@gutterangel Are there separate servers for PC and Xbox players? I thought it's one big mash.
Is PvP really 'fun'?
@ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
@combatxkitty said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
One more thing I want to add is ship fights are fun. Ive gotten into them plenty times and a good ole cannon ball fight is glorious. However nobody seems to want to do that. They just want to shoot over and try to board non stop, hopping around my ship like a frog who just smoked a bad batch of crack. Boring and predictable.
Yes, that is one of my concerns as well. Fighting in this game should be about ship to ship fights, cannonballs flying, maneuvering and counter-maneuvering, and not this 'live cannonball' attraction, that is just ridiculous, and should be removed from the game altogether. And sure, releasing the anchor of another ship is a valid move, but it's made way too trivial this way. In real life, boarding the ship is the hard part, as you need to get up in their face for it, and you can't just pull a Matilda Richter and yeet yourself over. As for P2P combat, it is quite limited, but it would be fine as long as the S2S combat took the majority of the fight. Which it doesn't.
Well that is where I am at a crossroads because I actually enjoy shooting out of the cannon feature so I would not want it completely taken out.
@combatxkitty said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Well that is where I am at a crossroads because I actually enjoy shooting out of the cannon feature so I would not want it completely taken out.
I do. It's immersion breaking and it heavily affects PvP fights. That's too much for a 'cheap joke' that it is.
@ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
@combatxkitty said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Well that is where I am at a crossroads because I actually enjoy shooting out of the cannon feature so I would not want it completely taken out.
I do. It's immersion breaking and it heavily affects PvP fights. That's too much for a 'cheap joke' that it is.
It does make PvP come off as childish. Boarders are easy enough to deal with just catch them on fire and slice and dice but it is annoying when your opponent is so focused on boarding that they are not putting much effort at all into ship combat.
@combatxkitty said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
... it is annoying when your opponent is so focused on boarding that they are not putting much effort at all into ship combat.
I mean, without the human cannonball shebang, it's pretty hard to board an enemy ship and be useful. They either need to go close/ram the ship, or try to climb the ladders - which makes them an easy target if you watch your ladders.
Its not bland but your making it bland by not taking advantage of what the sandbox game offers. Shooting people out of cannons should be a main thing in SoT if you ask me. We should even get a personal sail to hold onto to parachute/glide onto boats. With that said we do need more tools to go about PvP
@gutterangel said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
I'm curious what server type this was on. Xbox players complain about seeing too many ships, PC players don't see enough ships to get too much anything. PC servers are gutted until steam release.
I haven't had any problems finding ships on Crossplay servers.
@tubiansayne I've probably written that down about 5 or 6 times now, but it's not my goal to do PvP. I don't desperately want to do PvP. That's the whole thing, the game doesn't really give you a reason to want PvP because it doesn't align with the central directive of the game. Sure, you can go to the Arena, but that's a different game mode, and we're now talking about the 'core' game, which is Adventure mode, and how PvP should fit into it, but seemingly doesn't.
@ilumineir your argument that PvP is not lucrative enough, that you should not risk any of your rewards, that the OOS voyages are boring, that merchant voyages are boring...
Is the exact same as stating: I don't like this, you might not agree.
Solving puzzles: Not everyone enjoys.
Reading maps: Not everyone enjoys.It gives you a sense of satisfaction to one tap a dig, to solve a riddle... I know many that avoid riddles like a plague - to long, to much effort for a single chest! I enjoy them and yet I have been on many Athena voyages, where I am shot off to do the riddle while they head to the next island to do some skeleton hunting.
My point is:
This is an open world game, some aspects you will enjoy and others you will not and visa versa. It is a shared world, not everything is crafted to make it fun for you!There are people out there that enjoy a hunt, there are people that enjoy a good tuck, some people enjoy avoiding all player interaction and you have people like me that will interact with people even when they shouldn't (by your standards of gold above all).
Risk what you like, enjoy the tasks you do... yet to state: The game doesn't support PvP from its design? Yes it does, go do a Fort of the Damned and see for yourself how often people show up. Not everything in the game is designed to promote PvP, it is a PvEvP game after all. It is meant to be done together... I really don't get you people that go like: I PVE or PVP... it is a shared world, do both at the same time... but then I risk my PVE chests... so? That is what it was also designed to do: You bring your loot, I bring mine, the victor gets it all! Don't bring anything and the other will take off to secure what they have...
You create your own opportunities and challenges, if you avoid others don't be surprised you don't get a lot of pvp action. Roll up to people all the time and even if you have nothing (especially if you roll up while being out numbered) ... a fight is bound to happen. The legendary last words of a Legendary pirate captain I met:
"A sloop cannot roll up on a galleon like this out of the blue."
Guess what... we battled, while I had nothing of value.Sorry I missed that part :)
To help spend less time hunting ships you can put up the reapers or reapers bones flag. Either will make you visible on the map and people can hunt you if they so chose. If you get rank 5 in reapers emmisary you can see them and head straight to them so no searching required!
I mentioned trying to upgrade and bring attention to ship battles in a diff post because they are an afterthought in this game and I was told I didnt understand pvp lol but I agree with you, more actual ship battles would be nice. I feel like I've been in more ship battles in arena the last week then in adventure for months. Granted the two shouldnt be equal but I'm going at 0-3 ship battles in adventure in a 24 hour period..typically 0 so some incentive to battle it out would be nice
@cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
@ilumineir your argument that PvP is not lucrative enough, that you should not risk any of your rewards, that the OOS voyages are boring, that merchant voyages are boring...
Is the exact same as stating: I don't like this, you might not agree.
Solving puzzles: Not everyone enjoys.
Reading maps: Not everyone enjoys.It gives you a sense of satisfaction to one tap a dig, to solve a riddle... I know many that avoid riddles like a plague - to long, to much effort for a single chest! I enjoy them and yet I have been on many Athena voyages, where I am shot off to do the riddle while they head to the next island to do some skeleton hunting.
That so funny. We do the same thing to our third crew mate when he joins us who enjoys riddles, make him do them while we do anything else lol.
@cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Solving puzzles: Not everyone enjoys.
Reading maps: Not everyone enjoys.
Still not an argument. I went into great detail explaining why solving puzzles and reading maps could be fun. I also went into great detail to explain why looking for an invisible trigger point with no clue whatsoever (hunting skellies) is not. This is not a matter of opinions, we can factually state that one is an activity that proposes some form of challenge-reward mechanism, some might like it, some might not, but it's there, while the other is just plainly a bad design because game mechanics like this ought to bring frustration. Regardless of opinions, it is NOT fun run around an island for a long time, visiting just about every part 4 times because you didn't manage to find the (probably small) trigger zone for the skeletons. I'll wager that nobody will say that aimlessly running around for 20 minutes is fun.I know many that avoid riddles like a plague - to long, to much effort for a single chest!
No game mechanic will satisfy everyone. That is a law. But there are game mechanics that will probably satisfy the majority, and some that will hardly satisfy anyone.
Not everything is crafted to make it fun for you!
That's ironic considering you've just argued that some might not like digging treasure.
There are people out there that enjoy a hunt
"There are", "some are", "not everyone". You're saying the same thing over and over. I'm not talking about how some people like this and some like that. I'm talking about how the game is designed, and how PvP fails to fit into it. Sure, some people like to go hunt for ships. What ships, again? Those that are almost empty, and willing to fight, or those that are full of load, and run with their lives? Because these categories exist, and then there's the minority.
The game doesn't support PvP from its design? Yes it does, go do a Fort of the Damned and see for yourself how often people show up. Not everything in the game is designed to promote PvP, it is a PvEvP game after all.
Fort of the Damned is an event, a special case. However, the game IS designed in a way that PvP SHOULD be a major part of core gameplay, as it is the 'threat' that complements PvE. PvP SHOULD work in all aspects of the game. Yet, it doesn't.
... but then I risk my PVE chests... so? That is what it was also designed to do: You bring your loot, I bring mine, the victor gets it all!
That is NOT how the game is designed, though. As I'be written in pretty deep detail, the game is designed, whether you like it or not, around PROGRESSION. And what you've just written contradicts that design. The average (I repeat, average) player will not risk their hard earned loot for a PvP fight. You can't really prove your point until you disprove my main argument, that the game is completely designed around the concept of progression.
How is it ironic: Not everything is crafted to make it fun for you! Just like not everything is crafted to make it fun for anyone! They have a shared world: meaning that they have to cater to the PvE crowed, the PvP crowed and the majority: a mix!
Fort of the Damned is a special case... what it is part of the game. Your argument is: The game is not designed around PvP, yet this is an event focused on creating PvP encounters.
How does pvp not work in all aspects of the game? I fight people during voyages, I fight people at outposts, I fight people during events, I fight people during tall tales.. sometimes my own sometimes that of others.
The game is not designed around progression, you make it about progression. You can be a sailor or a pirate legend, it doesn't matter; the way you handle yourself makes you the victor in this game.
All pirates are equal! No matter how much gold you have, how many fancy outfits you own, how many rare titles you are displaying on your character and ship... it does not impress me. I have played the game since day one , I have been a Pirate Legend Athena 10 before the shrouded ghost even appeared in this world. The title means nothing, the gold I have means nothing, the gold flows like water in the sea... it is abundant and everywhere.
Progression, sure you can get achievements, levels, outfits... but they do nothing for the gameplay. The balance remains the same whether you walk around naked or in full ghost outfit.
Your notion that treasure on your ship means you should avoid combat? I have a very different perspective, for me it is about the joy of the game session. The true design principle behind the game and stated clearly by Rare since before day one: Player Interaction!
You can play every day of the week or once a month, it doesn't matter... the better pirate will win, the pirate that makes the correct choices and execute them will achieve their goals.
This is an open world game, your goal might be to progress. your goal might to be rich... my goal is to have fun, chill, relax, risk it all for a good story. Treasure, gold, reputation... it will follow and come. Character progress means very little in the game, it is pure an ego and ooh pretty aspect of the game... it is not what the game-play is about.
@cotu42 said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
How is it ironic: Not everything is crafted to make it fun for you! Just like not everything is crafted to make it fun for anyone! They have a shared world: meaning that they have to cater to the PvE crowed, the PvP crowed and the majority: a mix!
It is ironic considering that you're trying to counter my argument by saying that "not everyone likes this and that". Then you counter your own counterargument by saying "Not everything is made to be fun for you". Touché, my friend.
Fort of the Damned is a special case... what it is part of the game. Your argument is: The game is not designed around PvP, yet this is an event focused on creating PvP encounters.
Fort of the Damned is a PvP event. Of course a PvP event is centered around PvP. The core gameplay, however is not FotD, unless every single island on the map is a fort with the event active at all times. The core gameplay is people doing voyages, representing Trading Companies, and people hunting them. That is THE core gameplay. That is what people do by default, and then they might go do some events, or go tot he Arena. This is where PvP SHOULD work, but doesn't. Getting my point yet?
How does pvp not work in all aspects of the game? I fight people during voyages, I fight people at outposts, I fight people during events, I fight people during tall tales.. sometimes my own sometimes that of others.
It doesn't work, because it fails to align with the main directive of the game. Very rarely do you do PvP battles that earn you progress. PvP battles in the core game are scarce, and they are underwhelming in terms of rewards because of what I've said around 10 times by now.
The game is not designed around progression, you make it about progression. You can be a sailor or a pirate legend, it doesn't matter; the way you handle yourself makes you the victor in this game.
The game is designed around progression. What you're stating here is players choosing the play the game differently. Different from what it is INTENDED to be played. Your decision to play differently won't change the game, it only changes what you do. Your personal choices have nothing to do with this topic.
Progression, sure you can get achievements, levels, outfits... but they do nothing for the gameplay. The balance remains the same whether you walk around naked or in full ghost outfit.
Other way around. The gameplay is designed around acquiring these achivements, levels, outfits. They don't 'add' to the gameplay, they are the goal of the gameplay by design.
Your notion that treasure on your ship means you should avoid combat? I have a very different perspective, for me it is about the joy of the game session. The true design principle behind the game and stated clearly by Rare since before day one: Player Interaction!
It doesn't matter what Rare states, or says. What matters is what the game's design says. If their intention was to encourage player interaction, then they messed up, because the game is centered around avoiding it.
This is an open world game, your goal might be to progress. your goal might to be rich...
Not my goal. The game's goal. The goal that every inch of the game's design promotes. I don't choose to pursue riches. The game was designed in a way that you SHOULD do that. I just choose to do what the majority of people do: Exactly what the game expects from me.
@bugaboo-bill couldnt agree more buddy, I always enjoyed both but here my buddies are all pvpers and want pve and pvp servers because that way we can join pvp servers and get tons of pvp but I dont want that, I like not knowing, I like the random funny encounters with crews, some friendly some not, some that pretend to be friendly etc, I feel a lot of that will be lost in a pve only or pvp only server, its the mix of the two together that is so enjoyable and unpredictable.
@ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Ahoy there!
I've been playing this game for just a week, and last night my buddies came up with the idea that instead of our regular gold hoarding, and/or tall tale completing, we should go full PvP. So we did. And it was an incredibly boring experience. I must admit, fighting another ship can be pretty fun, although I don't really agree with some of the more [mod edit] aspects of PvP (like shooting yourself out of a cannon, onto the enemy boat... that's just stupid). But the interval between fights was just sooo damn long, it took ages to actually find some ship to sink, and when we did, it was usually parking besides an island or outpost, sometimes completely unmanned, hardly capable of fighting back. Again, not that interesting sinking a ship that's not really doing anything. So that got me thinking... what is driving these 'full-on PvP' guys forward? Aimlessly sailing with hardly any goal until half an hour or so later a sail finally shows up on the horizon seems pretty underwhelming to me. It took us a 5 hour session to sink 4 ships in total, only 1 of which was actually capable of fighting back. Am I missing something here, or is PvP-ing really that bland?
It's pardon the pun... Whatever floats your boat.
If all you could do in sea of Thieves was sail and dig up treasure I would never of bought sea of Thieves.
I joined for the combat against both other ships and PVE.
I prefer an adventure over a chore of treasure hunting. When I'm treasure hunting I love the thrill of having to escape or fighting back.
Just be happy that the game gives you the option. Because us pirates who you have to keep a look out for, add to the atmosphere and suspense when you set sail. So even if you don't pvp, you still dip your toe in.
So to answer your question.
Yes, it certainly is for lots of people.
It's also not fun for a lot of people too. But that's life.What's fun for me may be boring to somebody else. But the beauty is that since its a shared world, two different ships doing two totally separate things can meet up and nobody knows what anybody intentions are. That's what makes this game so cool.
If pvp is not fun for you that's no problem at all. Just keep doing what makes you happy.
@daringclarky said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Just be happy that the game gives you the option
I've written this time way too many times, just read through it. In short, the game is centered around progression, and because progression is the main scope of the game via gold, reputation and unlocks, it's not worth it to do PvP. You're either carrying too much loot, in which case most players do the wise thing, and avoid combat, or stuck chasing another ship for too long before MAYBE fighting them, but probably not, or fight with ships that have next to no loot on them, hence, making the whole fight fruitless. The game that is designed around progression gives no incentive to do the PvP part of the PvPvE game. Even if you ignored the game's intended directive and did it just for funsies... 4 ships in 5 hours, and only one that shot back.. is that what you consider a good time?
Sea of Thieves is made to be a pirate themed PvPvE sandbox game. Is it PvP centered? No, just an option that is available. Is it PvE heavy in most aspects of the game? Yes, but it doesn't make it a solely PvE game. Progression is a motivator to encourage players to try the multiple ways of playing the game, that's why you need 3 faction at level 50 to get PL. Same thing for commendations, once you reach level cap there is no "real" motivation to keep playing. This game is meant to be played however you enjoy playing, to make memories in and have fun.
@Ilumineir most of what you state regarding the phycology of risk vs reward is true, it wouldn't change if the ship cap was 12 or 18 instead of just 6. PvP would be more common and therefor "more fun" if that was the case. All that the Devs want (as far as I know) is player interaction; be it good or bad, friendships and betrayals, PvE or PvP or both. The common phrase here is 'Tools, Not Rules', anything to make the game more fun for as many as possible without splitting the playerbase.
@ilumineir you've moved the goalpost a bit here. You originally asked if it's fun and you shifted it to "is it meaningful within the context of the game".
Fun is obviously very subjective and a lot of people do find it fun.
Its meaning within the context of the game could use some work, imo and I agree with you a bit there.It would be nice if players were awarded progression/experience for any interaction whether it be getting your boat sunk or sinking another boat that has no loot. Something just a bit more than commendations
That being said, the current state of PVP serves a very real purpose and that's to add an unknown factor to the game. You will always be wondering if that sail on the horizon is going to come for you or not. Even if they are not very likely to attack based on your statements above, you still never know. I've lost a lot of gold betting ships wouldn't attack.
@d3adst1ck They are few and far between for us, although we don't do a lot of server hopping. We land on an outpost we want and go from there. Some nights we see a couple ships or no ships even, over several hour play sessions. They are usually new-ish, and can't put up much of a fight. The only pvp ships are even more rare and usually consist of the skinniest pirates characters, dressed in black and trying tuck and camp tactics and then they leave the server after a couple defeats. The last couple days of the week might pick up in activity and then it falls right off again.
Needless to say but saying it anyway, the crew is excitedly waiting for the steam release and a new set of players on the cross play servers. I'd really like to see PC only servers, in addition to the other types at that point.
@rishanji said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
All that the Devs want (as far as I know) is player interaction; be it good or bad, friendships and betrayals, PvE or PvP or both.
And yet, the game is designed in a way that rewards avoiding interaction. What they want is in stark contrast with what the game promotes. I won't go near another boat because I value my loot and don't know what they might be up to, and they can't get to me because I don't let them. This mindset is undermining the PvP aspect of the game, but this is the mindset the game promotes.
@xx-mirth-xx said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
@ilumineir you've moved the goalpost a bit here. You originally asked if it's fun and you shifted it to "is it meaningful within the context of the game".
It kinda developed naturally into that. And it's less of a question, and more of a statement, the game is seemingly designed in a way that PvP should makes sense in the core gameplay, but doesn't. I mean, it is a very core principle that the danger of enemy ships should be present, but that enemy ship has no real incentive to do what they do. It's not a question, it's more of a deduction that's waiting to be proved false, but it probably won't be.
That being said, the current state of PVP serves a very real purpose and that's to add an unknown factor to the game.
It has a purpose, but not really a reason for anyone to do it in regards to what the game's design considers it's own goal. And that is my problem here.
@ilumineir I think we're on the same page, we just want to turn to different chapters.
I'd rather they improve the rewards for engaging in PVP, not just winning PVP. Removing it from the game would ruin it, imo.
@ilumineir if the Devs forced interaction instead of lettings it happen naturally, people would complain to the high heavens (even more that is already on the forums) about it. It is the player's own choices and their mentality that make the game seem like what it is. Trust me, I would love to interact with other ships if I didn't already think they want to kill and steal without a moments hesitation (nothing wrong with that, people are just a bit too upfront with their intentions).
@rishanji I'm stating that 'A' is bad design. You're saying that 'B' wouldn't be good either. That still makes 'A' a bad design, and the alphabet is not restricted to A and B.
@xx-mirth-xx said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
I'd rather they improve the rewards for engaging in PVP, not just winning PVP. Removing it from the game would ruin it, imo.
I mean, me too. The game needs either an incentive for people to take more risks (not likely to happen), or the means for PvP to be a more rewarding and fulfilling activity.
@ilumineir What do you propose to fix it? More ships per server? Being rewarded or compensated for losing a fight?
@ilumineir said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
@daringclarky said in Is PvP really 'fun'?:
Just be happy that the game gives you the option
I've written this time way too many times, just read through it. In short, the game is centered around progression, and because progression is the main scope of the game via gold, reputation and unlocks, it's not worth it to do PvP. You're either carrying too much loot, in which case most players do the wise thing, and avoid combat, or stuck chasing another ship for too long before MAYBE fighting them, but probably not, or fight with ships that have next to no loot on them, hence, making the whole fight fruitless. The game that is designed around progression gives no incentive to do the PvP part of the PvPvE game. Even if you ignored the game's intended directive and did it just for funsies... 4 ships in 5 hours, and only one that shot back.. is that what you consider a good time?
All progression is, is a fancy costume, a fancy ship and a fancy title.
Just focus on having a good time. Dont let the grind burn you out.
Progression really doesnt matter at all. Having fun does.Ive attacked ships with a loot laden ship but only because im rich and i honestly dont care if i have loot or dont, i just play to get into scraps with other crews. Sometimes i dont even bother turning it in because it makes no difference to me at this point, Ive got all the cosmetics i care to own.
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