Just my 2 cents to boarding defense, since a lot has already been said: if you are guarding a ladder with a blunderbuss, and know that someone's about to board, get in the habit of weapon-canceling once you fire the shot. In other words, don't just shoot and hope for the best; shoot and immediately switch to your (hopefully) sword. That way, you're ready in case they didn't fall off or die and/or faked you out.

Would certainly give people a reason to say "MAN OVERBOARD!" Right now, there's literally no reason to say it at all, more like "hey man, use the video game mechanic to try again!"

@lionofwar

I thought you wanted to avoid boarding meta, yet want a harpoon that does the following:

1. Latches on and is harder to remove, making it easier to board.
2. While latched on causes water to flow into the ship, sinking it.
3. Require the ship to be moving to get rid of it... meaning if someone boards you in any way, anchors you and their team harpoons you, it is guaranteed to be sinking unless you can get moving again... or board them and detach it manually.

Are you sure you want naval combat and not a boarding meta? As you are removing all down sides to the harpoon, making it stronger... for boarders.

@d3adst1ck Depends on what constitutes a hard maneuver. Maybe crossing the line into a rock or using your own harpoon to make a hard turn. This isn't intended to distract from the original post it was merely me making conversation.

@lionofwar said in A Way To Improve Ship Combat:

@cotu42 I was saying that a new harpoon could be loaded into the mechanism that is a cursed variant that also fills the ship with water. This one would not simply be shot or slashed off, but would require some hard turns or an anchor drop to dislodge. It was just an off the cuff idea.

So it would be even easier to board if you land one of those?

@cotu42 I was saying that a new harpoon could be loaded into the mechanism that is a cursed variant that also fills the ship with water. This one would not simply be shot or slashed off, but would require some hard turns or an anchor drop to dislodge. It was just an off the cuff idea.

@lionofwar Maybe for you... it's about avoiding Mario, for me I rejoice when I see Mario jump off and I am in the mood for naval combat... I hope he likes the water levels, because I will try and avoid that mermaid from popping up by sticking near enough, but just out of reach... meaning their ship tends to stick around and never gets that mermaid to pop and leaving them with the choice: Swim away or try and get that board... as I am not to far away.

It is about naval positioning, jump to soon into the water and people that know what they are doing can keep you in limbo.

@cotu42 I agree, learning is part of the game. I have stated with others making the same criticism, my complaint is not about my ability to shoot someone from a ladder. Its about the frequency that I must do it. Every encounter devolves to a boarding hoard. The game has become less about cannon angles and approaches and more about preventing Mario from getting on my ship.

@nabberwar @CotU42

Thanks mates. I'll try experimenting. This is good insight.

@doctorfork

Straight up question, looking for advice:

Every time someone boards my ship, I can shoot them on the ladder with a blunder and they do not fall off the ladder. Am I doing something wrong, or are they doing a jump/grab at just the right time?

It can be both. One can still grab ladder even getting shot fully. Blunderbuss isn't really known for its consistency. What I prefer to do instead is wait til they crest to top deck if I have the blundy. They are reaching a point of no return there. If the Blunder doesn't kill them, then the follow slice will most certainly. Most people aren't quick enough to block that initial sword swipe. If you have a partner, I let them shoot and break there grab while I play as back up if he misses.

Additionally, on a sloop, the time to climb a ladder is under two seconds, and from there, it's an additional 1 second to hit the anchor. I literally cannot turn around fast enough to correct this if I hear someone surface and I guessed they came up on the wrong side. Should I be waiting further back, or is defending the ladders really only a viable solution in galleons?

For me, its not about reaction time, you mention the number of seconds, if you are just noticing the boarding attempt right then, its usually too late. My take on things, is learning what is an opportune time to board rather then catching them in the act.

If you are trailing a ship, you can reasonable expect a boarding attempt. So I will usually watch for people. I tend to not be on the wheel all the time, the ship doesn't need constant attention for steering so its fine to let go as long as your path is set. I will usually be at the bow spirit if I am in a duo watching for those plays.

Other moments are rather then listing for the splash, but listening for that cannon then paying attention to that cannon if it has a ball or not. If it has no trail then its a player. Ultimately its key to develop situational awareness and not get distracted with one task. If you are shooting cannons, you should also be watching their cannons for one of those ball-less shots. Also paying attention to their top deck if you are going for a swim/dash board. If you are steering, while you pay attention to your positioning, you should be simultaneously be watching your opponents. A ship parallel to you will have an easy boarding attempt, but one behind you out of dash reach will not. If you know you are within dash boarding reach expect a boarding. Avoid horse-blinders as much as you can, its easier said then done though

If you ever watch those pro-players do those insane reaction plays, most of its due to expecting before it actually happens. Reaction time only plays a partial role, its easier to catch a ball when you know its coming than it is to catch it while unaware.

@lionofwar you know you can dislodge a harpoon by shooting it?

@doctorfork Yeah, I can understand the criticism of saving a ship being too easy. But it shouldnt be a crutch response as to why the solitary counter is to board and act like a kangaroo. I know you are agreeing, I'm just responding.

Maybe an alternate mechanic can be applied to harpoons that if hooked they open a hole that cannot be repaired till the harpoon is dislodged by extreme maneuvers.

@doctorfork

Do you aim down sight? It helps with the spread and distance, hit registration can also play a part. Additionally you can choose to let them come up and blast them at one-shot range for a kill or use the sword, to not have to deal with reload times.

On a sloop take a single step back from hovering over the ladder can also help, additionally this will allow you to step forward and shoot; a big part of the let go and grab is timing, making it harder for them to predict your actions will help prevent them from grabbing it and you should allow you to be able to turn around quick enough to cover both ladders in a pinch in these cases.

Straight up question, looking for advice:

Every time someone boards my ship, I can shoot them on the ladder with a blunder and they do not fall off the ladder. Am I doing something wrong, or are they doing a jump/grab at just the right time?

Additionally, on a sloop, the time to climb a ladder is under two seconds, and from there, it's an additional 1 second to hit the anchor. I literally cannot turn around fast enough to correct this if I hear someone surface and I guessed they came up on the wrong side. Should I be waiting further back, or is defending the ladders really only a viable solution in galleons?

The only real defense I've employed with considerable success is to stack garbage crates on top of the anchor, which is what I do every time I have non-glowy stuff.

@kommodoreyenser Hmm... I see where you are going with this. It sounds a little clunky from a players perspective but I like the thinking outside the box.

My issues are with taking time away from shooting or repairing to look for people in water. The retractable ladders is merely a way to focus the gameplay on the clearly more developed/fun parts of the game.

Plus, as a sloop player. Its easy enough to get knocked from the deck as is.

@lionofwar

@nabberwar Once again your curt response of "Truth can hurt sometimes." sounds like the response of an elitist. You are making lots of assumptions based on the feedback here. I have provided tactics and the mechanics from the game I have encountered in masse and have seen since before the game was released, only evolved. You can see from my profile that I do in fact have some tenure in the game dating back to the even the beta.

I have already looked at your profile before I started in this thread, you have under 1,000 combined items over a 2+ year span. Meanwhile, my smallest category is almost double your combined total. You started the game early, neat, but you played sparsely over that time-span. Meanwhile, I may have not been in the beta, but I have played significanly more over that span with the numbers to prove it.
Your Loot - 968
My Loot - 6,522

Stop trying to take shots because I ask for an improvement to the game.

I will take shots at subjects I feel are detrimental to the game. Retractable Ladders is a detriment. There is a better approach that won't be a detriment.

It is painfully clear you do not wish to engage in dialogue about the mechanics but rather state someone's inferiority to you.

I have provide a list of alternatives to demonstrate what could be done as an alternative. Its the quote the @doctorfork mentioned early. If you want to change the meta, you solve why people are boarding. You don't just remove something and hope for the best.

The games Player on Player combat is boring.

Hard disagree, ship combat is awesome, especially when you know how to stop boarding. Its a beautiful thing seeing crews adapt, they start breaking out the really cool tactics.

Edit: This will be the last time I engage with you unless you level to me a counter argument that is more than "I'm better than you!"

You are way to focused on one parts of my posts and seem to refuse to actually address the points I'm making. Your posts can be summarized as "You're wrong and stop being a meanie."

@lionofwar said in A Way To Improve Ship Combat:

Stop trying to take shots because I ask for an improvement to the game.

That's subjective, I don't think it is an improvement at all.

@nabberwar You beat me too it, if they want to change the boarding meta then they need to make ships easier to sink with canons alone.

@nabberwar Once again your curt response of "Truth can hurt sometimes." sounds like the response of an elitist. You are making lots of assumptions based on the feedback here. I have provided tactics and the mechanics from the game I have encountered in masse and have seen since before the game was released, only evolved. You can see from my profile that I do in fact have some tenure in the game dating back to the even the beta.

"When you say things like this, I can't help but think you are one of those PvE types who detest combat."
^Assumption.
"If you are under the mindset that PvP is this profitable way to play this game, it cements on how little you do it in this game."
^Assumption.
"Its only PvE crowd that will request it, because they refuse to adapt."
^Assumption yet again.

Stop trying to take shots because I ask for an improvement to the game.

It is painfully clear you do not wish to engage in dialogue about the mechanics but rather state someone's inferiority to you. The bottom line is, I could care less if you think I'm an amateur or am wrong. Present a more compelling argument beyond "WhatAboutMe-isms?"

The games Player on Player combat is boring. They have tried to evolve it with little success. My argument has nothing to do with skill. Nor am I asking them to not build on that aspect of the game. Improve it by all means.

I am bringing to their attention a distraction from what is otherwise a compelling, rewarding and well built aspect of the experience.

Edit: This will be the last time I engage with you unless you level to me a counter argument that is more than "I'm better than you!"

@bugaboo-bill I appreciate your feedback. And while I love all the additions like "resurrection" or throwables. You are right, it makes sinking a ship purely through cannonball volleys a chore with a competent crew.

It is however a joy. Watching a hop goblin make way to my anchor is not.

@lionofwar

Additionally, just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to be curt in the majority of your responses. Especially considering most of them are personal opinions on how a single post of his is supposed to reflect every encounter he has ever had.

My opinion is based off of since Day 1 sailing experience, a foundation built upon almost exclusively ship combat. I find the PvE dull, so I almost exclusively fight people. If all one does is fight ships, they tend to get a good grasp on what works best and how to counter it.

Truthfully, you don't know his skill level.

Most people have their accounts open, so I usually will snoop. If I combine the entirety of all the loot he has obtained, its less than 500. This is pocket change and demonstrates inexperience. Amount of loot turned in is a good indicator on experience.

First, the boarding technique is not rare. It is in fact the most common maneuver I see EVERY PVP'r attempt. This is because it DOES work so often.
Firebomb, Board, Go for anchor while leaping around on a pogo stick. If it doesn't work TRY AGAIN!
^Boring

This strategy screams amateur. Why you may ask? Because it shows what you consider a good strategy. Fire in this game is honestly a joke and if anything more of a nuisance rather than a strategy. One can essentially ignore fire and keep on sailing til they disengage from a fight. If people are that focused on the fire, it demonstrates their inexperience. It takes a fully engulfed ship afire for around 10 minutes before it actually does anything. That is plenty of time to deal with it, taking care of it can be an afterthought.

Especially when a Galleon attempts this on a sloop. And before you respond with the sloop should sail into the wind. Understood, this still means now a Galleon is gating a player or two from playing their game.

When you say things like this, I can't help but think you are one of those PvE types who detest combat. It makes me inclined to believe you are inexperienced to combat. Your instinct is to immediately run, that screams PvE player. No one is gating anyone, fighting is one equal part of the game. No one is gated when people are playing the game in what constitutes as normal play. Sloops are by far some of the easier ships to avoid combat as well as boarding. The ship is great at sharp turns, thus by extension, great at out positioning a boarding attempt. Can't board if the ship positions itself in a way that can't be boarded. Galleons can't turn on dimes, if all you do is turn against wind, you only understand 1 part of what makes the sloop a good ship.

Thirdly, it is a fact that PVP players invest less time to get rewards. Maybe, upon circumstance, this is due to less need of kitting the ship. But in the current version of the game, now that emissaries exist a pvp crew only needs to sign in and check the map to dog a target.

Player ships have the potential to be the biggest threat in the game, stealing from a competent ship is much harder than digging up a chest or pulling it out of a barrel patch. It also can be much more resource intensive considering you are facing thinking creatures that can adapt to a scenario unlike its PvE counterparts. If you are under the mindset that PvP is this profitable way to play this game, it cements on how little you do it in this game. Good crews don't sink easily, they also tend to be smart about how much they hoard. Simple put they don't hoard, so you will most likely never catch them with a haul that is worth the effort. The only people who sink like stones are the bad/inexperienced crews, but they won't have good loot to begin with.

Lastly, this isn't a PVP versus PVE thread. You seem to be a player who enjoys PVP. That is great and I encourage that. Some others are more PVE driven, good on them. The point of this post is to improve the game so not every encounter is limited to which side can drop the others anchor first.

It becomes a PvP versus PvE thread, because the PvE players refuse to learn the other half of the game. Instead of learning how to guard ladders, they would rather the game fix it for them, and considering they lack experience and knowledge in that topic, they have no clue on how bad that idea is in the game. You won't will rarely see your PvP players requesting this feature, because they understand how to defend from it. Its only PvE crowd that will request it, because they refuse to adapt.

TLDR: Don't be rude because you disagree. Especially since most of your responses are opinions motivated by what seems a personal vendetta against PVE gamers.

Truth can hurt sometimes. PvE player tend to have zero grasp on what the META is and how to counter it.

PS: Thank you for the continued discussion on something I genuinely know would improve the game.

I love discussion, I just don't agree with you on this.

@d3adst1ck I would argue that chainshot encourages boarding.

In my experience, even with these added to the game, (All good additions) it still is about dropping that anchor while imitating a bouncy ball.

@nabberwar In response I would add that for some of us, it is about the flow of the game no longer being entertaining due to the overwhelming majority of player on player encounters resulting in a player boarding and going for the anchor. The meta in these engagements is not as fun/rewarding as ship on ship combat.

• Hence, the discussion on a way to curb this element of the game. All the while creating a more tactical and varied set of circumstances to ship functionality.

Additionally, just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to be curt in the majority of your responses. Especially considering most of them are personal opinions on how a single post of his is supposed to reflect every encounter he has ever had.

Truthfully, you don't know his skill level. Regardless, him opining about the lesser or frustrating aspects of the problems in the game doesn't deserve uncivil or rude reactions. This is a place to open discussion.

Now, in response to your criticism.
(Primarily A Sloop Experienced Player)

First, the boarding technique is not rare. It is in fact the most common maneuver I see EVERY PVP'r attempt. This is because it DOES work so often.
Firebomb, Board, Go for anchor while leaping around on a pogo stick. If it doesn't work TRY AGAIN!
^Boring
Especially when a Galleon attempts this on a sloop. And before you respond with the sloop should sail into the wind. Understood, this still means now a Galleon is gating a player or two from playing their game. Every time I want to assault a ghost fleet I must turn into the wind to avoid a galleon. Limiting boarding potential allows the smaller fish to still put out some offensive punches. Currently, it boils down to one player steering/sailing while the other watches the ladders. Meanwhile the galleon has a player in the water, another steering and two others blowing holes in the sloop. The sloop cannot defend itself and must run.
(Skill level not accounted for. For the purposes of discussion lets say they are of equal skill.)

Secondly, Spawn Killing is a major issue. Period. Sloops especially are in a hard spot in most engagements due to the offensive output/firing angles of the other vessels and/or one wrong move resulting in a plethora of punishment due to load times and spawn killing. No way to argue around this one.

Thirdly, it is a fact that PVP players invest less time to get rewards. Maybe, upon circumstance, this is due to less need of kitting the ship. But in the current version of the game, now that emissaries exist a pvp crew only needs to sign in and check the map to dog a target. This target meanwhile has grinded out 5 levels of the emissary to now get harassed by a crew that invested a fraction of that time. (I love the emissaries, not a criticism on that addition) But it does have this inherited side effect.

Lastly, this isn't a PVP versus PVE thread. You seem to be a player who enjoys PVP. That is great and I encourage that. Some others are more PVE driven, good on them. The point of this post is to improve the game so not every encounter is limited to which side can drop the others anchor first.

TLDR: Don't be rude because you disagree. Especially since most of your responses are opinions motivated by what seems a personal vendetta against PVE gamers.

PS: Thank you for the continued discussion on something I genuinely know would improve the game.

@bugaboo-bill a good crew will not let your board either... somehow the only way to board them is by engaging in naval combat first, ensuring that you put enough pressure on and then get a boarder on usually by good cannon shot or amazing maneuvering coupled with cannon fire cover.

Yes boarding is part of the game... pirates boarded ships - you hype on pirate fantasy right... it is part of it, you indicate you want it to be skill based and against a skilled crew that is exactly what is required. Just swim up and grab the ladder, is usually punished with ease if not supported properly by the rest of your crew if we are talking about skilled pirates.

Naval positioning is by far the most important aspect in ship on ship combat with competent people, as that makes sure you can bounce back from nearly any situation... when to engage, when to disengage and all that... you are a helmsman and yet you don't see this? You are the one that keeps the ship safe, places your ship in a position to apply pressure and ensure that it is harder to board...

Personally I expressed my discontent with the revival system, people keep telling me it is a good thing... I am still not convinced.

Btw. if you see people as the kid vs adult as your picture suggests... you missed the point of all pirates are equal, we all have the same tools and stats. Naturally if you have a Pro versus an Amateur you will lose, but they have the same tools and abilities... just not the same skill, talent and practice. There is no skilled match making system, you will meet people that are better than you... welcome to a shared world open multiplayer game.