There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.
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Over the last few days I have been trying to get my new friend into the game with the new update and nearly ever session we play we are getting rolled up on by Galleons/Brigantines and they will just spam kill you, steal all your supplies, and camp on you until you literally quit. Some of them are kind enough to sink you but even then its ridiculous. After 3 days of trying to play the game my friend literally gave up and issued a refund order. I am also seeing threads like this pop up on a daily basis now. There has got to be some kind of anti griefing system in the game.
IMO best solution to this would be the following. Add a "peace" flag to the game. While the peace flag is active you cannot damage other players boats and they cannot damage your boat, other players also cannot access your ships stocks and you cannot access theirs, and neither players can interact with the other persons boat.
I have tried to maintain the whole "yeah this is a pirate game it happens" mentality for so long but its to the point where the game is becoming unplayable for large swaths of the community and its driving away new players.
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@monger-of-war How exactly is a Galleon/Brigantine getting anywhere near your sloop if you want to avoid them and you know what you are doing? Sloop is quite literally the most OP ship in the game, even while solo. Scuttle exists when they spawn camp you, but I am quite surprised you are finding people good enough to spawn camp you. Basically this post sounds like its from someone who has literally no idea what they are doing and is like 90% of the playerbase. I singlehandedly take down Galleons and brigantines all the time so really if you have 2 people you should be able to run away from those 2 ships ridiculously easily. So please dont tell me that it is impossible for a sloop to take down a brig or galleon since that is literally 50% of my combat experiences (since sloops are quite common, lucky you is actually running into galleons and brigs). To summarize, git gud, I would explain but basically just run into the wind with sloop and go watch videos and you will be able to annihilate ships solo in no time if you are good at learning.
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@enticed-malice First off I understand how the game was designed. I am PL and have been since long ago and I have played this game since launch. Just because something was designed a certain way doesnt mean its the best way thats why we have design, testing, and fixes. Yes part of the game is the danger aspect but when a game is being ruined by a blatantly bad aspect its prudent to realize it and work on solutions for it. The fact is this games population is going down and fast. This expansion was supposed to bring old players back and new players in but all the new players are simply being griefed and that further escalates the problem.
Great you enjoy griefing others we get it but that doesnt mean we have to agree with you.
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@jofjjay False, both the Galleon/Brigantine are faster than a sloop at full speeed (the Brigantine extremely so) yeah you've got better turning options with a sloop. But after spending 3+ hrs trying to get a good haul being a single player trying to fend off 3+ enemy players is quite hard to do especially if you are a beginner, and having nothing to show after 3+ hrs of game play (unless you are spending 90% of your time continually going to and from a outpost after gathering one or two pieces of treasure) can be quite frustrating, not to mention if you get stopped by the Kraken and you're a new player with no idea how to defeat it.
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@mewtwoki Have you actually tried running straight upwind? Since every time I do it in sloop I outrun everything. And fending off 3 players really isn't that hard if you get good at it.
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@jofjjay Actually I have and I've watched a video that even shows (with math and in game footage) that in a straight line following the wind the Brigantine is the fastest ship. So as a single player being wrecked by 3+ people at the same time, I generally just scuttle my ship and say to myself "well there goes a few hrs I've just wasted trying to gather treasure" XD
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@mewtwoki Following the wind, mate you didn't understand what I just said then. I never said sloop could outrun brig following the wind, why? because it cant. And technically galleon is fastest when going straight downwind and brig the fastest when crosswind. I think I have seen that video too and it proves my point. Into the wind or upwind are going the exact opposite of the way the wind is blowing. (If the wind is going east you go directly west and put your sails into dummy position)
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@jofjjay I understand all of that but what your not getting is sure if you have 2 seasoned pirates on a sloop yeah you can wreck other ships and you can be very safe on a sloop.
The issue I am describing is with newer players. When im playing with my friends, aka new players, they have no idea how to play the game so when they go and start doing a riddle, fighting skeletons, etc i have to go with them or else they just die or wander aimlessly which is no fun at all and if i just say "hey sit in the crows next for the next 2 hours while i go get us treasure well thats not fun either" and in that time we are getting rolled up on. We have escaped several ships when we can see them coming but thats another issue as well. We have had ships chase us across the server for up to an hour before and all we had was maybe a few pieces of treasure but because of that chase we dont get anytime to actually play the game. Simply put this game is extremely unfriendly to newer and more casual gamers and thats killing its sales and playability.
Git gud is a lazy way of saying "i think your issue is just because your bad" but being bad isnt the issue here the issue is with new players and griefing. No matter how good you are or bad griefing shouldnt be tolerated. SoT is unique in the fact that griefing is freely allowed and thats been a huge killer of this games popularity if were being honest.
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@monger-of-war
Solution: 1) Sail on a brigantine or galleon yourselvesSolution: 2) Sail against the wind, sloops can't be caught against the wind
Solution: 3) Get the shroud breaker on your ship. Go into the red sea wait till they leave.
Also a Brigantine is by far the weakest ship due to how fast it sinks. 1 gunpowder and at least 2 people need to be on repairs (assuming it's in a fight) or having 1 guy repair will go bad fast.
The galleon is only stupid because of how slow it sinks and how many people are on it. Other than that the sloop can usually outmaneuver them easily and make the galleon play the sloops game
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@monger-of-war But your an experienced player, you can direct them in how to run into the wind. (or downwind on brig/galley) Also sinking you, spawncamping you, stealing supplies et cetera is not griefing.
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Considering your bio on your Xbox profile is the following...
WHEN YOU MESS WITH THE BEST DIE LIKE THE REST!
That is your capitilation by the way, as well as your name being Monger of War. Your request feels really out of place here. For a person supposedly who deals in the trade of war, the demand for a safe place, seems rather ironic doesn't it?
The fact is this games population is going down and fast.
This has been said since the start of the game, yet here it stands maintaining pretty much a steady population. More doomsayer mentality with no backing it up.
This expansion was supposed to bring old players back and new players in but all the new players are simply being griefed and that further escalates the problem.
According to who was this supposed to bring back players? No one made this claim, your setting up strawmen at this point. Easy to demolish arguments of fiction created by yourself.
Great you enjoy griefing others we get it but that doesnt mean we have to agree with you.
Oh look, a false dichotomy. This isn't a black and white issue, we disagree, that doesn't mean we are griefers. Plain and simple.
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@jofjjay Again your not actually reading my replies I even said running away from them is not the issue the issue is in order to play the game and especially with a new player is that you have to leave your ship entirely and in that time is when you get jumped for the most part, YES if you see them coming it gets easier to escape but another major issue there is with newer players you cant just expect them to magically know the game in and out so while I can direct him to an extent we still have the problem of
- new players arnt actually learning anything
- they are not having fun
- the games toxic playerbase is driving away any possible new playerbase
The TLDR of this entire topic can be summarized as this
"SoT is currently just a giant cesspool of trolls who enjoy screwing with each other, this circle is continuously getting smaller, so do we just let it keep going until the game dies or try to fix some of the games griefiness to bring in new playerbase for a richer game filled with more pirates and fun for all"
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@monger-of-war I wish I could experience these servers where you can barely do a voyage without getting attacked. And if the new players aren't learning then they aren't analyzing their fails and mistakes enough. If they are not having fun in the chase or the pvp part of the game and are here for just the PVE then they shouldn't of bought a 1) PVPVE game, and 2) especially one with thieves in the title.
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@jofjjay The thing is your looking at this as an all or nothing type of game. Many huge online games offer 2 seperate aspects of the game to be played and it works out great for them. WoW, RS, and GW just to name a few but the point is a game thats entirely pve that comes down to simple griefing wont last long and this game is steadily going downhill so we either need to address this now or accept the fact that within a few years this game will be gone. I greatly enjoy this game and dont want to see the latter happen so i am voicing my opinion on it now.
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@jofjjay My apologies I had not realized upwind meant to travel the opposite way it was blowing, I will try this next time thank you
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@monger-of-war I don't feel like explain why a PVE flag or other PVE servers are a bad idea right now so for a basic idea of why they are bad I would suggest looking at the other 100's of posts out there. I have no idea what any of those games are that you are talking about but I am guessing those are much more populous and different than Sea of Thieves. This game isn't for the PVE, its for the voyage and the fun that comes out of it. This game isn't PVE, it is PVPVE. This game isn't really going downhill except in player skill from what I have seen, if anything it seems to be doing better than ever for me.
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@aglasgowthing I tried to but hes 3 days in and when you have guys who can literally hit him every time with the sniper hes just getting snipe killed constantly in pvp. I do my best to help him but it really is a very different atmosphere than when I started playing. I just realized how unfriendly this game is to new player. I normally dont notice it because I roll around on a Gally with others who are good at the game and we usually win most our ship fights.
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@jofjjay Ive read a lot of posts and most the replies are very ignorant and self centered things like "well just cus your bad doesnt mean we should care or change the game"and thats just a strawman to avoid the real issue. The issue is whether you like it or not a fully forced PvP game doesnt do well in the market these days. If we want this game to thrive and grow we need to address this.
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...nearly ever session we play we are getting rolled up on by Galleons/Brigantines and they will just spam kill you, steal all your supplies, and camp on you until you literally quit.
I am also seeing threads like this pop up on a daily basis now.
And yet, yesterday, I was sailing on a sloop for about 4 hours, and never got attacked. What we do not get here are the stories from new players that had no such bad experiences in their early adventures on the Sea of Thieves. No one writes a thread saying, "I got in the game, did a GH voyage and an OOS voyage, and even found a Reaper's Chest, but never got attacked once!" But, such experiences are common.
What you DO see are just as many threads complaining that the seas are empty, and that you can sail all day and hardly ever see another player ship.
The truth is: Some days you will encounter other ships - some of whom will be troublesome - and some days, you will hardly see any. New players have bad experiences on their first 2 or 3 outings are just unlucky. They should persevere!
The best defense against "getting rolled up on by Galleons/Brigantines" is keep a proper lookout. Don't sail too close to other ships, and do not let them get too close to you, until you are prepared to do battle, if necessary.
Also: you do not have to "literally quit". As a PL, you should know better. It may be annoying; but if you are being spawn-killed by players that refuse to properly sink you or leave when they have all your supplies and loot, you can scuttle your ship.
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Let me try and address your points here
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4 hours of peaceful gameplay shouldnt be something you have to pray for and if you ask most players they will tell you your lucky to get 1 hour of peaceful gameplay let alone 4. Now again PvP is fine and its fine to have it but we need to utilize it in a constructive manner.
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Seas are empty - This doesnt take away from my point in the slightest though. If this is the case than rare could make servers go upto 9 ships rather than 6 but tbh if they did that it would make this even worse IMO.
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The truth is - NO game can exist on purely griefing and toxic players. The gaming industry has proven that time and time again and with less and less people playing this game nowadays we need to face facts and admit the forumula thus far hasnt been working out that great. This game at launch had some decent success but its seen a huge spike down in player base since then and it needs a course correction if it is to survive.
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you do not have to "literally quit"- I never said you have to I am saying that what is happening with new players. To start with everytime you spawn you have to spend time stocking your ship, then you spend time sailing around to try and play the game, in the process of that you are chased/killed endlessly without rhyme or reason. NONE of this is enticing to new players and gives them absolutely no reason to want to play and commit to the game. Like I said I am fine because I was here in the early days when alliances were a thing and you could actually learn the game without being griefed constantly but those days are gone and for new players the reality is "you should spend 50$ on this game to let others spam kill you or chase you for hours in an attempt to spam kill you". Shocker shocker a lot of them are not up for that and end up leaving rather than "git gud". This is called reality and we need to face up to it.
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@jofjjay said in There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.:
@monger-of-war This game isn't really going downhill except in player skill from what I have seen, if anything it seems to be doing better than ever for me.
I don't think it's going downhill in skill, at least not for those who have been playing for a long time learned the ins and outs of the game and it's changing meta.
I think it's more a temporary upswing in new players who haven't learned and don't understand what they're getting into. I don't see why they should be treated differently though. I had to learn how to be mindful to my surroundings, and also how out-sail ships or out fight them. They should have to as well. And there's no better way to learn that to be tested by other players, just as I was after I followed my favorite Streamer to this game.
Some will get frustrated and quit but others will show that they have backbone and will push themselves to get better, maybe watch some streamers so that they can see what good play looks like and that combat is deeper and full of secrets and maybe someday fend for themselves or even get payback.
Who cares if soft players who throw in the towel at the first sign of adversity quit playing? This is advertised as a Pirate game, so they knew what they were getting into and it turns out they don't like it they can always play something else.
So long as Rare doesn't cave to people who haven't put in the time or effort to get good enough to enjoy the game for what it is, there's always going to be us original core players to support it.
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@monger-of-war said in There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.:
@aglasgowthing I tried to but hes 3 days in and when you have guys who can literally hit him every time with the sniper hes just getting snipe killed constantly in pvp. I do my best to help him but it really is a very different atmosphere than when I started playing. I just realized how unfriendly this game is to new player. I normally dont notice it because I roll around on a Gally with others who are good at the game and we usually win most our ship fights.
Why don't you invite him with your gally group then? He will receive advises from 3 players and will have a much better chance of survival with your whole gang and a better overall experience. Why not help him reach the bar, instead of asking for the bar to be lowered when all he needs is a bit more experience and time on the sea?
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@bloodybil I dont know if youve noticed or not but the player base for this game can be rather ... well elitist especially on PC.
Play on xbox - get out of our crew
Play on PC with a controller - what are you dumb?
Newer player - What do you mean they killed you, you were supposed to be doing "X".We did have a few sessions with me and my friends with him and those went great but when you start playing with randoms on discord that all goes out the window.
Its interesting how you characterize this as "lowering the bar" see I would see it as "raising the standards for the game". This game has had historically low standards when it comes to its players behavior and sure we did learn to cope with it the hard way but does that mean it should always have to be that way? You may want to try thinking about this in the aspect of another new player hell assume they are not as good as you are and couple that with the games limited but highly toxic play environment then ask "do I think people would want to play this game a lot?"
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@seaofpc9214 The thing is its all good and fun that you say "who cares if the game pushes away new players" but the truth is if the game is pushing out new players while losing old players to slow and irrelevant content creep there is only one outcome honestly. You might want to consider that.
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@monger-of-war said in There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.:
@bloodybil I dont know if youve noticed or not but the player base for this game can be rather ... well elitist especially on PC.
Play on xbox - get out of our crew
Play on PC with a controller - what are you dumb?
Newer player - What do you mean they killed you, you were supposed to be doing "X".We did have a few sessions with me and my friends with him and those went great but when you start playing with randoms on discord that all goes out the window.
Its interesting how you characterize this as "lowering the bar" see I would see it as "raising the standards for the game". This game has had historically low standards when it comes to its players behavior and sure we did learn to cope with it the hard way but does that mean it should always have to be that way? You may want to try thinking about this in the aspect of another new player hell assume they are not as good as you are and couple that with the games limited but highly toxic play environment then ask "do I think people would want to play this game a lot?"
I don't know if you noticed but you are talking mostly strawmen and blanket statements. There are bad apples and great people on both platforms, but it's interesting how you insist on demonising PC players right off the bat.
All players are equal in terms of abilities, experience is the only thing that differentiate them. Adding crutches and asking for the game to be made risk-free and changed in it's core because people refuse to take the time to learn it, is indeed lowering the bar.
We were all new player once, and we all got sunk, camped, and killed much more than once. You know what happens? You learn how to be more careful and alert about other ships, you learn how to defend yourself, you learn how to sail and evade your pursuers, how to do drop offs and unload loot with people on your tail, you learn a new trick every time one is done to you. That doesn't happen if you hide in your corner under your invulnerability flag.
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@monger-of-war There are max 6 ships on a server (max 24 players). It would be absurd in a shared world with such a relatively small server population to have a PvE flag. This would certainly be beneficial to the loot farming alliance servers, but this isn’t a good idea. Ships will roll up on you if you let them. You can see them coming from a good distance away if you’re looking.
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@mewtwoki directly against the wind with sails to stupid (flat sails pointd straight forward) nothing can catch the sloop.
Brig is faster then any other ship with crosswind and galleon is fastest with wind straight from the back.
Sloops need no safe mode, there is a safe mode tutorial now (maiden voyage)
Just now i finished a session with a buddy of mine on a sloop, 4 hours 120k gold worth in loot, 600 doubloons worth in other stuff...
We got into fights, we did ashen fleets we did forts we did everything and only sold once, at the end. We where literally a pinata on the seas. He is not new to the game but new to winning pvp encounters. He still understands the nature of the game, loot is not yours untill you sell it. If you are incapable to defend your loot and have issues with losing it sell often, otherwise get better at knowing ship strengths.
I can outsail most people on most ship, how did i get to this point ? By investing time in learning how to do it, getting experience and testing it in battle scenarios, losing and learning from my mistakes.
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No sympathy for self inflicted wounds...
You wanna solo in a multiplayer game then deal with it!
Switch to a bigger ship with a bigger crew!
Quite honestly though a 2 player Sloop is the toughest and deadliest thing in the game I don’t understand how your having a hard time. They are nigh unsinkable!
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I see these posts and just makes me wonder if my friends and I are gods at this game. We are fending or fighting 2 v 4. Even we get in a real bind and its 3 vs 6 - 8. Guess what happens, we win or we get away. We have to be gods. Anyone that does this must be gods in this time of the game.
I think we are at the point this game needs to remove all PvP and all Weapons in general. Don't need anyone in servers and for get all skeletons. Cause its getting to hard out there.
Ok enough of that, but honestly this time of year maybe a bad time for new players and the PvE'ers. The seas for the most part have been rumbling with the new forts and so far I have seen everyone with loot and a lot of crews rolling heavy with this loot and attempting to get more and more. For me and my crews, this is a great time of looting. That being said, the seas were so boring before the latest update. So we are most likely in a time of more players around.
I see people out there, past few days have been nice for content and action, but not much has changed from what I can see as before. I think PvP is up a bit because there is just a lack of end game for most players that don't want to grind all day and want some combat.
But in general I typically have seen everyone avoiding each other and running at the slightest sight of a ship . I have been trying to give supplies and loot away and people just run off. Can't even give away any gifts cause no one wants to take a moment to grab them from me (even on a row boat with nothing on it but gifts) or even grab them when I leave them in a sever. Its pretty sad.
The days of a well balanced crew is few and far in-between. Either people are out for pure PvP or PvE. Both sides of the coin is bad for the game since both of these crews can't or refuse to play the game to its full potential.
We have a lot of of people on both sides trying to argue their points and rather have the game fit their wants instead of playing the game they bought.
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@monger-of-war said in There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.:
Let me try and address your points here
- 4 hours of peaceful gameplay shouldnt be something you have to pray for and if you ask most players they will tell you your lucky to get 1 hour of peaceful gameplay let alone 4. Now again PvP is fine and its fine to have it but we need to utilize it in a constructive manner.
So what you are speaking of is all reward with zero risk sessions? I mean not sure where you are going with this point in an Shared World game. Why do we always have to bring up the fact there is risk in this game. Some days you have zero problems and other days you do. That is the game. I mean we all know this.
I have had so many long sessions with no issues. I don't pray for it and rather get some more action and I just spend 3+ hours grinding out some voyages and that. Which is fine, but to complain when something happens that you don't like its a bit of a joke.
Ok, we do have an uptick of PvP the past few days. Going to happen, it will be dead soon enough and all the people that want to sail around with out risk will come soon enough. Its part of how the game works. Only reason why people are complaining about this right now is because they have been on easy street for the past few months with the lack of risk in this game.
- Seas are empty - This doesnt take away from my point in the slightest though. If this is the case than rare could make servers go upto 9 ships rather than 6 but tbh if they did that it would make this even worse IMO.
Seas have been pretty dead (for my crews at least) before the update. I mean there are some ships out there but every time we are on and get a minimum of 2 server merges that does say a lot. But as to above this has been a good time to do voyages with little risk.
- The truth is - NO game can exist on purely griefing and toxic players. The gaming industry has proven that time and time again and with less and less people playing this game nowadays we need to face facts and admit the forumula thus far hasnt been working out that great. This game at launch had some decent success but its seen a huge spike down in player base since then and it needs a course correction if it is to survive.
I don't even know how to take some of these points seriously at times. Not everything is grifting and for sure not everything is toxic. The gaming community and this one especially has murdered this terminology and it has lost its meaning. OF course you will run into some people on the seas that just love to be on the mic and berate people but overall the community has been pretty solid in this regard with one another.
As for the "formula" of the game, you say it hasn't been working out that great? Based on what? Some of the post on the forums? I guess if you focus on the minority of post that keep on trying to be the loudest you could be right. But yes, lets ignore the major of posts that don't agree.
That even being said, what is the solution? I guess we are back at removing the shared world aspect and just go straight PvE. Yeah, that type game will really last though that and will BOOM with new players that will be on years to come.
Ill agree there needs to be some QoL aspects that could help in certain areas. Like the Tall Tales and that but overall the heart of the game is risk/reward. There really isn't one with out the other.
- you do not have to "literally quit"- I never said you have to I am saying that what is happening with new players. To start with everytime you spawn you have to spend time stocking your ship, then you spend time sailing around to try and play the game, in the process of that you are chased/killed endlessly without rhyme or reason. NONE of this is enticing to new players and gives them absolutely no reason to want to play and commit to the game. Like I said I am fine because I was here in the early days when alliances were a thing and you could actually learn the game without being griefed constantly but those days are gone and for new players the reality is "you should spend 50$ on this game to let others spam kill you or chase you for hours in an attempt to spam kill you". Shocker shocker a lot of them are not up for that and end up leaving rather than "git gud". This is called reality and we need to face up to it.
Again I would really like to see the numbers on this. I have helped many players on servers (new and old) and even then some will take the time to play and others won't. This is a grind game and there is time that has to be taken and most newer players are quitting cause they either don't have the time it takes or don't want to take that time. We are really not paying attention to what it takes to play the game some days. You are not going out on a 15 - 30 min session and getting much done. Look at your commendations. It isn't 1 and done. That is most likely what is pushing these casuals away.
Most are getting this game on game pass and to them it is little skin off to try it. The casual are not looking to grind this game or even attempt to get better at it. Hence why we have the cry for PvE servers. They just want to sale around with nothing behind it. Which OK I get it but it isn't going to keep these newer casuals. They don't want to play the game at hand as it is. The grind, the risk and the reward.
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@monger-of-war said in There has got to be a safe mode enabled for sloops at this point, its getting out of hand.:
@enticed-malice First off I understand how the game was designed. I am PL and have been since long ago and I have played this game since launch. Just because something was designed a certain way doesnt mean its the best way thats why we have design, testing, and fixes. Yes part of the game is the danger aspect but when a game is being ruined by a blatantly bad aspect its prudent to realize it and work on solutions for it. The fact is this games population is going down and fast. This expansion was supposed to bring old players back and new players in but all the new players are simply being griefed and that further escalates the problem.
Great you enjoy griefing others we get it but that doesnt mean we have to agree with you.
I would argue that any increase hostile activity is a sign that the game is gaining players, not losing them. :P
It's a fantasy pirate game, Piracy is the whole point, that includes PvE as much as PvP... If you're getting attacked a lot, then deal with it, like a pirate, that's the entire point of the game... To be a pirate, to have and create pirate adventures for yourself and others by simply doing pirate things in a shared sandbox world. xD
If you, or any newbs for that matter, can't handle piracy in a pirate game, then perhaps this game isn't for you... I've paid for, and tried out Black Desert Online and found that it's definitely not a game for me, i don't go making suggestions that would transform the very genre of the game, i simply go play other games that suit me... It's my own fault i didn't do more research before spending money to play that game. :P
Also, what expansion are you talking about? A mere monthly update isn't exactly what i would call an expansion. It's way too small an update for that. ._.
Just because you are angry or inconvenienced by other players simply being pirates in a pirate game, doesn't mean they are griefing you, it means they are playing the game as intended. Get your ego under control, dude.
