Custom Server Update Discussion

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    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    (...) Checkpoints were answering a distinct issue that has a similar root cause (frustration at losing progress) as players wanting a PvE experience, but isn't the same request.

    No, not being able to finish a Tall Tale was one of the reasons people asked for a PvE server.

    Rare removed that reason by introducing the checkpoints.

    If Rare would have the idea of a PvE server in mind or in the works, the Tall Tale checkpoints would be a pointless addition... as a PvE server would do the job as well.

    How long ago were tall tale checkpoints added, and did they do anything to reduce people asking for PvE servers?

  • 1

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    (...) Checkpoints were answering a distinct issue that has a similar root cause (frustration at losing progress) as players wanting a PvE experience, but isn't the same request.

    No, not being able to finish a Tall Tale was one of the reasons people asked for a PvE server.

    Rare removed that reason by introducing the checkpoints.

    If Rare would have the idea of a PvE server in mind or in the works, the Tall Tale checkpoints would be a pointless addition... as a PvE server would do the job as well.

    How long ago were tall tale checkpoints added, and did they do anything to reduce people asking for PvE servers?

    How long ago ? I don't know exactly, I guess you can check patchnotes if you think it's important ...

    IMO it should reduce the asking for PvE servers by the people who got sunk doing a Tall Tale or robbed from Tall Tale items as they now can easily continue their Tall Tale. I didn't keep a tally though.

    It should give you a clear indication which way Rare won't go with this PvPvE game though.

  • 0

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    (...) Checkpoints were answering a distinct issue that has a similar root cause (frustration at losing progress) as players wanting a PvE experience, but isn't the same request.

    No, not being able to finish a Tall Tale was one of the reasons people asked for a PvE server.

    Rare removed that reason by introducing the checkpoints.

    If Rare would have the idea of a PvE server in mind or in the works, the Tall Tale checkpoints would be a pointless addition... as a PvE server would do the job as well.

    How long ago were tall tale checkpoints added, and did they do anything to reduce people asking for PvE servers?

    How long ago ? I don't know exactly, I guess you can check patchnotes if you think it's important ...

    IMO it should reduce the asking for PvE servers by the people who got sunk doing a Tall Tale or robbed from Tall Tale items as they now can easily continue their Tall Tale. I didn't keep a tally though.

    It should give you a clear indication which way Rare won't go with this PvPvE game though.

    It only gives that clear indication if you assume that checkpoints was somehow a response to people asking for PvE experience. Since I've made it clear that I don't agree with that assumption, however...

  • 2

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    (...) Checkpoints were answering a distinct issue that has a similar root cause (frustration at losing progress) as players wanting a PvE experience, but isn't the same request.

    No, not being able to finish a Tall Tale was one of the reasons people asked for a PvE server.

    Rare removed that reason by introducing the checkpoints.

    If Rare would have the idea of a PvE server in mind or in the works, the Tall Tale checkpoints would be a pointless addition... as a PvE server would do the job as well.

    How long ago were tall tale checkpoints added, and did they do anything to reduce people asking for PvE servers?

    How long ago ? I don't know exactly, I guess you can check patchnotes if you think it's important ...

    IMO it should reduce the asking for PvE servers by the people who got sunk doing a Tall Tale or robbed from Tall Tale items as they now can easily continue their Tall Tale. I didn't keep a tally though.

    It should give you a clear indication which way Rare won't go with this PvPvE game though.

    It only gives that clear indication if you assume that checkpoints was somehow a response to people asking for PvE experience. Since I've made it clear that I don't agree with that assumption, however...

    A bit strange, given that the context of your idea for PvE is to isolate the tall tales mode only.

    A suggestion that has been made many times before you in relation to criticism for tall tales.

    The implemantion of checkpoints is a fair compromise.

    I my opinion your response just appears as being a bit disengenuos in calling it a assumption.

  • 1

    No point in arguing or disputing something that someone wants.

    We all understand and there is not a minority (because that is a small amount) but a very very large crowd that has posted a new message and forum post on here, on Steam, on YouTube videos, Twitter posts etc etc.

    Lots of people want and lots do not. That’s gaming. I do not want some of things in this game but I accept others do and I respect that is the way they want to play, I am not going to get defensive to someone else’s point in how they want to play because it’s play the way you want and I respect all aspects.

    I also know not everyone can respect and understand someone’s else’s opinion or the way they play “annoys” them and that is just a pointless conversation if you get that type of person with that view, just walk away. Which is what I am doing because I’ve read through replies and comments and it’s just a pointless roundabout situation.

    After reading the posts I can see it evidently a few times, so all good.

    I will leave it there. I welcome the custom server and would be ideal to have rep and gold earned and would be nice to do. If not, it sucks big time and would use it barely any time but I’m not penalising anyone on the way they want to play. Same as other games which are designed as PvP/PvE and they have separate servers PvP + PvE / PvP / PvE so everyone is happy.

  • 0

    I've never understood the need to remove progression from a private server. Y'all acting like progression is this huge thing in this game that gives you power but the only thing you get is pretty cosmetic items that don't effect gameplay at all.

    People are so against others for seemingly no reason in this game. You might have a reasonable argument if say; this game had real character and power progression but it doesn't. So I'd like someone to give me a single good reason to not have progression on these servers... Because honestly it just sounds like you want a high chance to be grouped up on servers with gankable people that don't enjoy PvP just so you can feel like you're good at a game because you play with 4 people and that solo player is a solo player who is playing the game because they like the premise without PvP.

  • 1

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    I've never understood the need to remove progression from a private server. Y'all acting like progression is this huge thing in this game that gives you power but the only thing you get is pretty cosmetic items that don't effect gameplay at all.

    People are so against others for seemingly no reason in this game. You might have a reasonable argument if say; this game had real character and power progression but it doesn't. So I'd like someone to give me a single good reason to not have progression on these servers... Because honestly it just sounds like you want a high chance to be grouped up on servers with gankable people that don't enjoy PvP just so you can feel like you're good at a game because you play with 4 people and that solo player is a solo player who is playing the game because they like the premise without PvP.

    Have you read this topic ?
    Some posts that explain what you're asking

    genuine-heather said in Custom Server Update Discussion
    xultanis-dragon said in Custom Server Update Discussion
    faceyourdemon said in Custom Server Update Discussion
    d3adst1ck said in Custom Server Update Discussion
    bloodybil said in Custom Server Update Discussion

    Also in PvE andPvP playstyles Mega topic can you find answers.

  • 0

    @lem0n-curry I said good reason. So still waiting.

    THERE IS NO REAL PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME

    It literally doesn't matter if PvP is there or not. People don't care what the game is "balanced around" (lol talking like this game is even remotely balanced in anything other than 1:1 ratio fights). Why do you care if I go off and make a billion gold on a private server? There is literally 0 reason for ANYONE to care about this besides murder hobos who just wanna kill things for no reason other than to grief. It takes 2 to grief and that's what this boils down to. You're scared all that will be left is murder hobos and you wont be able to get anything done almost like that part of the game is annoying when you aren't the hobo.

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    @lem0n-curry The fact is, other games have done this and it turned out FINE! Why are you so scared that SoT will be sooo broken when the formula has worked time and time again with countless online games? The only reason is that you don't like the worst case scenario which is everyone defaults to killing on sight.. Almost like... idk you might wanna get some PvE done without being constantly annoyed by people.. It's funny how having a solution to that is somehow a problem to you.

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    @troubled-cells said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    Well as good as this is, I just noticed: “No gold or reputation progression from Custom Server sessions” - which is completely against what people are asking for and want so it’s going to annoy even more

    It really isnt against what people are asking for.

    The only people that do want it are the ones that arent willing to better themselves and just want to subvert the core loop.

    I completely understand but what you are forgetting is that there are people who want to play PvE only, like elder scrolls online has PvE and PvP and a lot of players do not even touch the PVP side of this game. Lots of games have it and most just want a casual PvE game to level up.

    Also, some players have disabilities which a private server would help them but when it’s limiting the fact of no progression for them, it does not make them worth wild to do it and struggle on the main servers.

    There is a lot behind why people are requesting them for all sorts of reasons and this needs to be taken into consideration and thought off.

    Then the answer is tough.

    They ain't gonna create a reward and progression based PvE adventure mode that can be massively abused all in the name of a virtue signal.

    Rare has stated many many times over the years that this is a route they dont wish to pursue, because of the cheesing ability it gives.

    Dont you guys ever feel like you are beating a dead horse about this?

    The answer is simple. Server based progression.

  • 1

    @d3adst1ck said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess You're approaching everything from a very individual viewpoint, which doesn't necessarily work for the larger picture.

    Does it matter if people earn emporium items or just pay outright for them? Not really because everything is just cosmetics. Rare might have a problem with that though since their business model expects a certain level of sales of emporium items and having everything earnable in game would likely impact the amount that is sold, which affects their bottom line and how much time they are able to devote to this game to continue delivering updates.

    Does it matter if people get to Pirate Legend or do world events in a private environment or through the regular servers? For some people it won't, but I think it would affect the regular game in a negative way. Voyages, world events, loot grinds and other high risk activities would migrate to the private/PvE server and the regular servers would just become ship smashfests and meaningless PVP.

    Alliance servers are not supported, but they are not endorsed either. Because they are quite a small number they don't have any significant impact on the larger gameplay ecosystem. If you were able to create alliance servers at will, then it would become a problem.

    It already is a smashfest. It's super easy for people who have been playing a long time and are always doing something big to say this stuff because they usually have something valuable on board that'll get stolen. But people just starting out get destroyed even when they have nothing. 99% of the time other players attack on sight anyway so what changes? NOTHING.

  • 2

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    It already is a smashfest. It's super easy for people who have been playing a long time and are always doing something big to say this stuff because they usually have something valuable on board that'll get stolen. But people just starting out get destroyed even when they have nothing. 99% of the time other players attack on sight anyway so what changes? NOTHING.

    Sailed around solo tonight and came across someone who had accidentally kegged their own ship and sank it. I helped him load his rowboat (which had whatever loot they had on board) onto my ship, sailed him over to where his friend and ship respawned and gave him some extra supplies. I continued doing my Fate of the Damned voyage, and was within one island proximity of another ship for however long it took me to defeat Greymarrow. No one attacked anyone.

    That's 50% of the server sailing around peacefully. 99%? Not even close.

  • 1

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry I said good reason. So still waiting.

    I suggest you make some counter points then otherwise that reply is pretty cheap.

    THERE IS NO REAL PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME

    It literally doesn't matter if PvP is there or not. People don't care what the game is "balanced around" (lol talking like this game is even remotely balanced in anything other than 1:1 ratio fights). Why do you care if I go off and make a billion gold on a private server? There is literally 0 reason for ANYONE to care about this besides murder hobos who just wanna kill things for no reason other than to grief. It takes 2 to grief and that's what this boils down to. You're scared all that will be left is murder hobos and you wont be able to get anything done almost like that part of the game is annoying when you aren't the hobo.

    Resorting to name-calling against people who play the game as intended ...

    It's not the billion gold, it's that people will ... well it's in the posts I linked; not sure it's worth any effort this putting to you again.

  • 1

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry The fact is, other games have done this and it turned out FINE!

    Have fun playing those other games then.

    Why are you so scared that SoT will be sooo broken when the formula has worked time and time again with countless online games? The only reason is that you don't like the worst case scenario which is everyone defaults to killing on sight.. Almost like... idk you might wanna get some PvE done without being constantly annoyed by people.. It's funny how having a solution to that is somehow a problem to you.

    Yes - there is no constant annoyance by people in the current set up. There will be if almost everyone is doing their PvE stuff in other servers. See above linked posts.

  • 1

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    Well as good as this is, I just noticed: “No gold or reputation progression from Custom Server sessions” - which is completely against what people are asking for and want so it’s going to annoy even more

    It really isnt against what people are asking for.

    The only people that do want it are the ones that arent willing to better themselves and just want to subvert the core loop.

    I completely understand but what you are forgetting is that there are people who want to play PvE only, like elder scrolls online has PvE and PvP and a lot of players do not even touch the PVP side of this game. Lots of games have it and most just want a casual PvE game to level up.

    Also, some players have disabilities which a private server would help them but when it’s limiting the fact of no progression for them, it does not make them worth wild to do it and struggle on the main servers.

    There is a lot behind why people are requesting them for all sorts of reasons and this needs to be taken into consideration and thought off.

    Then the answer is tough.

    They ain't gonna create a reward and progression based PvE adventure mode that can be massively abused all in the name of a virtue signal.

    Rare has stated many many times over the years that this is a route they dont wish to pursue, because of the cheesing ability it gives.

    Dont you guys ever feel like you are beating a dead horse about this?

    The answer is simple. Server based progression.

    Ah so you wish to subvert the core progression then.

  • 0

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry I said good reason. So still waiting.

    I suggest you make some counter points then otherwise that reply is pretty cheap.

    THERE IS NO REAL PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME

    It literally doesn't matter if PvP is there or not. People don't care what the game is "balanced around" (lol talking like this game is even remotely balanced in anything other than 1:1 ratio fights). Why do you care if I go off and make a billion gold on a private server? There is literally 0 reason for ANYONE to care about this besides murder hobos who just wanna kill things for no reason other than to grief. It takes 2 to grief and that's what this boils down to. You're scared all that will be left is murder hobos and you wont be able to get anything done almost like that part of the game is annoying when you aren't the hobo.

    Resorting to name-calling against people who play the game as intended ...

    It's not the billion gold, it's that people will ... well it's in the posts I linked; not sure it's worth any effort this putting to you again.

    Fundamentally the discrepancy comes down to: People looking to PvP vary between two ends (and can fall anywhere between them). People looking to steal loot as the end goal, and people looking to fight other players as the goal with loot as an afterthought. We'll call stealing "left" and fighting "right" for the sake of discussion.

    If PvE gets separated the left end starves out because they need the PvE players. The right end doesn't get starved out because suddenly they can log into a PvP server and know that every ship there is interested - at least somewhat - in fighting other players. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. The "problem" identified by the anti-PvE server crowd is strictly one of supply. The left leaning PvP oriented players need someone to steal from. But, suddenly, most of the "big" loot hauls, and certainly anyone working on grinding out things like Athenas rep are going to be on the PvE server.

    The reason players who aren't positioned on the left end of that spectrum aren't buying the argument is because they don't rely on other players doing work before they can get their enjoyment. The left leaning people need to convince the PvE oriented players that being stolen from / having the option to be stolen from is an enjoyable experience to win the argument.

    Obviously, in the end it doesn't really matter what we think because Rare gets to choose what they do with their game. In the long run they will do whatever they think is best for the game itself and they have already been making moves toward unstealable progress with commendations, the FotD event (which didn't rely on any turn ins), and now seasons.

  • 1

    @cptphteven
    I think this argument is fundamentally the game's design problem. As the game is designed, PvP content is predicated on the PvE content existing to create "loot pinatas." PvE-centric players sail and farm voyages and world events to generate loot. They expect, generally, to cash that loot in because they fought the game to collect it.

    If the PvE-centric players don't have fun because they can't cash-out, they leave and play another game. If enough of them do that, then PvP starves for targets.

    It seems like from a game design perspective, the game has to be fun for PvE players if they don't sell out. If you consider two tiers of players: those who are gaining experience to "get gud" and those who are experienced and are "gud." Gold, because it requires selling loot, should be the top tier currency. PvP players can sail around the map and farm loot pinatas, and if a PvE player manages to get into port and sell, then they can also aquire the top tier currency and gain whatever progression is available. The problem is that, on the by and large, Gold progression isn't actually worth a lot. There's a definite ramp, especially as you get into Athena's items. It's probably difficult to PvE your way into all the ghost items. At some point, looting other people's voyages is probably the most efficient way to get gold but there's only so much you can buy with it.

    I believe what's being done with seasons, creating progression that cannot be stolen, should function to create "fun" for the PvE players. If you sail around and complete season progression, you should acquire loot as a side-effect instead of the main goal. If you get to sell out, great! If not, it's not ideal but it's okay because you still feel like you accomplished something in the few hours you played. It's not totally defeating like farming FotD 3 times in a row and getting sunk while loading the boats.

  • 1

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry I said good reason. So still waiting.

    I suggest you make some counter points then otherwise that reply is pretty cheap.

    THERE IS NO REAL PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME

    It literally doesn't matter if PvP is there or not. People don't care what the game is "balanced around" (lol talking like this game is even remotely balanced in anything other than 1:1 ratio fights). Why do you care if I go off and make a billion gold on a private server? There is literally 0 reason for ANYONE to care about this besides murder hobos who just wanna kill things for no reason other than to grief. It takes 2 to grief and that's what this boils down to. You're scared all that will be left is murder hobos and you wont be able to get anything done almost like that part of the game is annoying when you aren't the hobo.

    Resorting to name-calling against people who play the game as intended ...

    It's not the billion gold, it's that people will ... well it's in the posts I linked; not sure it's worth any effort this putting to you again.

    Fundamentally the discrepancy comes down to: People looking to PvP vary between two ends (and can fall anywhere between them). People looking to steal loot as the end goal, and people looking to fight other players as the goal with loot as an afterthought. We'll call stealing "left" and fighting "right" for the sake of discussion. (...)

    Nope.
    You start of wrong with people calling who are not PvE-only, people looking to PvP.

    There are loads of people (my guess the majority of the players) that sail around, doing quests, events or whatever, come across another crew, not because they are looking for them, but because they end up being at the same place or going towards the same place.

    How that possible encounter plays out is up to the two crews and can vary between one crew sailing away and waiting for the other to move, an attempt to parley or ringing the alarm bells, grabbing canonballs, fruit & planks and go for the sinking and everything in between.

    Those scenarios would be gone when there would be PvE-servers with progression introduced and that's why I (and many others) advocate against them.

  • 2

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lynexiagurl said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @lem0n-curry I said good reason. So still waiting.

    I suggest you make some counter points then otherwise that reply is pretty cheap.

    THERE IS NO REAL PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME

    It literally doesn't matter if PvP is there or not. People don't care what the game is "balanced around" (lol talking like this game is even remotely balanced in anything other than 1:1 ratio fights). Why do you care if I go off and make a billion gold on a private server? There is literally 0 reason for ANYONE to care about this besides murder hobos who just wanna kill things for no reason other than to grief. It takes 2 to grief and that's what this boils down to. You're scared all that will be left is murder hobos and you wont be able to get anything done almost like that part of the game is annoying when you aren't the hobo.

    Resorting to name-calling against people who play the game as intended ...

    It's not the billion gold, it's that people will ... well it's in the posts I linked; not sure it's worth any effort this putting to you again.

    Fundamentally the discrepancy comes down to: People looking to PvP vary between two ends (and can fall anywhere between them). People looking to steal loot as the end goal, and people looking to fight other players as the goal with loot as an afterthought. We'll call stealing "left" and fighting "right" for the sake of discussion. (...)

    Nope.
    You start of wrong with people calling who are not PvE-only, people looking to PvP.

    There are loads of people (my guess the majority of the players) that sail around, doing quests, events or whatever, come across another crew, not because they are looking for them, but because they end up being at the same place or going towards the same place.

    How that possible encounter plays out is up to the two crews and can vary between one crew sailing away and waiting for the other to move, an attempt to parley or ringing the alarm bells, grabbing canonballs, fruit & planks and go for the sinking and everything in between.

    Those scenarios would be gone when there would be PvE-servers with progression introduced and that's why I (and many others) advocate against them.

    Neither of us have the data, so we are both left to our own assumptions - I don't think those situations are anywhere near as common as you do. Doing a Pve voyage with incidental PvP along the way if you run into the situation would be my ideal way to play the game, becuase then everyone has stakes, everyone has loot. But, I don't think that's how it players out. The majority of people, in my opinion, log in to do one or the other.

  • 0

    Oh yeah lets cater to a specific demographic just because they like to do PvE stuff together but not to a different one because it's against our "vision" ;)

  • 0

    A quick comment, this came about after I restarted the game after 5 months and was IMMEDIATELY killed in the first island store:

    Could someone please answer me why PvP would make sense in this game? What is the PvP aspect? Everyone has the same equipment, there are 3 ship types, 4 weapon types. If it weren't for this "half-baked" campaign, you'd uninstall it right away and ask for your money back.

    Best of all, you can't complete your missions because neither quest progress nor quest items are managed in any meaningful way.

    Now there are custom servers or they are supposed to come, the only sensible thing can be that you can block the trolls out by making your own session. Maybe, you can then cleanly complete a single quest.

    Why custom servers at all? Unbelievable [Mod edited], ever seen an RPG in the last 20 years that gave you your own customer server? Why not? Because the DEVELOPERS have implemented various server types. PvE to get along and quest and when you get tired of that you can migrate to another server and beat the cr4p out of other players in PvP.

    Or you do it mixed and come up with a concept, how to show in the game world who is in PvE and who is in PvP mode. That is, PvP boys can not attack PvE boys as long as they have a quest active. For example, if PvE boy has no quest, you can troll him, annoy him and slaughter him infinitely. Done. Then you don't need a custom server.

    How many lines of source code is that?

    If custom servers, then the full progress i.e. the full game must also be mapped. Leaving out functions can not be. This would be an indirect reward for trolls or simply players who farm other players over and over again. Those had formed the origin for the discussion.

  • 0

    What will come first, Captaincy or Custom Servers?

  • 0

    Everyone talking about PvE and balance and being offended a guy who can't PvP might get a dripped out boat and swag coat. I don't care about any of that. I have several friends who want to play this game yet I can only queue up with three, and all my other pals have to go play without us. I just want a custom server so I can play with more of my friends.

  • 1

    @shabo00 said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    Everyone talking about PvE and balance and being offended a guy who can't PvP might get a dripped out boat and swag coat. I don't care about any of that. I have several friends who want to play this game yet I can only queue up with three, and all my other pals have to go play without us. I just want a custom server so I can play with more of my friends.

    It's this that is part of the spirit on the implementation of custom servers.

    And not having a safe space to undermine rewards and progression.

  • 1

    @TakuBoto I don't really have much I feel I can add to the conversation. Much of my opinions have been more thoroughly expressed on the Insiders Forum thread, but that thread has gone without a proper response for sometime now. Feel free to head on over there if more feedback is needed.

    Its clear there is a fair set of individuals who are going out of there way to condemn anyone who has an opposing view than themselves (on both sides of the conversation). Regardless, The custom servers have been a great experience so far IMHO. I am not going to speak for any player here, and not going to claim to represent any "majority" or "minority" in the community. Its a Sandbox game and I play my way, not your way; both from a PVE and PVP mindset.

    Having said that I would like to if I may turn the conversation towards a point that both on here and indeed on Insiders, does not seem to be discussed at large, and I would like to hear some of the thoughts and opinions on this point from both spectrums of players.


    So in the Initial update, understanding that its just an initial test run with limited features, a point made by Executive Producer Joe, was:

    With the above point in mind, it is likely that Custom Servers will eventually be an optional feature that players can access from the Pirate Emporium. We want to learn more about the desired feature set, usage and cost before deciding exactly how to make this something the wider community can access.>

    The highlighted portion I think is a key area to consider. If these end up being Servers that must be paid for, for a determinate amount of time, by what conditions should these paid servers have any form of limitations from the base game?

    Bare with me; This would not be the first game to offer Paid Private/Custom servers. EA most notably has been doing and offering this for years now (among other Publishers). The Battlefield franchise has been offering Paid custom/private servers for years, across many iterations of the game since BF3. These servers allow no gimped aspects of there game. The full multiplayer spectrum is accessible, and able to be utilized both for private games among friends that contribute to progression, as well as allowing for custom rule sets that gear the game to your design while again still ensuring progression for the Multiplayer. Even now, I can log into BF3 -BF4 - Hardline - BF1 - BF5 and purchase a custom server and play to my liking.

    Now again these are not the only games to allow Private or Custom servers with progression of there game. Off the top of my head, even the popular monster of a franchise; Halo had custom game modes, and private match lobbies that still retained progression. Still accessible in Halo 3, 4 and part of 5 (Reach I am not aware of at this time). Even COD:MW introduced custom servers for some of there Matchmaking modes (though I do not play COD so my knowledge of there full features is limited) While not a Custom server, even Fortnite has a "Custom Matchmaking Key" where you can essentially control who you are matched with, and could be construed as a Custom Server for a Match. Even the new game growing in popularity Grounded offers a fully Solo experience without the need for Co-Op. (I site this one because players of the games Rust and Ark had often wanted a version of a Survival sandbox where they could just engage in the world and not with players, and this does provide that, again to a point)

    The thing I am pointing out is simply that in those powerhouse franchises (and others) that have existed far longer than SoT have had exactly what (to a point) PVE players are asking for, and from what I can observe there was no dead playerbase, and no adverse effect on the games as a whole. (And those were explicitly PVP focused games with NO PVE - out side of a campaign mode in certain instances).


    With how this relates to SoT, I question how it would be considered appropriate to charge anything for what could objectively be called a "Gimped" version of the game. You already Pay 50$ for the game on a base level, and even if play for free through Gamepass, you still might wish to purchase the game outright. While cosmetic only, there are Paid MXT in the game, with one being a recurring purchase of Ancient Coins, and the Appearance Potion. Obviously Servers would not be a one time purchase, and as such you need to ensure making such a purchase is worth your buck.

    (I am just going to use hypothetical numbers so take them with a grain of salt if you must) Lets say RARE does offer a Custom Server for a set price, lets say 20$ for 1 month access to that server. Outside of the occasional community driven events you might create, what benefit of having that server might it serve outside of that community creative event? If you spend that money, there is an intrinsic obligation to use it, so its not wasted, therefore (theoretically) you would be spending more time in a version of the game that provides nothing to your standard SoT experience. Sure you were able to hop into a Custom Server and play "Skull Ball", "Hot Potato" with a GPBarrel, or have a "Race" from one end of the map to another, or anything less common you can think of that is not practically possible in standard adventure or arena, but what would it do other than create a brief potential for a YT video or Twitch stream? Nothing TBH.

    Time spent in that server could be spent playing the game you already payed for, and actually progressing (be it through PVP or PVE) If an event is going on, or say your trying to max out the Seasons or the upcoming Plunder Pass (the Pass which would also cost money, and require time to be spent in the main game where progression is being recorded), you could ostensibly be wasting your time in a Server with no progression when you could be progressing in the standard game. Why pay for this server then? (Even if your content creator?)

    What then if RARE charged 100$ for say a Year of Server access? Would you be ok paying that much (Honestly you could insert just about any price tag, with any increment of time) for a gimped version of the game? Why pay for a Custom Server with no progression, when the game your already playing (and payed for) provides more benefit? Sure those offshoot community events Joe and RARE talk about is fun in brief stints, but would you really be ok with paying a premium price just to do that (Especially if your NOT a content creator?) My question is; is it fair to pay for a server that is less than the main game? You might as well be paying for a Book, but then paying someone else to Read the book for you. You already have the book, read it yourself (horrible analogy I know but hopefully the point is understood).


    I wont pretend that I am not an advocate for PVE servers, and if I am going to Pay for a Server (regardless of Price or Time Increment), I expect it to be equal, not less, than the Game I already payed for (and continue to put money into through the Emporium and yes the Plunderpass). If I pay for something (in this game or others), its not unreasonable to have what your paying for contribute meaningfully to the game at large. Obviously, RARE is smitten on there community driven content, but lets acknowledge that the Majority is NOT content creators, is NOT Youtubers or Streamers. Sure a modest number are, but among the 15,000,000 players RARE has touted, its hardly even a droplet in the ocean.

    If these Custom Servers (in there current form without progression) become a proper offering in the Pirate Emporium, I certainly wont be giving RARE my money on that front. However, if RARE offers a Custom Server with Progression, that is something I am willing to shell out IRL Cash for. That honestly a more important question I would ask all of you and I would like your perspective on;

    Are you willing to pay for a Server WITH or WITHOUT Progress?

    That alone quite frankly would force RARE's hand. If they see money in offering a Proper Custom PVE server, vs a Custom 0 Progress Server; I'm willing to bet I know what direction they will swing (I don't even mean that cynically, its just business at that point, and no amount of outcry from anti-PVE players would stop that.)

  • 3

    @stormwind81 said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    Oh yeah lets cater to a specific demographic just because they like to do PvE stuff together but not to a different one because it's against our "vision" ;)

    You forget, you are a demographic as well who wants just PvP :)

    Try to think openely about others and not just yourself :)

  • 0

    @menphuess Was my sarcasm so good you just assume the greatest possible error?

  • 1

    @stormwind81 said in Custom Server Update Discussion:

    @menphuess Was my sarcasm so good you just assume the greatest possible error?

    No, I just do not do sarcasm and prefer to be genuine and upfront as sarcasm is a negative approach and it’s not needed

  • 0

    @menphuess What I see is someone who makes a mistake, makes a wrong assumption, doesn't care about it or apologizes for it and then continues to pretend that he hasn't done anything wrong and then flips words around as if sarcasm is bad just because he doesnt understands the fine art. Good job.

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    Give us the ability to host and mod our own servers.... You wont work on arena so let the pvp community make their own PVP mode.... or least give us arena in private servers

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    I wanted to through some numbers out there since I have read that players think RARE would never go for a Proper PVE server, and only keep the current version they are testing without progression. This is simply food for thought and a reminder that RARE is a business.


    (Again this is a Purely hypothetical and made up numbers, what RARE will do is still a way away)

    I have read that many people would be willing to pay for a proper PVE server. While many decry this it begs the question how much could RARE potentially obtain from paying customers?

    If RARE was to release Custom servers for say 20$ a month, roughly 240$ a year. If you had roughly all 15million players purchasing the server even for 1 month, that would equal: 300,000,000$ just for 1 month. If they purchased for a full year, that would equate to 3,600,000,000$ (Yes that is a Billion). Quite appealing for a business.

    Now granted those number are if all 15million alleged players actually purchased a custom server at 20$. Obviously it hard to know how many would pay or wont, its hard to know if 20$ would be the set price or higher or lower. Still just these numbers are enough to warrant a smart business person to look into the opportunity.

    Now again this is under the concept that the servers are a proper server. I would be willing to make the educated guess these hypothetical numbers would go down if the average player was paying for what we currently have in development.

    Food for thought if nothing else.

  • 1

    @jadedragon00
    Why would everyone buy a server ? To play alone ?

    If people don't want to pay $240 a year and just don't want to be bothered with other players perhaps only on the horizon or wave in passing, groups would form of 6 players who solo sloop. Costs will only be $40 per year for those.

    Now take into account larger crews or groups of players who want to sail together.

    Also, do you really think that all of the 15 million persons who played or downloaded the game over the last 3 years still want to have a PvE-server for a year ?

    Your calculation is so much off.

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    @lem0n-curry On the contrary, I am not suggesting that EVERYONE would participate or desire it. I am simply presenting the calculations and the POTENTIAL numbers of what is sitting on the table.

    Trust me, I am under no disillusion that there would be plenty of people who would either not participate or purchase in said option were it available. (This is apparent in plenty of games, not just SoT). Frankly I am under the impression it would be a much smaller % of the players, but enough to warrant implementation. Lets at least acknowledge that most companies dont need even 50% participation to implement a feature for Monetization - Now if it were just the 3% 'i.e' the population alleged to be remaining of Arena, that would be a different story and even then since it would potentially be a recurring purchase the monetary gains are still present over time.

    My point with the estimated numbers was simply to showcase the Money that is sitting on the table. I will leave the attempts at getting players to Rent or Buy up to not only the players who DO want a proper Custom Server, but also the Marketing team and any advertisements they wish to create to temp others to at least try it (even once lol).

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    @jadedragon00 the flaw in all that math is not taking into account the impact of the players that would no longer play this game if they brought in a paid safe space for some players.

    Let’s keep the 15 mill number from your example and say 7 million left or no longer open their wallet for emporium items due to them being upset over progression private servers. That’s potentially $60/month (average new items added to emporium each month) over 7 million players. That equals a LOSS of $420 million per month plus a much lower player base due to players in private servers AND players quitting the game creating lower adventure mode player count in a doubled result.

    I don’t know about you but it seems the loss far outweighs the benefits of theoretically bringing casual PvE-only players back who most likely would not spend in the emporium and only generate revenue off of private server rentals.

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    @kommodoreyenser I will acknowledge the hypothetical numbers, but I have to say that your example, is suggesting that roughly 47% of the playerbase just drops off because of one feature being implemented, is in an of itself, hard to believe would occur. However this would be offset (In part though again, its all hypothetical) by players who would Join and the remains players who are spending there money.

    The chain reaction of 'players leaving" and "players joining' is not a one way street. For every player that leaves, another can join and with this game being freely available on Game pass, its hardly in danger of not being accessible. On top of that, it needs to be understood the "Standard" game mode (if a PVE server was to be enacted in the manner I have described) would not disappear so many players who do not like or would not participate in the PVE server would still remain, even at a smaller number. Sure it might bring about the conversation of "splitting the playerbase" and the semantics currently being discussed, but the overall player retention or income from players would remain roughly the same (in theory at least). In the end, your suggesting that the feature's potential implementation (if I am not misunderstanding) would only cause players to leave, not join. This is just not true. As to what scale it would be, that is obviously the debate at hand.


    To acknowledge your point, I do believe there would be a modest number of players who could not stomach the idea of a PVE server being implemented, but I would be hard pressed to believe its such a high number that it would affect RARE's bottom line. Though if they were so easily dissuaded from the game due to one feature, it begs the purely subjective question as to why they enjoyed the game in such a narrow focus in the first place but I digress that point.

    As to the potential 420million loss, I honestly cannot disagree with the math your using, but the selective application is where I disagree. To equate a loss, would mean that players would have to stop purchasing all together, not just from one feature. Emporium Updates alone will still draw in new players wallets, Whales and those with disposable income will buy just about everything that get dropped anyway, and even the Recurring purchase of the Appearance Potion and Ancient Coins will generate income for RARE. Even if RARE lost 47% of its playerbase (as you suggest might happen), leaving only 53% left, roughly 8million players, I already covered the numbers even hypothetically obtained just from an annual purchase from only 240$ a year (20$ a month from my example), with the potential if all 8million remaining players were to pay for the servers for even just 1 year. This would equate to $1,920,000,000 (that is a Billion mind you) which after 1 year makes up that 420million loss by 1.5billion in profits. Just after 1 year, and this is under the assumption that all players remaining if the other 47% that leave purchased the PVE server just for 1 year. Now if all players only purchased for 1 month at 20$, it would equate 160million, a loss from your 420million of 260million, but after just 3 months they come out ahead by 60million, at 480million. Profit from there on in. (again this does not even include any potential PE purchases alongside a server rental) Remember most items in the Emporium are a 1 time purchase anyway. The Server Rental I am suggesting is a recurring purchase of no small amount over time, and far more in terms of potential annual generated income for RARE.


    Now again, the point is not to prove or disprove hypothetical numbers (math is just math), but simply to point out that a 420million dollar loss, is not as probable or as longstanding as you are presenting it considering how much of a player spending loss the game would need to take to deter a features implementation. The idea that RARE would suffer a loss of (potentially) 47%, is just too high IMHO. Impossible? No. Improbable? Yes. Long term negativity? Absolutely not.

    As to the incentive to create it and generate income just from the Servers, again, even with only 53% of the player base at roughly 8million, after 3 months, they would dwarf the short term loss, and still generate nearly 2 billion in 1 year of potential revenue. Which swings back to my original point of "money sitting on the table." We can debate the semantics of who spends more, but the loss you are sighting (which while certainly a valid loss, and by no means small), is already offset by month 3 after the features implementation. I would call that (from the business side) quite the incentive. And it would hardly be the first time ANY company took a short term loss, to generate profits.


    Though as you and I are both pointing out, these are ALL hypothetical and potential numbers. I acknowledge again, that it would be hard to say what would or would not happen. We can only make assumptions at this point. My point was more so, to showcase the number on the table. I will defer to RARE's marketing team to tell me if these numbers do or dont hold water.