of being vulnerable to get in there and kill them. Switching weapons doubles that if they miss both shots. The sword on the other hand can cut someone down by 75% in less time than it takes to reload and fire either weapon reliably.

Now I am not advocating for anything other than to bring the sword in line with all the other weapons by reducing that giant cone of attack the sword has and make it actually being necessary to be aimed like literally all other weapons in the game. An alternative would be lowering the shot-to-shot time for ADS for all weapons (basically reduce the animation time for raising sights up) as someone once said:

@galactic-geek said in Another Sword Rebalance:

3-4 seconds of not being able to use your weapon mid-fight is an automatic death sentence, because it's far too long of a timeframe to be essentially unarmed.

@jollyolsteamed Perhaps the sword is better equipped than what i thought. I've been tinkering more and more with it lately. However, I do stand by that blocking needs to be reworked. I would like it to be more immediate; still very clunky in it's current state, especially sword v sword. Those hit mechanics need to actually be fixed where you can't hit during another persons attack (was supposed to be fixed, but still isn't).

@xg12im12eaperx said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@jollyolsteamed I like the damage where it is too. I only suggested it as a form of counter balance to the changes I suggested. Also, I believe dg has much more coverage than sword because they are able to maintain distance (or should be, assuming they know what they are doing). Heck, even at close range, dg still has blundy.

well yes theres more to why dg was meta but one of the biggest reason was the sword being underpowered

the only downsides to dg was the bullets you had to reload

i have it set that aiming is easy esp in this game where headshots are irrelevant

i honestly think the sword is good where it is today

also to prevent some misunderstanding i think dg is fine by its own right

i just think weapons shouldn't be viable for every situation

just as sword isn't viable in long range

guns shouldn't be viable in close range unless blunder

@j0hnfrum If I had to turn my screen, I would break my TV. No, your pirate's perspective must be the one to constantly and consistently change if you want to have any hope of confusing your opponent without getting blocked or shot.

...and there are ways to get out of, or somewhat negate, stun - it's not fullproof.

@baronbrr a
Actually sword has this great feature I bet you will like Its called STUN and your entire arguement is you should be able to M1 spam without having to turn your screen to continue hitting your target.

@kommodoreyenser Manually being the operative word. Are you including the entire reload animation, or just up until the hammer is pulled?

And don't quote damage numbers to me. That is something I am well-versed in.

@galactic-geek A bit dated but I can assure you they do not have such a short 1-2 second time shot-to-shot:

@nairamus said in Weapon Reloadtime and Damage Changes, Patch 1.4.3 (6th of Februrary 2019):

New Reloadtimes:

• Pistol: ~2,5s
• Blunderbuss: ~3,0s
• Eye of Reach: ~3,5s

Old Reloadtimes:

• Pistol: ~3,0s
• Blunderbuss: ~3,0s
• Eye of Reach: ~4,0s

Data were collected manually with a stopwatch. T_0 = First shot fired. T_x = Second shot fired.

New Weapon Damage:

• Pistol: 50% (knockback removed)
• Blunderbuss: 10% per pellet / 10 pellets per shot (knockback)
• Eye of Reach: 70% (changed from 80% ; knockback removed)
• Cutlass normal swing: 20% (knockback after 3xhit-combo)
• Cutlass charged: 50% (knockback)

@kommodoreyenser said in Another Sword Rebalance:

@galactic-geek said in Another Sword Rebalance:

3-4 seconds of not being able to use your weapon mid-fight is an automatic death sentence, because it's far too long of a timeframe to be essentially unarmed.

Lol not that I take 3-4 second sword lock miss penalty seriously, but the fact that you blanket used the term “weapon” being a death sentence when not be able to use for 3-4 seconds when the blunder has a 3 second reload and sniper at 3.5 is hilarious.

Both are less than 3 seconds.