Why Revive is a Great Mechanic

@galactic-geek said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

Editor's Note: I am tired of rewriting similar responses to this 1 regarding the new revive mechanic; the following has been saved on my phone for future reference, and will either be copy-pasted in future threads regarding the subject, or reference back to this 1.

If you decide to comment in this thread, please be respectful towards other pirates and their responses, and try your best to view things from both sides of the divide - not just from your own. Also, please try to respond using logic - evidence, facts, and so on rather than respond based upon a singular personal experience or with your emotions.

Thank you for reading, and GG, from GG. 😉
-Galactic Geek

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The new revive mechanic added in Sea of Thieves' April 2020 update, Ships of Fortune, is a controversial one for many. They mistakenly believe that it's a hindrance to smaller crews, when they couldn't be anymore wrong. I'm here to explain why.

First, let me preface this by saying that smaller crews will always be at a disadvantage over larger crews, simply because, well, numbers. In other words, math. But that doesn't mean that smaller crews don't stand a chance - far from it, in fact. With proper planning and execution, skill can and will still win over numbers.

Prior to revive being added, when you died, you were sent to the Ferry. This was unavoidable. This meant that if you were a solo pirate taking on an entire crew, you were at a severe disadvantage in a straight up fight. 1v4 in a straight up fight is going to be hard no matter how you look at it.

This still remains true post-update - if downed pirates ultimately decide to go straight to the Ferry, except for faster respawn times than compared to pre-update, nothing really changes from pre-update gameplay. For example, if a solo pirate gets lucky (or used their skill to outmatch them), and defeats a pirate, the odds are still against them because it would then be 1v3.

However, post-update, if said solo pirate downs an enemy, that enemy's crew is now forced into a difficult decision: either let their crewmate die, in which case, see the above paragraph; or attempt to revive him. If they attempt the revive, it leaves them even more vulnerable, because now their crew is temporarily down 2 pirates. Sure revive is faster than respawning, as it only takes 4 seconds, but it's riskier because it effectively takes another pirate out of the fight. All of a sudden, that 1v3 from pre-update becomes a 1v2 post-update - much better odds.

Think about the things a pirate can't do while reviving:

1. Attack
2. Move (a lot)
3. Defend
4. Run away
5. Heal
6. Sail
7. Repair
   Etc.

Now think about what their solo enemy can do with those 4 seconds:

1. Attack the reviver
2. Attack the remaining crew
3. Heal
4. Run away
5. Damage the enemy ship
6. Distract the enemy
7. Drop anchor
8. Steal loot
   Etc.

Even if the larger crew gets a successful revive, the gains are minimal - the revived pirate is only at 25% health, and will die in a single shot or sword slash unless they take the time to heal, which again leaves them vulnerable and out of combat for a couple of more seconds

So, in summation, I would say that yes, 1v4 is still a tough fight - there's no doubt about that (and that will never change, sans some drastic redesign decisions). But I would argue that post-update, it's actually become harder for larger crews and easier for smaller crews. The larger crews are forced into an inevitable choice while options open up for the smaller crews based upon their choice. If the larger crew chooses to let them respawn, then essentially nothing changes from pre-update gameplay; it's still hard for the solo pirate. However, if they choose to revive post-update, then it becomes a little bit more manageable for the underdogs.

...and for the record, if you're going into a straight up brawl by yourself against 4 pirates, you're either arrogant beyond measure, or completely clueless - either way, you're likely to end up dead; the odds simply aren't in your favor. Instead, try outsmarting your foes using guerrilla ambush tactics, or strategic, surgical strikes - it'll take a lot of the worry out of being outnumbered.

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TL;DR: Revive is a good addition because it affords smaller crews more opportunities to even the odds a bit more, while simultaneously forcing larger crews into a difficult choice.

when I heard about revive I was miffed that they weren't going to do it right but they did and I like it

@mr-tickle5 What have you contributed to this discussion other than to attack or try and blame me for the situation? If you've read or watched the video I posted, you would know the situation. Revive is broken. Enough said.

The video and situation of is a perfect example for why revive is broken and should not be in this game. And I usually play on a galleon.

@realfickface said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

@mr-tickle5 What have you contributed to this discussion other than to attack or try and blame me for the situation? If you've read or watched the video I posted, you would know the situation. Revive is broken. Enough said.

sir I don't think so but you can have you're option

I have nothing to add but I like these threads because it has a lot of helpful tips on what to and what not to do in a combat situation. They're very helpful when given proper thought.

@galactic-geek said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

Editor's Note: I am tired of rewriting similar responses to this 1 regarding the new revive mechanic; the following has been saved on my phone for future reference, and will either be copy-pasted in future threads regarding the subject, or reference back to this 1.

If you decide to comment in this thread, please be respectful towards other pirates and their responses, and try your best to view things from both sides of the divide - not just from your own. Also, please try to respond using logic - evidence, facts, and so on rather than respond based upon a singular personal experience or with your emotions.

Thank you for reading, and GG, from GG. 😉
-Galactic Geek

---

The new revive mechanic added in Sea of Thieves' April 2020 update, Ships of Fortune, is a controversial one for many. They mistakenly believe that it's a hindrance to smaller crews, when they couldn't be anymore wrong. I'm here to explain why.

First, let me preface this by saying that smaller crews will always be at a disadvantage over larger crews, simply because, well, numbers. In other words, math. But that doesn't mean that smaller crews don't stand a chance - far from it, in fact. With proper planning and execution, skill can and will still win over numbers.

Prior to revive being added, when you died, you were sent to the Ferry. This was unavoidable. This meant that if you were a solo pirate taking on an entire crew, you were at a severe disadvantage in a straight up fight. 1v4 in a straight up fight is going to be hard no matter how you look at it.

This still remains true post-update - if downed pirates ultimately decide to go straight to the Ferry, except for faster respawn times than compared to pre-update, nothing really changes from pre-update gameplay. For example, if a solo pirate gets lucky (or used their skill to outmatch them), and defeats a pirate, the odds are still against them because it would then be 1v3.

However, post-update, if said solo pirate downs an enemy, that enemy's crew is now forced into a difficult decision: either let their crewmate die, in which case, see the above paragraph; or attempt to revive him. If they attempt the revive, it leaves them even more vulnerable, because now their crew is temporarily down 2 pirates. Sure revive is faster than respawning, as it only takes 4 seconds, but it's riskier because it effectively takes another pirate out of the fight. All of a sudden, that 1v3 from pre-update becomes a 1v2 post-update - much better odds.

Think about the things a pirate can't do while reviving:

1. Attack
2. Move (a lot)
3. Defend
4. Run away
5. Heal
6. Sail
7. Repair
   Etc.

Now think about what their solo enemy can do with those 4 seconds:

1. Attack the reviver
2. Attack the remaining crew
3. Heal
4. Run away
5. Damage the enemy ship
6. Distract the enemy
7. Drop anchor
8. Steal loot
   Etc.

Even if the larger crew gets a successful revive, the gains are minimal - the revived pirate is only at 25% health, and will die in a single shot or sword slash unless they take the time to heal, which again leaves them vulnerable and out of combat for a couple of more seconds

So, in summation, I would say that yes, 1v4 is still a tough fight - there's no doubt about that (and that will never change, sans some drastic redesign decisions). But I would argue that post-update, it's actually become harder for larger crews and easier for smaller crews. The larger crews are forced into an inevitable choice while options open up for the smaller crews based upon their choice. If the larger crew chooses to let them respawn, then essentially nothing changes from pre-update gameplay; it's still hard for the solo pirate. However, if they choose to revive post-update, then it becomes a little bit more manageable for the underdogs.

...and for the record, if you're going into a straight up brawl by yourself against 4 pirates, you're either arrogant beyond measure, or completely clueless - either way, you're likely to end up dead; the odds simply aren't in your favor. Instead, try outsmarting your foes using guerrilla ambush tactics, or strategic, surgical strikes - it'll take a lot of the worry out of being outnumbered.

---

TL;DR: Revive is a good addition because it affords smaller crews more opportunities to even the odds a bit more, while simultaneously forcing larger crews into a difficult choice.

Totally agree and ive even had a few scenarios where when a bigger crew revived i had a chance to wipe thrm out entirely with my blunderbuss.

@galactic-geek I still dislike the feature due to it still being broken since testing. It 80 % still makes me have to press the button twice to give up my soul to the ferry because when you immediately die you get the prompt to give up but if your pirate hits his knees before the circle is complete it stops and you have to repeat the process again and cost you more time if you aren't paying attention. It's still a broken and redundant feature in my opinion.

@galactic-geek said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

@jollyolsteamed said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

@galactic-geek said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

What if it took longer to revive larger crews? You know, kind of like how it takes longer to pull up the anchor or adjust sails with the larger ships. What if it takes longer for larger ships, but they could revive faster if more crew jumped in to help? Do you think that could work?

i think this would be a good idea changing up the speed and time it takes depending on crew size and how many is reviving it would balance it it out a bit to where it actually punishes crews for reviving

@galactic-geek This entire argument is specious. Looks good in theory, but... nope. Yes, solo players have and always will be at a disadvantage. This increases that disadvantage - especially when defending. In a 1v4 situation, a solo player can’t camp a body to make sure it stays down. A smart 4 man crew can have two occupy the solo player while the third raise the 4th - which doesn’t take long. Rinse. Repeat. While the raising player may be vulnerable, so is the solo player attempting to focus on the raiser. It can take the revived player seconds to reach full health again and you’re then dealing with the full crew - in seconds.

And, if you’re unfortunate enough to be boarded by two players as a solo, unless you kill them both, you will always be greeted by two players when you return from the ferry - meaning they will be able to cover all the spawn point on your ship. Before, if you took one down before you died, you had a chance of having to deal with only one aboard your ship when you returned.

It’s a stupid mechanic which would be fine in Arena, but doesn’t fit Adventure... also, lore-wise... why do pirates suddenly have this magical ability to raise the dead? The entire lore around the ferry has been turned in its head with pretty much no explanation... we suddenly got a magical ability... how?

It does not give smaller crews a advantage as its trying to make it out to be. Only a crew that does not communicate wil get themselves killed while trying to revive.

I always keep asking... What if you encounter a good/smart crew?
Sure fighting a good larger crew was already hard, but atleast before this patch, if you got some kills & then die yourself while my crew mate is smashing them with cannons, you were able to put them in a tricky situation faster then now.

it's making it sound like countering reviving is always easy to do. But it is so much harder now to outskill a good larger crew.

Examples

• Cannonballing someone in the face & sniping someone of the wheel in a ship battle has little too no meaning anymore, they can turn away and revive each other (did this few times yesterday to save my crew mate).
• Boarding another crew is more punishable now, because you need to kill them all, stay alive & also prevent crew mates from reviving to keep the upper hand, while staying alive yourself. And a smart crew will simply come all at once at the boarder to quickly dispose of him & then revive, while the other watches the ladders.
• If they board you with 2, and you as a solo slooper kill one, and the other kills you. he revives his team mate on YOUR ship making it harder to get them off (it even makes spawn camping much stronger now).
• If the larger crew deals with a boarder quickly while their ship is damaged, they can revive quickly, so they can save the ship faster (wich my crew done couple of times now to).
• If players die with food on them & they get revived, they keep the food & can immediately heal up (and if they eat cooked food their health will automaticly heal up from regen), it doesnt take long to heal up if you got food on you.

Trying to revive someone is not as critical as this post is trying to make to out to be.
Play it safe & communicate with your crew mates & you wil get the revive of. Reviving does not take that long, and your still alive crew mates can protect you while one goes for the revive, and healing up does not take long at all either if the dead player had food on him, or ate cooked food.

Just because one has to make a decision to go for the revive, does not equals to getting the advantage as a small crew, it is a advantage for all crew sizes.

Sure the revive is pretty nice for PvE purposes, but it is making PvPing more tricky now to outplay a bigger crew.

@galactic-geek yes sir I do. Like I had said during testing that i thought i was beating the prompt faster than the feature would allow but that's not the case. Once you die you have the option to give up as soon as you are falling to your knees but as soon as your knees hit the prompt refreshes itself.

@galactic-geek said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

Having the 4-man crew effectively split up is exactly what the solo pirate wants to have happen. Why? Because, in your scenario, it's still 1v2, like I said in my original post. Splitting them up makes it easier and buys the solo pirate time, just like with the larger crew trying to revive their mate.

What? Yes... for a few seconds, it becomes a 1v2 vs a 1v3, but then, within a few seconds, it's back to 1v4. Doesn't make it easier. That's just not true at all. And, how exactly are you "buying time" with two other pirates on you? You can still, for the most part, only kill one at a time, IIRC - and if you think 4 to 19 seconds is going to make a significant difference, you're deluding yourself.

The rest of most of the rest of this is the same sort of argument... not really worth addressing as it's all fallacious.

I mean, this, in particular was a doozy:

Yep. Still the case if you can kill 1 while they're separated.

How big do you think a sloop is? You think they wouldn't be able to revive their partner and get them to full health before you get back from the ferry? On what plane of existence does this math work?

I counted the time on the ferry. You have about a second for the Offer to be accepted, about 20 (maybe more) seconds on the ferry, and then however long the black screen takes. On a boarded sloop, that's plenty of time to revive, get back to full health, reload, and take position for a spawn camp. It's a spawn camper's wet dream.

Why is it fine in 1 but not the other? Aside from longer down time to get revived, they're essentially the same.

Because 1: it's got shorter sessions. 2: It's a competitive purely PvP game mode. 3: One can't even begin to argue that, as of this update, they are not "essentially the same." One could have made that argument - and I have - prior to this update, but no longer.

There's no magic to it, because you're dying - not dead. You're simply coaxing your friend back to the fight for 1 last ditch effort, hence the 25% health (think Boromir's last stand from Lord of the Rings). In this way, the lore is exactly the same as it was - it's just visually represented differently.

Ah, so, you are never killed until you go to the ferry. Okay... I guess.

@capt-soul-beard said in Why Revive is a Great Mechanic:

And wow suicidal kegging is the next best thing now, it's so fun when my buddy goes to suicide keg and kills everyone on their ship then I board and rez him!

THIS! Huge advantage!

Also: Any play with multiple pirates away from their boats becomes far more doable (read: easy, read: a little broken?) Sharks are no longer a problem on long swims. So many ways this gives more advantages to larger crews.

Time will tell, but from my early view, solos and small crew's lives just got harder.

@galactic-geek I feel more and more like you say things without really knowing what you’re on about. I have a Pirate character who doesn’t use a ship. Dealing with multiple sharks on the regular. So, I speak from experience in saying that you’re talking nonsense.

@galactic-geek Yes, and that truism can be said of virtually anything and is therefore pretty meaningless. However, you said it was “likely.” That’s the nonsense part. Yes, you can get unlucky or mess up, but don’t make it sound like it’s likely going to happen.

@viperishemu2992 a dit dans Why Revive is a Great Mechanic :

I can think of 5 better uses of bandwidth off the top of my head:
Retractable ladders
[...]
Boom, took me 18 seconds of brainstorming.

Well that's your opinion because my initial thought on this particular idea is: Oh no, this is definitely NOT a "better use of bandwidth".
And since when brainstorming is done alone ? lol
That's not brainstorming, spelling out your ideas and having other people responding to it (like what we're doing right now) is brainstorming.
Also, having ideas in 18 seconds doesn't make them better ;)

@galactic-geek I read the thread and despite all argumentation in favor or against the revive the undeniable fact is that the feature brought an advantage to crews and no advantage to solo players. Crews got revive, solo players got nothing.

If the game gives the possibility to solo play and wants to increase its player base (a number 1 need for SoT) it should be friendly and balanced. The advantage of already having +players is huge, we all play solo and crew and that is another undeniable fact. The game became less friendly for solo players and an easy fix for that is to make servers just for 1 or 2 players. Most BR games do that for an obvious reason.

Now, lets put that aside from the discussion if "Revive is a great mechanic or not when fighting in even grounds". My opinion about that is really simple, PVP combats in SoT should be faster and revive makes it longer.

The revive feature can be seen as a great feature for the PVE portion of the game. It makes it more dynamic and more friendly to new players.